85 replies to this topic

[alternativista]

what if i still get 10 hrs of sleep each night, is it still unhealthy?

Yes. you shouldn't need 10 hours of sleep. And you need to keep as natural as possible exposure to light and dark. And artificial light doesn't cut it. It is nowhere near as bright as daylight, even on a cloudy day. Get up in the morning, go outside as much as you can, dim lights in evening and sleep at night.

[LiveLaughFart]

what if i still get 10 hrs of sleep each night, is it still unhealthy?

Yes. you shouldn't need 10 hours of sleep. And you need to keep as natural as possible exposure to light and dark. And artificial light doesn't cut it. It is nowhere near as bright as daylight, even on a cloudy day. Get up in the morning, go outside as much as you can, dim lights in evening and sleep at night.

doesn't sunlight just cause aging though? And what is so important about needing to stay with the natural light/dark sleeping pattern? I don't really get how it can affect your health

[spectacled_owl]

what if i still get 10 hrs of sleep each night, is it still unhealthy?

Yes. you shouldn't need 10 hours of sleep. And you need to keep as natural as possible exposure to light and dark. And artificial light doesn't cut it. It is nowhere near as bright as daylight, even on a cloudy day. Get up in the morning, go outside as much as you can, dim lights in evening and sleep at night.

doesn't sunlight just cause aging though? And what is so important about needing to stay with the natural light/dark sleeping pattern? I don't really get how it can affect your health

Well there's a big difference between being outside in your clothes than laying in the 12:00 summer sun in a bikini for several hours. The sun is good for us, just don't over do it. Actually, when I started eating better, I didn't burn like I used to, although I'm sure I still would if I sunbathed for a lengthy time. For millions of years we have risen with the sun and retired when it does. Electricity is a new thing on our evolutionary timeline.

[FaceValues]

what if i still get 10 hrs of sleep each night, is it still unhealthy?

Yes. you shouldn't need 10 hours of sleep. And you need to keep as natural as possible exposure to light and dark. And artificial light doesn't cut it. It is nowhere near as bright as daylight, even on a cloudy day. Get up in the morning, go outside as much as you can, dim lights in evening and sleep at night.

doesn't sunlight just cause aging though? And what is so important about needing to stay with the natural light/dark sleeping pattern? I don't really get how it can affect your health

The more seratonin you get during the day time, the more melatonin you naturally produce before bed. Your brain is like a plant that needs lots of natural light so it can photosynthesize (dream).

[alternativista]

what if i still get 10 hrs of sleep each night, is it still unhealthy?

Yes. you shouldn't need 10 hours of sleep. And you need to keep as natural as possible exposure to light and dark. And artificial light doesn't cut it. It is nowhere near as bright as daylight, even on a cloudy day. Get up in the morning, go outside as much as you can, dim lights in evening and sleep at night.

doesn't sunlight just cause aging though? And what is so important about needing to stay with the natural light/dark sleeping pattern? I don't really get how it can affect your health

Too much sunlight, sure. But sugar and poor lifestyle habits (such as sleep) are even bigger culprits. Also, in my response above, I was talking about daylight, not necessarily sun exposure. Which you need too. Ideally, you want as much daylight as possible and some UVB exposure to make vitamin D And you do need to make some vitamin D even if you supplement. Your body manufactures a different form which is water soluble and does things the fat soluble D in supplements and fish, etc, can't. UVB rays bounce off the atmosphere when the sun hits at too low an angle such as in the morning, afternoon, winter, extreme latitudes, etc.

Also we are meant to be exposed to a period of bright light and a complete darkness on a daily basis. It's called the circadian rhythm or cycle. And many of your bodiy's processes are timed by this cycle such as the creation of the seratonin in the light which is converted to melatonin in the dark. And it's the melatonin that puts to sleep and keeps you asleep. Also, the production of other hormones and daily repairs to tissues, etc. It's extremely important to your health.

Well there's a big difference between being outside in your clothes than laying in the 12:00 summer sun in a bikini for several hours. The sun is good for us, just don't over do it. Actually, when I started eating better, I didn't burn like I used to, although I'm sure I still would if I sunbathed for a lengthy time. For millions of years we have risen with the sun and retired when it does. Electricity is a new thing on our evolutionary timeline.

