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Repairing the long-term damage from Accutane

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#2721 sbowlchica

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 10:58 AM

Your adrenal glands produce DHEA! High DHEA can be a sign of Poly Cystic Ovarian Syndrome, Tumor on the Hypothalamus/adrenals or some type of adrenal dysfunction /disorder like hyperplasisa (?) Cushing's usually is both high cortisol & DHEA.  Some with Thyroid disorders and soo on.....

 

What other labs or work up have they done, or let me guess they are blowing off the high DHEA levels????

 

Nope, I got an ultrasound two days ago to check for PCOS. I really don't think I have it, since my periods, weight, cholesterol, etc... are all normal. The only symptoms I would have are hair loss, excess facial/body hair, and hormonal acne.

 

I'll know in two weeks if I have PCOS. If I don't, I have a feeling they're going to put me on spiro, which I've done a good amount of research on.



Recovering from Accutane-related hair loss.

(over a year and a half after stopping...)


#2722 LillyRose7

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 01:04 PM

dhea is not bad in the regular amounts. It regulates many things, and plays an important role in your hair/skin and sex drive etc. But if its out of range in females it can cause issues. I had high DHEA in my blood tests due to pcos, was put on metformin by my endo, she said it would lower it but then my acne got WORSE and i read that metformin can INCREASE DHEA  which is why my acne was getting bad.

 

I took some saw palmetto and it did help lower it from 557 to 273 in 3 months. I am now off the metformin but i take BCP.

 

If females have high DHEA its not good for the skin, you can also test for andrenal hyperplasia but it has to be WAYYYY off the endo said, like, in the 3000+ range.



#2723 Gladiatoro

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 05:17 PM

Your adrenal glands produce DHEA! High DHEA can be a sign of Poly Cystic Ovarian Syndrome, Tumor on the Hypothalamus/adrenals or some type of adrenal dysfunction /disorder like hyperplasisa (?) Cushing's usually is both high cortisol & DHEA.  Some with Thyroid disorders and soo on.....

 

What other labs or work up have they done, or let me guess they are blowing off the high DHEA levels????

 

Nope, I got an ultrasound two days ago to check for PCOS. I really don't think I have it, since my periods, weight, cholesterol, etc... are all normal. The only symptoms I would have are hair loss, excess facial/body hair, and hormonal acne.

 

I'll know in two weeks if I have PCOS. If I don't, I have a feeling they're going to put me on spiro, which I've done a good amount of research on.

Regarding  cholesterol read this , it' not cholesterol we have to worry about rather inflammation.

 

http://www.naturalne...ealth_diet.html



#2724 Gladiatoro

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 05:32 PM

dhea is not bad in the regular amounts. It regulates many things, and plays an important role in your hair/skin and sex drive etc. But if its out of range in females it can cause issues. I had high DHEA in my blood tests due to pcos, was put on metformin by my endo, she said it would lower it but then my acne got WORSE and i read that metformin can INCREASE DHEA  which is why my acne was getting bad.

 

I took some saw palmetto and it did help lower it from 557 to 273 in 3 months. I am now off the metformin but i take BCP.

 

If females have high DHEA its not good for the skin, you can also test for andrenal hyperplasia but it has to be WAYYYY off the endo said, like, in the 3000+ range.

So the saw palmetto helped lower it form 557 to 273 in three months wow that is great .  I cycle it once per year and usually take it for a couple of

 

months , it has done wonders for my hair loss.



#2725 sbowlchica

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 07:23 PM

Well, I connected the dots as to why going low oxalate may be helping me.

High DHEA = higher sensitivity to oxalates. There have been studies.

I don't think the dietary changes are enough, though... I want to try dexamethasone to lower my levels.

All over the internet, people with high DHEA have tried it and their levels have dropped and their hair loss has gone away...



Recovering from Accutane-related hair loss.

(over a year and a half after stopping...)


#2726 oli girl

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 09:39 PM

I have low cortisol/ high DHEA, but I'm not sure really what that indicates.

This was from my test over a year ago.

If it was a tumour, it didn't kill me yet wink.png


Another piece to add to the puzzle.

Low cortisol and high DHEA can be related to hypothyroid and or adrenal fatigue, in which hypothyroid causes adrenal fatigue


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The Buddha

#2727 LillyRose7

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 04:52 AM

my only symptoms of pcos was hormonal acne, slightly irregular periods, used to be over weight, and cysts on ovaries on scan and imbalanced LH:FSH ratio.

 

I never had anything else, no raised cholesterol etc. I still suffer the symptoms, and i lost a lot of weight, my waist measures in at 24 and i still had the symptoms so i take the pill. There are a lot of slim ppl with it too.



