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Repairing the long-term damage from Accutane

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#3641 and1

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:21 AM

try magnesiumsulfate (epsom) or natriumsulfate to trigger bowel movement



#3642 Gladiatoro

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:58 AM

DO NOT TAKE RETINOL IF YOU HAVE ACCUTANE SIDE EFFECTS

 

The blind leading the blind over here.

 

I'm embarking on a juice fast to cleanse from the damage accutane has caused me.

 

Day 3 so far, the fast will consist of lots of raw fruits and vegetables juiced with the omega 8004 juicer, lots of water, psylium husk powder and bentonite clay taken together.....to see whether the psylium and bentonite bind to the accutane in the GI tract. I've not been the toilet so far so I've ordered cascara sagrada to help me along biggrin.png

Joseph has been taking Blue Ice which obviously has retinol and it works for him but I had a bad experience with fish oil so I'm reluctant to try it , I think what it comes down to is accutane affects each person in a different way there is no one glove fits all scenario.... in othere words what works for some may not work or be benefitial for others , one can only find out through trial and error I guess.


Edited by Gladiatoro, 21 September 2013 - 08:59 AM.


#3643 JTM88

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 02:24 PM

Sunnyhatesacne, 

 

A friend of my parents is a biochemist, he said that Vitamin C, Vitamin D, and Vitamin E all alters the chemical structure of Vitamin A.  The 4 Vitamins compete with each other.  Excessive Vitamin A also prevents the proper metabolism of Vitamin D.  Prob one of the reasons why large dosages over time causes bone damage. He suggested the best person to talk to is a nutritional scientist.  So I'm gonna do that next.   Here are the meds I'm currently taking.  Seek professional, medical advice for your situation though.  This forum is great, but not many of us here received any real medical training.  Truly hope everyone finds whatever works for them to recover from this mess.    

 

To "neutralize" Retinol A and its secondary metabolites.  Again, no hard evidence to back this up - but some medical research is indicating so.    

 

Vitamin C 1000

Vitamin B with CoQ10

Vitamin D 200mg per day

Vitamin E with all spectrums of tocotrienol

 

For the liver:

 

Liver Detox Pills

A Chinese Liver and Gallbladder Formula

Chinese mung beans (traditional detox food used for thousands of years in China)

 

For my Bones and Joints: 

 

Bone Strength

Strontium

hyaluronic acid (there are reports that too much of this causes cancer.  Not sure if this is true.  Need to ask my parents)

Glucosamine 

 

For my Intestine: 

 

Same Chinese Herbal Formula

Aloe Vera

May also include Slipper Elm and DGL to help with the membrane coating.  See how my liver is holding up first.  

Probiotics

saccharomyces boulardii (Good fungus needed for healthy GI)

 

For my Eyes: 

 

Super Zeaxinthin (Nutrition for the eyes)

 

 

Again, got all of this from the Tillotson Institute after I talked to Dr. Tillotson.  Hope this helps.  Also not sure if any of this is actually helping.  Symptoms are def there, but changing too slowly.  IBS like symptoms seem to be under control though.  

 

 

 

 

 

I concur with your thoughts JTM88... 

 

Can you share with us what type of vitamin supplement / liver detoxification you are taking

 

 

Both of my parents are licensed, active medical practitioners.  My mom is trained in Chinese Herbal Medicine

 

We have a few theories on what is happening (more on this later).  

 

I'm 28 y/o male.  Was naive and stupid enough to take Accutane for a year (low dose regimen).  All of my current symptoms emerged after I STOPPED taking Accutane.  While i was taking the drug, I never experienced any severe side effects.  Only had dry lips and dry mouth.  Never experienced joint pain or IBD like symptoms.  This gave me a false sense safety, and I continued to take a maintenance dose of 10 mg ever other day as an desperate attempt to finally have clear skin after all these years.   Let's face it, no one would ever take this drug unless they are absolutely fed up with acne and oily skin.  So, I don't blame myself. Whats done is done.  Let's fix the problems.  

 

Our theory is two things can happen metabolically with this drug: 

 

1). You get latent side effects.  Everything gets processed by your liver.  You take the drug.  Some of it goes to you face and immediately shuts down your oil glands.  The rest is then stored in your liver and fat cells.  This is your body's natural defense mechanism.  Body senses the intake of high dosages of Vitamin A.  To protect your organs, it stores it in the liver instead of letting it wreck havoc in the rest of your body.  However, eventually these chemicals are released, or they accumulate, and eventually causes symptoms.  Left untreated, these symptoms get worse as it weakens your systems even more.     

 

2). You experience side effects immediately or soon after, especially those on a high dose regimen.  The drug overwhelms your liver immediately and you start to experience side effects within weeks or months of taking the drug.  

 

In both cases, your genetics, dosage, and duration plays a factor.  This is why some people get symptoms and some don't.  If everyone that took accutane got sick, this drug wouldn't be on the market.   

