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All the Babes on Birth Control (LET THE POSTS ROLL IN!!!)

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#1 FilhadeDeus

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 04:09 PM

Hey lovely ladies!!! This is gonna be a long post but please please read on and HELP ME!!!! I'll be so happy if you did!
I'm a new member (although I've been surfing this site for a few months now).
First off, I'm 22 and I've never been on birth control before.

The reason why I'm considering the pill right now is because of two major reasons:
1. I break out on my chin, jawline, and cheeks... I NEVER used to get acne on these areas of my face before.
2. Sorry for the tmi, but I do have irregular menstrual cycles.

Before anyone posts, I have a few rules that I want to lay out. IF you're gonna tell me about altering my diet, or drinking a certain herb, please please please hold back and go post in the holistic section. Diet is such a personal topic. For 4 months last year, all I did was basically eat veggies and drink water. On top of feeling like crap for having acne, I felt even shittier due to being so deprived of essential foods. It was honestly one of the most self-destructive times of my life: thinking it was all my fault for having acne. Yes, diet may play a role, but I refuse to live the way I did in order to get clear skin. FOR ME, I think my diet is good enough. It suits me and I want to keep it that way. I eat a lot of vegetables to begin with, but I will NEVER make myself feel guilty for eating a slice of bread or cheese. So I thought LONG AND HARD about settling for Western medicine to TREAT my acne. Yes, I know it's no cure, but I'm not looking for a cure. Like I said, life is too damn short to get to the "root cause" of something as annoyingly complicated as acne!!!! I'm only in my early 20s, and I wanna live through at least the next decade with as little stress in regards to my skin.

Like I said, this is my personal choice to go on birth control. So ladies, let's talk about the pill!!!!

I've been to a dermatologist and she prescribed me Diane 35. I've also seen my regular GP to get blood work done, and he prescribed me Yasmin.
NOW, I really don't know which pill to choose from.
I'm from Canada and both pills have awful reputations here. Both increase the risk of blood clots.

I know every woman's body is different, and at the end of the day, only trial and error will tell which pill is the best for me.
I've been REALLY inclined to take Yasmin because a lot of women who got clear on it seem to like the same topicals as I do. I have always liked Benzoyl Peroxide. Benzaclin is probably the best topical out there, and it kept me clear for 2.5 years (and I mean, immaculately disturbingly clear). However, as I turned 21 and the stress levels got to me, my hormones spiked and topicals can no longer do their thing. But anyway, I digress. Many Yaz/Yasmin ladies SEEM to like BP (Duac, Benzaclin, Acne.org's BP) and this leads me to believe that maybe my body chemistry is similar to theirs, thus my chances of getting clear on Yaz/Yasmin are quite high. I know that sounds completely unscientific, but who knows, right? As a sidenote, all my friends who take Ortho Tri Cyclen swear by Clinique, and I LOATHE Clinique.

My question for all the ladies on BCPs is:
1. What BCP are you on?
2. What is your topical regimen like?
3. How clear are you on your current BCP? (100%, 90%??)
4. How much do you like your BCP? Are you thinking about switching anytime soon, or are you satisfied with it?

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP ME OUT! I need ALL the babes on BCPs to reply and reassure me that everything will be alright. Especially the ones on Yaz/Yasmin/Diane.

Also, my acne is mild. If you look at me, it's barely noticeable (I have a lot of scarring, though, but those go away eventually and makeup can hide them for the time being). I have about 4 small cysts that are not noticeable at all. But I can feel them (jawline). I'm also really really tiny. I'm only about 4'9 and just under 100 lbs (I haven't weighed myself in years, but I'm definitely skinnier now due to that depressing diet I did for 4 months). I'm not sure if this matters, but maybe a lower dose pill (Yaz) is more suited for my body?

I'm driving myself crazy with all these thoughts. I'm terrified of the initial breakout too! Someone tell me it's all going to be okay!!!!

#2 Ivy.

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 06:36 PM

Your post sounds super excited tongue.gif wish I felt that enthusiastic right now.

