Repairing the long-term damage from Accutane

9,223 posts in this topic

Nick, can you give us a link to the CBD oil ?

And whats your way of ingestion ?

Edited by Ottovisual

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My side effects ranged from extremely dry and flaking skin, hair loss, brain fog, stomach pain, lethargy, anxiety, depression, painful bowel movements, sexual side effects were caused I believe only by my anxiety/depression, and (probably not) lastly, decreased healing time. I can say this oil has helped me with all of them, but you have to tweak it to where you want it/get on the dose and schedule that works for you. It does have some interesting side effects cognitively as it is basically a natural antipsychotic, so again, get used to it and see what works for you; but remember the laundry list of beneficial effects and that it is natural- it is not just another poison.

Dew Drops 100mg CBD Hemp Oil Supplement 1oz is what I purchased because it has a high CBD concentration and good reviews/quality, though there may be better formulas out there/better ones for you individually. It is $40, but lasts about 3 months if you use it every day.

If you search that on Amazon you will find it- I did not post the link because I don't think technically I'm allowed to on this forum. PM me if you need an actual link.

Edited by Nick Ryan
2 people like this

What has worked for me in order of safety/effectiveness: Eating small portions of food (no more than 2 fistfuls at any given sitting) *and/or* Low calorie/low fat/low-to-no grain diet while minimizing all dehydrating substances.

What helps: Manganese! Molybdenum, Methyl-B12, Exercise+Water and a Humidifier in your room.

What hasn't: Everything else (so far).

What makes it worse: Multivitamins** for whatever reason. If you need to take supplements, get the single supplement as needed- multivitamins can make your symptoms worse. Do your research on each vitamin! Eating large meals, and eating highly processed/fatty foods.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cheers for stopping by Nick,

I remember reading your posts from way back on this thread.
Just so we can get a timeline for your symptoms, when did you take accutane? How did the symptoms follow afterwards i.e. did they get worse for a period before improving via time alone or through lifestyle modification etc. How close to your original pre-'tane self do you consider yourself now?

Once again thanks for sharing some good news!

Mike



Also to the many who have PM'd me over the last few days I'll try to get back to you a.s.a.p simply very busy at the moment. I probably will be checking in less than usual for the next couple of weeks/months. This final semester of uni is going to be a massive ballache for me it seems, so much work.



Oh and Dubya, yea I mentioned that along with the fact I can't feel my D. I even had him prodding my Japs eye and stated I could not feel him molesting me. Still all in my head apparently. I also got accused of steroid abuse -_- so much love for doctors at the moment.

1 person likes this

Do your part to raise awareness:

For new individuals PM'ing me, I will reply IF you report all your side effects to the links below and screenshot each one once you have completed it. PM me with your email and I will message you and you can send the screenshots over with whatever questions you like.

Report side effects to organisations here:

Rxisk
https://www.rxisk.org/Explore-Side-Effects/About.aspx
FDA
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/medwatch/index.cfm?action=consumer.reporting1
NHS
http://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/
Roche
http://www.roche.co.uk/portal/uk/xxxcontactxxx

Report side effects to accutane sympathetic MP's here (UK):

mail@nickharveymp.com

vaizeye@parliament.uk

I encourage people to copy this signature into their own.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One last thing, is anyone reading these posts who hasn't done so already can you please REPORT YOUR SIDE EFFECTS. Links below. I say this because going to the docs and telling him my D don't work no more due to accutane. Then he pulls out a massive book and looks at 'tane sides and says 'umm well it doesn't look like it's a side effect'. This does not help our case by not reporting our sides. Firstly we won't be taken seriously, secondly more unwitting individuals will be struck with these side effects. Do we really want that? (rhetorical)

1 person likes this

Do your part to raise awareness:

For new individuals PM'ing me, I will reply IF you report all your side effects to the links below and screenshot each one once you have completed it. PM me with your email and I will message you and you can send the screenshots over with whatever questions you like.

Report side effects to organisations here:

Rxisk
https://www.rxisk.org/Explore-Side-Effects/About.aspx
FDA
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/medwatch/index.cfm?action=consumer.reporting1
NHS
http://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/
Roche
http://www.roche.co.uk/portal/uk/xxxcontactxxx

Report side effects to accutane sympathetic MP's here (UK):

mail@nickharveymp.com

vaizeye@parliament.uk

I encourage people to copy this signature into their own.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The stuff you've gone for is similar to what I've been using Nick - I went for the 500mg CBD 2oz Cibdex, but it looks like the same firm is behind both. I've got through a whole bottle in about 5-6 weeks, and have been using another CBD product called RSHO for the last 3 weeks or so (so been using both products).