 

Now the drug can either still be in your body - stored in your fat cells or liver for a long time.  OR the drug has already been eliminated, and the side effects you are experiencing are permanent damages it has done to your body.  In either case, I think the body has a natural ability to heal or at least repair some of the damages.  EVEN CHEMO PATIENTS THAT LOOSES ALL OF THEIR HAIR AND HAS THEIR INTESTINES BURNED BY RADIATION EVENTUALLY RECOVER.  We can't give up.

  

Possible Solutions: 

 

Our body is amazing at healing itself.  Your Liver and stomach membranes are considered fast dividing cells and replaces themselves every few days.  Your liver is the most resilient organ in the entire body.  Liver cells replaces itself every few days - This is a medical fact.  Unfortunately, Acctuane also targets these fast dividing cells.    

 

The only solution is to strengthen your body's natural healing and detox mechanisms.  There are no medication, holistic or western that is more powerful than this. There are no magic pills.  I'm currently taking 10, specific Vitamins and 1 Chinese herb formula to help strengthen my intestine and joints.  Remember, everything gets processed by your liver.  Too much Vitamins of the wrong kind does nothing but also places additional stress on your liver.  

 

3 months post accutane.  I can't tell if my symptoms are under control.  The symptoms are either progressing very slowly or my body is detoxing very slowly.  

 

I got all of my herbal medicine from the Tillotson Institute.  This is not some online vendor.  This is a brick and mortar medical office that has been in practice for 20 years.  Dr. Tillotson is a licensed professional and sits on the board of the Delaware Herbal and Acupuncture Committee.  They are the ones that review and determine who gets an herbal/acupuncture license in the state of Delaware.  Being in practice for 20 years, he has thousands of patients both in Delaware and throughout the country.  Visit his website below for more information.  As a sufferer of Accutane myself, I truly hope we can found solutions to fix ourselves.  We are too young to be messed up like this.  

 

*Moderator edit, URL removed - read the board rules*



Hi Guys... I just wanted to give you a quick update.. Yesterday i went to my doctor's office and he had my stool analysed..  The results were back and according to it i was having parasitic infection of  "Dietamoeba fragilis"  . He said sometimes it is normal to have these parasites in my stool, if there are no symptoms. 

 

I am so confused as what to do?



#3644 and1

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 03:29 PM

Sunnyhatesacne, 

 

A friend of my parents is a biochemist, he said that Vitamin C, Vitamin D, and Vitamin E all alters the chemical structure of Vitamin A.  The 4 Vitamins compete with each other.  Excessive Vitamin A also prevents the proper metabolism of Vitamin D.  Prob one of the reasons why large dosages over time causes bone damage. He suggested the best person to talk to is a nutritional scientist.  So I'm gonna do that next.   Here are the meds I'm currently taking.  Seek professional, medical advice for your situation though.  This forum is great, but not many of us here received any real medical training.  Truly hope everyone finds whatever works for them to recover from this mess.    

 

To "neutralize" Retinol A and its secondary metabolites.  Again, no hard evidence to back this up - but some medical research is indicating so.    

 

Vitamin C 1000

Vitamin B with CoQ10

Vitamin D 200mg per day

Vitamin E with all spectrums of tocotrienol

 

For the liver:

 

Liver Detox Pills

A Chinese Liver and Gallbladder Formula

Chinese mung beans (traditional detox food used for thousands of years in China)

 

For my Bones and Joints: 

 

Bone Strength

Strontium

hyaluronic acid (there are reports that too much of this causes cancer.  Not sure if this is true.  Need to ask my parents)

Glucosamine 

 

For my Intestine: 

 

Same Chinese Herbal Formula

Aloe Vera

May also include Slipper Elm and DGL to help with the membrane coating.  See how my liver is holding up first.  

Probiotics

saccharomyces boulardii (Good fungus needed for healthy GI)

 

For my Eyes: 

 

Super Zeaxinthin (Nutrition for the eyes)

 

 

Again, got all of this from the Tillotson Institute after I talked to Dr. Tillotson.  Hope this helps.  Also not sure if any of this is actually helping.  Symptoms are def there, but changing too slowly.  IBS like symptoms seem to be under control though.  

 

 

 

 

 

I concur with your thoughts JTM88... 

 

Can you share with us what type of vitamin supplement / liver detoxification you are taking

 

 

Both of my parents are licensed, active medical practitioners.  My mom is trained in Chinese Herbal Medicine

 

We have a few theories on what is happening (more on this later).  

 

I'm 28 y/o male.  Was naive and stupid enough to take Accutane for a year (low dose regimen).  All of my current symptoms emerged after I STOPPED taking Accutane.  While i was taking the drug, I never experienced any severe side effects.  Only had dry lips and dry mouth.  Never experienced joint pain or IBD like symptoms.  This gave me a false sense safety, and I continued to take a maintenance dose of 10 mg ever other day as an desperate attempt to finally have clear skin after all these years.   Let's face it, no one would ever take this drug unless they are absolutely fed up with acne and oily skin.  So, I don't blame myself. Whats done is done.  Let's fix the problems.  