I'm actually trying the whole diet thing right now...veggies...fruit...water etc...and I can relate to your post. I'm 85 pounds and 5'3....I feel so shitty looking at all the food I cant eat right now because of my acne. It's depressing me even more.

as for birth control iv never been on it either....but from what I have read it's only a temporary solution because once it is stopped the acne comes right back. I'm not sure if i'd want to have to take something like that for a long time due to the side effects etc

#3 asar

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 07:39 PM

Girls, I have been there. I have done that diet thing and tried to avoid food. It didn't help me at all. It all started with me getting a nasty pimple or two, and me deciding that I have had enough junk. I started avoiding a lot of food and became Vitamin D deficient, and my acne only got worse. Where as before, i did not get much hormonal stuff, i started getting more and more painful one with my healthy veggie and fruit diet. I started losing a lotttt of weight, became very depressed. My immune system weakened, my stress level shot up, my life quality declined, I started fearing foodm and my acne just got worse. Then I just gave up this whole freaking healthy diet, and started eating normal. I realized that when your weight shifts suddenly because of silly diets that tend to ignore some nutrition, you end up altering your hormones too. As I started losing essential fat, I also started losing estrogen with it.

Anyway, long story short, keep enjoying food. Dont go on a food spree and start consuming tons of sodas and junk food all the time, but do eat everything.

About BCP? I wanna ask why BCP??? why not SPIRONOLACTONE!!!! whistling.gif) It isn't a BCP, and its side effects are usually not long lasting or that harmful. Have you considered spiro???

#4 BeadyB

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 08:22 PM

My question for all the ladies on BCPs is:

1. What BCP are you on?
The generic of Desogen. Called Reclipsen. About 4/5 months?

2. What is your topical regimen like?
Wash face with Aveen Ultra Calming cleanser. Tone with Organic witch hazel/no alcohol. Moisturize with a different things (Cant stick to one that i like) Spot treat...used to be Acanya but I developed an allergy to BP so I'm trying sulfur...


3. How clear are you on your current BCP? (100%, 90%??)
I was about 99% but suffered a horrible breakout from the BP reaction. I was prefectly clear. sad.gif Now I have scabs and it hasn't stopped.

4. How much do you like your BCP? Are you thinking about switching anytime soon, or are you satisfied with it?
I'm satisfied with it. I used to become paranoid about getting a blood clot everytime I got a bruise on my leg, but my body has fully adjusted I think and I feel fine. I like the price as well. I kinda wish I could just take it forever and skip my periods, but I'm scared about that too.

P.S. I lost A LOT of weight too from stress/diet paranoia/major depression. I personally think (no scientific evidence of couse) that a healthy weight is necessary for the pill to work with your body. I dropped down to 98 pounds from 115. I'm still trying to gain the weight back...



#5 Geeking

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 08:38 PM

My question for all the ladies on BCPs is:
1. What BCP are you on?
Caziant [A generic of Cylessa I think]

2. What is your topical regimen like?
Cetaphil cleaner.
Benzaclin and Retin-A
Cetaphil moisturizer
Every night for the past few weeks I've been using the Clarisonic Mia as an exfoliator

3. How clear are you on your current BCP? (100%, 90%??)
Pft. I'm not really clear at all, only my forehead is. I was seeing great results in December but with school I've gotten stressed and ugh it's awful.

4. How much do you like your BCP? Are you thinking about switching anytime soon, or are you satisfied with it?
I've been on it for like 8 months, maybe 9. I like it actually I haven't experienced any side effects and I LOVE having a light period and knowing when it's coming!


#6 theComfyCat

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 09:50 AM

1. What BCP are you on?
I'm currently on Ortho Cyclen (for almost 6 months). This is a monophasic BCP, meaning the hormone levels don't change each week, as they do with the multiphasic ones like Ortho Tri Cyclen. I also take 50mg of spironolactone each day.

In the past I've taken Ortho Tri Cyclen (for a couple years, but it didn't help my skin much), Seasonale (for three months, but it gave me horrible mood swings and didn't help my skin), and Yasmin (for I think 4 months, but it made me break out). My doctor had prescribed the Yasmin because she said most of her patients have great luck with it improving their skin.

2. What is your topical regimen like?
I use Retin-A micro infrequently, and mostly use a glycolic face/ body wash. I just use the topicals these days to help the leftover red/brown marks fade.

3. How clear are you on your current BCP? (100%, 90%??)
99.9% (I get maybe one little white head occasionally)

4. How much do you like your BCP? Are you thinking about switching anytime soon, or are you satisfied with it?
I've finally found one that doesn't give me side effects and makes me clear with the help of the spiro. I'll have to be dragged kicking and screaming away from it now. It was a process of trial and error for me, though.