#2728 LillyRose7

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 12:17 AM

i think if you have low cortisol and too high dhea it means your adrenals are stressed and you are basically very stressed out. Low cortisol can make you feel depressed also. basically the adrenals are tired out.



#2729 sbowlchica

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:32 AM

Apparently melatonin, magnesium, taurine, msm, and vitamin c help increase dhea. well, that's just peachy. No wonder I've had all this insomnia and increase in hair loss... one size does not fit all.


Edited by sbowlchica, 09 April 2013 - 03:33 AM.


Recovering from Accutane-related hair loss.

(over a year and a half after stopping...)


#2730 Livetoregret

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  • Interests:finished taking Roaccutane December 2010.
    Takin this drug has been the worst decision I have ever made and I have regretted it every day since.
    Doseage: 60:40 mg alternating daily for 11/12 months
    Sideffects:None till course was over.
    Now - SEVERE dry/brittle hair.
    HAIRLOSS - lost at least 70% and continues...acne came back in July, worse than I ever suffered from it. I now have back, chest, neck & cheeks that are covered.
    So now Im bone dry with no natural hydration with horrific acne. As a 31 YO woman with now destroyed skin & hair.
    My side effects include: Chronic Dry mouth
    Severe dry,tight,dehydrated, ashy,mottled,discolored (yellow & red),wrinkled,scarred poorly healing skin
    Facial fat atrophy - fatloss. Hollow eyes & cheeks
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Posted 09 April 2013 - 04:35 AM

How bad is your hairloss at this point?
Is your hair completely dead and drive out also?
Is it regrouping at all and are the new hairs finer and un pigmented?

#2731 bamdaze

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 09:31 AM

My DHEA is elevated as well, a bit over 1000. Adrenal/pituitary gland malfunction might cause that. Worth checking out.

 

Thyroid was next on my list and turns out I have seronegative (no elevated antibodies) hashimoto thyroiditis. A sonogram is necessary for this diagnosis, blood levels don't suffice. Started taking low dose thyroxin today. I'll see how that goes.. if it doesn't work, then I'll check adrenals/pituitary gland and probably take hydrocortisone and/or try rhodiola&ashwaganda.

 

I'm also seeing a kinesiologist but not 100% sure that's legit ;)



#2732 sbowlchica

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 03:10 PM

How bad is your hairloss at this point?
Is your hair completely dead and drive out also?
Is it regrouping at all and are the new hairs finer and un pigmented?

Well... it's hit and miss. I have some good days where I only lose a couple of hairs (like I used to!) and some days where it's bad. Not really clumps anymore, but a fair amount. I haven't been counting hairs. It's all in the dumping process of going low oxalate: my body is expelling the stored oxalate. Cutting out these supplements may help me-- I only just learned about that this morning. So many pieces to the puzzle!

 

My hair's getting thinner and thinner... I kind of want to cut it off to pixie again. I've noticed regrowth around my forehead under my bangs-- hairs that are a little finer than normal, but my natural color. I'm not really seeing any baby hairs/vellus hairs/transparent hairs. I'm lucky for that.

 

Now I've just got to keep on with the low oxalate and wait the 2 weeks until the doctor puts me on something that will help me...



Recovering from Accutane-related hair loss.

(over a year and a half after stopping...)


#2733 oli girl

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 08:16 PM

Well expect more to pop up on this thread! They just approved and new generic will be hitting the U.S. Market! http://technews.tmcn.../29/7025846.htm


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#2734 Gladiatoro

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 10:54 PM

Well expect more to pop up on this thread! They just approved and new generic will be hitting the U.S. Market! http://technews.tmcn.../29/7025846.htm

Zenatane a fancy name for POISON , er chemotherapy , Big Pharma has to make more money I guess , there handing this stuff out to

 

teenagers and young adults like candy ,  due to our

 

diligence not so many will  take isotretinoin now , the word is out , I don't think any of us had cancer hmmm....

 

I read a study a while back asking doctors themselves in the U.K if they or a family member had cancer

 

would they opt for chemotherapy a amazing 75% said they would not take chemo to treat there cancer. And treat there cancer with

 

alternative methods ,  I guess the docs know how toxic chemotherapy is to the body .

 

here is the definition of Chemotherapy.

 

Chemotherapy (often abbreviated to chemo) is the treatment of cancer with one or more cytotoxic antineoplastic drugs ("chemotherapeutic agents") as part of a standardized regimen. Chemotherapy may be given with a curative intent or it may aim to prolong life or to palliate symptoms. It is often used in conjunction with other cancer treatments, such as radiation therapy or surgery. Certain chemotherapeutic agents also have a role in the treatment of other conditions, including ankylosing spondylitis, multiple sclerosis, Crohn's disease, psoriasis, psoriatic arthritis, systemic lupus erythematosus, rheumatoid arthritis, and scleroderma.