I can't say I've realy noticed anything in terms of effects, but I notice you are also smoking and a number of studies do seem to suggest there's an interaction between CBD and THC, and one I've read mentioned THC increased the effects of CBD. As a result I've ordered a vaporizor so I'll combine it with regular weed.

Also just to note the actual CBD content is really quite low in those drops - only 1.5mg per dose. By comparison that RSHO stuff is 240mg per day if you take 1gram so it's much stronger, but very expensive.

I received some 'medi wiet' CBD drops yesterday which I ordered from the site Otto mentioned. Will keep you guys posted on any progress with that stuff! It's completely different to Cibdex - looks like cooking oil and tastes a bit like alcohol.

For anyone looking to make RSO, there is quite a safe looking method here;

Edited by tanedout

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems safe but they put olive oil in it.. mixing fat with thc will bypass the liver and "poison" the body, at this dosage it's safe but, i think that the rick simpson method use bigger dosage of pure oil.

Edited by anonyy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nick, Thanks for stopping in and letting us know it seems to be working. That makes several so far.


Mike, I should have made a bet about the steroid accusations. Really didn't think it would happen on one of your first visits though. Retinoic acid is technically a steroid, so... We can all say we've been abused by steroids.

Edited by Dubya_B
1 person likes this

Don't be part of the problem!
Report your side effects through the following links:
Rxisk
https://www.rxisk.or...ects/About.aspx
FDA
https://www.accessda...umer.reporting1
NHS
http://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/
Roche
http://www.roche.co....k/xxxcontactxxx


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dubya_B your a funny man ha.. we have all been abused by steroids , we should all look like bodybuilders then lol...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anonyy, isn't that why you should put it under the tongue ? To bypass the normal route and let the cbd directly be absorbed ? Like LSD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To respond to the low CBD concentration assertion:

The studies done that showed beneficial effects were done with concentrations in MICROgrams, not MILLIgrams. Even if the concentration is only 1.25mg in the solution I use, that is still substantially higher than needed to observe positive effects. It certainly works for me, though like I mentioned in my first post- there may be better/more concentrated solutions for each individual. It never hurts to start low (and spend less) and work your way up if you need to/up your dose.

To everyone's health

Cheers


What has worked for me in order of safety/effectiveness: Eating small portions of food (no more than 2 fistfuls at any given sitting) *and/or* Low calorie/low fat/low-to-no grain diet while minimizing all dehydrating substances.

What helps: Manganese! Molybdenum, Methyl-B12, Exercise+Water and a Humidifier in your room.

What hasn't: Everything else (so far).

What makes it worse: Multivitamins** for whatever reason. If you need to take supplements, get the single supplement as needed- multivitamins can make your symptoms worse. Do your research on each vitamin! Eating large meals, and eating highly processed/fatty foods.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nick I'm not sure which studies you've seen but every study I've seen has been in milligrams. If the amount you're taking is working for you then that is still great

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anonyy, isn't that why you should put it under the tongue ? To bypass the normal route and let the cbd directly be absorbed ? Like LSD cool.png

The problem is more linked to the THC who need to be converted by the liver to be benefic, pure non-convertedTHC who bypass the liver in too high concentration is toxic.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

anonyy where are you getting your information because I can't find a single source that says that

If what you are saying is true, would taking RSO with a fish oil capsule make it bypass the liver? (thus making it less psychoactive but also less effective)

Edited by acne1776

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CBD dosage:

I have bounced around some forums and spoken with some people, and surprise surprise- it depends on the person. Some report taking it 2, 3 times a day at the recommended dose of 15 drops (the 1.25mg concentration I listed previously).

Personally, I have recently started halving the dosage to somewhere around 7 drops a day or so and that is enough. Further, it appears smaller doses will be stimulating to you, while larger ones will have more of a sedative effect. Both doses reduce anxiety/depression/irritability and help with the bowel and skin etc, just depends on what kind of feeling you are looking for/if you're looking to be productive or relax.

Hope this helps

1 person likes this

What has worked for me in order of safety/effectiveness: Eating small portions of food (no more than 2 fistfuls at any given sitting) *and/or* Low calorie/low fat/low-to-no grain diet while minimizing all dehydrating substances.

What helps: Manganese! Molybdenum, Methyl-B12, Exercise+Water and a Humidifier in your room.

What hasn't: Everything else (so far).

