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Repairing the long-term damage from Accutane

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#3441 Mahweeoh

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 09:16 PM

 

 

This thread has become pretty useless for most of us because of the trolls and doesn't seem to be going anywhere to be honest. 

 

I disagree, I have made great progress the past two months thanks to this thread. At least one other person is progressing too.

 

Ever thought about certain folks having an interest to close down this thread???

 

Also I don't really know what you are doing on this thread, it appears that you actually can't wait to get on accutane:

 

http://www.acne.org/...sian-countries/

I'm glad you're progressing, but I'm on this thread to learn both sides. Some of the posts just seem to ramble and shoot random comments. Other people who haven't been on Accutane have come to learn from this thread as well. I've been studying Accutane for a while now and this site has ( more or less ) been very useful to see the positives and negatives of it. I've held off on Accutane for a while in an attempt to try to find the "root" cause, but I have wasted so much time doing so and doctors are quite slow. I've been at this for a long time.  I'm asking questions, but still waiting and hesitating to take something like this if there's an option to fix myself. 

 

Get off gluten (better even all overly starchy foods), sugars. Reduce inflammation in your body and boost your body's ability to recover and heal itself. Increasing the speed at which wound healing occurs takes you a long way. The root cause will be some combination of hormone and immune system imbalance due to genetics, environmental polutants such as heavy metals and pesticides, eating the wrong foods etc. 

 

My guess is you haven't seen my past posts on this and that's ok. I have been off these foods for years, including hidden culprits like casein and whey, or hidden glutens. I don't do dairy or wheat. I do fruit sugar. I've taken that away, and this away. My acne has reached a point where it doesn't care. I also heal slow as shit regardless. I think I heal faster eating "normal" foods actually. Also, someone mentioned Blue Ice, but I don't know what that is. I'm aware Accutane is the shittiest shit known to man. But when it makes you bleed all the time, causes pain and depression on top of all other things, it's very difficult to deal with and I know you can probably relate. You can't travel and not worry about it, eat on the go when you absolutely may need to or do other things that may be a part of life.  My acne is not severe but it is moderate and very persistent and very damaging to my skin and I'm 25 now. 



#3442 oli girl

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 09:46 PM

 

 

 

This thread has become pretty useless for most of us because of the trolls and doesn't seem to be going anywhere to be honest. 

 

I disagree, I have made great progress the past two months thanks to this thread. At least one other person is progressing too.

 

Ever thought about certain folks having an interest to close down this thread???

 

Also I don't really know what you are doing on this thread, it appears that you actually can't wait to get on accutane:

 

http://www.acne.org/...sian-countries/

I'm glad you're progressing, but I'm on this thread to learn both sides. Some of the posts just seem to ramble and shoot random comments. Other people who haven't been on Accutane have come to learn from this thread as well. I've been studying Accutane for a while now and this site has ( more or less ) been very useful to see the positives and negatives of it. I've held off on Accutane for a while in an attempt to try to find the "root" cause, but I have wasted so much time doing so and doctors are quite slow. I've been at this for a long time.  I'm asking questions, but still waiting and hesitating to take something like this if there's an option to fix myself. 

 

Get off gluten (better even all overly starchy foods), sugars. Reduce inflammation in your body and boost your body's ability to recover and heal itself. Increasing the speed at which wound healing occurs takes you a long way. The root cause will be some combination of hormone and immune system imbalance due to genetics, environmental polutants such as heavy metals and pesticides, eating the wrong foods etc. 

 

My guess is you haven't seen my past posts on this and that's ok. I have been off these foods for years, including hidden culprits like casein and whey, or hidden glutens. I don't do dairy or wheat. I do fruit sugar. I've taken that away, and this away. My acne has reached a point where it doesn't care. I also heal slow as shit regardless. I think I heal faster eating "normal" foods actually. Also, someone mentioned Blue Ice, but I don't know what that is. I'm aware Accutane is the shittiest shit known to man. But when it makes you bleed all the time, causes pain and depression on top of all other things, it's very difficult to deal with and I know you can probably relate. You can't travel and not worry about it, eat on the go when you absolutely may need to or do other things that may be a part of life.  My acne is not severe but it is moderate and very persistent and very damaging to my skin and I'm 25 now. 

Blue Ice is a high potency cod liver oil in which is high in Vit A and is known as a natural cure for acne. I have told you a million times that with your health conditions that if you take Accutane even a low dose like you inquired about in another thread then you are asking for even more or worse health problems.



I read this study last night I almost posted, but thought it had already been posted in this thread! Thanks

Here is a theory regarding how isotretinoin effects cellular mechanisms.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3219165/ (1)

He is talking about how FoXO is upregulated by isotretinoin and effects to HPA, hormone levels etc.
 
...and another theory...how western diet downregulates FoXO resulting in ACNE.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3408989/ (2)

 

It would be good if we had more of these studies...

without reading too much into both, I would say...

(1) suggests how potent a drug isotretinoin is and its effects on critical non-sebacous glan tissues in human body,

(2) shows how diet can help or exacerbate the condition.


The secret of health for both mind & body
is not to mourn for the past, not to worry about the future, or not anticipate troubles, but to live the present moment wisely and earnestly.
The Buddha

#3443 Mahweeoh

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 10:15 PM

 

 

 

 

This thread has become pretty useless for most of us because of the trolls and doesn't seem to be going anywhere to be honest. 

 

I disagree, I have made great progress the past two months thanks to this thread. At least one other person is progressing too.

 

Ever thought about certain folks having an interest to close down this thread???

 

Also I don't really know what you are doing on this thread, it appears that you actually can't wait to get on accutane:

 

http://www.acne.org/...sian-countries/

I'm glad you're progressing, but I'm on this thread to learn both sides. Some of the posts just seem to ramble and shoot random comments. Other people who haven't been on Accutane have come to learn from this thread as well. I've been studying Accutane for a while now and this site has ( more or less ) been very useful to see the positives and negatives of it. I've held off on Accutane for a while in an attempt to try to find the "root" cause, but I have wasted so much time doing so and doctors are quite slow. I've been at this for a long time.  I'm asking questions, but still waiting and hesitating to take something like this if there's an option to fix myself. 

