IndigoRush

Repairing the long-term damage from Accutane

11,038 posts in this topic

You dont understand epigenetics then. There is no "done" damage. Epigenetic changes arent permanent in any way. There needs to be an ACTIVE suppressor of the gene....otherwise, it would default back to our original DNA blueprint. your DNA never changes. My "little" manganese is the mineral that activates the enzyme to glucuordinate retinoid metabolites out of the body.

How is your gene currently being silenced if there is nothing( accutane metabolite) to silence it???

Plus, if you believe in hardcore epigenetic changes, you would be taking the methylating B vitamins

  • As there is a significant amount of manganese in the pituitary gland, where sex hormones are manufactured, it is known to play a part in sexual function.
IGF-1 and manganese http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=r1hq62uJGKcC&oi=fnd&pg=PA89&dq=igf1+and+manganese&ots=lT9b08_QBB&sig=wdo90RrGxAkiDRJQWR69zhJzuo4#v=onepage&q=igf1%20and%20manganese&f=false

You have a skewed perspective of epigenetics bro.

Understanding is as easy as googling:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics

Alterations CAN be permanent and there does not have to be a factor actively suppressing trasncription. What about DNA methylation and chromatin modifications, which could easily explain long-term side effects without the drug still being present? I guess it's just easier to believe that flushing something out that there is no valid reason to believe is still present will lead to a solution.

Epigenetic alterations being passed-down through family lines:

http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/features/142195/beyond-dna-epigenetics

http://www.popsci.com/article/science/how-nutrition-one-generation-can-change-genetics-next

Duul said he was prescribed HGH because of a pre-existing pituitary hormone deficiency, not because of anything Accutane may have done. Sounds like a responsibly prescribed treatement, eh? WTF does manganese have to do with his particular case.

Hey Dull, did your doctors think the pituitary deficiency had anything to do with the Chiari malformation?

Did you have any deficiencies of FSH/LH, ACTH, or TSH along with low GH levels?

I will dig through my old medical records tonight and see if I can find some numbers.

I believe my friend it's all related. The doctors never could come to an exact conclusion.


My Accutane Story:

Accutane is Chemotherapy marketed as an Acne drug.

Used to treat cancers in all parts of the body including the brain.

That is Criminal.


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Whoops, looks like the original link was bad:

The 5ARI Withdrawal Syndrome:

http://www.protocol-online.org/forums/uploads/monthly_08_2010/msg-19273-027408800%201282061244.ipb

I will dig through my old medical records tonight and see if I can find some numbers.

I believe my friend it's all related. The doctors never could come to an exact conclusion.

If Accutane caused you any sexual symptoms you would most likely know it. For most of us with sexual symptoms, it goes from having a fully charged sex drive, being fully functional and ready to go at any moment, to having numb broken-down genitals and almost an absent libido in a relatively short time frame during or soon after taking Accutane. Suicidal depression and/or wiped-out emotions often accompany this. It's shocking and terrifying. If you think it boils down to aging in your case, then it may be so.

There are no conventional tests available for androgen-receptor levels either. Not sure why it's such a big deal to take a small tissue sample to perform molecular testing, but it is. That seems to be one of the huge hurdles we face. No matter what exactly Accutane did to us, very little has been determined from blood tests, and the types of tests we would need to show changes in gene expression or epigenetic markers are not performed outside of a research setting.

Edited by Dubya_B

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You dont understand epigenetics then. There is no "done" damage. Epigenetic changes arent permanent in any way. There needs to be an ACTIVE suppressor of the gene....otherwise, it would default back to our original DNA blueprint. your DNA never changes. My "little" manganese is the mineral that activates the enzyme to glucuordinate retinoid metabolites out of the body.

How is your gene currently being silenced if there is nothing( accutane metabolite) to silence it???

Plus, if you believe in hardcore epigenetic changes, you would be taking the methylating B vitamins

  • As there is a significant amount of manganese in the pituitary gland, where sex hormones are manufactured, it is known to play a part in sexual function.
IGF-1 and manganese http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=r1hq62uJGKcC&oi=fnd&pg=PA89&dq=igf1+and+manganese&ots=lT9b08_QBB&sig=wdo90RrGxAkiDRJQWR69zhJzuo4#v=onepage&q=igf1%20and%20manganese&f=false

You have a skewed perspective of epigenetics bro.

Understanding is as easy as googling:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics

Alterations CAN be permanent and there does not have to be a factor actively suppressing trasncription. What about DNA methylation and chromatin modifications, which could easily explain long-term side effects without the drug still being present? I guess it's just easier to believe that flushing something out that there is no valid reason to believe is still present will lead to a solution.

Epigenetic alterations being passed-down through family lines:

http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/features/142195/beyond-dna-epigenetics

http://www.popsci.com/article/science/how-nutrition-one-generation-can-change-genetics-next

Duul said he was prescribed HGH because of a pre-existing pituitary hormone deficiency, not because of anything Accutane may have done. Sounds like a responsibly prescribed treatement, eh? WTF does manganese have to do with his particular case.

Hey Dull, did your doctors think the pituitary deficiency had anything to do with the Chiari malformation?

