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subcision

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#1 ciro

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 03:04 PM

I've got two shallow scars that the dermaroller hasn't helped much I think because there big and sorta deep. I've seen a bunch of videos showing doctors doing subcision. They just use a huge gauge needle and jab it in different directions. Seems easy with some numbing cream. I'm thinking about trying it on one with a syringe. I'm choosing a syringe needle because the needle is so thin I won't cause any more scarring. Any thoughts?

#2 sanjoseskin

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 03:25 PM

QUOTE (ciro @ Mar 31 2011, 03:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've got two shallow scars that the dermaroller hasn't helped much I think because there big and sorta deep. I've seen a bunch of videos showing doctors doing subcision. They just use a huge gauge needle and jab it in different directions. Seems easy with some numbing cream. I'm thinking about trying it on one with a syringe. I'm choosing a syringe needle because the needle is so thin I won't cause any more scarring. Any thoughts?


What guage needle are you using?

Traditional subcision is done using a Admix Nokor 18g needle, and it enters the skin flat and horizontal, not vertical.

If you use a hypodermic needle, I suggest you get a 30g, fairly safe and you can slide the needle very superficially on the surface.

30g will give you less chance of doing something bad, and if you repeat it a few times every few weeks, you will get great results.

Always use a new sterile needle, wash your face with a triclosan based face wash first, like cetaphil antibacterial cleansing bar, and insert the needle not too deep, actually kinda superficial with that guage.

Then go back and forth, then while still inside the same entrance point, move the needle a tiny bit to a new spot, and go back and forth again.

You may actually hear the scar tissue popping and tearing apart, sounds like rice crispy treats crackling.

You don't need numbing cream with a 30g needle, actually better not to do it with the cream.
You won't feel much.


SanJoseSkin

#3 ciro

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 04:00 PM

Thanks sanjoseskin, I actually needled before but I didn't do what subcision doctors do. They jab it a bunch of times and slide it to the sides when in the skin. Like I said before it's all about technique wink.gif I'll try tonight and take before after pics and post.

#4 jea

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 12:31 AM

QUOTE (ciro @ Mar 31 2011, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks sanjoseskin, I actually needled before but I didn't do what subcision doctors do. They jab it a bunch of times and slide it to the sides when in the skin. Like I said before it's all about technique wink.gif I'll try tonight and take before after pics and post.


Hi, I'm so glad you posted this. I just found out about subcision tonight and want to do it to a pock mark I have as well. I guess I just need to know where to get the needle?
Thanks for any help you can provide me.

#5 ciro

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Posted 05 April 2011 - 05:57 PM

There's videos of doctors performing it on patients online, just so you get an idea. I did mine with a regular needle for diabetics. My gradma has diabeties so I just grabbed a bunch of the needle tips. The gauge is 31, it's pretty thin to minimize scarring. When I did it to that one scars it bled a lot every horizontal poke I took. It turned purple the next day, now it's like yellowish color. I'm a combine this with weekly dermarolling. I'm not gonna roll so extreme anymore because the next days I'm really red. Just to stimulate the dermis.

#6 jea

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Posted 10 April 2011 - 10:27 PM

QUOTE (ciro @ Apr 5 2011, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There's videos of doctors performing it on patients online, just so you get an idea. I did mine with a regular needle for diabetics. My gradma has diabeties so I just grabbed a bunch of the needle tips. The gauge is 31, it's pretty thin to minimize scarring. When I did it to that one scars it bled a lot every horizontal poke I took. It turned purple the next day, now it's like yellowish color. I'm a combine this with weekly dermarolling. I'm not gonna roll so extreme anymore because the next days I'm really red. Just to stimulate the dermis.


Can you tell if it's mae a difference yet?

#7 LoveGreenSmoothies

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 07:40 PM

QUOTE (ciro @ Mar 31 2011, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks sanjoseskin, I actually needled before but I didn't do what subcision doctors do. They jab it a bunch of times and slide it to the sides when in the skin. Like I said before it's all about technique wink.gif I'll try tonight and take before after pics and post.



Then shouldn't you have it done by a pro, who has done it lots of times?

good luck whatever you decide to do.
Please only PM me if it's something that cannot be talked about on the thread or is highly personal. This way, everyone benefits.

#8 ciro

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 11:17 PM

I'll post pics soon, I can see a difference. I'm still dermarolling once a week. I did the subcision about 8 says ago on 2 scars

#9 ciro

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 11:22 PM

QUOTE (Anti - Em @ Apr 11 2011, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (ciro @ Mar 31 2011, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks sanjoseskin, I actually needled before but I didn't do what subcision doctors do. They jab it a bunch of times and slide it to the sides when in the skin. Like I said before it's all about technique wink.gif I'll try tonight and take before after pics and post.



Then shouldn't you have it done by a pro, who has done it lots of times?

good luck whatever you decide to do.



I'm done with doctors working on my face, I feel I've learned a ton these past 10 years.

#10 benhurs

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 08:35 AM

I have done subcision my self to my old acnescars with insuline needles and a few of the scars has popped out and are impossible to see anymore and they were 15 years old and really deep

I still have two scars that has only improved 50% so I have been looking to buy nokor needles online, unfortunately none of the US comapnies ship outside US so I wonder if you know any of any shop outside US that sells Nokor needles or does any member have some they can sell.

Thanks in advance

#11 houtexjoe

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 02:05 PM

Has anyone else done self subcision? If so, what needles did you use? What did you use for anesthetic? What was your method? What were your results?