 

Our theory is two things can happen metabolically with this drug: 

 

1). You get latent side effects.  Everything gets processed by your liver.  You take the drug.  Some of it goes to you face and immediately shuts down your oil glands.  The rest is then stored in your liver and fat cells.  This is your body's natural defense mechanism.  Body senses the intake of high dosages of Vitamin A.  To protect your organs, it stores it in the liver instead of letting it wreck havoc in the rest of your body.  However, eventually these chemicals are released, or they accumulate, and eventually causes symptoms.  Left untreated, these symptoms get worse as it weakens your systems even more.     

 

2). You experience side effects immediately or soon after, especially those on a high dose regimen.  The drug overwhelms your liver immediately and you start to experience side effects within weeks or months of taking the drug.  

 

In both cases, your genetics, dosage, and duration plays a factor.  This is why some people get symptoms and some don't.  If everyone that took accutane got sick, this drug wouldn't be on the market.   

 

Now the drug can either still be in your body - stored in your fat cells or liver for a long time.  OR the drug has already been eliminated, and the side effects you are experiencing are permanent damages it has done to your body.  In either case, I think the body has a natural ability to heal or at least repair some of the damages.  EVEN CHEMO PATIENTS THAT LOOSES ALL OF THEIR HAIR AND HAS THEIR INTESTINES BURNED BY RADIATION EVENTUALLY RECOVER.  We can't give up.

  

Possible Solutions: 

 

Our body is amazing at healing itself.  Your Liver and stomach membranes are considered fast dividing cells and replaces themselves every few days.  Your liver is the most resilient organ in the entire body.  Liver cells replaces itself every few days - This is a medical fact.  Unfortunately, Acctuane also targets these fast dividing cells.    

 

The only solution is to strengthen your body's natural healing and detox mechanisms.  There are no medication, holistic or western that is more powerful than this. There are no magic pills.  I'm currently taking 10, specific Vitamins and 1 Chinese herb formula to help strengthen my intestine and joints.  Remember, everything gets processed by your liver.  Too much Vitamins of the wrong kind does nothing but also places additional stress on your liver.  

 

3 months post accutane.  I can't tell if my symptoms are under control.  The symptoms are either progressing very slowly or my body is detoxing very slowly.  

 

I got all of my herbal medicine from the Tillotson Institute.  This is not some online vendor.  This is a brick and mortar medical office that has been in practice for 20 years.  Dr. Tillotson is a licensed professional and sits on the board of the Delaware Herbal and Acupuncture Committee.  They are the ones that review and determine who gets an herbal/acupuncture license in the state of Delaware.  Being in practice for 20 years, he has thousands of patients both in Delaware and throughout the country.  Visit his website below for more information.  As a sufferer of Accutane myself, I truly hope we can found solutions to fix ourselves.  We are too young to be messed up like this.  

 

*Moderator edit, URL removed - read the board rules*



Hi Guys... I just wanted to give you a quick update.. Yesterday i went to my doctor's office and he had my stool analysed..  The results were back and according to it i was having parasitic infection of  "Dietamoeba fragilis"  . He said sometimes it is normal to have these parasites in my stool, if there are no symptoms. 

 

I am so confused as what to do?

 

In my perception supplements work, but you only see fairly quick results if you also make the required changes in your diet, these changes leverage the effect of the supps.

 

If you can afford a nutritionist that is good. Ideally you would get your DNA decoded and analysed as well as all your organs checked and then have an appropriate protocol build for you. Would cost a whole lot of money though...

 

Looks like a good protocol, pretty much like the protocol given for almost any disease by an MD with an alternative approach. What is missing are more supps that help the body produce glutathion, like selenium, zink, NAC, ALA, Silymarin etc.

 

What kind of probiotic do you take, what kind of b complex?


Edited by Undergroundwellness, 21 September 2013 - 03:34 PM.


#3645 Chico Esposito

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:10 PM

JTM88 and sunnyhatesacne thank you for your fantastic posts, and welcome too you both. Hypervitaminosis A is the cause, the excess fat soluble vitamin A is in the fat, the question is how do we get it out of the body?



#3646 and1

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 03:27 AM

JTM88 and sunnyhatesacne thank you for your fantastic posts, and welcome too you both. Hypervitaminosis A is the cause, the excess fat soluble vitamin A is in the fat, the question is how do we get it out of the body?

 

It should not be so hard to get it out of the body you do it the same way you rid your body of excess minerals or heavy metals I'd suppose. For instance I recently found out that I have quite high levels of nickel in my body. I will rid my body of excess nickel by supplementing zinc and l-methionine and using a chelating agent once in a while as well as sauna. Supplementing the antagonists probably helps. Infra red saune probably also helps, because Vit A is fat soluble, IFR sauna has you sweat out more "fats" than regular sauna. There is a lot of research on IFR saunas available, mainly from Japan.


Edited by Undergroundwellness, 22 September 2013 - 03:28 AM.


#3647 Chico Esposito

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 05:44 AM

Day 4 and i woke up coughing up the most phlegm i've ever seen in my life, my tongue is thick white, it looks like a geography map, this is either a sign of detox or an infection, i hope the former. Bentonite clay is constipating, need cascara sagrada to arrive to get my bowels moving. I had 3 quarts of watermelon, spring greens, kale and lime juice yesterday, very nice.