Did you have any deficiencies of FSH/LH, ACTH, or TSH along with low GH levels?

I will dig through my old medical records tonight and see if I can find some numbers.

I believe my friend it's all related. The doctors never could come to an exact conclusion.

i dont see anything in my statement that wasnt correct?

epi- (Greek: επί- over, outside of, around)

epigenetics is the study of cellular and physiological traits that are heritable by daughter cells and not caused by changes in the DNA sequence

Gene expression can be controlled through the action of repressor proteins that attach tosilencer regions of the DNA. These epigenetic changes may last through cell divisions for the duration of the cell's life, and may also last for multiple generations even though they do not involve changes in the underlyingDNA sequence of the organism;[4] instead, non-genetic factors cause the organism's genes to behave (or "express themselves") differently.

repressor proteins:

If an inducer, a molecule that initiates the gene expression, is present, then it can interact with the repressor protein and detach it from the operator. RNA polymerase then can transcribe the message (expressing the gene)

Im sorry to be blunt...but as far as Duul's case... he takes prescribed HGH (because we all know prescriptions from doctors make it all good) , has this prescription make his face so bad, it makes him take the chemo drug accutane... now come full circle, to think taking HGH again will solve all of the problems?! that is beyond any logic i see. Maybe that doctor, instead of just prescribing HGH, shouldve found out why he why low in HGH to begin with,,, then he wouldve never even heard of accutane.

.....

http://www.dcnutrition.com/Minerals/detail.cfm?RecordNumber=80

Manganese, as a specific activator of glycosyltransferases, may also affect glycosylation of glycoproteins on cell membranes including receptors. This would alter receptor composition and structural properties and affect lipoprotein binding and their ultimate metabolic fate.

Modulation by all-trans retinoic acid of glycoprotein glycosylation in murine melanoma cells: enhancement of fucosyl- and galactosyltransferase activities.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2110861

Edited by tryingtohelp2014

If you have a majority of the following: Joint pain,Brain fog,lethargy,high bilirubin,dry skin, night-blindness, sweat easily, thin easily damaged skin, poor wound healing, dry brittle hair..... Please get a RBC copper, ceruloplasmin, plasma copper,  RBC zinc and a Vitamin D test ASAP


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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CF0QFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mdpi.com%2F2079-7737%2F3%2F3%2F484%2Fpdf&ei=VjyOVMPpFpWcyQTr-4CADA&usg=AFQjCNEwVNpYcGTHwFmParK7SxjKsRnpSw&sig2=2JXLNMmar89u9yBuydoLSg

Epigenetic chromatin modifications and protein or lipid glycosylation, although profoundly
different from the mechanistic point of view, share important key features. First of all, they are both
the product of non-deterministic processes. DNA methylation and histone methylation/acetylation
depend on the relative abundance of the enzymes adding or removing methyl and acetyl groups,
and glycosylation depends on that of enzymes adding or removing sugar residues. Second, both
processes are reversible, although usually very stable.
In many biochemical pathways, the "on" or "off" signals involve the phosphorylation or dephosphorlation of polypeptides by kinases and phosphatases.
Edited by tryingtohelp2014

If you have a majority of the following: Joint pain,Brain fog,lethargy,high bilirubin,dry skin, night-blindness, sweat easily, thin easily damaged skin, poor wound healing, dry brittle hair..... Please get a RBC copper, ceruloplasmin, plasma copper,  RBC zinc and a Vitamin D test ASAP


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@tryingtohelp

You dont understand epigenetics then. There is no "done" damage. Epigenetic changes arent permanent in any way. There needs to be an ACTIVE suppressor of the gene....otherwise, it would default back to our original DNA blueprint. your DNA never changes. My "little" manganese is the mineral that activates the enzyme to glucuordinate retinoid metabolites out of the body.

How is your gene currently being silenced if there is nothing( accutane metabolite) to silence it???

Plus, if you believe in hardcore epigenetic changes, you would be taking the methylating B vitamins

Implying that Accutane or a metabolite of Accutane must be present to alter gene expression is incorrect in the context of the wikipedia article quoted. This would not be considered an epigentic alteration, but an active modulator of gene expression.

The offending substance does not need to be present for the gene to be silenced. ..."The damage is done," so to speak.

Is there a way to correct it? Maybe. Is taking B-vitamins that may promote methylation going to correct it? Who knows.

That's assuming hypomethylation of a gene or genes is the underlying problem.

And in Duul's case, supplementing a natural hormone that he is lacking due to a structural abnormality sounds like a good idea.

Edited by Dubya_B

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@tryingtohelp

You dont understand epigenetics then. There is no "done" damage. Epigenetic changes arent permanent in any way. There needs to be an ACTIVE suppressor of the gene....otherwise, it would default back to our original DNA blueprint. your DNA never changes. My "little" manganese is the mineral that activates the enzyme to glucuordinate retinoid metabolites out of the body.

How is your gene currently being silenced if there is nothing( accutane metabolite) to silence it???

Plus, if you believe in hardcore epigenetic changes, you would be taking the methylating B vitamins

Implying that Accutane or a metabolite of Accutane must be present to alter gene expression is incorrect in the context of the wikipedia article quoted. This would not be considered an epigentic alteration, but an active modulator of gene expression.