Traditional chemotherapeutic agents act by killing cells that divide rapidly, one of the main properties of most cancer cells. This means that chemotherapy also harms cells that divide rapidly under normal circumstances: cells in the bone marrow, digestive tract, and hair follicles. This results in the most common side-effects of chemotherapy: myelosuppression (decreased production of blood cells, hence also immunosuppression), mucositis (inflammation of the lining of the digestive tract), and alopecia (hair loss).


Edited by gladiatoro, 09 April 2013 - 10:55 PM.


#2735 sbowlchica

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Posted 10 April 2013 - 02:13 PM

@Livetoregret, here's a picture of my hair changes over the past month:

 

http://www.acne.org/...-vs-april-2013/


Edited by sbowlchica, 10 April 2013 - 02:13 PM.


Recovering from Accutane-related hair loss.

(over a year and a half after stopping...)


#2736 Roland1968

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 03:39 AM

Here is a scientific article about the isotretinoin mechanism. I came across this section:

 

"In fact, all isotretinoin-mediated effects on sebocyte apoptosis, sebaceous lipogenesis, anti-inflammatory activity, downregulation of ROS can be explained by upregulation of nuclear levels of FoxO transcription factors. All isotretinoin-induced adverse effect on hepatic glucose and lipid metabolism, retinoid-induced dyslipoproteinemia, loss of bone density, myotoxic effects, mucocutaneous side effects, adverse psychiatric effects, chemopreventive effects and isotretinoin's teratogenicity appear to result from a common mechanism, i.e., FoxO-mediated changes of gene expression. In contrast, increased insulin/IGF-1 signaling of puberty and western diet due to high glycemic load and consumption of insulinotropic milk and milk products downregulates nuclear FoxO levels and thus promotes the development of acne."

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3219165/

 

So in my own words: Isotretinoin upregulates FoxO transcription factors. A high glycemic load and milk products downregulates nuclear FoxO levels. Would this mean, that the consumption of milk, milk products would help to overcome the longterm ISO side effects? Can it be so simple?



#2737 Gladiatoro

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:25 AM

Here is a scientific article about the isotretinoin mechanism. I came across this section:

 

"In fact, all isotretinoin-mediated effects on sebocyte apoptosis, sebaceous lipogenesis, anti-inflammatory activity, downregulation of ROS can be explained by upregulation of nuclear levels of FoxO transcription factors. All isotretinoin-induced adverse effect on hepatic glucose and lipid metabolism, retinoid-induced dyslipoproteinemia, loss of bone density, myotoxic effects, mucocutaneous side effects, adverse psychiatric effects, chemopreventive effects and isotretinoin's teratogenicity appear to result from a common mechanism, i.e., FoxO-mediated changes of gene expression. In contrast, increased insulin/IGF-1 signaling of puberty and western diet due to high glycemic load and consumption of insulinotropic milk and milk products downregulates nuclear FoxO levels and thus promotes the development of acne."

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3219165/

 

So in my own words: Isotretinoin upregulates FoxO transcription factors. A high glycemic load and milk products downregulates nuclear FoxO levels. Would this mean, that the consumption of milk, milk products would help to overcome the longterm ISO side effects? Can it be so simple?

Another piece of the puzzle , thanks for the info.



#2738 camaroz28

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 09:40 PM

Another piece of the puzzle , thanks for the info.

That info. has been out for almost 2 years already; it also has been discussed here. I guess you were too busy extolling the virtues of Saw Palmetto.


Edited by camaroz28, 12 April 2013 - 09:45 PM.

"Fret not fellas. I've got a 145 IQ, zen pain tolerance, the resilience of a cockroach, the survival instincts of a rat. I'll win; it's what I do. And then I'll help all of you, forgetting no one; I swear."

 

"I did get some fatigue and minor cramps from taste testing spicy food I was cooking. Even though I didn't swallow and rinsed, the residue got me. This hypersensitivity is annoying."

 

 

Thus spoke Joseph Buchignani.


#2739 JosephBuchignani

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 09:27 AM

Here is a scientific article about the isotretinoin mechanism. I came across this section:

 

"In fact, all isotretinoin-mediated effects on sebocyte apoptosis, sebaceous lipogenesis, anti-inflammatory activity, downregulation of ROS can be explained by upregulation of nuclear levels of FoxO transcription factors. All isotretinoin-induced adverse effect on hepatic glucose and lipid metabolism, retinoid-induced dyslipoproteinemia, loss of bone density, myotoxic effects, mucocutaneous side effects, adverse psychiatric effects, chemopreventive effects and isotretinoin's teratogenicity appear to result from a common mechanism, i.e., FoxO-mediated changes of gene expression. In contrast, increased insulin/IGF-1 signaling of puberty and western diet due to high glycemic load and consumption of insulinotropic milk and milk products downregulates nuclear FoxO levels and thus promotes the development of acne."