#3648 and1

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 07:10 AM

Day 4 and i woke up coughing up the most phlegm i've ever seen in my life, my tongue is thick white, it looks like a geography map, this is either a sign of detox or an infection, i hope the former. Bentonite clay is constipating, need cascara sagrada to arrive to get my bowels moving. I had 3 quarts of watermelon, spring greens, kale and lime juice yesterday, very nice.

 

let the bentonite soak in water before you take it. I let it soak for at least half an hour, usually I let it soak over night and then mix it with PH to make a P&B shake which I down right away. White tongue is probably detox, at least this is a detox symptom I get from for instance liv52 or lemon juice, but it gets better over time.


Edited by Undergroundwellness, 22 September 2013 - 07:11 AM.


#3649 Chico Esposito

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 09:09 AM

Day 4 and i woke up coughing up the most phlegm i've ever seen in my life, my tongue is thick white, it looks like a geography map, this is either a sign of detox or an infection, i hope the former. Bentonite clay is constipating, need cascara sagrada to arrive to get my bowels moving. I had 3 quarts of watermelon, spring greens, kale and lime juice yesterday, very nice.

 

let the bentonite soak in water before you take it. I let it soak for at least half an hour, usually I let it soak over night and then mix it with PH to make a P&B shake which I down right away. White tongue is probably detox, at least this is a detox symptom I get from for instance liv52 or lemon juice, but it gets better over time.

 

I think your right about the white tongue being detox, i use yerba prima bentonite clay, which is already hydrated with water so that saves a bit of time.



#3650 Chico Esposito

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 06:18 PM

Day 5 the sinuses are still the same, constantly sneezing and have had a runny nose all day. 2.5 quarts of juice today, pineapple, kale ginger juice and  

apple, spring green ginger and lime juice, again it was very nice. 1 P & B shake, lots of water.  



#3651 Gladiatoro

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 07:41 PM

Day 5 the sinuses are still the same, constantly sneezing and have had a runny nose all day. 2.5 quarts of juice today, pineapple, kale ginger juice and  

apple, spring green ginger and lime juice, again it was very nice. 1 P & B shake, lots of water.  

Chico perhaps throw in some garlic tea into the mix that's what I do if I'm under the weather , crush some garlic bulbs this is important to release the healing compounds ( allicin etc. ) then steam some water up and mix the brew let sit for a few minutes and enjoy . I found this is much better than eating raw garlic as it is quite harsh . The hot water dilutes the solution to make it palatable , works great.


Edited by Gladiatoro, 23 September 2013 - 07:42 PM.


#3652 and1

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 01:48 AM

all of u with IBS symptoms check out FODMAP:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FODMAP



#3653 Gladiatoro

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 08:02 AM

For IBS and even Crohns disease etc... amazing product called IONYTE.

http://fredkaufman.c...alComplexes.pdf


Edited by Gladiatoro, 24 September 2013 - 08:03 AM.


#3654 JTM88

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 05:58 PM

Chico Esposito, 

 

That's the million dollar question right.  How do we get rid of Accutane and its secondary metabolites.  No one knows for sure.  Only things we can do are: 

 

1). Healthy diet.  Seek out healthy foods that are proven to have detox properties.  Again, I would seek out a good nutritional scientist  and get professional advice

2). Take the Vitamins I listed above or whatever else works for you

3). Make sure you get enough sleep.  This is when your body repairs.  Your liver filters your blood throughout the day.  But between 1-3am, it repairs itself and detoxes the most.

 

In terms of repairs, I think the priority should first be your Liver and Intestines.  If you don't have a healthy GI tract, you wont properly absorb the food and vitamins needed to fight Accutane.  Your joints and everything else weakens even more since they are not getting enough nutrients.  Also, if you liver is healthy, it should be able to slowly rid of these fat soluble toxins.  So without a good functioning liver and GI tract, none of our other problems will get better. 

 

Next should be your joints.  Once the poison is out, your joint fluids will come back.  But, the key is to prevent cartilage damage in the meantime.  Once damaged, they wont grow back even when the effects of accutane is gone.  

 

Question:  Does exercise and sweating help at all???  I recently tried two days of intense aerobic exercise, full body sweat and all.  Within a few hours after, I noticed increased cracking and pain in my wrists even though I didnt exercise them - I ran on the treadmill.  This is pretty clear evidence to me that the poison is still stored in my fat cells.  The exercise shook them loose and circulated them to my wrists and other body parts.  My question is can sweating eliminate fat soluble toxins or does it simply shake them loose and then redeposit again? 

 

 

 

 

JTM88 and sunnyhatesacne thank you for your fantastic posts, and welcome too you both. Hypervitaminosis A is the cause, the excess fat soluble vitamin A is in the fat, the question is how do we get it out of the body?



#3655 Gladiatoro

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 06:22 PM

http://www.naturalne...ural_cures.html



#3656 sunnyhatesacne

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 01:46 PM

JTM88 and sunnyhatesacne thank you for your fantastic posts, and welcome too you both. Hypervitaminosis A is the cause, the excess fat soluble vitamin A is in the fat, the question is how do we get it out of the body?