Thanks!

#12 houtexjoe

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:16 PM

Well, I tried this on a couple of my pitted acne scars and it was NOT easy. I numbed with LMX Cream 4%, and used a 25g hypodermic needle. Everything went well, but it was hard to tell how far in the needle was, and my skin kept moving along with the needle. I tried both the lancing and the fanning motion, but like I said, it was hard to tell where the bevel of the needle was, so I wasn't able to be as thorough as I intended to be. I don't think that I caused any additional scaring or anything like that, but the process didn't go as smoothly as I wanted. If I do this again, I will be sure to mark the needle so that I can tell how far in it is, and I will be more prepared to stabilize the surrounding skin. Today there is some redness and swelling, but nothing major. Anyway, just wanted to let you guys know :-)

#13 Cyberpile

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 10:33 AM

I used a 25G hypodermic needle the first few times for practice. Now that I have experience, I use an 18G needle. I usually stretch the skin around the scar and enter right before the rolling scar begins. I tunnel to the other side of the scar and then pull the needle back to the edge of the scar without pulling the needle completely out. I slightly change the angle of the needle and repeat. I also move the needle in a fan-like motion. I only enter the needle from three positions around the scar.

#14 tricia

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 06:16 PM

I have done all this as well, and while I found it did help, I still have some significant depressions in a few areas. The areas don't make popping sounds now, and when they swell do level out. Does this mean they aren't tethered anymore since they can be popped up with swelling? When the swelling goes down they go back down as well. Now, I may try the suction method next and see if keeping some bruising in the scar for two weeks will help it to stay level, but maybe I am just missing fat? They aren't super deep, but look really bad with shadows. The area surrounding my scars is a little thicker scar tissue which doesn't help the situation.

#15 zaak27

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 08:32 PM

I used a 25G hypodermic needle the first few times for practice. Now that I have experience, I use an 18G needle. I usually stretch the skin around the scar and enter right before the rolling scar begins. I tunnel to the other side of the scar and then pull the needle back to the edge of the scar without pulling the needle completely out. I slightly change the angle of the needle and repeat. I also move the needle in a fan-like motion. I only enter the needle from three positions around the scar.

I used a 25G hypodermic needle the first few times for practice. Now that I have experience, I use an 18G needle. I usually stretch the skin around the scar and enter right before the rolling scar begins. I tunnel to the other side of the scar and then pull the needle back to the edge of the scar without pulling the needle completely out. I slightly change the angle of the needle and repeat. I also move the needle in a fan-like motion. I only enter the needle from three positions around the scar.

where do you get the 18 gauge nokor needle ? thanks

#16 houtexjoe

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 03:47 PM

Tricia- I think that the suctioning will help alot, post subcision. Give it a try and let us know what you think Posted Image

#17 Starlite

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:16 PM

I have done all this as well, and while I found it did help, I still have some significant depressions in a few areas. The areas don't make popping sounds now, and when they swell do level out. Does this mean they aren't tethered anymore since they can be popped up with swelling? When the swelling goes down they go back down as well. Now, I may try the suction method next and see if keeping some bruising in the scar for two weeks will help it to stay level, but maybe I am just missing fat? They aren't super deep, but look really bad with shadows. The area surrounding my scars is a little thicker scar tissue which doesn't help the situation.


That's interesting, because on my left cheek where the rolling scars are the deepest, I didn't hear that popping sound when my dermatologist did the subcision yesterday. I heard it the most around my chin, where I've treated my scars the least.

#18 tricia

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 12:34 PM

I actually received the scar suction device from owndoc.com the other day and can see how suction can really benefit scars. The pump itself is cheap and cheaply made, but it is working okay for me. It comes with attachments that I don't use because they are too big for my scars, I just use the small circle of the base itself because it fits my scars perfectly and the suction is stronger without attachments. Still, the suction is not incredibly strong but does lift my scars up and temporarily makes them fill in each time I do it which is fun to see. Before I suctioned I lightly dermastamped a few scars, because I really don't have the down time right now to do more. I don't have much bruising right now, just some discoloration. I may not see optimal benefits because I didn't go aggressive. I'll update later in a new thread if the suction works out for me.

#19 austra

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 01:51 PM

I actually received the scar suction device from owndoc.com the other day and can see how suction can really benefit scars. The pump itself is cheap and cheaply made, but it is working okay for me. It comes with attachments that I don't use because they are too big for my scars, I just use the small circle of the base itself because it fits my scars perfectly and the suction is stronger without attachments. Still, the suction is not incredibly strong but does lift my scars up and temporarily makes them fill in each time I do it which is fun to see. Before I suctioned I lightly dermastamped a few scars, because I really don't have the down time right now to do more. I don't have much bruising right now, just some discoloration. I may not see optimal benefits because I didn't go aggressive. I'll update later in a new thread if the suction works out for me.

So you're trying it with dermarolling! I considered that too, but I haven't done anything yet and my scars may not be suitable since they're not rolling. Tell us if it works! Posted Image I've been playing around with the pump as well, not on scars though. It's quite fun.

Edited by austra, 13 December 2012 - 01:51 PM.


#20 kidrock29520

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 03:39 PM

This just doesn't seem very smart. I understand people get desperate when trying to find treatment for their acne scars but c'mon people. Subcision is cheap in terms of acne scar treatments. Just go get a certified professional to do it. Don't risk further damaging your face just to save some money.