The offending substance does not need to be present for the gene to be silenced. ..."The damage is done," so to speak.

Is there a way to correct it? Maybe. Is taking B-vitamins that may promote methylation going to correct it? Who knows.

That's assuming hypomethylation of a gene or genes is the underlying problem.

And in Duul's case, supplementing a natural hormone that he is lacking due to a structural abnormality sounds like a good idea.

But if there is a permanent damage, how come people feel/are cured when they are fasting for example?

It sounds to me you gave up fighting and trying to convince everyone its permanent.

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Also I think our bodies are VERY dehydrated. Make sure to drink 6 - 8 oz glasses of Reverse Osmosis water throughout the day.

Just drinking more water cleared my Dry Eye symptoms. Not kidding you.

what makes us more dehydrated than a normal person???????????? what makes our bodies not hold onto/lose water content?

reading this just makes me sigh. i can only help so much. where is that eye doctor/lymph guy annoy when you need him?

@tryingtohelp

You dont understand epigenetics then. There is no "done" damage. Epigenetic changes arent permanent in any way. There needs to be an ACTIVE suppressor of the gene....otherwise, it would default back to our original DNA blueprint. your DNA never changes. My "little" manganese is the mineral that activates the enzyme to glucuordinate retinoid metabolites out of the body.

How is your gene currently being silenced if there is nothing( accutane metabolite) to silence it???

Plus, if you believe in hardcore epigenetic changes, you would be taking the methylating B vitamins

Implying that Accutane or a metabolite of Accutane must be present to alter gene expression is incorrect in the context of the wikipedia article quoted. This would not be considered an epigentic alteration, but an active modulator of gene expression.

The offending substance does not need to be present for the gene to be silenced. ..."The damage is done," so to speak.

Is there a way to correct it? Maybe. Is taking B-vitamins that may promote methylation going to correct it? Who knows.

That's assuming hypomethylation of a gene or genes is the underlying problem.

And in Duul's case, supplementing a natural hormone that he is lacking due to a structural abnormality sounds like a good idea.

Answer me one question....

What is the "inducer" in the epigenetic equation?!

Edited by tryingtohelp2014

If you have a majority of the following: Joint pain,Brain fog,lethargy,high bilirubin,dry skin, night-blindness, sweat easily, thin easily damaged skin, poor wound healing, dry brittle hair..... Please get a RBC copper, ceruloplasmin, plasma copper,  RBC zinc and a Vitamin D test ASAP


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Whoops, looks like the original link was bad:

The 5ARI Withdrawal Syndrome:

http://www.protocol-online.org/forums/uploads/monthly_08_2010/msg-19273-027408800 1282061244.ipb

I will dig through my old medical records tonight and see if I can find some numbers.

I believe my friend it's all related. The doctors never could come to an exact conclusion.

If Accutane caused you any sexual symptoms you would most likely know it. For most of us with sexual symptoms, it goes from having a fully charged sex drive, being fully functional and ready to go at any moment, to having numb broken-down genitals and almost an absent libido in a relatively short time frame during or soon after taking Accutane. Suicidal depression and/or wiped-out emotions often accompany this. It's shocking and terrifying. If you think it boils down to aging in your case, then it may be so.

There are no conventional tests available for androgen-receptor levels either. Not sure why it's such a big deal to take a small tissue sample to perform molecular testing, but it is. That seems to be one of the huge hurdles we face. No matter what exactly Accutane did to us, very little has been determined from blood tests, and the types of tests we would need to show changes in gene expression or epigenetic markers are not performed outside of a research setting.

Hey Dubya,

Now there is a strong theory that it is "estrogen dominance" what we are experiencing (those who has ED issues).

Have you tried to balance your hormones? (Hrt with AI maybe?) or do you know someone who succeded with hormonal balance?

Or do you know anybody who fully recovered from sexual problems includin shrinkage and numbness?

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This paper shows accutane might work by basically killing the sebocytes ...and they made a correlation to another synthetic retinoid, Fenretinide, which does the same thing by elevating ROS. We know accutane elevates ROS. We know mnSOD is a main cell protector against ROS
could we arrest the effects of accutane by upregulating mnSOD(taking manganese), thereby protecting the sebocyte from ROS induced cell death? would this get our oil glands to work again?
The 4-oxo metabolites of retinoids have
been shown to be functionally active in human keratinocytes and fibroblasts by their ability to
induce changes in gene expression (Baron, et al., 2005). Our data show that RAR panantagonist
AGN 193109 sufficiently blocks RAR activation in the presence of 13-cis RA as
measured by a significant decrease in TIG1 gene expression, yet does not block apoptosis
induced by 13-cis RA in SEB-1 sebocytes, thus supporting the hypothesis that apoptosis
induction via 13-cis RA is independent of RAR activation. Alternatively, apoptosis maybe 58
mediated through RXR nuclear receptor activation (Zhao et al, 2004). Using RXR pan-agonist,
CD 3254, at a concentration of 50 µM, a significant increase in the percentage of TUNELpositive
SEB-1 was noted at 72 hours. Although our HPLC data indicate very low levels of 9-cis
RA (a maximum of 12 ng/mL at 72 hours), RXR activation by 9-cis RA is possible (Allenby, et
al., 1993) or 13-cis RA may be metabolized to another as yet unidentified metabolite that is
capable of RXR activation.
Alternatively, 13-cis RA may have effects that are independent of retinoid receptors.
Interestingly, we showed that fenretinide; a synthetic retinoid known to induce apoptosis by
primarily, RAR- and RXR-independent means is able to induce significant apoptosis in our SEB-
1 sebocytes. In fact, the degree of apoptosis induced by fenretinide at 48 hours is very similar to
that observed with 13-cis RA treatment at 72 hours. Fenretinide induces apoptosis by elevating
reactive oxygen species (ROS), and increases in activation of ceramide and caspases (Wu, et al.,
2001). In addition, a retinoid-related molecule, AGN 193198 induces apoptosis without
activation of the classical retinoid receptors (Balasubramanian et al, 2005; Keedwell, et al.,
2004). It is possible that 13-cis RA acts similarly to fenretinide or AGN 193198 via receptorindependent
mechanisms;
Edited by tryingtohelp2014