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3219165/

 

So in my own words: Isotretinoin upregulates FoxO transcription factors. A high glycemic load and milk products downregulates nuclear FoxO levels. Would this mean, that the consumption of milk, milk products would help to overcome the longterm ISO side effects? Can it be so simple?

 

 

That would tend to explain why a yoghurt + meat diet is the only way I can survive. 
 
I'm functional, social outings and tutoring engagements lined up for next week. Had to add back in scallops after hitting micronutrient deficiency (too dizzy to stand for most of day), but the scallops straightened that right out. No gut rejection reaction to them. So 1L yoghurt + free range low fat meat + 5 quarter-sized scallops per day is my formula. Plus UDCA. Not even taking digestive enzymes now. And smoking of course, which upregulates glutathione, but nobody wants to hear about that. 
 
Next experiment, trying skim milk to see if I can make further gains. Right now I'm just "ok" most of the time. Not superman, healthwise. But it's a consistent "ok". Keeping on top of my work and self tracking. Which is a huge improvement. 

Accutane - Brief low-dose course ~9 years ago for ~4 months. Liver monitored, no sides. 
 
Symptoms: Gradual onset of symptoms, peaking ~5 years ago. Extreme IBS, lost ability to eat almost everything, unable to work for 4 years. IBD diagnosis might've been possible, but avoided doctors and the prescription meds route, going for diet and supplements instead. Thought it was regular IBS, didn't realize it was Accutane until already had avoided the IBD diagnosis. Decided going back to hell just to get the diagnosis wasn't worth it. Regained enough health to work full time around May-June 2013. 
 
Regimen summary:
Eat only 
1. true free range lean chicken breast (expensive)
2. Lean white-tail shrimp (moderately expensive)
3. Glutinous rice gruel (very cheap)
 
All ad libitum, minimum 150g shrimp/d. 
 
Supplements:
1. Blue Ice CLO / Butter Oil blend
2. Udca ~1-3g /d
3. Source Naturals Essential enzymes 2x per meal
4. Symbiotics Colostrum ~1/8 scoop per meal
5. Cycled topical testosterone cream
6. Topical ACV, tea tree oil (morning) and benzoyle peroxide 10% (night)
 
Zeitgeibers:
1. Aim to nap every 3 hours for 20 minutes
2. Match light exposure to sunrise, sunset
3. Match meals to sun

 


#2740 Gladiatoro

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 08:43 PM

Here is a scientific article about the isotretinoin mechanism. I came across this section:

 

"In fact, all isotretinoin-mediated effects on sebocyte apoptosis, sebaceous lipogenesis, anti-inflammatory activity, downregulation of ROS can be explained by upregulation of nuclear levels of FoxO transcription factors. All isotretinoin-induced adverse effect on hepatic glucose and lipid metabolism, retinoid-induced dyslipoproteinemia, loss of bone density, myotoxic effects, mucocutaneous side effects, adverse psychiatric effects, chemopreventive effects and isotretinoin's teratogenicity appear to result from a common mechanism, i.e., FoxO-mediated changes of gene expression. In contrast, increased insulin/IGF-1 signaling of puberty and western diet due to high glycemic load and consumption of insulinotropic milk and milk products downregulates nuclear FoxO levels and thus promotes the development of acne."

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3219165/

 

So in my own words: Isotretinoin upregulates FoxO transcription factors. A high glycemic load and milk products downregulates nuclear FoxO levels. Would this mean, that the consumption of milk, milk products would help to overcome the longterm ISO side effects? Can it be so simple?

 

 

That would tend to explain why a yoghurt + meat diet is the only way I can survive. 
 
I'm functional, social outings and tutoring engagements lined up for next week. Had to add back in scallops after hitting micronutrient deficiency (too dizzy to stand for most of day), but the scallops straightened that right out. No gut rejection reaction to them. So 1L yoghurt + free range low fat meat + 5 quarter-sized scallops per day is my formula. Plus UDCA. Not even taking digestive enzymes now. And smoking of course, which upregulates glutathione, but nobody wants to hear about that. 
 
Next experiment, trying skim milk to see if I can make further gains. Right now I'm just "ok" most of the time. Not superman, healthwise. But it's a consistent "ok". Keeping on top of my work and self tracking. Which is a huge improvement. 

Just wondering Joseph how many mg total did you take of the poison????






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