Yes, there are many nutrients that protect your skin from sun damage. But only if you eat them. (Although some work topically as well.) With the exception of Omega 3 EFAs, they are pretty much all from plants. Lycopene, proanthocyanins, nutrients in tea, cocoa... Eat lots of flavorful, colorful plant foods.

Edited by alternativista, 26 December 2011 - 05:22 PM.

[alternativista]

It improves glucose metabolism and insulin sensitivity, reduces oxidative stress and it slows cell proliferation which means it might reduce the hyperproliferation/hyperkeratinization of skin cells that leads to acne. In studies on cancer, both calorie restriction and intermittent fasting slow cell proliferation.

[Phresh]

For anyone interested in maintaining physical activity in conjunction with this, it's actually more awesome than any traditional diet could be. I believe there were links and mentions of it earlier in this thread. I'm just giving my personal vouch having been doing it for ~2 months now.

[Bearishly]

Do we really have to call a 16 hour period of no eating "fasting"? Can't we just call it skipping breakfast?

[jepooley]

Lately I've been eatting fruits and vegetables only for breakfast and dinner. So Iet's say I'll have a red bell pepper, an apple, and a carrot. Then at dinner (usually between 6pm-7pm) I eat meat, carbs, and vegetables. Is this an effective way of fasting or no?

[uncle buck]

Do we really have to call a 16 hour period of no eating "fasting"? Can't we just call it skipping breakfast?

If you skip breaking the fast, you're fasting! FOREVER.

If your first meal is at 5pm, it's still breakfast.

[Bearishly]

Do we really have to call a 16 hour period of no eating "fasting"? Can't we just call it skipping breakfast?

If you skip breaking the fast, you're fasting! FOREVER.

Then you die. Woops!

If your first meal is at 5pm, it's still breakfast.

All I'm saying is that there are plenty of people who don't eat a morning meal, and they don't feel the need to label themselves as fasters. The notion that this is healthier to maintain on a regular basis is a new one to me.

[alternativista]

Do we really have to call a 16 hour period of no eating "fasting"? Can't we just call it skipping breakfast?

No, because I don't skip breakfast and never would. Never. I skip dinner, eat something very small for dinner or eat dinner early.

and it's funny because I'm the first person to be annoyed by labels and gimmicks to everything like having to call not using chemicals on your skin 'caveman' and eating real food 'paleo', but the term intermittent fasting doesn't bother me one bit.

All I'm saying is that there are plenty of people who don't eat a morning meal, and they don't feel the need to label themselves as fasters. The notion that this is healthier to maintain on a regular basis is a new one to me.

It isn't necessarily healthier to skip breakfast. It is healthy to go hungry once in a while and one method to do that deliberately that has been studied and shown to be effective is to only eat within an 8-hour period leaving an 16 hour fast.

Edited by alternativista, 10 February 2012 - 07:45 AM.

[alternativista]

MDA blog post on various methods.

I haven't followed the link and read up on it yet, but apparently the man behind the Leangainers method with the 16 hour fast thinks that a 14 hour fast is better for women. Woo hoo! Because that's what i do more often.

http://www.marksdail...hod/#more-28762

[dejaclairevoyant]

All I'm saying is that there are plenty of people who don't eat a morning meal, and they don't feel the need to label themselves as fasters. The notion that this is healthier to maintain on a regular basis is a new one to me.

It's the only form of fasting that has been extensively studied and had the effects documented.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermittent_fasting

[alternativista]

So it was tedious, but I scoured the Leangain guy's blog for the details about women and why the fasting period would be different. It's from an interview apparently done a few years ago. For anymore info, you have to buy the book.

Leigh Peele: Have you found a difference between men and women using this program?
Martin Berkhan: Due to differences in body weight, body composition and calorie needs, very few women, especially those already within a ‘normal’ weight range, get away with an unstructured approach to dieting. That goes for all diet approaches, not just IF. Sure, a lifestyle approach to IF will likely get a few pounds of you, but it won’t work all the way down to getting really lean for most women. The female body is very adept in protecting against fat loss below a certain body fat percentage and spontaneous eating without logging calories will often set people up for failure, unless they have a very solid track record of dieting in the past (i.e very attuned to their bodies caloric needs).