If you have a majority of the following: Joint pain,Brain fog,lethargy,high bilirubin,dry skin, night-blindness, sweat easily, thin easily damaged skin, poor wound healing, dry brittle hair..... Please get a RBC copper, ceruloplasmin, plasma copper,  RBC zinc and a Vitamin D test ASAP


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Whoops, looks like the original link was bad:

The 5ARI Withdrawal Syndrome:

http://www.protocol-online.org/forums/uploads/monthly_08_2010/msg-19273-027408800%201282061244.ipb

I will dig through my old medical records tonight and see if I can find some numbers.

I believe my friend it's all related. The doctors never could come to an exact conclusion.

If Accutane caused you any sexual symptoms you would most likely know it. For most of us with sexual symptoms, it goes from having a fully charged sex drive, being fully functional and ready to go at any moment, to having numb broken-down genitals and almost an absent libido in a relatively short time frame during or soon after taking Accutane. Suicidal depression and/or wiped-out emotions often accompany this. It's shocking and terrifying. If you think it boils down to aging in your case, then it may be so.

There are no conventional tests available for androgen-receptor levels either. Not sure why it's such a big deal to take a small tissue sample to perform molecular testing, but it is. That seems to be one of the huge hurdles we face. No matter what exactly Accutane did to us, very little has been determined from blood tests, and the types of tests we would need to show changes in gene expression or epigenetic markers are not performed outside of a research setting.

Being functional at any moment? I need a lot more stimulation then before accutane. No numbness. Now if I drink alcohol forget it, Nothing going to happen that night. Wiped out emotions? Not so much. I have a couple of videos recorded after accutane before college, personality was perfectly fine. I was so fucking happy to stop taking the drug.

I have tried abstaining from masturbating which has helped quite a bit. So perhaps I dodged a bullet there.

Had a ultrasound of my testicles, nothing wrong there. It's all BRAIN related. Accutane does pass the blood-brain barrier.

The reason I quit accutane early was because of a suicide attempt and right knee pain. (just had a MRI done of my right knee few days ago, will let you know what's up)

I remember the day I quit accutane. I went to college and was having horrible right knee pain, felt like an old man being so tired!!! Later that night I had such dread and sorrow I remember holding the chefs knife in front of my stomach ready to go right through myself. I held the knife in front of me for about 3 minutes. I stopped and that's the day I threw all the pills in the garbage. The derm was like "You got 4 months to go tho!!!!!". Me: "uhhh no, and my scalp acne is gone so."

I probably could have took a month of Accucrap, Roaccutrainwreck, Isotrap, 13-creepacid, Roche infested (let's call them what they are Roach.) ROACH infested demonic CHEMO DRUG. Which is FUCKING CRIMINAL to market it as an ACNE DRUG.

I MEAN LOOK even the judges are corrupt! : http://www.law360.com/articles/584321/4-accutane-suits-against-roche-filed-too-late-judge-rules

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-04/roche-wins-reversal-of-2-million-accutane-trial-verdict.html

Anyways back to Androgen Receptors... Even if we could biopsy a part of our back and say their is a deficiency there. How do you repair the receptors? Let's say if accutane did come and go through our system? This goes back to manganese detoxing the cells if accutane is still in our cells. But if it's not.... Then wtf.

That's why HGH, peptides and IGF-1 which can be found at most Anti-aging clinics might be a good option!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ALSO FOR ANYONE WITH IBS OR IBD. Drink Kombucha or brew your own, like I am.

@tryingtohelp

You dont understand epigenetics then. There is no "done" damage. Epigenetic changes arent permanent in any way. There needs to be an ACTIVE suppressor of the gene....otherwise, it would default back to our original DNA blueprint. your DNA never changes. My "little" manganese is the mineral that activates the enzyme to glucuordinate retinoid metabolites out of the body.

How is your gene currently being silenced if there is nothing( accutane metabolite) to silence it???

Plus, if you believe in hardcore epigenetic changes, you would be taking the methylating B vitamins

Implying that Accutane or a metabolite of Accutane must be present to alter gene expression is incorrect in the context of the wikipedia article quoted. This would not be considered an epigentic alteration, but an active modulator of gene expression.

