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Repairing the long-term damage from Accutane

vitamin d vitamin a vitamin e biotin garlic milk thistle depression

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#3301 camaroz28

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:04 PM


Though somehow I feel I would be the one to suffer the consequences from this medication and I'm terrified to take it. Do you think it's possible to foresee if it's gonna happen to me? Maybe

Pianina, we appreciate your concerns, but no one can rigorously foretell what will happen with Accutane, or, even seemingly lower-ranking treatment modalities, for that matter. I say, this because he even low-dose vitamin A consumption is very dangerous with duration. You may also want to try herbal antiandrogens (saw palmetto, stinging nettle, etc.), but given that long-term supplementation is required, danger is abound. I love the pretty flowers (are they Dendrobium?); we are all quite enamored with Gladiolus here.


"Fret not fellas. I've got a 145 IQ, zen pain tolerance, the resilience of a cockroach, the survival instincts of a rat. I'll win; it's what I do. And then I'll help all of you, forgetting no one; I swear."

 

"I did get some fatigue and minor cramps from taste testing spicy food I was cooking. Even though I didn't swallow and rinsed, the residue got me. This hypersensitivity is annoying."

 

 

Thus spoke Joseph Buchignani.


#3302 sasquire

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:22 PM

Sorry, I see i made a mistake coming here and asking... thanks for the answer though... Others can ignore my post.

Don't take it too much too heart :)  Accutane suffers have alot on their plate, which usually includes a short temper. :)

There's always some young teenager as well who pops onto a forum here and there, has a few minor pimples in odd spots, and says they're jumping on accutane and they don't care about the consequences. In can make your nerves (those that are left functioning!) go raw.

 

In the case on cystic acne, I can understand your desperation. Will accutane help with that? Most likely it will. Will it have consequences? Yes, but we can't say how severe at this time. As you're already showing certain symptoms, I would hazard a guess that you are actually more vulnerable to such damage. I know cystic acne is really horrible to have but the cost of using accutane isn't worth it. If you eventually do, you can negate alot of the consequences by taking supps/drugs that protect your liver. UDCA is the best, but cheaper alternatives like NAC, Liv.52 and milk thistle can help. There's quite a few threads of people taking supps to offset accutane damage, but in the end, can't protect yourself 100% from them all because no one really knows how accutane damages us, we're doing alot of guesswork here.

 

However, Accutane is also considered a neurotoxin that can damage your serotonin receptors.  Not sure if protecting your liver can save your from this? Basically means you can have life long mood swings which are just horrible. It all varies from person to person, perhaps reflecting any genetic weaknesses we may already have?

 

Checking this thread is probably a great idea though as whatever works for an accutane suffer to help with dry skin etc is going to work much more effectively on you who doesn't have the same internal damage. Keep your Vitamin D up high as this will keep your skin more flexible/healthier and will definitely help in avoiding that damage from cystic acne, even if it doesn't stop its intensity (though it should help a little, even with that).

 

What works for one person, may not work for you, so don't let your hopes get smashed with each experiment you try. I'd go to the curezone website and try a few of the methods they recommend. Organic Cider Vinegar is very potent on Cystic Acne (if I recall, cystic acne can actually have different causes than normal acne as well)... and I personally have a friend who had massive cystic acne (and got alot of damage from it) and got rid of it eventually using organic cider vinegar. 

 

Good luck.



#3303 MovingOn

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:48 PM

I'm not coming to the forum anymore since it is so sporadic and unrelated to what I am trying to focus on. It's been a pleasure talking with you all! Wishing everyone the best.



#3304 Pianina

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 02:20 AM

I'm very sorry I posted here, people! Just thought I wanted to ask some question specifically of those, who discuss in this thread. Sdro123, please continue coming to the thread, I won't disturb you here!  


Diagnosed with PCOS/Insulin resistance

Currently clear from acne.

Meds:


- Yasmin birth control 
- Spironolactone 50 mg
 
Skincare:

- Paula's Choice

Supplements:

- Innate Response Glucose Tolerance Factor Chromium, for blood sugar balancing 
- Innate Response DysBio-GI, against candida

Extra:

- Peppermint tea 2 cups/day
- Licorice tea 1 cup/day

 


#3305 camaroz28

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 03:09 AM

Pianina, don’t beat yourself up too much. This place is usually bubbling over with terse exchanges. I probably played a bigger part than anyone else. If you want to come back I will leave; I promise I will leave the revolution to the revolutionaries. I have access to the unique straw that often breaks camels’ backs. Recently, she has really wanted to put me in the ground.


