If accutane and other toxins are expelled, if the body return to a good state, those "epigenetic" change will be no more, the body will readapt itself. It's just that the body can't deal with all things at the same times. Epigenetic is a really bad excuse, i'm convinced of that, at least saying that it's permanent. If it was permanent, my neurological symptoms will be still here, but they are gone.
And epigenetic about accutane is just a theory, i don't even think that it can cause modification. I think accutane directly block some gene expression in certain part of the body but it's limited and doesn't do any modification. It affect the gene expression system in itself, not the mechanism who make a real modification or not (my opinion). If he was doing change, our body within 2 years will be completely malformated like babys who born after accutane, all trans retinoic acid regulate too much genes, if it was doing modification, we will be simply dead.
Isotherapy is homeopathy but with the exact same molecule who caused the problems. You can't do it yourself it's too dangerous.. ask an homeopathic lab. There is 1 or 2 who can do it in europe, don't know for usa.
Again, epigenetics, strictly defined, is about heritable changes in gene expression. What is being described here is any change in gene expression that can be induced by outside influences. They are not the same. Again, epigenetic changes are long term changes that are potentially heritable, and, as I pointed out above, most epigenetic changes are not passed on to offspring, certainly not to the point that they have a detectable effect on evolution. The rest is gene regulation, which is often transient but, depending on the process, can continue long term for as long as the stimulus causing the change in regulation is present. As is frequently pointed out, the quickest way to get an organ to start to return to normal is to stop doing the bad things to it that were causing it dysfunction in the first place. As P.Z. Myers put it:
In part, the root of the problem here is that we’re falling into an artificial dichotomy, that there is the gene as an enumerable, distinct character that can be plucked out and mapped as a fixed sequence of bits in a computer database, and there are all these messy cellular processes that affect what the gene does in the cell, and we try too hard to categorize these as separate. It’s a lot like the nature-nurture controversy, where the real problem is that biology doesn’t fall into these simple conceptual pigeonholes and we strain too hard to distinguish the indistinguishable. Grok the whole, people! You are the product of genes and cellular and environmental interactions.
Do you realize what you just did!?
Consider reading the entire article for a fine counterpoint to the argument you are trying to make here.
The article you linked openly bashes the alternative medicine community's misuse of epigenetic discoveries for the purpose of scamming customers. The author uses about two-thirds of the post for that purpose:
He is also griping about how loosely the idea of environmental factors reversing epigenetic modifications is thrown around.
If you think I'm not very open-minded, check out this guy's writings.
In fact, you should totally email him and ask him to chime-in on this thread with his thoughts on homeopathic isotherapy! That would be a treat.
There actually does seem to be a misunderstanding between you and me concerning our definitions of epigenetics.
You are thinking of isotretinoin's active influence on gene regulation/transcription, intracellular and extracellular signalling, hormonal profiles, etc...
You are right in saying those processes should theoretically cease soon after the drug is stopped.
I am speaking of isotretinoin's influence on heritable epigenetic traits through gene methylation. These alterations in methylation can persist through multiple generations of cells as described here:
Imagine having to copy an entire book by hand without missing a comma. Our cells face a similar task every time they divide. They must duplicate both their DNA and a subtle pattern of punctuation-like modifications on the DNA known as methylation.................
Scientists refer to methylation, the addition of a methyl group to DNA, as an "epigenetic" modification because it adds a layer of information on top of the genetic sequence of the DNA itself. It marks genes for silencing, which means they do not manufacture proteins.
"The processes that copy the methylation pattern have to be faithful," says senior author Xiaodong Cheng, professor of biochemistry at Emory. "Otherwise, losing DNA methylation marks can have serious consequences, causing genes to become active at the wrong places and times."
These modifications often like to "stick" once they occur.
Why not actually read this instead of blowing it off?:
(This researcher, Anthony Csoka, also authored a paper concerning epigenetic mechanisms underlying persistent SSRI-related sexual dysfunction)
The term "Epigenetics" refers to DNA and chromatin modifications that persist from one cell division to the next, despite a lack of change in the underlying DNA sequence. The "epigenome" refers to the overall epigenetic state of a cell, and serves as an interface between the environment and the genome. The epigenome is dynamic and responsive to environmental signals not only during development, but also throughout life; and it is becoming increasingly apparent that chemicals can cause changes in gene expression that persist long after exposure has ceased. Here we present the hypothesis that commonly-used pharmaceutical drugs can cause such persistent epigenetic changes. Drugs may alter epigenetic homeostasis by direct or indirect mechanisms. Direct effects may be caused by drugs which affect chromatin architecture or DNA methylation. For example the antihypertensive hydralazine inhibits DNA methylation. An example of an indirectly acting drug is isotretinoin, which has transcription factor activity. A two-tier mechanism is postulated for indirect effects in which acute exposure to a drug influences signaling pathways that may lead to an alteration of transcription factor activity at gene promoters. This stimulation results in the altered expression of receptors, signaling molecules, and other proteins necessary to alter genetic regulatory circuits. With more chronic exposure, cells adapt by an unknown hypothetical process that results in more permanent modifications to DNA methylation and chromatin structure, leading to enduring alteration of a given epigenetic network. Therefore, any epigenetic side-effect caused by a drug may persist after the drug is discontinued. It is further proposed that some iatrogenic diseases such as tardive dyskinesia and drug-induced SLE are epigenetic in nature. If this hypothesis is correct the consequences for modern medicine are profound, since it would imply that our current understanding of pharmacology is an oversimplification. We propose that epigenetic side-effects of pharmaceuticals may be involved in the etiology of heart disease, cancer, neurological and cognitive disorders, obesity, diabetes, infertility, and sexual dysfunction. It is suggested that a systems biology approach employing microarray analyses of gene expression and methylation patterns can lead to a better understanding of long-term side-effects of drugs, and that in the future, epigenetic assays should be incorporated into the safety assessment of all pharmaceutical drugs. This new approach to pharmacology has been termed "phamacoepigenomics", the impact of which may be equal to or greater than that of pharmacogenetics. We provide here an overview of this potentially major new field in pharmacology and medicine.....................
Excerpt: " The following adverse effects have been reported to persist, even after discontinuing therapy, suggesting persistent (or perhaps slowly-reversing) gene expression changes and epigenetic effects: alopecia, arthralgias, ocular abnormalities, inflammatory bowel disease, keloids, osteopenia, hyperlipidemia, erectile dysfunction, and psychiatric disturbances. Isotretinoin is postulated to have complex effects on the brain and central nervous system."
This is a theory, and also the only rational explanation concerning the persitency of our side effects, although it leaves much to be discovered.
If I'm writing science fiction here by relating Accutane to more specific epigenetic changes than the author of the above article, then Accutane being "gummed up" in our cells after several years or more is pure fantasy.
TaneAbomination: Thank you very much for taking the time to post your recovery here!
Edited by Dubya_B, 16 November 2013 - 05:35 PM.