The offending substance does not need to be present for the gene to be silenced. ..."The damage is done," so to speak.

Is there a way to correct it? Maybe. Is taking B-vitamins that may promote methylation going to correct it? Who knows.

That's assuming hypomethylation of a gene or genes is the underlying problem.

And in Duul's case, supplementing a natural hormone that he is lacking due to a structural abnormality sounds like a good idea.

But if there is a permanent damage, how come people feel/are cured when they are fasting for example?

It sounds to me you gave up fighting and trying to convince everyone its permanent.

We're saying the damage is done. So let's try to repair it, I personally do not believe any accutane is in our system however our body / cells are weakened. So we need to repair them in anyway we can.

Juicing Wheatgrass is an amazing way to repair CELL DNA

I just grew a flat of Wheatgrass in my home. Going to be juicing all this week with my masticating juicer. http://www.amazon.com/Omega-J8006-Nutrition-Center-Juicer/dp/B001L7OIVI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1418633233&sr=8-1&keywords=omega+masticating

Also most of the Manganese supplements are quite frankly.....

Dead. Yep it's dead folks, juice Spinach instead, drink your manganese instead.

Taking a dried out manganese supplement is not the way to go, juice it instead. Drink large quantities of it, live enzymes and micronutrients.

Try eating sprouts for your manganese:

http://www.amazon.com/Manual-Wheatgrass-Juicer-Miracle-Commercial/dp/B0012824NK/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1418634211&sr=8-7&keywords=wheat+grass+juicer

Let's put this into perspective. There is now 296 pages on this forum alone in this one topic.

Then take all the other posts on Curezone.com and AllthingsMale.com and propeciahelp.

The one universal cure is Weed, Cannabis, Rick Simpson Oil or call it Phoenix Tears OIl. (the good stuff, very hard to find, and very expensive to make unless you grow your own.

So go grab your medical Marijuana card.

Whoops, looks like the original link was bad:

The 5ARI Withdrawal Syndrome:

http://www.protocol-online.org/forums/uploads/monthly_08_2010/msg-19273-027408800 1282061244.ipb

I will dig through my old medical records tonight and see if I can find some numbers.

I believe my friend it's all related. The doctors never could come to an exact conclusion.

If Accutane caused you any sexual symptoms you would most likely know it. For most of us with sexual symptoms, it goes from having a fully charged sex drive, being fully functional and ready to go at any moment, to having numb broken-down genitals and almost an absent libido in a relatively short time frame during or soon after taking Accutane. Suicidal depression and/or wiped-out emotions often accompany this. It's shocking and terrifying. If you think it boils down to aging in your case, then it may be so.

There are no conventional tests available for androgen-receptor levels either. Not sure why it's such a big deal to take a small tissue sample to perform molecular testing, but it is. That seems to be one of the huge hurdles we face. No matter what exactly Accutane did to us, very little has been determined from blood tests, and the types of tests we would need to show changes in gene expression or epigenetic markers are not performed outside of a research setting.

Hey Dubya,

Now there is a strong theory that it is "estrogen dominance" what we are experiencing (those who has ED issues).

Have you tried to balance your hormones? (Hrt with AI maybe?) or do you know someone who succeded with hormonal balance?

Or do you know anybody who fully recovered from sexual problems includin shrinkage and numbness?

I do have raised Estrogen. Estrogen is at 180 when It should be down to 70.

If I lose my weight I can get my estrogen in the right place again.

Another thing on Blood Tests and Micro Nutrient tests. These fluctuate so much people it's not even accurate.

One day perhaps I was low on Vitamin C. Big whoop, I bet if I went later that day after drinking CUPS of home made Orange Juice it would be off the charts.

To:

TryingtoNOTHELP,

You said...

"Im sorry to be blunt...but as far as Duul's case... he takes prescribed HGH (because we all know prescriptions from doctors make it all good) , has this prescription make his face so bad, it makes him take the chemo drug accutane... now come full circle, to think taking HGH again will solve all of the problems?! that is beyond any logic i see. Maybe that doctor, instead of just prescribing HGH, shouldve found out why he why low in HGH to begin with,,, then he wouldve never even heard of accutane."

I took perscribed HGH when I was 12 years old and diagnosed with Pituitary DWARFISM. I would not have grown past 4'4 if I didn't supplement it. I would be a DWARF today if I didn't. Today I am now standing at 5'9. Acne does not run in my family.

For being a CHESS PLAYER of 2400 rating, you're not to bright dude!!! Do some research on Pituitary gland GROWTH HORMONE deficiency. Before you open your mouth!

The Scalp acne is from a combination of HGH supplementation and my Arnold Chiari malformation I had. Also I had a MAJOR neck surgery when I was in 3rd grade that removed a good chunk of LYMPH nodes from my neck. So yeah my system was not built for those amount of hormones.

YES taking HGH helps repair your cells.

Why are you so uptight about taking HGH, peptides or IGF-1? WHY NOT TRY IT?????

I would do ANYTHING to get my skin back thanks.

Also....On the topic of Skin Sweating.