"Fret not fellas. I've got a 145 IQ, zen pain tolerance, the resilience of a cockroach, the survival instincts of a rat. I'll win; it's what I do. And then I'll help all of you, forgetting no one; I swear."

 

"I did get some fatigue and minor cramps from taste testing spicy food I was cooking. Even though I didn't swallow and rinsed, the residue got me. This hypersensitivity is annoying."

 

 

Thus spoke Joseph Buchignani.


#3306 MovingOn

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 07:14 AM

.


Edited by MovingOn, 26 June 2013 - 07:37 AM.


#3307 camaroz28

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 07:41 AM

You resent me for many reasons, and jealousy figures in there. I have no attachment to this thread, because it doesn't offer anything anyway other than misinformation.



It is yours (this thread). I am bored to death with it. There is no need for name changes, etc.


"Fret not fellas. I've got a 145 IQ, zen pain tolerance, the resilience of a cockroach, the survival instincts of a rat. I'll win; it's what I do. And then I'll help all of you, forgetting no one; I swear."

 

"I did get some fatigue and minor cramps from taste testing spicy food I was cooking. Even though I didn't swallow and rinsed, the residue got me. This hypersensitivity is annoying."

 

 

Thus spoke Joseph Buchignani.


#3308 and1

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:08 AM

After going through all the past blood work I got done I found out that I have had both elevated IgG and total globulins for a couple of years. According to the following homepage both may point to autoimmune hepatitis. Total globulins are always between 2,9 and 3,1 g/dL and IgG has not exceed 1550 mg/dL so far.

 

This would explain why I am doing so well on UDCA and other liver enhancing supps. 

 

Criteria for Definition.  There are no established diagnostic criteria for drug induced autoimmune hepatitis; however, based upon similarity to idiopathic autoimmune hepatitis the following are important elements in the diagnosis:

  1. Time to onset of 2 months or more
  2. Rash, arthralgias or extrahepatic manifestations
  3. Hepatocellular pattern of serum enzyme elevations (R >5 at onset)
  4. Presence of an autoantibody in titers of 1:80 or greater (ANA, SMA or anti-LKM)
  5. Raised immunoglobulin (IgG >1800 mg/dL) or total globulin levels (>3.0 grams/dL)
  6. Exposure to an agent that is typically associated with drug induced autoimmune hepatitis: nitrofurantoin, methyldopa, minocycline, hydralazine, alpha interferon, beta interferon, cholesterol lowering agents
  7. Liver biopsy showing features of chronic hepatitis with interface hepatitis and prominence of plasma cells
  8. Prompt response to corticosteroid therapy (decrease in ALT levels by half within 2 weeks)
  9. Ultimate resolution upon stopping the medication (and corticosteroid therapy), although resolution may be slow and may call for corticosteroid therapy for several months.

http://www.livertox....types_auto.html


Edited by Believe, 26 June 2013 - 09:48 AM.


#3309 Gladiatoro

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:24 AM

http://www.globalhea...k-thistle-seed/



#3310 and1

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 01:00 PM

Incredible lecture for anybody who wants to try ALA, which is on my list of things to try. ALA is supposed to help with many things like energy, detox, raise glutathion ...

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=o48MgBi44XM

 

For anybody tryning ALA you have to assure yourself of two things according to Dr Berkson:

 

1. It should be sourced from Europe

 

2. Take it with a Vitamin B Complex

 

Berkson himself takes 2 to 3 capsules of ALA each 300 mg a day.

 

_____

 

BTW: I came across this guy after stumbling over http://www.curingcourtney.com/, the mother who wrote the book apparrently relied heavily in the protocol that she developed on the work of Dr. Berkson.

 

_____

 

A little more on Dr. Berkson. He wrote books both on ALA and Vitamin Bs. He was a researcher and worked for the FDA before he got into practicing medicine.

 

I found a thread about somebody who saw Dr. Berkson with crohn's. It gives some insights in his practice and the supplements and brands he recommends: http://www.crohnsfor...ead.php?t=10947


Edited by Believe, 27 June 2013 - 04:25 AM.


#3311 sasquire

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 06:04 PM

Doctors are also prescribing ALA for brain fog symptoms. Interesting.



#3312 oilydave94

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:28 PM

I've asked everyone I knew in real life that took accutane, it was about 10 people and only one of them said they noticed hair loss but it stopped after treatment.