 

Get off gluten (better even all overly starchy foods), sugars. Reduce inflammation in your body and boost your body's ability to recover and heal itself. Increasing the speed at which wound healing occurs takes you a long way. The root cause will be some combination of hormone and immune system imbalance due to genetics, environmental polutants such as heavy metals and pesticides, eating the wrong foods etc. 

 

My guess is you haven't seen my past posts on this and that's ok. I have been off these foods for years, including hidden culprits like casein and whey, or hidden glutens. I don't do dairy or wheat. I do fruit sugar. I've taken that away, and this away. My acne has reached a point where it doesn't care. I also heal slow as shit regardless. I think I heal faster eating "normal" foods actually. Also, someone mentioned Blue Ice, but I don't know what that is. I'm aware Accutane is the shittiest shit known to man. But when it makes you bleed all the time, causes pain and depression on top of all other things, it's very difficult to deal with and I know you can probably relate. You can't travel and not worry about it, eat on the go when you absolutely may need to or do other things that may be a part of life.  My acne is not severe but it is moderate and very persistent and very damaging to my skin and I'm 25 now. 

Blue Ice is a high potency cod liver oil in which is high in Vit A and is known as a natural cure for acne. I have told you a million times that with your health conditions that if you take Accutane even a low dose like you inquired about in another thread then you are asking for even more or worse health problems.



I read this study last night I almost posted, but thought it had already been posted in this thread! Thanks

>Here is a theory regarding how isotretinoin effects cellular mechanisms.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3219165/ (1)

He is talking about how FoXO is upregulated by isotretinoin and effects to HPA, hormone levels etc.
 
...and another theory...how western diet downregulates FoXO resulting in ACNE.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3408989/ (2)

 

It would be good if we had more of these studies...

without reading too much into both, I would say...

(1) suggests how potent a drug isotretinoin is and its effects on critical non-sebacous glan tissues in human body,

(2) shows how diet can help or exacerbate the condition.

 

 No need to be so unpleasant. I obviously remember that but you can't blame me for investigating. I was responding to him anyway and I think if I'm not mistaken, someone else mentioned Blue Ice, but thanks for the info. The Blue Ice I see is mainly flavored, so hopefully that's the right one. cool.png



#3444 JosephBuchignani

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 01:04 AM

Mahweooh, I suspect your diet is hurting rather than helping you. Going heavy fruit on an elimination diet is a bad idea. Fructose is not your friend. You are probably right that you heal faster eating normal foods. Sounds like you have suboptimized yourself into a negative corner. I did that multiple times before I found the correct dietary solution. 
 
blue ice cod liver oil butter oil blend:
Get the one at the bottom. take 1 per day in the morning. 
 
---
 
** fox01 explains all Accutane sides
 
The Fox01 study sounds amazingly accurate. It explains the underlying "rhyming" nature of Accutane injuries, their puzzling breadth and idiosyncrasy. 
 
What then is the solution? Can we target Fox01 directly again, or must we fight each individual brush fire? It's over my head, although I can hear the ring of truth. 
 
"In fact, all isotretinoin-mediated effects on sebocyte apoptosis, sebaceous lipogenesis, anti-inflammatory activity, downregulation of ROS can be explained by upregulation of nuclear levels of FoxO transcription factors. All isotretinoin-induced adverse effect on hepatic glucose and lipid metabolism, retinoid-induced dyslipoproteinemia, loss of bone density, myotoxic effects, mucocutaneous side effects, adverse psychiatric effects, chemopreventive effects and isotretinoin’s teratogenicity appear to result from a common mechanism, i.e., FoxO-mediated changes of gene expression."
 
That is holy-shit level brilliance. 
 
"In contrast, increased insulin/IGF-1 signaling of puberty and western diet due to high glycemic load and consumption of insulinotropic milk and milk products downregulates nuclear FoxO levels and thus promotes the development of acne.1"
 
Hellooooo. Milk is insulinotropic? Plain yogurt diet, anyone? 
 
WOW! Gotta read Table 2. A breakdown of the rhyme of Accutane: 
"Table 2. Comparison of retinoid-induced apoptosis in various cell types"
EVERYTHING is there!!!! 
 
** Supps for Fox0
 
Goal is to downregular FOXO. Googling... 
 
Resveratrol, longevity treatments
Hmm, if it's just longevity, then overall low inflammation diet and raising overall health and vitality is the logical way to go. Which is exactly what I've had to do. 
 
Guess what shrimp and cod liver oil are full of? DHA: 
 
Others:
Tyrosol (olive oil)
Green Tea
 
Curcumin:
 
Supps reviewing:
Resveratrol - always doubted and ignored this one. Wrongly, it's now clear. Just takes time to show effect, like Accutane, cuz attacking same pathways. After a month, increased energy. High priority to buy. 
 
Tyrosol
Nothing exists, drink olive oil instead if able
 
Green tea
well known
 
DHA
getting plenty, natural sources
 
Curcumin 
high priority to buy or try if have already (almost certain)


So THAT'S why Accutane is so hard to fix. It's the same problem everywhere, but you have to work around existing damage to treat, and you have to target different systems to fix. 


Accutane - Brief low-dose course ~9 years ago for ~4 months. Liver monitored, no sides. 
 
Symptoms: Gradual onset of symptoms, peaking ~5 years ago. Extreme IBS, lost ability to eat almost everything, unable to work for 4 years. IBD diagnosis might've been possible, but avoided doctors and the prescription meds route, going for diet and supplements instead. Thought it was regular IBS, didn't realize it was Accutane until already had avoided the IBD diagnosis. Decided going back to hell just to get the diagnosis wasn't worth it. Regained enough health to work full time around May-June 2013. 
 
Regimen summary:
Eat only 
1. true free range lean chicken breast (expensive)
2. Lean white-tail shrimp (moderately expensive)
3. Glutinous rice gruel (very cheap)
 
All ad libitum, minimum 150g shrimp/d. 
 
Supplements:
1. Blue Ice CLO / Butter Oil blend
2. Udca ~1-3g /d
3. Source Naturals Essential enzymes 2x per meal
4. Symbiotics Colostrum ~1/8 scoop per meal
5. Cycled topical testosterone cream
6. Topical ACV, tea tree oil (morning) and benzoyle peroxide 10% (night)
 
Zeitgeibers:
1. Aim to nap every 3 hours for 20 minutes
2. Match light exposure to sunrise, sunset
3. Match meals to sun

 


#3445 Gladiatoro

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 08:00 AM

Mahweooh, I suspect your diet is hurting rather than helping you. Going heavy fruit on an elimination diet is a bad idea. Fructose is not your friend. You are probably right that you heal faster eating normal foods. Sounds like you have suboptimized yourself into a negative corner. I did that multiple times before I found the correct dietary solution. 
 
blue ice cod liver oil butter oil blend:
Get the one at the bottom. take 1 per day in the morning. 
 