What makes it worse: Multivitamins** for whatever reason. If you need to take supplements, get the single supplement as needed- multivitamins can make your symptoms worse. Do your research on each vitamin! Eating large meals, and eating highly processed/fatty foods.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the info Nick , Dew Drops hemp oil sounds like a great product.

Edited by Gladiatoro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't need sources, it's well known that eating thc with fat bypass the liver, that's how space cake work and thats why rso doesnt make you high.

Edited by anonyy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would RSO not make you high? There is no fat in it which means it does pass through the liver which turns it into 11 hydroxy THC which is 3-5 times more psychoactive than delta 9 THC.

I was wondering where you got the idea that delta 9 THC is toxic to the nervous system or that it is less beneficial than 11 hydroxy thc

Edited by acne1776

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cause the excess is flushed away and 11 hydroxy is a better form.

Edited by anonyy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can order it through life-enthusiast .com , they ship to Canada , Dixie botanicals dew drops I haven't ordered it yet but I talked to a sales rep and they

guided me to that web site.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's an interesting article that could explain the positive effects some of you are getting from CBD and THC: "Changes on metabolic parameters induced by acute cannabinoid administration (CBD, THC) in a rat experimental model of nutritional vitamin A deficiency: El Amrani L et al."

Would make sense if the impaired retinol/vitamin A metabolism theory mentioned in this thread was true

Edited by shadeo14

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my perseverance to get ED and sexual dysfunction recognised as a side effect here's some of the research I have collated from board members across the internet and a bit of my own research. I would massively appreciate if people could add any of their own research to this document and then we can start having a complete document to hand to doctors when we go to visit them.

Accutane – Link with ED/Sexual Dysfunction

5-alpha-reductase activity & ED/Sexual Dysfucntion


Gur, S., Kadowitz, P. J., & Hellstrom, W. J. (2013). Effects of 5-alpha reductase inhibitors on erectile function, sexual desire and ejaculation. Expert opinion on drug safety, 12(1), 81-90.


Clinical trials with 5ARI report prevalence rates of de novo erectile dysfunction of 5 - 9%. Decreased circulating dihydrotestosterone (DHT) resulting from 5ARI use is associated with diminished sexual desire and/or orgasm. The presence of adverse sexual effects is associated with decreased self-esteem, quality of life and ability to maintain an intimate relationship. Inhibition of 5ARI additionally influences progesterone and deoxycorticosterone levels and may alter psychological functions, including increased depression, melancholy and loss of general well being.



Boudou, P., Soliman, H., Chivot, M., Villette, J. M., Vexiau, P., Belanger, A., & Fiet, J. (1995). Effect of oral isotretinoin treatment on skin androgen receptor levels in male acneic patients. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism,80(4), 1158-1161.


Excerpt: "The present study clearly demonstrated a decrease in androgen receptor binding capacity... The isotretinoin-receptor complex may interact with cis-acting response elements in the promoter region of regulated genes, repressing the gene transcription encoding for the androgen receptor, the gene transcription encoding for the 5-alpha-reductase activity, or both transcriptions simultaneously.


Öztekin, Ç. V., Gur, S., Abdulkadir, N. A., Lokman, U., Akdemir, A. Ö., Cetinkaya, M., & Hellstrom, W. J. (2012). Incomplete Recovery of Erectile Function in Rat after Discontinuation of Dual 5Alpha Reductase Inhibitor Therapy. Journal of Sexual Medicine, 9(7), 1773-1781.

In vivo erectile activity (intracavernosal pressure [iCP]/mean arterial pressure [MAP] and total ICP) in treatment groups were significantly decreased compared with controls


Traish, A. M., Hassani, J., Guay, A. T., Zitzmann, M., & Hansen, M. L. (2011). Adverse Side Effects of Reductase Inhibitors Therapy: Persistent Diminished Libido and Erectile Dysfunction and Depression in a Subset of Patients. The journal of sexual medicine, 8(3), 872-884.