 

Thanks JTM88 for your reply and Chico for your encouragement...

 

Let me give u a quick update of what i have been trying to do first by trying telling my symptoms for the accutane:

- Really have a bad headache which persists on and off for a while.. I have been physiotherapist and they can relieve it by pressing some nerves on my neck.. This headache is relived for a while and then comes back again to haunt me..

 

I have tried the following procedure for the last 7 days and wanted to give a quick update. The procedure is called " Ayurveda Panchkarma".  The Panchkarma procedure means to cleanse the toxins from the body. According to it you have to consume the Ghee or Sesame oil for 7 continuous day in the morning. By consuming the Ghee in the morning you are basically introducing the fat into your body. This fat will dissolve with the other fat in your body and all pull the fat from your cells which are retinoid. Once this fat is pulled you basically need to cleanse this fat with a laxative like prune juice or some herbs like Triphalla..  This is a very specialized procedure and requires the Ayurveda teacher to administer this whole process..

 

I have tried this procedure for complete 7 days with whatever knowledge that i can find from the internet...

 

Summary of results :

1. My Headache was not that bad when i was consuming Ghee. Actually i found that the headache shifted from my head to my lower back.. Whenever i had headaches i would have no pain in the back and vice -versa.. So, the accutane is actually moving from my head to the stomach..  

2. My stomach was having lot of pain when consuming Ghee.. Also, when i went to the washroom i was having lot of pain.. This confirms that accutane was definately going to my stomach.

3. I lost approximately 2 kgs weight in last 7 days.

 

I had stopped this Panchkarma procedure as I really got scared that may be i was making my body too sick by using only limited knowledge of what ever i could find from internet.

 

I am trying to save some money and thinking of going to an Ayurvedic Doctor who can help with the cleansing but i definitely feel that accutane can be cleansed off the body by the help of Panchkarma..



#3657 sunnyhatesacne

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 02:52 PM

One thing i forgot to tell that when I did the Panchkarma for 7 days.. I also got 2 acnes on my face...  It's ironical that i took the accutane for acne and was able to get rid of all acne problems with it (expect i got bunch of more serious health issues).. I guess i don't care for acne as getting my health back is my only priority now...

 

I know Human body is really incredible and given right time it will bounce back for sure... 



#3658 sunnyhatesacne

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 01:54 PM

Digestion 101 on Fat and it's effect on Liver / Accutane

 

Digestion 101:

The fat digestion starts when we start consuming the food in the mouth.. The Lipase enzyme starts working on the fatty food in our mouth.. The fatty food is hydrophobic so it doesn't get absorbed in the stomach.. When the liver senses the fatty food it triggers the secretion of bile acid which is released from the gall bladder.  The bile acid emulsifies the fatty acid (triglycerides) and then it moves to the small intestine .  Small intestine has large no of villi which help to break the emulsified fat which go to the blood stream and is absorbed by cells.. The emulsified fatty acid is converted back into the bile acid and is restored into the gallbladder. This process is called Enterohepatic circulation.

 

http://en.wikipedia....tic_circulation

 

Accutane:

Accutane in reality is nothing but fat that we are consuming..  So, what happens is that when we consume lot of Vitamin A.. It is absorbed and stored in to our liver.. 

- Excessive vitamin A in liver --> Bile acid have Vitamin A --> IBS

- Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Excessive Vitamin A in cells --> Dry skin

- Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Excessive Vitamin in A in hair --> loss of hair

- Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Less Vitamin D as they compete ---> Bone loss as calcium absorption depends on Vitamin D, Muscle pain

 -Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Less Vitamin E as they compete ---> Less oxidation and muscle pain.

 

The problem is that since our body has a very good Enterohepatic circulation . The fat is re-circulated in our body very well and we can't really help with it...

 

Solution I think will work:

 

-- Consuming a balanced fat ( Coconut oil/ Seasame oil/ Oliver oil/ Ghee) like we did for Acccutane..  It should be consumed early morning as liver is most active in early morning.

 

-- Consuming the foods that increase the bile acid production 

       http://www.livestron...ease-bile-flow/

 

-- Consuming the foods that help to break the Enterohepatic Circulation by binding the fat into the stool.  

      http://en.wikipedia....cid_sequestrant

      The natural foods that are rich in binding the fat are natural fibres like psyllium husk, prune juice...

 

Disclaimer : Remember all these things addition to your diet will initially load the liver so we need to take easy on our liver during this time.. Like the same precaution to follow what we followed when we were on Accutane like no drinking alchoal, rise of cholesterol, higher lipid profile tests as liver is working really hard.

 

Let me know what do u think about it? 


Edited by sunnyhatesacne, 26 September 2013 - 02:02 PM.