---
 
** fox01 explains all Accutane sides
 
The Fox01 study sounds amazingly accurate. It explains the underlying "rhyming" nature of Accutane injuries, their puzzling breadth and idiosyncrasy. 
 
What then is the solution? Can we target Fox01 directly again, or must we fight each individual brush fire? It's over my head, although I can hear the ring of truth. 
 
"In fact, all isotretinoin-mediated effects on sebocyte apoptosis, sebaceous lipogenesis, anti-inflammatory activity, downregulation of ROS can be explained by upregulation of nuclear levels of FoxO transcription factors. All isotretinoin-induced adverse effect on hepatic glucose and lipid metabolism, retinoid-induced dyslipoproteinemia, loss of bone density, myotoxic effects, mucocutaneous side effects, adverse psychiatric effects, chemopreventive effects and isotretinoin’s teratogenicity appear to result from a common mechanism, i.e., FoxO-mediated changes of gene expression."
 
That is holy-shit level brilliance. 
 
"In contrast, increased insulin/IGF-1 signaling of puberty and western diet due to high glycemic load and consumption of insulinotropic milk and milk products downregulates nuclear FoxO levels and thus promotes the development of acne.1"
 
Hellooooo. Milk is insulinotropic? Plain yogurt diet, anyone? 
 
WOW! Gotta read Table 2. A breakdown of the rhyme of Accutane: 
"Table 2. Comparison of retinoid-induced apoptosis in various cell types"
EVERYTHING is there!!!! 
 
** Supps for Fox0
 
Goal is to downregular FOXO. Googling... 
 
Resveratrol, longevity treatments
Hmm, if it's just longevity, then overall low inflammation diet and raising overall health and vitality is the logical way to go. Which is exactly what I've had to do. 
 
Guess what shrimp and cod liver oil are full of? DHA: 
 
Others:
Tyrosol (olive oil)
Green Tea
 
Curcumin:
 
Supps reviewing:
Resveratrol - always doubted and ignored this one. Wrongly, it's now clear. Just takes time to show effect, like Accutane, cuz attacking same pathways. After a month, increased energy. High priority to buy. 
 
Tyrosol
Nothing exists, drink olive oil instead if able
 
Green tea
well known
 
DHA
getting plenty, natural sources
 
Curcumin 
high priority to buy or try if have already (almost certain)


So THAT'S why Accutane is so hard to fix. It's the same problem everywhere, but you have to work around existing damage to treat, and you have to target different systems to fix. 

Joseph I think that' s your best post yet  , also Blue Ice is certainly super healthy stuff I think I'll buy some , yeah it's hard to fix Accutane damage

 

but I think were on the right track , I think I'll switch from organic coffee in the morning to organic green tea , it's funny this drug is forcing me to

 

live like a health nut lol...


Edited by gladiatoro, 23 July 2013 - 08:02 AM.


#3446 and1

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 08:20 AM

 

Mahweooh, I suspect your diet is hurting rather than helping you. Going heavy fruit on an elimination diet is a bad idea. Fructose is not your friend. You are probably right that you heal faster eating normal foods. Sounds like you have suboptimized yourself into a negative corner. I did that multiple times before I found the correct dietary solution. 
 
blue ice cod liver oil butter oil blend:
Get the one at the bottom. take 1 per day in the morning. 
 
---
 
** fox01 explains all Accutane sides
 
The Fox01 study sounds amazingly accurate. It explains the underlying "rhyming" nature of Accutane injuries, their puzzling breadth and idiosyncrasy. 
 
What then is the solution? Can we target Fox01 directly again, or must we fight each individual brush fire? It's over my head, although I can hear the ring of truth. 
 
"In fact, all isotretinoin-mediated effects on sebocyte apoptosis, sebaceous lipogenesis, anti-inflammatory activity, downregulation of ROS can be explained by upregulation of nuclear levels of FoxO transcription factors. All isotretinoin-induced adverse effect on hepatic glucose and lipid metabolism, retinoid-induced dyslipoproteinemia, loss of bone density, myotoxic effects, mucocutaneous side effects, adverse psychiatric effects, chemopreventive effects and isotretinoin’s teratogenicity appear to result from a common mechanism, i.e., FoxO-mediated changes of gene expression."
 
That is holy-shit level brilliance. 
 
"In contrast, increased insulin/IGF-1 signaling of puberty and western diet due to high glycemic load and consumption of insulinotropic milk and milk products downregulates nuclear FoxO levels and thus promotes the development of acne.1"
 
Hellooooo. Milk is insulinotropic? Plain yogurt diet, anyone? 
 
WOW! Gotta read Table 2. A breakdown of the rhyme of Accutane: 
"Table 2. Comparison of retinoid-induced apoptosis in various cell types"
EVERYTHING is there!!!! 
 
** Supps for Fox0
 
Goal is to downregular FOXO. Googling... 
 
Resveratrol, longevity treatments
Hmm, if it's just longevity, then overall low inflammation diet and raising overall health and vitality is the logical way to go. Which is exactly what I've had to do. 
 
Guess what shrimp and cod liver oil are full of? DHA: 
 
Others:
Tyrosol (olive oil)
Green Tea
 
Curcumin:
 
Supps reviewing:
Resveratrol - always doubted and ignored this one. Wrongly, it's now clear. Just takes time to show effect, like Accutane, cuz attacking same pathways. After a month, increased energy. High priority to buy. 
 
Tyrosol
Nothing exists, drink olive oil instead if able
 
Green tea
well known
 
DHA
getting plenty, natural sources
 
Curcumin 
high priority to buy or try if have already (almost certain)


So THAT'S why Accutane is so hard to fix. It's the same problem everywhere, but you have to work around existing damage to treat, and you have to target different systems to fix. 