Prolonged adverse effects on sexual function such as erectile dysfunction and diminished libido are reported by a subset of men


Case study within this study;

“In 1999, a 24-year-old male was diagnosed with androgenetic alopecia (AGA). He had normal stature (height, 182 cm; weight, 80 kg), had no history of any medical illness, and was not taking any medications. He reported having a normal sex drive and normal erectile capacity. He started treatment with finasteride (Propecia™), 1 mg daily, and within 2–5 days experienced soreness of the testicles, total lack of sex drive, and complete inability to achieve an erection. He had difficulty concentrating and felt depressed. Expecting these initial side effects to be temporary, he continued treatment. Except for some improvement of the soreness in the testicles, he felt numbness and there was no improvement in his sex drive or erectile function. After a little more than 1 month, he discontinued treatment and the side effects diminished to some degree, but sexual function never returned to normal. In the following months and years, the symptoms persisted with loss of libido and erectile dysfunction (ED). In 2003, the patient consulted a specialty clinic for sexual medicine in Boston, MA, USA, and went through extensive examinations. At this point, treatment with Viagra had been tried with only marginal success. Because of hopelessness and depression, two types of antidepressants (citalopram and bupropion) had been prescribed, which helped by “taking away the deepest lows,” but with no improvement in either libido or erectile capacity. In addition, there were undesirable side effects to these drugs and treatment was discontinued after several months. In Boston, the patient had a psychological evaluation and underwent duplex Doppler ultrasonography.

Suffering from persistent symptoms of ED, loss of libido, and depression, the patient consulted a clinic in Copenhagen, Denmark, which specializes in testosterone treatment. The total testosterone (T) varied between 22.6 and 14.2 nmol/L (651 and 409 ng/dL) in the baseline state. The fluctuations were felt to be quite wide. No 5 α-dihydrotestosterone (5 α-DHT) measurements were available. The following baseline tests were all found to be normal: sex hormone binding globulin, luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone, thyroid-stimulating hormone, T3, T4, prolactin, estradiol, dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHEA-S), and androstenedione. He is currently under no treatment, but 11 years later, he still suffers from ED and loss of libido.”

From scouring the internet for others with Accutane induced sexual dysfunction there are many that resemble this exact symptom set. Hormone testing shows no major abnormality and the individuals appear to be in good health otherwise. It appears from this that individuals have a type of androgenic resistance, thus explaining no help of treatment modalities such as testosterone replacement therapy. Also been noted that Viagra is of little use as the problem is not strictly to do with structural abnormalities such as vascular damage.


Tirado, S. A., & León, D. G. (2005). Erectile dysfunction during isotretinoin therapy]. Actas urologicas españolas, 29(10), 974.


6 out of 20 (30%) of patients receiving isotretinoin developed erectile dysfunction during the study.






Erdemir, F., Harbin, A., & Hellstrom, W. J. (2008). 5Alpha Reductase Inhibitors and Erectile Dysfunction: The Connection. The journal of sexual medicine,5(12), 2917-2924.


The connection between 5ARIs and sexual dysfunction is apparent upon review of the literature.


Propecia:
A drug used to treat hairloss as well as benign prostrate hyperplasia. It is a 5-alpha-reductase type I & II inhibitor and exhibits many similar side effects to isotretinoin in regards to sexual function. Isotretinoin seems to be only a 5AR type I inhibitor thus explaining how isotretinoin can exert only exert hypogonadal symptoms sexually as opposed to physically observable traits as well. This is due to the differing distributions of type I and II throughout the body.

http://www.propeciahelp.com/overview

A hypothesis as to why propecia is far more recognised for its sexual side effects more so than isotretinoin and more money invested into its research is possibly due to the age and thus credibility of victims. Propecia users are generally older men, who are financially stable and more mature than isotretinoin users who are generally to put it bluntly – spotty kids, not known for pro-activity nor being taken seriously in medical matters.



Persistence of Side Effects



Csoka, A. B., & Szyf, M. (2009). Epigenetic side-effects of common pharmaceuticals: a potential new field in medicine and pharmacology. Medical hypotheses, 73(5), 770-780.


Quote;
Here we present the hypothesis that commonly-used pharmaceutical drugs can cause such persistent epigenetic changes. Drugs may alter epigenetic homeostasis by direct or indirect mechanisms. Direct effects may be caused by drugs which affect chromatin architecture or DNA methylation. For example the antihypertensive hydralazine inhibits DNA methylation. An example of an indirectly acting drug is isotretinoin, which has transcription factor activity. A two-tier mechanism is postulated for indirect effects in which acute exposure to a drug influences signaling pathways that may lead to an alteration of transcription factor activity at gene promoters. This stimulation results in the altered expression of receptors, signaling molecules, and other proteins necessary to alter genetic regulatory circuits. With more chronic exposure, cells adapt by an unknown hypothetical process that results in more permanent modifications to DNA methylation and chromatin structure, leading to enduring alteration of a given epigenetic network. Therefore, any epigenetic side-effect caused by a drug may persist after the drug is discontinued.