#3659 Gladiatoro

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 04:04 PM

Digestion 101 on Fat and it's effect on Liver / Accutane

 

Digestion 101:

The fat digestion starts when we start consuming the food in the mouth.. The Lipase enzyme starts working on the fatty food in our mouth.. The fatty food is hydrophobic so it doesn't get absorbed in the stomach.. When the liver senses the fatty food it triggers the secretion of bile acid which is released from the gall bladder.  The bile acid emulsifies the fatty acid (triglycerides) and then it moves to the small intestine .  Small intestine has large no of villi which help to break the emulsified fat which go to the blood stream and is absorbed by cells.. The emulsified fatty acid is converted back into the bile acid and is restored into the gallbladder. This process is called Enterohepatic circulation.

 

http://en.wikipedia....tic_circulation

 

Accutane:

Accutane in reality is nothing but fat that we are consuming..  So, what happens is that when we consume lot of Vitamin A.. It is absorbed and stored in to our liver.. 

- Excessive vitamin A in liver --> Bile acid have Vitamin A --> IBS

- Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Excessive Vitamin A in cells --> Dry skin

- Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Excessive Vitamin in A in hair --> loss of hair

- Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Less Vitamin D as they compete ---> Bone loss as calcium absorption depends on Vitamin D, Muscle pain

 -Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Less Vitamin E as they compete ---> Less oxidation and muscle pain.

 

The problem is that since our body has a very good Enterohepatic circulation . The fat is re-circulated in our body very well and we can't really help with it...

 

Solution I think will work:

 

-- Consuming a balanced fat ( Coconut oil/ Seasame oil/ Oliver oil/ Ghee) like we did for Acccutane..  It should be consumed early morning as liver is most active in early morning.

 

-- Consuming the foods that increase the bile acid production 

       http://www.livestron...ease-bile-flow/

 

-- Consuming the foods that help to break the Enterohepatic Circulation by binding the fat into the stool.  

      http://en.wikipedia....cid_sequestrant

      The natural foods that are rich in binding the fat are natural fibres like psyllium husk, prune juice...

 

Disclaimer : Remember all these things addition to your diet will initially load the liver so we need to take easy on our liver during this time.. Like the same precaution to follow what we followed when we were on Accutane like no drinking alchoal, rise of cholesterol, higher lipid profile tests as liver is working really hard.

 

Let me know what do u think about it? 

That all sounds great only problem is that  ACCUTANE ISN'T VITAMIN A , it's a  SYNTHETIC DRUG and acts totally different than a natural form of vit A ,

even  ROCHE  states we don't know the mechanism behind isotretinoin , but as I have said before I bet they do....

 

Accutane is not vitamin A. The body handles it differently from natural vitamin A (see Figure 4) and there are a number of lines of evidence showing that it acts as an anti-vitamin A compound that can aggravate vitamin A deficiency. In newborn mice treated with dexamethasone, a drug that induces emphysema-like changes to lung tissue, natural vitamin A helps treat the disorder while the active ingredient of Accutane has no effect and may even make it worse.30 Accutane caused night blindness, a traditional sign of vitamin A deficiency, in a child with cystic fibrosis, whereas vitamin A supplementation resolved the night blindness.31 In rats, the active ingredient of this drug accumulates in the eyes and interferes with vitamin A recycling; rats taking it at high doses took fifty times longer to recover from exposure to intense light than rats that did not take the drug at all.32

A physician published a letter earlier this year reporting that two patients developed depression on Accutane; when the physician took them off the drug and supplemented them with 10-12,000 IU of vitamin A for seven to ten days, the depression resolved and they were able to go back on the drug without it recurring.33 The totality of the evidence strongly suggests that vitamin A deficiency contributes to depression and that Accutane is associated with this mental illness because it interferes with vitamin A metabolism.

Ironically, in order to understand the connection of vitamin D with mental health, we must examine the next criticism levied against vitamin A.

Vitamin D and Eskimo Hysteria

Recent reviews reference a 1985 paper arguing that the high intake of vitamin A among the Arctic Inuit was responsible for a phenomenon of hysteria that they called pibloktoq.34 This disorder involves several days of irritability or withdrawal, a sudden excitation wherein the victim flees the camp and engages in irrational and dangerous behavior, convulsive seizures, a twelve-hour period of coma or stuporous sleep, and a return to normal. The author offers the following lines of evidence supporting a tie to vitamin A toxicity: the Inuit consider polar bear liver, which is the richest source of vitamin A, to be toxic; explorers who eat polar bear liver out of necessity experience drowsiness, irritability, headaches, and nausea within hours of consuming it; and case reports of vitamin A toxicity involve irritability, drowsiness, double vision and anorexia.

Even within this paper the author mentions numerous facts that make this hypothesis problematic. The specific symptoms of pibloktoq are limited to the Arctic and Antarctic and tend to occur in the late winter and early spring. There is no compelling explanation for why vitamin A toxicity would fall within these geographical and seasonal restrictions. The Inuit consider polar bear liver safe as long as the membrane is removed and consider seal liver, which contains half as much vitamin A, safe to eat in unlimited quantities. If vitamin A were the toxic component of polar bear liver, the cultural prohibition against eating the membrane would therefore be useless. Finally, vitamin A toxicity generally accompanies chronically high intakes over time, usually of chemically altered supplemental forms, whereas the hysterical episodes found among the Inuit are acute and sporadic.