Our skin is so thin and dry now no wonder the water comes spilling out of the pores when you work out at the gym!!!

It's so damn dry, there is no OIL stopping the sweat from pouring out.

Nothing to detox there. We're dry and craving that SEBUM, man I wish I had some right now.

Let me go slather my face in Shea Butter, brb.

Edited by Duul

My Accutane Story:

Accutane is Chemotherapy marketed as an Acne drug.

Used to treat cancers in all parts of the body including the brain.

That is Criminal.


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I personally do think the accutane is still there, certainly for those that can't tolerate retinol in foods, that's as clear as day from the side effects from eating retinol. What your proposing is that accutane has altered our vitamin A metabolism permanently without it's presence. In that case if we weren't able to utilise vitamin A why would it cause hypervitaminosis A like symptoms? it just doesn't make any sense. The body's not stupid, it'll go back to homeostasis if it can, but there is an antagonist triggering this epigenetic change in the cell and forcing it to transcribe the wrong information, the wrong cell differentiation and that antagonist or inducer is accutane.

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I personally do think the accutane is still there, certainly for those that can't tolerate retinol in foods, that's as clear as day from the side effects from eating retinol. What your proposing is that accutane has altered our vitamin A metabolism permanently without it's presence. In that case if we weren't able to utilise vitamin A why would it cause hypervitaminosis A like symptoms? it just doesn't make any sense. The body's not stupid, it'll go back to homeostasis if it can, but there is an antagonist triggering this epigenetic change in the cell and forcing it to transcribe the wrong information, the wrong cell differentiation and that antagonist or inducer is accutane.

I don't think it causes hypervitaminosis. I think it is hypovitaminosis. All of my symptoms indicate vitamin A deficiency. Most studies show that accutane depletes vit A as well. Also, I think it is possible that the synthetic vit A could still be stored in our livers. Perhaps taking in new vit A releases that synthetic form from our livers which is causing symptoms all over again. Just speculating...

Question to all of the sufferers:

Did anyone take antibiotics along with the accutane? I personally took Bactrim for a few months with the accutane. I think that might've greatly contributed to my downfall.

A product I was recommended by another accutane victim is hydraplenish from nature's way. I will be purchasing this in the coming weeks for my dryness and joint pain. Worth a shot..


Resources for people looking to heal: http://bit.ly/fixingaccutanedamage
Some of the tests I've had over the years of being ill: http://bit.ly/testingresults
My symptoms I've suffered from (includes accutane dosage): http://goo.gl/ZmNCHN
Email I can be contacted at: optimumpremonition2 at gmail dot com


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I took solodyn a couple months prior.


My Accutane Story:

Accutane is Chemotherapy marketed as an Acne drug.

Used to treat cancers in all parts of the body including the brain.

That is Criminal.


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Can I ask, for those of you who have persistent dryness after taking accutane,

Do you feel uncomfortable all the time, as though your eyes, face, lips and scalp are a bit tingly and tight? These are the sensations I feel yet my face can still have some oil on it (partly because I take gamma linolenic acid which helps produce oil)

I am taking Lyrica now to see if this helps with the 'pain'/sensations associated these feelings. I don't know if it's best to describe as dry, but it is certainly not a nice feeling to have on an ongoing basis...

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I was on antibiotics and prednisone during the third month of accutane treatment. I was taking 5 pills a day for two weeks. Shortly after stopping that I began to notice sideeffects so I sstopped accutane. I was on a low dose of accutane so I think that the antibiotics and prednisone is what did it for me

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I have been on the Manganese 10mg chelated + Methyl B vitamins + Choline + Molybdenum for about a week now, and I can confirm:

Skin feels and looks better within first day.

When combined with healthy eating/foods rich in Manganese, I had the best sex of possibly my entire life with the firmest erection.

Stomach still has some issues- will be starting probiotic back up after that (had originally cleared my stomach issues), since I took CBD it killed the bacteria in my gut.

Felt very clear and happy.

This was with the regimen AND eating foods with Manganese. Without eating the foods as well/eating a bit healthy, my skin was still great but I did not notice the other benefits like sex drive/firm erections/clarity.

Cheers


What has worked for me in order of safety/effectiveness: Eating small portions of food (no more than 2 fistfuls at any given sitting) *and/or* Low calorie/low fat/low-to-no grain diet while minimizing all dehydrating substances.

What helps: Manganese! Molybdenum, Methyl-B12, Exercise+Water and a Humidifier in your room.

What hasn't: Everything else (so far).

What makes it worse: Multivitamins** for whatever reason. If you need to take supplements, get the single supplement as needed- multivitamins can make your symptoms worse. Do your research on each vitamin! Eating large meals, and eating highly processed/fatty foods.