Joseph I think that' s your best post yet  , also Blue Ice is certainly super healthy stuff I think I'll buy some , yeah it's hard to fix Accutane damage

 

but I think were on the right track , I think I'll switch from organic coffee in the morning to organic green tea , it's funny this drug is forcing me to

 

live like a health nut lol...

 

I will get on the blue ice too, it takes the first place on my list of to do supps, but I am afraid that the oil is going to arrive rancid, because it is summer, this is why I will wait until at least October before ordering it.



#3447 JosephBuchignani

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 05:58 PM

Makes no sense, underground. the oil does not go rancid. I waited to take mine for 6-8 months after ordering, and had it shipped during summer. It was still super potent. 


Accutane - Brief low-dose course ~9 years ago for ~4 months. Liver monitored, no sides. 
 
Symptoms: Gradual onset of symptoms, peaking ~5 years ago. Extreme IBS, lost ability to eat almost everything, unable to work for 4 years. IBD diagnosis might've been possible, but avoided doctors and the prescription meds route, going for diet and supplements instead. Thought it was regular IBS, didn't realize it was Accutane until already had avoided the IBD diagnosis. Decided going back to hell just to get the diagnosis wasn't worth it. Regained enough health to work full time around May-June 2013. 
 
Regimen summary:
Eat only 
1. true free range lean chicken breast (expensive)
2. Lean white-tail shrimp (moderately expensive)
3. Glutinous rice gruel (very cheap)
 
All ad libitum, minimum 150g shrimp/d. 
 
Supplements:
1. Blue Ice CLO / Butter Oil blend
2. Udca ~1-3g /d
3. Source Naturals Essential enzymes 2x per meal
4. Symbiotics Colostrum ~1/8 scoop per meal
5. Cycled topical testosterone cream
6. Topical ACV, tea tree oil (morning) and benzoyle peroxide 10% (night)
 
Zeitgeibers:
1. Aim to nap every 3 hours for 20 minutes
2. Match light exposure to sunrise, sunset
3. Match meals to sun

 


#3448 Gladiatoro

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 09:44 PM

Here is a little more info on saw palmetto , the berries of the saw palmetto pland are regarded by folk medicine as a SEXUAL STIMULANT , INCREASING MALE FERTILITY  and breast size in women . Pharmacologically saw palmetto is classified as having immune stimulating and ani edema effects . However saw palmetto is most prized for it's ability to reduce enlarge prostate knows as benign prostatic hypertrophy or BHP and to alleviate the pain and inflammation associated with this condition.

According to research published in the British journal of urology , saw palmetto is a potent inhibitor of conversion of testosterone into dht , known to cause rapid multiplication of prostate cells which eventually leads to an lenolaredged prostate gland . In more technical terms , saw palmetto inhibits the enzyme testosterone 5 alpha reductase from transforming healthy testosterone hormones into unhealthy dht , saw palmetto also prevents dht from attaching to prostate cellular receptor sites and so promotes dht breakdown and excretion .

 

Saw palmetto also acts as an antiseptic and astringent , shrinking inflamed urinary system tissues and stimulating urine flow to expel irritants and toxins. Saw palmetto is considered by many to be the herb of choice for treating cystiis , IMPOTENCE , prostatitis , REDUCED OR ABSENT SEX DRIVE  , REVERSING MALE PATTERN BALDING , testicular astrophy and urinary tract infections . Perhaps less well known is th use of saw palmetto for hirsutism excessive body hair in a masculine distribution and virilism development of secondary male sexual characteristics  ,  also knows as pseudohermaphroditism in women.

 

In 1984 a double blind study was conducted on the ability of saw palmetto berries to fight the hormone imbalance which causes prostate growth . The results printed in the British journal  of clinical pharmacology  showed saw palmetto had a very significant effect on urine flow of men with benign prostatic hypertrophy BHP symptoms. Further , the results showed saw palmetto  proved more effective than the DRUG Proscar which is commonly prescribed for prostate problems.

 

Due to the presence of steroidal saponins , saw palmetto is considered an anabolic agent , strengthening the building up body tissues and encouraging weight gain . Thus , saw palmetto has gained popularity with body builders and others desiring muscle size and strength , as well as those suffering  from general debility , wasting diseases , or failure to thrive.

 

So you see Saw Palmetto has MANY BENEFITS and that's why I use it.  (=

Hi all - I'm not going to read this entire thread, but I want to add my two cents on 5-AR inhibition through saw palmetto. It seems like there are mostly men talking about this. I took this stuff for a month in November 2011, and 20 months later, it's become the worst decision I ever made. Saw palmetto could and probably would be a saving grace for many of you. Nevertheless, I've since learned that inhibiting the conversion of testosterone to DHT is serious business. For a minority of individuals like myself, it has debilitating consequences. You can't know your risk factor for developing sides from taking something like saw palmetto or finasteride. I've had persistent cognitive and sexual side effects that I wouldn't wish upon anyone on this site. I won't tell anyone what to do, but I hope folks will take my example to heart. All the best to you!

 

P.S. If anyone took saw palmetto and experienced any side effects of any kind, regardless of the duration, PLEASE get in touch with me.

My experience with SP wasn't bad , but I also found no   GREAT BENEFIT  from it  other than some hair growth which was intriguing  also as I

 

have stated before it seemed my sexual side effects were actually benefitial or the same never had a problem in that department anyways , so I

 

would not recommend it or deter people from taking it ,  the whole DHT blocker thing was run through the ringer with Z24  , it was his GREAT 

 

contribution to this forum lol....

 

 

 

Taking all those antibiotics is a NO NO  that will severely damage your immune system read some of my posts on  ANTI- LIFE  Biotics if

 

anything they will make your acne worse in the long run and destroy your gut health and immunity ,  NOT GOOD .  If you want to take a

 

antibiotic take wild oil of oregano , this potent herb will make synthetic antibiotics look like complete  garbage . And Joesph I forgot to metion

 

earlier your new avatar is very appropriate , me likes.


Edited by gladiatoro, 23 July 2013 - 09:50 PM.


#3449 Mahweeoh

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 11:17 PM

Mahweooh, I suspect your diet is hurting rather than helping you. Going heavy fruit on an elimination diet is a bad idea. Fructose is not your friend. You are probably right that you heal faster eating normal foods. Sounds like you have suboptimized yourself into a negative corner. I did that multiple times before I found the correct dietary solution. 
 
blue ice cod liver oil butter oil blend:
Get the one at the bottom. take 1 per day in the morning. 
 