As we’re on the subject, I’ll also mention that I’ve revamped the diet guidelines I use for my female clients. For example, the fasted phase is now 14 hours by default, not 16 hours which is the case for men. This has brought about much greater diet compliance and less negative symptoms among women. The rationale for changing the guidlines makes a lot of sense based on the amount of feedback I’ve been getting, as well as my research on the topic. It turns out that women has lower plasma glucose concentrations than men after the same time spent fasting. In practical terms, this means that women in general are more likely to get moody and hungry if they go too long without feeding, while men can go longer without experiencing any negative effects, and this is exactly what I’ve been seeing. Men can do 16 hours quite easily, not so with women; for them, 14 hours is the sweet spot.

I’ve also made some other dietary alterations that increased has diet compliance for women, but I think I’ll save that part for the book. For now, I’ll just say that moving towards an isocaloric approach, with a healthy dose of carbs from fruit, has worked very well. Thus, I believe the optimal diet on this regime will depend on gender, which makes logical sense if you look at the differences in substrate metabolism between the sexes.

But remember that he's also recommending prolonged intense workouts, the kind we don't recommend, during these fasts. That would probably have an impact on this 'moodiness' he says we suffer from.

Besides, I've seen studies on the benefits of 16/8 protocol and on alternate day fasting.

Edited by alternativista, 20 April 2012 - 09:41 AM.

[alternativista]

Here's a study on the effects of a meal on circulating progesterone levels: http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2778041
They started with women with fasting women with a steady amount of circulating Progesterone due to supplementation by infusion. Then found their P levels dropped while cortisol rose after a meal. They don't discuss what happens with the progesterone so I'm not sure if this is a positive or negative thing for those of us with a deficiency. (such as does the meal trigger the use of the progesterone, get it into cells, etc )

And this article on causes of estrogen dominance mentions the 'metabolic clearing of progesterone' after a large meal. So I'm thinking this is undesirable. So Is this perhaps an example of the benefits of Intermittent fasting?

On the other hand, a large/carb meal can boost thyroid production so...

And on the other hand, Cortisol boosted by the large meal is inflammatory. And it's the stress hormone and stress lowers progesterone.

Edited by alternativista, 30 April 2012 - 09:56 AM.

[alternativista]

Another Mercola article on Intermittent Fasting citing MDA blog posts, Leangains, warrior diet and the Eat, Stop, Eat programs. And intermittent fasting for athletes. http://fitness.merco...20504_FNL_art_1

Fasting is historically common-place as it has been a part of spiritual practice for millennia. But modern science has confirmed there are many good reasons for fasting, including:

• Normalizing your insulin sensitivity, which is key for optimal health as insulin resistance (which is what you get when your insulin sensitivity plummets) is a primary contributing factor to nearly all chronic disease, from diabetes to heart disease and even cancer
• Normalizing ghrelin levels, also known as "the hunger hormone"
• Promoting human growth hormone (HGH) production, which plays an important part in health, fitness and slowing the aging process
• Lowering triglyceride levels
• Reducing inflammation and lessening free radical damage

There's also plenty of research showing that fasting has a beneficial impact on longevity in animals. There are a number of mechanisms contributing to this effect. Normalizing insulin sensitivity is a major one, but fasting also inhibits the mTOR pathway, which plays an important part in driving the aging process. The fact that it improves a number of potent disease markers also contributes to fasting's overall beneficial effects on general health.

Interestingly, one recent study that included more than 200 individuals, found that fasting increased the participants' low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL or "bad" cholesterol) and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL, the "good" cholesterol) by 14 percent and 6 percent, respectively^vi.

Edited by alternativista, 04 May 2012 - 11:10 AM.

[InAStateOfHopefulness]

I actually tried this before, but I never could. I ENJOY eating. I also am a tall, lanky guy. I eat 7-8 times a day. Generally 4-5 small meals, and 3 small snacks. I always have a piece of fruit for breakfast. My first meal is generally lunch and then I eat a few small meals "intermently". I really kind of want to try this whole "Eat for 8 hours, fast for 16" thing, but I'm not sure how to make the transition. I get hungry a lot !

[dejaclairevoyant]

Most of us fasters enjoy eating. It's about self discipline and focus.