In 1972, another author offered a much better hypothesis tying the episodes to hypocalcemic tetany, a disorder of involuntary muscle contractions accompanying severe deficiencies of calcium and vitamin D.35 The muscle contractions occur because the peripheral nerves cannot regulate their impulses in the absence of calcium. The disorder is often accompanied by “emotional and cognitive disorganization” and convulsive seizures, probably resulting from the absence of calcium in the central nervous system. Like pibloktoq, episodes are acute and sporadic.

Populations that inhabit areas of the Arctic where fishing is limited or the weather is unsuitable for drying fish—the primary source of vitamin D and calcium in the Inuit diet—have high rates of tetany in infants and muscle cramps, a related symptom, in adults. The bone disease rickets, by contrast, is extremely rare, suggesting that in the physically demanding environment of the Arctic, the Inuit have adapted by giving skeletal development priority over the nervous system. The Inuit have inherited numerous cultural adaptations centered on providing sufficient calcium and vitamin D to the members of their groups, especially to pregnant and lactating women, reinforcing the concept that vitamin D and calcium are periodically limiting factors for good health in these populations.

If we are to investigate the mechanism by which vitamin D may be involved in this illness, we should look first of all to its primary function—maintaining calcium status. One compelling explanation for how vitamin D may prevent the convulsive seizures associated with hypocalcemic tetany and pibloktoq is that it supplies the calcium necessary for the production of endocannabinoids. The marijuana derivative hashish has been used since at least the fifteenth century to treat epilepsy. More recent research has shown that the endocannabinoids named after this drug are powerful inhibitors of glutamate toxicity and many other seizure-promoting excitotoxins. Boosting their levels in the brain helps prevent the experimental induction of seizures, while depleting or antagonizing them lowers the amount of drugs necessary to induce seizures.36

The production of endocannabinoids from arachidonic acid is critically dependent on the supply of calcium since it is the influx of this mineral into the cell that turns on the enzymes responsible for this conversion.17 At a minimum, vitamin D is required to supply sufficient calcium to the brain in order for this influx to take place. Since some cells use vitamin D as a signal to open calcium channels and allow a rapid influx of calcium,19 it is possible that brain cells require vitamin D for endocannabinoid production in this way as well.



#3660 JTM88

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 05:53 PM

Lose of Night Vision is mostly likely due to excessive drying of the hyaluronic acid in your eyes.  

 

Highly unlikely Accutane causes Vitamin A deficiency.  All evidence from doctors, biochemists, indicate that Accutane is very similar to Vitamin A.  Also, most of us eat lots of vegetables as we are trying to fix our bodies.  So shoudnt have Vitamin A deficiency.   

 

 

Digestion 101 on Fat and it's effect on Liver / Accutane

 

Digestion 101:

The fat digestion starts when we start consuming the food in the mouth.. The Lipase enzyme starts working on the fatty food in our mouth.. The fatty food is hydrophobic so it doesn't get absorbed in the stomach.. When the liver senses the fatty food it triggers the secretion of bile acid which is released from the gall bladder.  The bile acid emulsifies the fatty acid (triglycerides) and then it moves to the small intestine .  Small intestine has large no of villi which help to break the emulsified fat which go to the blood stream and is absorbed by cells.. The emulsified fatty acid is converted back into the bile acid and is restored into the gallbladder. This process is called Enterohepatic circulation.

 

http://en.wikipedia....tic_circulation

 

Accutane:

Accutane in reality is nothing but fat that we are consuming..  So, what happens is that when we consume lot of Vitamin A.. It is absorbed and stored in to our liver.. 

- Excessive vitamin A in liver --> Bile acid have Vitamin A --> IBS

- Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Excessive Vitamin A in cells --> Dry skin

- Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Excessive Vitamin in A in hair --> loss of hair

- Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Less Vitamin D as they compete ---> Bone loss as calcium absorption depends on Vitamin D, Muscle pain

 -Excessive Vitamin A in liver --> Less Vitamin E as they compete ---> Less oxidation and muscle pain.

 

The problem is that since our body has a very good Enterohepatic circulation . The fat is re-circulated in our body very well and we can't really help with it...

 

Solution I think will work:

 

-- Consuming a balanced fat ( Coconut oil/ Seasame oil/ Oliver oil/ Ghee) like we did for Acccutane..  It should be consumed early morning as liver is most active in early morning.

 

-- Consuming the foods that increase the bile acid production 

       http://www.livestron...ease-bile-flow/

 

-- Consuming the foods that help to break the Enterohepatic Circulation by binding the fat into the stool.  

      http://en.wikipedia....cid_sequestrant

      The natural foods that are rich in binding the fat are natural fibres like psyllium husk, prune juice...

 

Disclaimer : Remember all these things addition to your diet will initially load the liver so we need to take easy on our liver during this time.. Like the same precaution to follow what we followed when we were on Accutane like no drinking alchoal, rise of cholesterol, higher lipid profile tests as liver is working really hard.

 

Let me know what do u think about it? 

That all sounds great only problem is that  ACCUTANE ISN'T VITAMIN A , it's a  SYNTHETIC DRUG and acts totally different than a natural form of vit A ,

even  ROCHE  states we don't know the mechanism behind isotretinoin , but as I have said before I bet they do....