 

I do think some hair shedding is a common side effect, but I think for most, the shedding is so insignificant that it goes unnoticed. 


Edited by dave6677, 26 June 2013 - 09:30 PM.


#3313 goosnargh

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 10:02 AM

How much iodine are you taking?

6.25mg (half an Iodoral). Tried higher, up to 100mg, got Wolff–Chaikoff effect which is a decrease in sodium-iodine symporter (NIS) expression for a few days.
 

NIS may be thought of as a kind of I metabolism master molecule, participating in the anion's translocation from its intestinal absorption to its uptake in the thyroid, lactating breast, salivary glands, and gastric mucosa. In these last two tissues, NIS activity causes I to return to the gastrointestinal lumen, from which the anion, as part of an I conservation system, is again absorbed via NIS in the small intestine.
http://ajpcell.physi...296/4/C654.full

 

NIS is expressed in the thyroid, the salivary glands, gastric mucosa, and the lactating mammary gland. TSH and iodide regulate iodide accumulation by modulating NIS activity via transcriptional and posttranscriptional mechanisms.
http://endo.endojour...150/3/1084.full

 

hNIS transcripts of approximately 4 kb were detected in thyroid gland and parotid gland but not in a broad range of endocrine and nonendocrine tissues. RT-PCR and Southern hybridization revealed hNIS gene expression in thyroid gland, salivary gland, parotid gland, submandibular gland, pituitary gland, pancreas, testis, mammary gland, gastric mucosa, prostate and ovary, adrenal gland, heart, thymus, and lung. By contrast, hNIS transcripts were not detected in normal orbital fibroblasts, colon, and nasopharyngeal mucosa.
http://jcem.endojour...pe2=tf_ipsecsha

 

TSH, however, does not influence NIS expression in extrathyroidal tissues such as mammary gland, salivary gland, and gastric mucosa. [...] The thyroid gland expresses several iodide transporters in addition to NIS, including pendrin, apical iodide transporter, and a predicted iodide-permeable chloride channel (9). Those transporters are expressed on the apical membrane of thyrocytes and are responsible for transport of iodide from thyrocytes into the follicular lumen. Recent in vitro studies, however, revealed that excess expression of those transporters and/or excess concentration of iodide outside of the cells give these transporters the ability to promote iodide influx in monolayer cells.

http://cancerres.aac...t/64/1/415.long

 
Turns out...
 

Treatment of FRTL-5 rat thyroid cells with tRA [all-trans retinoic acid], however, downregulates NIS mRNA. These findings suggest differential regulation of NIS expression by RA in normal and malignant thyroid tissues.
http://erc.endocrino.../3/797.full.pdf

 

In contrast, in nontransformed rat FRTL-5 cells, 1 microM RA downregulated NIS mRNA levels, inhibited the TSH- or forskolin-triggered induction of NIS message after TSH-depletion, and reduced iodide uptake to 38% after 5 d. This divergent RA-responsivity of NIS may provide the means to target radioiodide to thyroid carcinomas by upregulating iodide transport into tumor tissue while simultaneously inhibiting iodide accumulation in normal thyrocytes and may thus re-establish the potential for radioiodide therapy.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....4?dopt=Abstract

 

Refresher: Accutane (isotretinoin aka 13-cis retinoic acid) metabolizes to 4-oxo-isotretinoin, retinoic acid, and 4-oxo-retinoic acid. It's used over all-trans retinoic acid because it's more stable, less toxic and has a longer half-life. It's a cancer drug first and foremost.
 
These studies show RA increases NIS expression in some cancers initially then it decreases. In normal tissue it decreases. I wonder if the length of accutane treatment periods makes epigenetic changes to NIS or RAR/RXR receptor expression. Maybe the high DNA methylation activity causes depletion of it's co-factors (way beyond me). B-12, folate, sam-e, choline support methylation. Vitamin C can repair NIS according to iodine experts. Selenium protects the thyroid from autoimmunity. Magnesium cos everything needs it (mg oxide is useless btw). Water distribution needs iodine and chloride (link).

 

It only contains EPA and DHA, these are two essential fatty acids that the body can synthesize from ALA and plant based omega 3's. It's like for example vitamin A, it comes in the form of carotene and retinol. [...] For people with no sebum post accutane, the basic building blocks of sebum are omega 3 and omega 6, the over use of oleic acid as found in olive oil can mess up the ratio's and acne can result.
 