---
 
** fox01 explains all Accutane sides
 
The Fox01 study sounds amazingly accurate. It explains the underlying "rhyming" nature of Accutane injuries, their puzzling breadth and idiosyncrasy. 
 
What then is the solution? Can we target Fox01 directly again, or must we fight each individual brush fire? It's over my head, although I can hear the ring of truth. 
 
"In fact, all isotretinoin-mediated effects on sebocyte apoptosis, sebaceous lipogenesis, anti-inflammatory activity, downregulation of ROS can be explained by upregulation of nuclear levels of FoxO transcription factors. All isotretinoin-induced adverse effect on hepatic glucose and lipid metabolism, retinoid-induced dyslipoproteinemia, loss of bone density, myotoxic effects, mucocutaneous side effects, adverse psychiatric effects, chemopreventive effects and isotretinoin’s teratogenicity appear to result from a common mechanism, i.e., FoxO-mediated changes of gene expression."
 
That is holy-shit level brilliance. 
 
"In contrast, increased insulin/IGF-1 signaling of puberty and western diet due to high glycemic load and consumption of insulinotropic milk and milk products downregulates nuclear FoxO levels and thus promotes the development of acne.1"
 
Hellooooo. Milk is insulinotropic? Plain yogurt diet, anyone? 
 
WOW! Gotta read Table 2. A breakdown of the rhyme of Accutane: 
"Table 2. Comparison of retinoid-induced apoptosis in various cell types"
EVERYTHING is there!!!! 
 
** Supps for Fox0
 
Goal is to downregular FOXO. Googling... 
 
Resveratrol, longevity treatments
Hmm, if it's just longevity, then overall low inflammation diet and raising overall health and vitality is the logical way to go. Which is exactly what I've had to do. 
 
Guess what shrimp and cod liver oil are full of? DHA: 
 
Others:
Tyrosol (olive oil)
Green Tea
 
Curcumin:
 
Supps reviewing:
Resveratrol - always doubted and ignored this one. Wrongly, it's now clear. Just takes time to show effect, like Accutane, cuz attacking same pathways. After a month, increased energy. High priority to buy. 
 
Tyrosol
Nothing exists, drink olive oil instead if able
 
Green tea
well known
 
DHA
getting plenty, natural sources
 
Curcumin 
high priority to buy or try if have already (almost certain)


So THAT'S why Accutane is so hard to fix. It's the same problem everywhere, but you have to work around existing damage to treat, and you have to target different systems to fix. 

 

As I mentioned I've added or eliminated things over the years, thus ruling out this possibility. I'm well aware of the hidden things in diet that could "cause" acne but mine is very strange. I was off these various things and such and there really is no trigger anymore, unless I want to eat air and sunlight. Might not be a bad idea. tongue.png

 

Thanks for the information on Blue Ice. Maybe I'll pick some up and if it's good enough I'll let people know about its effects. It certainly can't hurt my health, at least. If I can help with any insight into abnormal labs you might have from Accutane let me know. I've come to learn a lot about the adrenals and parathyroid glands, as well as thyroid and pituitary when I was successfully able to diagnose my mother and I with parathyroid disease.  Obviously no doc, but I have studied a lot to see when docs are missing something and I generally want to help. 



#3450 and1

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 12:09 PM

Now we start talking about antioxidants, they are probably also part of any protocol that is supposed to regenerate the liver. How I understand it is if you want to regenerate the liver you will use supplements to boost its metabolism and to make it let go of stored toxins. A while ago somebody posted a link to an articel which described how phase I and II of the detoxifiaction mechanism of the liver function and how free radicals are produced in the process. This is why you need a bunch of antioxidants to prevent the free radicals from doing damage. But even if you are not trying to rebuild the liver, antioxidants will help keep inflammation in check.


Edited by Undergroundwellness, 24 July 2013 - 12:10 PM.


#3451 whoartthou1

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 03:33 PM

Anyone here take a low dose course of accutane (something like 30 20 mg pills over a course of 2 months) and experience any permanent issues, such as skin healing adversely affected? I weigh 125 lbs and I am 5"10 height



#3452 MovingOn

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 10:04 PM

Just thought I'd pop back in and update everyone that I have been using supplemental iodine for almost 3 months now and I have had nearly no joint pain, smooth skin, and better hydration (although I still drink tons of water regardless). My thyroid show sup fine on all tests post-tane.  Been checked for everything else under the sun so I figured I would try iodine since it's helped others.  I think everything has to do with inflammation and hydration to be honest.  Iodine helps cells retain moisture and bring fluid to the tissues.  My diet blows, and that's when I feel things start to slip.  I was doing gluten free which greatly helped, but iodine covers my major symptoms...so if any of you have any severe unexplained joint pain, I would (ask you doctor...laughs) about it. I really hope ot can help some others on here who havn't explored it yet, and yes it's naturally occurring in the body and accutane is implicated in reducing the body's ability to use iodine. go figure!  I've also been taking lithium ororate which has vastly improved my mood and helped me to stay focused and reduce my ruminating on symptoms.  therapy has also been a major need in my life that I have been putting off but have finally taken seriously and started going regularly.  the only problem that still persists is ridiculous shedding of hair (started on rogaine but am concerned about other sides but desperately want my hair back--my understanding is that it is not an anti-androgen but a blood vessel dilator (sure there's some scientific name for this that I'm not retaining...I digress). the MAIN problem I have encountered is bad GUMS.  I have the best dental hygiene and teeth known to man, but my gums are receding and I all of a sudden have some pockets and really painful teeth and gums. My jaw bone has also been hurting so I am going to the dentist next week,...sounds like periodontitis from my researching.  Came on out of NOWHERE, although i do eat a decent amount of sugar which may trigger it.  Anyone have teeth issues that they have been able to manage/resolve post tane? Any help would be awesome.