 

Accutane is not vitamin A. The body handles it differently from natural vitamin A (see Figure 4) and there are a number of lines of evidence showing that it acts as an anti-vitamin A compound that can aggravate vitamin A deficiency. In newborn mice treated with dexamethasone, a drug that induces emphysema-like changes to lung tissue, natural vitamin A helps treat the disorder while the active ingredient of Accutane has no effect and may even make it worse.30 Accutane caused night blindness, a traditional sign of vitamin A deficiency, in a child with cystic fibrosis, whereas vitamin A supplementation resolved the night blindness.31 In rats, the active ingredient of this drug accumulates in the eyes and interferes with vitamin A recycling; rats taking it at high doses took fifty times longer to recover from exposure to intense light than rats that did not take the drug at all.32

A physician published a letter earlier this year reporting that two patients developed depression on Accutane; when the physician took them off the drug and supplemented them with 10-12,000 IU of vitamin A for seven to ten days, the depression resolved and they were able to go back on the drug without it recurring.33 The totality of the evidence strongly suggests that vitamin A deficiency contributes to depression and that Accutane is associated with this mental illness because it interferes with vitamin A metabolism.

Ironically, in order to understand the connection of vitamin D with mental health, we must examine the next criticism levied against vitamin A.

Vitamin D and Eskimo Hysteria

Recent reviews reference a 1985 paper arguing that the high intake of vitamin A among the Arctic Inuit was responsible for a phenomenon of hysteria that they called pibloktoq.34 This disorder involves several days of irritability or withdrawal, a sudden excitation wherein the victim flees the camp and engages in irrational and dangerous behavior, convulsive seizures, a twelve-hour period of coma or stuporous sleep, and a return to normal. The author offers the following lines of evidence supporting a tie to vitamin A toxicity: the Inuit consider polar bear liver, which is the richest source of vitamin A, to be toxic; explorers who eat polar bear liver out of necessity experience drowsiness, irritability, headaches, and nausea within hours of consuming it; and case reports of vitamin A toxicity involve irritability, drowsiness, double vision and anorexia.

Even within this paper the author mentions numerous facts that make this hypothesis problematic. The specific symptoms of pibloktoq are limited to the Arctic and Antarctic and tend to occur in the late winter and early spring. There is no compelling explanation for why vitamin A toxicity would fall within these geographical and seasonal restrictions. The Inuit consider polar bear liver safe as long as the membrane is removed and consider seal liver, which contains half as much vitamin A, safe to eat in unlimited quantities. If vitamin A were the toxic component of polar bear liver, the cultural prohibition against eating the membrane would therefore be useless. Finally, vitamin A toxicity generally accompanies chronically high intakes over time, usually of chemically altered supplemental forms, whereas the hysterical episodes found among the Inuit are acute and sporadic.

In 1972, another author offered a much better hypothesis tying the episodes to hypocalcemic tetany, a disorder of involuntary muscle contractions accompanying severe deficiencies of calcium and vitamin D.35 The muscle contractions occur because the peripheral nerves cannot regulate their impulses in the absence of calcium. The disorder is often accompanied by “emotional and cognitive disorganization” and convulsive seizures, probably resulting from the absence of calcium in the central nervous system. Like pibloktoq, episodes are acute and sporadic.

Populations that inhabit areas of the Arctic where fishing is limited or the weather is unsuitable for drying fish—the primary source of vitamin D and calcium in the Inuit diet—have high rates of tetany in infants and muscle cramps, a related symptom, in adults. The bone disease rickets, by contrast, is extremely rare, suggesting that in the physically demanding environment of the Arctic, the Inuit have adapted by giving skeletal development priority over the nervous system. The Inuit have inherited numerous cultural adaptations centered on providing sufficient calcium and vitamin D to the members of their groups, especially to pregnant and lactating women, reinforcing the concept that vitamin D and calcium are periodically limiting factors for good health in these populations.

If we are to investigate the mechanism by which vitamin D may be involved in this illness, we should look first of all to its primary function—maintaining calcium status. One compelling explanation for how vitamin D may prevent the convulsive seizures associated with hypocalcemic tetany and pibloktoq is that it supplies the calcium necessary for the production of endocannabinoids. The marijuana derivative hashish has been used since at least the fifteenth century to treat epilepsy. More recent research has shown that the endocannabinoids named after this drug are powerful inhibitors of glutamate toxicity and many other seizure-promoting excitotoxins. Boosting their levels in the brain helps prevent the experimental induction of seizures, while depleting or antagonizing them lowers the amount of drugs necessary to induce seizures.36

The production of endocannabinoids from arachidonic acid is critically dependent on the supply of calcium since it is the influx of this mineral into the cell that turns on the enzymes responsible for this conversion.17 At a minimum, vitamin D is required to supply sufficient calcium to the brain in order for this influx to take place. Since some cells use vitamin D as a signal to open calcium channels and allow a rapid influx of calcium,19 it is possible that brain cells require vitamin D for endocannabinoid production in this way as well.




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