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conversion made with retinaldehyde dehydrogenases conversion made with retinol dehydrogenase enzymes one such is RoDH-4 wich possess a 3α-HSD activity

retinoic acid<---------------------------------------------retinaldehayde<------------------------------------------------------------Retinol

maybe the fact that we took partial retinoic acid -- 13-cis retinoic acid , can explain the hyper-hypo at the same time?

why it is stays in the body?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20308471

'''13cisRA is known to undergo cytochrome P450-mediated oxidation, mainly by CYP2C8''

even when the other forms of retinoic acids are absence?

it was shown that 13-cis retinoic acid drug converts in the body to other forms but i dont know if they are the complementry forms, and even if they are, maybe there is a limit to how much it can convert? maybe the body sensing a partial retinoic acid deficency which induced by huge ammount of 13-cis retinoic acid, the body isn't realy able to sense it as a partial deficiency so the body just sense it as all retinoic acids deficency-vitamin A deficency so whenever it can create all of them and put them in the cell it just do it -and let the ammount to just rise in the target cells without clearing it. the body can't sense the part of partial retinoic acid tocixity(13cis reinoic) it only sense the part of the partial retinoic acids deficency(but only as a full vitamin A deficancy)?

IT is a partial retinoic acids deficency becuase in order to sense the partial toxicity and clear it out of the body, the body needs to sense all of the retinoic acids, and then it will clear them??? it needs all of the other forms not in tiny dose but at unfortunate to us huge dose or at list equal dose to accutane pills taking over some time?

if the amount of the other reinoic acid will be big enough than the body wil be able to sense and cleare the 13 cis and the retinoic acids in a event which will include also a time limited hypervitaminosis A but it will prevent the partial 13-cis toxcity for life (which is causing a full unotecebale by the body hypervitaminosis A for life in the target cells whenever there are enogh retionic acids to creat some amount of the full spectrum but not enogh amount of the full spectrum for the body to sense a full spectrum toxicity so whenever there is some the body just keep giving it to the target cells till it DOES reach a full hypervitaminosis A)

http://www.nature.co...l/5700418a.html

''Several studies have indicated that the effects of retinoids on cell proliferation, cell cycle, and apoptosis are retinoid-specific or cell type-specific events. Isotretinoin has been found to be superior to other non-aromatic retinoids, such as tretinoin and alitretinoin, in reducing sebocyte proliferation and suppressing sebum production, whereas most aromatic retinoids do not reduce sebum synthesis (Zouboulis and Orfanos, 2000).This superior effect of isotretinoin has been attributed to the delayed initiation of retinoid inactivation under incubation of sebocytes with isotretinoin, a fact that leads to high intracellular tretinoin concentrations. In contrast, incubation with tretinoin leads to rapid enhancement of CRABP-II expression, which reduces the free intracellular concentration of tretinoin through promotion of its metabolism by cytochrome P450 enzymes, and to induction of CYP1A1 expression, a major xenobiotic metabolizing enzyme, in cultured sebocytes (Tsukada et al., 2000).''

''incubation with tretinoin leads to rapid enhancement of CRABP-II''

which can start the event of clearing the drug out of the body(cyp450 and then Glucuronidation)

''effect of isotretinoin has been attributed to the delayed initiation of retinoid inactivation under incubation of sebocytes with isotretinoin''

CRABP-II can't sense partial retinoic acids only the full spectrum?

''a fact that leads to high intracellular tretinoin concentrations''

whenever ther's some complementary reticoic acids the body let it get to the target cells, a process which slowly leads to hypervitaminosis A. IT is happening becuase overall there is a deficiency in parts of the retinoic acid to form full spectrum retinoic acid=VITAMIN A.

so its just keep to deliver it to the cell when ever there is some small amount. it never realise that there is something that need to get out of the cells and body? or realise far to late and only for a short time which after it the deadly cycle returns?

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006291X03003322

''13-cis-retinoic acid (isotretinoin), 3,4-didehydroretinoic acid, and 3,4-didehydroretinol, but not all-trans-retinoic acid or the synthetic retinoids acitretin and adapalene, were potent competitive inhibitors of the oxidative 3α-HSD activity of RoDH-4, i.e. , reduced the formation of dihydrotestosterone and androstandione in vitro''

bottom line-retinoic acids can get cleared when the body sense a hyper of them but when the hyper is only on one particle of retinoic acids like 13-cis it can't?

as always, it is all just my random ideas which might be totaly wrong, don't know....

Edited by Modeaa

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I have been on the Manganese 10mg chelated + Methyl B vitamins + Choline + Molybdenum for about a week now, and I can confirm:

Skin feels and looks better within first day.

When combined with healthy eating/foods rich in Manganese, I had the best sex of possibly my entire life with the firmest erection.

Stomach still has some issues- will be starting probiotic back up after that (had originally cleared my stomach issues), since I took CBD it killed the bacteria in my gut.

Felt very clear and happy.

This was with the regimen AND eating foods with Manganese. Without eating the foods as well/eating a bit healthy, my skin was still great but I did not notice the other benefits like sex drive/firm erections/clarity.

Cheers

I understand the methyl B vitamins and the choline is for DNA methylation, epigenetic changes. The manganese is for the co factor glucuronosyltransferase. But what's the Molybdenum for?

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Deficiency, UDP-glucuronosyltransferase: Underactivity of a liver enzyme that is essential to the disposal of bilirubin (the chemical that results from the normal breakdown of hemoglobin from red blood cells).

The deficiency of this enzyme (UDP-glucuronosyltransferase) results in a condition called Gilbert's disease in which there are mild elevations of bilirubin pigment in the blood. The elevated bilirubin pigment can sometimes cause mild yellowing (jaundice) of the eyes. People with Gilbert's disease are otherwise entirely normal with no other signs or symptoms and their liver enzymes in blood serum are also entirely normal.