The first thing i'd take if i had acne would be udo's choice oil and i'd make sure that i avoided fatty meats in favour of chicken

ALA doesn't convert well to DHA (link). Same with beta-carotene to retinol (even less in hypothyroidism) (link).
Chicken has a lot of omega 6. Flax oxidizes easily.

 

In my case all foods with retinol cause problems with me

I found out taking cod liver oil (4000iu retinol palmitate) with vit d3 (say, 5000iu) greatly reduces any reaction. Vit A/D/K2 taken together prevent toxicity (link). Since upping iodine I've tried clo by itself with no problem but I'm still avoiding it for now. Retinoic acid is inflammatory in IBD (link).

 

just an updated. 2 weeks on iodine and i feel amazing...i'm over the hump of draining mucus from my head, and now i can breathe all of a sudden...i smelled nature the other day and it brought me to tears.  I have next to no joint pain and I don't need to drink as much water.  fucking loving life. no negative side effects, but i need to be careful not to overdo it. also, moisture in my skin and eyes! still have scalp issues though. apple cider vinegar has calmed the burning and inflammation though. seeing a derm next month to get a scalp biopsy. smile.png i'll give up my hair for no joint pain. not that vain, but it'd be nice to have hair too.

Awesome biggrin.png We're 2 for 2!
 
The easy answer to hair loss is hypothyroidism (eyebrows thinning?), but it's also a symptom of other potentially related conditions like malabsorption, impaired protein and iron metabolism. Could be bacterial/fungal, in which case apply coconut oil.


 

Incredible lecture for anybody who wants to try ALA

Didn't watch thing but make sure it's R-Alpha Lipoic Acid and cycle it.



#3314 and1

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 10:36 AM

Berkson actually recommends to take a mixture of the R and the S ALA



#3315 goosnargh

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Posted 27 June 2013 - 11:41 AM

yep, stabilized r-ala aka sodium r-alpha lipoic acid



#3316 and1

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 01:37 AM

yep, stabilized r-ala aka sodium r-alpha lipoic acid

 

Berkson says that people should take the ALA that has both the R and the S (synthetic) form, this is the one that has been used successfully for decades, he doesn't recommend only taking the R-ALA. I am going to stick to his advice, I am no biochemist or MD.



#3317 Robert1000

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 05:17 AM

hi guys..........just wanted to let u know that i'm still loosing lots of hair, my scalp is very visible, hair line is completely ruined, receding badly, i cant even go out without hat. :(

Does anyone know if propecia work for accutane hair loss? any real info on that?????

How about minoxidil??? does it work for this type of hair loss??? My whole scalp hair is super thin, dry, very short, and falls like crazy.... i tried minoxidil for a few weeks, with no result, but if u guys know anything about u, please tell me...

Did u find something that really works guys?? anything at all? im so down......



#3318 Gladiatoro

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 06:48 AM

http://www.wisegeek....-neurotoxin.htm



#3319 and1

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 08:21 AM

Dubreuil, et al. from the University of Barcelona have shown that elevated bilirubin and lithocholic acid levels can be detrimental to osteoblast cell function. In normal circumstances, when bile is secreted for fat emulsification the bilirubin within it is converted into a secondary bile acid called ursodeoxycholic acid (UDCA) by commensal (beneficial) bacteria in the gut. (The lithocholic acid is bound by fiber and excreted.*) A healthy balance of gut bacteria promotes this conversion of bilirubin to UDCA, neutralizing the bilirubin's adverse effects on osteoblasts. In other words, when the gut microbes are of the "good" kind, bilirubin is turned into UDCA which simply helps improve the digestion of fats. In dysbiosis, where there is microbial imbalance with an overgrowth of "bad" bacteria in the gut, conversion of bilirubin to UDCA does not take place, bilirubin levels increase in the blood, and osteoblastic bone formation is adversely effected.

http://www.osteonatu...one-health.html



#3320 camaroz28

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Posted 28 June 2013 - 08:14 PM

@MovingOn

 

You missed your chance at the dramatic exit; my post at Panina was 99% legit.; I threw in a small slap at Areola. I know you are a little pissed I turned the sexism charges around; I was just joking.


"Fret not fellas. I've got a 145 IQ, zen pain tolerance, the resilience of a cockroach, the survival instincts of a rat. I'll win; it's what I do. And then I'll help all of you, forgetting no one; I swear."

 

"I did get some fatigue and minor cramps from taste testing spicy food I was cooking. Even though I didn't swallow and rinsed, the residue got me. This hypersensitivity is annoying."

 

 

Thus spoke Joseph Buchignani.





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