#3453 MovingOn

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 10:32 PM

scratch that now im reading that rogaine is a mild anti-androgen. WTF! just want something to stimulate hair growth that isn't an anti-androgen. i can feel rogain stimulating my scalp too so frustrating but the fact that im already getting drying effects similar to when i tried saw palmetto i know it's an anti-androgen. GRRRR



#3454 Gladiatoro

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 10:40 PM

Just thought I'd pop back in and update everyone that I have been using supplemental iodine for almost 3 months now and I have had nearly no joint pain, smooth skin, and better hydration (although I still drink tons of water regardless). My thyroid show sup fine on all tests post-tane.  Been checked for everything else under the sun so I figured I would try iodine since it's helped others.  I think everything has to do with inflammation and hydration to be honest.  Iodine helps cells retain moisture and bring fluid to the tissues.  My diet blows, and that's when I feel things start to slip.  I was doing gluten free which greatly helped, but iodine covers my major symptoms...so if any of you have any severe unexplained joint pain, I would (ask you doctor...laughs) about it. I really hope ot can help some others on here who havn't explored it yet, and yes it's naturally occurring in the body and accutane is implicated in reducing the body's ability to use iodine. go figure!  I've also been taking lithium ororate which has vastly improved my mood and helped me to stay focused and reduce my ruminating on symptoms.  therapy has also been a major need in my life that I have been putting off but have finally taken seriously and started going regularly.  the only problem that still persists is ridiculous shedding of hair (started on rogaine but am concerned about other sides but desperately want my hair back--my understanding is that it is not an anti-androgen but a blood vessel dilator (sure there's some scientific name for this that I'm not retaining...I digress). the MAIN problem I have encountered is bad GUMS.  I have the best dental hygiene and teeth known to man, but my gums are receding and I all of a sudden have some pockets and really painful teeth and gums. My jaw bone has also been hurting so I am going to the dentist next week,...sounds like periodontitis from my researching.  Came on out of NOWHERE, although i do eat a decent amount of sugar which may trigger it.  Anyone have teeth issues that they have been able to manage/resolve post tane? Any help would be awesome.

Good to hear from you again , I told you the lithium orotate would help you really should listen to me and my advice more often ,  I'm glad your

 

joint pain is better I had severe back pain for a while not fun it literally ruined my life I couldn't work much due to the pain out of a scale of 1 to 10

 

it was 11 , no question 100% related to isotretinoin the biggest trigger back then was beer once I reduced that  to near nil the back pain

 

subsided I still get it but no where near to that level I got a xray on my back once and it showed inflammation in my spine I discovered wild oil of

 

oregano really helps with pain management and overall energy among other things . I still take  BAXYL it is good for joint pain and overall

 

dryness.

 

 

 

The whole rogaine thing not too sure on that , let me know how it works out for you sounds ..........toxic.


Edited by gladiatoro, 25 July 2013 - 06:21 AM.


#3455 JosephBuchignani

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 01:10 AM

Thanks Mahweeoh. In my view, if you can maintain high performance then you are healthy. 
 
Tried goat cheese, one bite, total gut meltdown 12 hours later. Ingredients were only goat milk, ferments and coagulant. Supposedly no lactic acid, although it was a soft cheese so maybe sugar content was mislabeled. 
 
Anyone have an idea why goat cheese would trigger but homemade yogurt doesn't? 
 
Anyway, the addition of fiber and polyphasic sleep made it a much smoother meltdown. Wasn't even late for work. So that's quite positive. 
 
ModestMouse, would you please pick a username and stick with it. It's less work for you registering, and less work for us adding to the ignore list. 
 
Whoartthou1, mine was a short low dose course of accutane. Skin's fine (no real change in acne), bowels fucked. I had about 65 pounds of height and muscle on you at that point. 
 
Blue ice is excellent for teeth and gums, MovingOn. Shave your head and move on. 
 
Yeah wtf rogaine -> finasteride -> accutane. 3 hops is too close for my comfort. 
 
I think it's pretty clear that ModestMouse's spastic obsession with anti-androgens is not warranted; it is FOX0 that is the underlying mechanism of Accutane's action, and not everyone's androgen receptors are affected. But, for those already getting androgen sides, taking more of the same is colossally stupid. 

Accutane - Brief low-dose course ~9 years ago for ~4 months. Liver monitored, no sides. 
 
Symptoms: Gradual onset of symptoms, peaking ~5 years ago. Extreme IBS, lost ability to eat almost everything, unable to work for 4 years. IBD diagnosis might've been possible, but avoided doctors and the prescription meds route, going for diet and supplements instead. Thought it was regular IBS, didn't realize it was Accutane until already had avoided the IBD diagnosis. Decided going back to hell just to get the diagnosis wasn't worth it. Regained enough health to work full time around May-June 2013. 
 
Regimen summary:
Eat only 
1. true free range lean chicken breast (expensive)
2. Lean white-tail shrimp (moderately expensive)
3. Glutinous rice gruel (very cheap)
 
All ad libitum, minimum 150g shrimp/d. 
 
Supplements:
1. Blue Ice CLO / Butter Oil blend
2. Udca ~1-3g /d
3. Source Naturals Essential enzymes 2x per meal
4. Symbiotics Colostrum ~1/8 scoop per meal
5. Cycled topical testosterone cream
6. Topical ACV, tea tree oil (morning) and benzoyle peroxide 10% (night)
 
Zeitgeibers:
1. Aim to nap every 3 hours for 20 minutes
2. Match light exposure to sunrise, sunset
3. Match meals to sun

 


#3456 Mahweeoh

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 01:58 AM

Thanks Mahweeoh. In my view, if you can maintain high performance then you are healthy. 
 
Tried goat cheese, one bite, total gut meltdown 12 hours later. Ingredients were only goat milk, ferments and coagulant. Supposedly no lactic acid, although it was a soft cheese so maybe sugar content was mislabeled. 
 
Anyone have an idea why goat cheese would trigger but homemade yogurt doesn't? 
 
Anyway, the addition of fiber and polyphasic sleep made it a much smoother meltdown. Wasn't even late for work. So that's quite positive. 
 
ModestMouse, would you please pick a username and stick with it. It's less work for you registering, and less work for us adding to the ignore list. 
 
Whoartthou1, mine was a short low dose course of accutane. Skin's fine (no real change in acne), bowels fucked. I had about 65 pounds of height and muscle on you at that point. 
 
Blue ice is excellent for teeth and gums, MovingOn. Shave your head and move on. 
 
Yeah wtf rogaine -> finasteride -> accutane. 3 hops is too close for my comfort. 
 
I think it's pretty clear that ModestMouse's spastic obsession with anti-androgens is not warranted; it is FOX0 that is the underlying mechanism of Accutane's action, and not everyone's androgen receptors are affected. But, for those already getting androgen sides, taking more of the same is colossally stupid. 