Its funny, ive had elevated bilirubin levels and slightly yellow eye whites ever since accutane. The doctor said no worries, its just Gilberts disease. But i didnt have this in my initial blood tests before accutane! There u go Chico.

Does anyone else on here have high bilirubin levels?

The most in depth article on glucuordination of accutane and its metabolites... maybe we can get the doctor to comment on this thread... her email is near the top. sophie.rowbotham@cancer.org.uk

http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/content/38/7/1211.full

Identification of UGT1A9 as an important isoform involved in the glucuronidation of both 13cisRA and 4-oxo 13cisRA provides a rationale for investigating the impact of UGT1A9 genetic polymorphisms on the reported variability associated with 13cisRA pharmacokinetics and metabolism in children with neuroblastoma (Veal et al., 2007).

plus we know which polymorphism to check for.

Edited by tryingtohelp2014
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If you have a majority of the following: Joint pain,Brain fog,lethargy,high bilirubin,dry skin, night-blindness, sweat easily, thin easily damaged skin, poor wound healing, dry brittle hair..... Please get a RBC copper, ceruloplasmin, plasma copper,  RBC zinc and a Vitamin D test ASAP


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ATTENTION ATTENTION

ATTENTION ATTENTION

For anyone who is interested in liver issues. I have my results back from doing the Functional Liver Detoxification Profile by Healthscope Pathology.

The condensed version

Phase 1

Caffeine Clearance 1.2 (0..5 - 1.6)

Phase 2

Glutathionation 3.1 (5.6 - 11.4)

Sulphation 26 (16 - 36)

Glucuronidation 8 (27 - 56)

Glycination 29 (30 - 53)

As you can see, Glutathionation is very low, Sulphation is normal, Glucuronidation is extremely extremely low, and Glycination is just a tad low.

I've got a abunch of supp recommendations to try for them. So off to iherb.com again to buy more pills.

Good luck everyone

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timatron, thank you so much for posting your test results. tryingtohelp2014 is definitely on the right track

Some of my standard liver blood work during and after accutane:

http://gyazo.com/b3b108ccaf02a604ebdd4a1a3b7a087f

my first pill was 08/03/12

last pill was 12/20/12

Check my signature for my other blood test results and symptoms list

Also, seeing as some people took accutane with antibiotics and some took it without and still got messed up, I think we can conclude that accutane is more than likely the cause for most of us. I think the ones who took antibiotics near or during the course were more likely to get screwed up though


Resources for people looking to heal: http://bit.ly/fixingaccutanedamage
Some of the tests I've had over the years of being ill: http://bit.ly/testingresults
My symptoms I've suffered from (includes accutane dosage): http://goo.gl/ZmNCHN
Email I can be contacted at: optimumpremonition2 at gmail dot com


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Tryingtohelp: I also have high bilirubin levels.


What has worked for me in order of safety/effectiveness: Eating small portions of food (no more than 2 fistfuls at any given sitting) *and/or* Low calorie/low fat/low-to-no grain diet while minimizing all dehydrating substances.

What helps: Manganese! Molybdenum, Methyl-B12, Exercise+Water and a Humidifier in your room.

What hasn't: Everything else (so far).

What makes it worse: Multivitamins** for whatever reason. If you need to take supplements, get the single supplement as needed- multivitamins can make your symptoms worse. Do your research on each vitamin! Eating large meals, and eating highly processed/fatty foods.


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Another question for everyone:

Trying to see if there is a link between heavy metal exposure and accutane symptoms

anyone here who got messed up from accutane who never had any dental work done?

I just got my nickel titanium retainers taken out yesterday. Not sure if that could have been contributing to some of my symptoms. Maybe I'll notice a change in the near future. Perhaps there are some of you that have had braces or silver fillings or mercury amalgums etc..

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=nickel+accutane

old message by timatron: "As for the dreaming. I cant remember when I stopped dreaming, since I was a teen. Recently had my stainless steel wire taken out from my bottom teeth by my dentist. It was put there indefinately after my braces came out. Man, I've been dreaming heavily ever since that day and my mood has improved slightly! That was about 6 weeks ago and have dreamt ever since. I was blaming roaccutane for all this but looks like it was something else. I had a mild nickel allergy. But I still blame Roaccy for making it a bit worse. Roaccy is the cause of all our problems."

I also completely quit having dreams when I went on accutane. I still haven't had one in 2 years. Also, I have a known vit b6 deficiency which is associated with dreaming. Supplementation doesn't fix the deficiency

Edited by yetanotheraccutanevictim
1 person likes this

Resources for people looking to heal: http://bit.ly/fixingaccutanedamage
Some of the tests I've had over the years of being ill: http://bit.ly/testingresults
My symptoms I've suffered from (includes accutane dosage): http://goo.gl/ZmNCHN
Email I can be contacted at: optimumpremonition2 at gmail dot com


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I've had dental work as well and currently have this permanent metal wire behind my two front teeth. But I still have dreams occasionally not as frequent but they still are there

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