The following adverse effects have been reported to persist, even after discontinuing therapy, suggesting persistent (or perhaps slowly-reversing) gene expression changes and epigenetic effects: alopecia, arthralgias, ocular abnormalities, inflammatory bowel disease, keloids, osteopenia, hyperlipidemia, erectile dysfunction, and psychiatric disturbances. Isotretinoin is postulated to have complex effects on the brain and central nervous system."






Effects on Brain (brief)

Bremner, J. D., Fani, N., Ashraf, A., Votaw, J. R., Brummer, M. E., Cummins, T., ... & Nemeroff, C. B. (2005). Functional brain imaging alterations in acne patients treated with isotretinoin. American Journal of Psychiatry, 162(5), 983-991.


RESULTS: Isotretinoin but not antibiotic treatment was associated with decreased brain metabolism in the orbitofrontal cortex (–21% change versus 2% change for antibiotic), a brain area known to mediate symptoms of depression.


Kontaxakis, V. P., Skourides, D., Ferentinos, P., Havaki-Kontaxaki, B. J., & Papadimitriou, G. N. (2009). Isotretinoin and psychopathology: a review. Ann Gen Psychiatry, 8(2).


strongly suggests a link between isotretinoin and psychopathology.


Strahan, J. E., & Raimer, S. (2006). Isotretinoin and the controversy of psychiatric adverse effects. International journal of dermatology, 45(7), 789-799.


Isotretinoin disrupts the birth of new hippocampal cells.

Hippocampus is tied to the reward pathway.





Vape Report II

So I have less positive news this time. However before I write it up, I fully believe last my 1st vape report was valid and reliable. That was the best I've been functioning since 'tane by a very wide margin sexually (at least twice as good as usual). To big an effect to be explained simply by a placebo (despite my pessimist attitude to most things negating any sort of placebo in most circumstances). Therefore I think I'm going to try an recreate the skiing circumstances just to validate that it wasn't any other factor.

Anyway, I saw the girlfriend this weekend and I could not recreate the results from the ski holiday. Bit gutted but hey-ho get back on the horse and try again.

I'll leave another vape report for another few weeks or until I see really noticeable positive results again.


shadeo that looks interesting, will look into it later.

3 people like this

Do your part to raise awareness:

For new individuals PM'ing me, I will reply IF you report all your side effects to the links below and screenshot each one once you have completed it. PM me with your email and I will message you and you can send the screenshots over with whatever questions you like.

Report side effects to organisations here:

Rxisk
https://www.rxisk.org/Explore-Side-Effects/About.aspx
FDA
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/medwatch/index.cfm?action=consumer.reporting1
NHS
http://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/
Roche
http://www.roche.co.uk/portal/uk/xxxcontactxxx

Report side effects to accutane sympathetic MP's here (UK):

mail@nickharveymp.com

vaizeye@parliament.uk

I encourage people to copy this signature into their own.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought 5AR type 1 was not found in the genitals, that's why finasteride etc. have a higher rate of ED than accutane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the libido go away there is a reason, it's not a malfunction or some 5AR blablabla stories.. Sexual activity use a lot of energy, if the body has other priority, other problems or is tired he will not "trigger" libido. Libido is 100% related to adrenals. If you really want your libido back do what's right for your body (diet & elimination methods [flushs or/and herbs, etc..]). Digestion of toxic food (meat, dairy & grains mainly) use a lot of energy. You can try some herbs that help your adrenals (astragalus, eleutherococcus, parsley root, ginger, etc.), you will have your libido back for 3 days but then the body will use that energy into other priorities again (or had used all of it). I don't know if you noticed but eveything that stimulate the kidney (so the adrenals too), a poisoning to something, at the beginning of a cold, etc.. or some detox recipe with parsley or kidney tea bring briefly a very strong libido.

Edited by anonyy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Post-drug sexual dysfunction week on RxISK:


Sexual Dysfunction Enduring After Treatment Halts: Sexual-DEATH
http://wp.rxisk.org/sexual-dysfuncti...-sexual-death/


RxiSK Stories Page:
http://wp.rxisk.org/category/stories/

Remember to comment on these stories!
These stories were posted in response to the removal of the PSSD and PFS wikipedia pages in light of scientific evidence for these conditions. Additionally, the Accutane story will be featured again on Friday this week.

If anyone here knows someone involved with the media, please share this with them.


Don't be part of the problem!
Report your side effects through the following links:
Rxisk
https://www.rxisk.or...ects/About.aspx
FDA
https://www.accessda...umer.reporting1
NHS
http://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/
Roche
http://www.roche.co....k/xxxcontactxxx


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a New Account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now