 

 

Thanks Mahweeoh. In my view, if you can maintain high performance then you are healthy. 
 
Tried goat cheese, one bite, total gut meltdown 12 hours later. Ingredients were only goat milk, ferments and coagulant. Supposedly no lactic acid, although it was a soft cheese so maybe sugar content was mislabeled. 
 
Anyone have an idea why goat cheese would trigger but homemade yogurt doesn't? 
 
Anyway, the addition of fiber and polyphasic sleep made it a much smoother meltdown. Wasn't even late for work. So that's quite positive. 
 
ModestMouse, would you please pick a username and stick with it. It's less work for you registering, and less work for us adding to the ignore list. 
 
Whoartthou1, mine was a short low dose course of accutane. Skin's fine (no real change in acne), bowels fucked. I had about 65 pounds of height and muscle on you at that point. 
 
Blue ice is excellent for teeth and gums, MovingOn. Shave your head and move on. 
 
Yeah wtf rogaine -> finasteride -> accutane. 3 hops is too close for my comfort. 
 
I think it's pretty clear that ModestMouse's spastic obsession with anti-androgens is not warranted; it is FOX0 that is the underlying mechanism of Accutane's action, and not everyone's androgen receptors are affected. But, for those already getting androgen sides, taking more of the same is colossally stupid. 

 

So your only symptom is your bowels are messed up? Like loose stool and diarrhea? 



#3457 JosephBuchignani

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 02:11 AM

Yeah, extreme cramps, gut pain, fatigue, total meltdown if don't eat super strict diet. Unable to work or function in any way.


Accutane - Brief low-dose course ~9 years ago for ~4 months. Liver monitored, no sides. 
 
Symptoms: Gradual onset of symptoms, peaking ~5 years ago. Extreme IBS, lost ability to eat almost everything, unable to work for 4 years. IBD diagnosis might've been possible, but avoided doctors and the prescription meds route, going for diet and supplements instead. Thought it was regular IBS, didn't realize it was Accutane until already had avoided the IBD diagnosis. Decided going back to hell just to get the diagnosis wasn't worth it. Regained enough health to work full time around May-June 2013. 
 
Regimen summary:
Eat only 
1. true free range lean chicken breast (expensive)
2. Lean white-tail shrimp (moderately expensive)
3. Glutinous rice gruel (very cheap)
 
All ad libitum, minimum 150g shrimp/d. 
 
Supplements:
1. Blue Ice CLO / Butter Oil blend
2. Udca ~1-3g /d
3. Source Naturals Essential enzymes 2x per meal
4. Symbiotics Colostrum ~1/8 scoop per meal
5. Cycled topical testosterone cream
6. Topical ACV, tea tree oil (morning) and benzoyle peroxide 10% (night)
 
Zeitgeibers:
1. Aim to nap every 3 hours for 20 minutes
2. Match light exposure to sunrise, sunset
3. Match meals to sun

 


#3458 and1

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 02:34 AM

Tried goat cheese, one bite, total gut meltdown 12 hours later. Ingredients were only goat milk, ferments and coagulant. Supposedly no lactic acid, although it was a soft cheese so maybe sugar content was mislabeled. 
 
Anyone have an idea why goat cheese would trigger but homemade yogurt doesn't? 

 

An idea? I got a clue: I am not lactose intolerant, the only dairy I consume regularly is plain organic yoghurt. What my body does not tolerate anymore is cheese, doesn't really matter which kind of cheese. I love cheese and used to eat a ton of it. I suspect that I am somewhat intolerant to casein (=cheese). Let me add to avoid confusion. Casein is also in other dairy based products aside from cheese, but just cutting out cheese works for me, otherwise I get bloating, sometimes cramps and acne within hours.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casein



Just thought I'd pop back in and update everyone that I have been using supplemental iodine for almost 3 months now and I have had nearly no joint pain, smooth skin, and better hydration (although I still drink tons of water regardless). My thyroid show sup fine on all tests post-tane.  Been checked for everything else under the sun so I figured I would try iodine since it's helped others.  I think everything has to do with inflammation and hydration to be honest.  Iodine helps cells retain moisture and bring fluid to the tissues.  My diet blows, and that's when I feel things start to slip.  I was doing gluten free which greatly helped, but iodine covers my major symptoms...so if any of you have any severe unexplained joint pain, I would (ask you doctor...laughs) about it. I really hope ot can help some others on here who havn't explored it yet, and yes it's naturally occurring in the body and accutane is implicated in reducing the body's ability to use iodine. go figure!  I've also been taking lithium ororate which has vastly improved my mood and helped me to stay focused and reduce my ruminating on symptoms.  therapy has also been a major need in my life that I have been putting off but have finally taken seriously and started going regularly.  the only problem that still persists is ridiculous shedding of hair (started on rogaine but am concerned about other sides but desperately want my hair back--my understanding is that it is not an anti-androgen but a blood vessel dilator (sure there's some scientific name for this that I'm not retaining...I digress). the MAIN problem I have encountered is bad GUMS.  I have the best dental hygiene and teeth known to man, but my gums are receding and I all of a sudden have some pockets and really painful teeth and gums. My jaw bone has also been hurting so I am going to the dentist next week,...sounds like periodontitis from my researching.  Came on out of NOWHERE, although i do eat a decent amount of sugar which may trigger it.  Anyone have teeth issues that they have been able to manage/resolve post tane? Any help would be awesome.

 

Thanks for the update. I have come across iodine time and time again - the famous lugol's solution - and have always been afraid of taking it, because it influences thyroid activity. Recently I saw a video of John Gray in which he talked about how it helps people who are affected by chlorine. I don't tolerate chlorine very well at all, so I am now considering trying it. What supplement do you take, at what dose? Are there any precautions to take, side effects to look out for? I don't want to mess up my thyroid. 

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=mRDR-6tBtV8


Edited by Undergroundwellness, 25 July 2013 - 03:19 AM.


#3459 JosephBuchignani

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 10:10 AM

Show me the chemical castrati victims of green tea, and I'll consider your case. Until then, you're just conflating the two functions of androgen receptors.
 
From Wikipedia:
 
"The main function of the androgen receptor is as a DNA-binding transcription factor that regulates gene expression;[10] however, the androgen receptor has other functions as well.[11] Androgen regulated genes are critical for the development and maintenance of the male sexual phenotype."
 
Not everything that antagonizes function 1 also antagonizes function 2. That is your endlessly repeated, boring, ctrl-f study-spamming error. Nobody cares. Go home. 
 
High dose accutane lowered sebum and AR receptors in 6 males. Great. Does not refute that low dose accutane lowered neither in many. 
 
"It has already been acknowledged that isotretinoin affects AR levels; and, FOX01 does interact with the AR, so you are wrong on both counts. "
 
Affects and interacts with function 1 != antagonizes function 2. 
 
"Foxo1, a downstream molecule that becomes phosphorylated and inactivated by phosphatidylinositol 3-kinase/Akt kinase in response to IGF1 or insulin, suppresses ligand-mediated AR transactivation. Foxo1 reduces androgen-induced AR target gene expressions and suppresses the in vitro growth of prostate cancer cells. These inhibitory effects of Foxo1 are attenuated by IGF1 but are enhanced when it is rendered Akt-nonphosphorylatable. "
 
Curing prostate cancer does not support your case against green tea. 
 
The Chinese have a saying to which the last couple decades of economic miracle can be directly attributed: "No matter black cat white cat, can catch mouse, good cat." 

Accutane - Brief low-dose course ~9 years ago for ~4 months. Liver monitored, no sides. 
 
Symptoms: Gradual onset of symptoms, peaking ~5 years ago. Extreme IBS, lost ability to eat almost everything, unable to work for 4 years. IBD diagnosis might've been possible, but avoided doctors and the prescription meds route, going for diet and supplements instead. Thought it was regular IBS, didn't realize it was Accutane until already had avoided the IBD diagnosis. Decided going back to hell just to get the diagnosis wasn't worth it. Regained enough health to work full time around May-June 2013. 
 
Regimen summary:
Eat only 
1. true free range lean chicken breast (expensive)
2. Lean white-tail shrimp (moderately expensive)
3. Glutinous rice gruel (very cheap)
 
All ad libitum, minimum 150g shrimp/d. 
 
Supplements:
1. Blue Ice CLO / Butter Oil blend
2. Udca ~1-3g /d
3. Source Naturals Essential enzymes 2x per meal
4. Symbiotics Colostrum ~1/8 scoop per meal
5. Cycled topical testosterone cream
6. Topical ACV, tea tree oil (morning) and benzoyle peroxide 10% (night)
 
Zeitgeibers:
1. Aim to nap every 3 hours for 20 minutes
2. Match light exposure to sunrise, sunset
3. Match meals to sun

 


#3460 MovingOn

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 02:25 PM

What exactly is Blue Ice before I try something else that will just hurt me?



 

Tried goat cheese, one bite, total gut meltdown 12 hours later. Ingredients were only goat milk, ferments and coagulant. Supposedly no lactic acid, although it was a soft cheese so maybe sugar content was mislabeled. 
 
Anyone have an idea why goat cheese would trigger but homemade yogurt doesn't? 

 

An idea? I got a clue: I am not lactose intolerant, the only dairy I consume regularly is plain organic yoghurt. What my body does not tolerate anymore is cheese, doesn't really matter which kind of cheese. I love cheese and used to eat a ton of it. I suspect that I am somewhat intolerant to casein (=cheese). Let me add to avoid confusion. Casein is also in other dairy based products aside from cheese, but just cutting out cheese works for me, otherwise I get bloating, sometimes cramps and acne within hours.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casein



>Just thought I'd pop back in and update everyone that I have been using supplemental iodine for almost 3 months now and I have had nearly no joint pain, smooth skin, and better hydration (although I still drink tons of water regardless). My thyroid show sup fine on all tests post-tane.  Been checked for everything else under the sun so I figured I would try iodine since it's helped others.  I think everything has to do with inflammation and hydration to be honest.  Iodine helps cells retain moisture and bring fluid to the tissues.  My diet blows, and that's when I feel things start to slip.  I was doing gluten free which greatly helped, but iodine covers my major symptoms...so if any of you have any severe unexplained joint pain, I would (ask you doctor...laughs) about it. I really hope ot can help some others on here who havn't explored it yet, and yes it's naturally occurring in the body and accutane is implicated in reducing the body's ability to use iodine. go figure!  I've also been taking lithium ororate which has vastly improved my mood and helped me to stay focused and reduce my ruminating on symptoms.  therapy has also been a major need in my life that I have been putting off but have finally taken seriously and started going regularly.  the only problem that still persists is ridiculous shedding of hair (started on rogaine but am concerned about other sides but desperately want my hair back--my understanding is that it is not an anti-androgen but a blood vessel dilator (sure there's some scientific name for this that I'm not retaining...I digress). the MAIN problem I have encountered is bad GUMS.  I have the best dental hygiene and teeth known to man, but my gums are receding and I all of a sudden have some pockets and really painful teeth and gums. My jaw bone has also been hurting so I am going to the dentist next week,...sounds like periodontitis from my researching.  Came on out of NOWHERE, although i do eat a decent amount of sugar which may trigger it.  Anyone have teeth issues that they have been able to manage/resolve post tane? Any help would be awesome.

 

Thanks for the update. I have come across iodine time and time again - the famous lugol's solution - and have always been afraid of taking it, because it influences thyroid activity. Recently I saw a video of John Gray in which he talked about how it helps people who are affected by chlorine. I don't tolerate chlorine very well at all, so I am now considering trying it. What supplement do you take, at what dose? Are there any precautions to take, side effects to look out for? I don't want to mess up my thyroid. 

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=mRDR-6tBtV8

 

I take Biotics Iodine. Bought it on Amazon, liked the reviews.  I started with one drop and increased as my body saw fit.  I take probably close to 1g per day now.  Instantly lubricated joints...thyroid was definitely damaged but in such a way that it doesn't show up in my blood. go figure.  Sides I got at first were a little bit similar to an anxiety attack but i just backed off a bit and that went away FOR ME.  other than that, you may feel something similar to cold symptoms, it gets mucus flowing down your sinuses into back of throat...drink tons of water.  It helps my energy so much! can't even explain it. life changer for me.  No other bad side effects for me and I've been on it for 3 months, and i tried it for a stint of 2 weeks a while back but stopped because i was scared too! :)






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