#7 20something20

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 03:09 PM

I was on Diane for years. It did an amazing job at clearing my acne, but I started noticing I began to develop some major cellulite! I am a very thin girl, eat healthy and work-out a lot. So I was pretty sure it was related to Diane. I am now off it for 3 months and it's looking much better already. I quit for 2 months all together and am now in my first month of Yaz, so it's too soon to evaluate how it's doing on my acne.

You should know that on top of giving your body extra estrogens, Diane kills all androgen recepters, the ones of your sebaceous glands but ALSO those responsible for water retention (causing cellulite). Yasmine and Yaz contain a hormone similar to spiro. It only blocks certain androgen receptors (diminishing sebum production and hair growth but not messing with the water retention). For some this might not be an issue, but if you gain weight or devellop cellulite, just remember it could be related to Diane. Luckily it goes away once you stop.



#8 FilhadeDeus

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 02:26 PM

Hey gals!

Thank you sooo much for all the input!

Ivy, asar, and BeadyB-- I hear ya on the losing weight thing. I've always loved my body regardless of what size it is (FYI, I tend to have a stable weight. I don't really fluctuate in size), but seeing myself look like a skeleton was one of the most disturbing things I had to go through in my life. And my acne actually got even worse! I lost 10 pounds in one month alone. I looked so sickly. And as asar said, I think I began losing a lot of estrogen too!
I'm not big on sodas. I gave that up since I was 10, coz' it makes my stomach hurt. I only ever drink water and tea. I've always liked vegetables too. But I am NOT going to deprive myself of comfort foods every once in a while.

Also, I actually need the birth control because my cycles are SO irregular (thanks depressing diet of '10). It wouldn't hurt that it has the possibility of clearing my skin.
I'm not going to jump to conclusions and say that I have a hormonal imbalance (PCOS). I'm taking this one day at a time. I'm never putting myself through hell of believing everything this site says about how milk breaks you out. And toothpaste breaks you out. And breathing breaks you out. And having a sibling breaks you out (hahaha).

Geeking, aww girl, I'm sure you're being hard on yourself! I'm sure all your friends and family must think you're one hell of a hottie anyway, so a few pimples shouldn't be a big deal, right?
Cut down on the stress! Life is too short to think negatively. I need to take that to heart too. Any movies you recommend? I know that's so random, but I loooove watching movies, but have really cut back in the past few months due to all this acne shit.
theComfyCat, I read your log last night, and I'm so happy that you're enjoying life with clear skin! It must feel amazing!!!!!!!!!!! 20something20, I've heard that Diane is the miracle pill that will banish acne. Honestly, if I knew that Diane worked so well for me, and I experienced no side effects from it, I would take the pill FOREVER. Yes, forever. I don't plan on having children anyway (I'd rather adopt... there are way too many children out there without proper care). I know it's probably very hazardous to your health in the long run since it's such a strong pill, but like I said, I would totally stay on it forever if it worked so well for me. If I was forced to come off it, I would probably just immigrate to an abandoned island and enjoy my life swimming and raising my adopted child! Hahahaha, I have such an imagination!

Anyway, anymore ladies on the pill? All the babes on Diane/Yaz/Yasmin, don't be shy! I actually DO need your input. Try to answer the survey questions I had in my first post.

Thanks so much!!!!!!!!!!

Oh also, I don't mind the weight gain so much, as long as it's not overwhelmingly significant. If it's 5-10 pounds, I'll deal. Besides, I like being curvy. Cellulite? Hmmm.... well, I guess you can't have everything. To me, that's a small price to pay for having clear skin. Although, I hope it only shows up on my ass, since no one can see that anyway!
I would love to have my boobs get bigger! I used to wear a full 34B, but now honestly, due to that depressing diet, I'm being very cocky when I say my boobs look like mosquito bites. VERYYYYY COCKY.

Edited by FilhadeDeus, 22 February 2011 - 02:43 PM.


#9 vanillacupcake

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 07:32 PM

1. What BCP are you on?
Ocella, the generic version of Yaz, I started on Yaz about 3 years ago and switched to Ocella about a year after that. Definetly pick BCP that has a 7 day period cycle. Yaz is a 4 day, and after a year my body freaked out and I got my period for about 3 weeks. Thats when I switched to Ocella.

2. What is your topical regimen like?
I use Ziana before bed.

3. How clear are you on your current BCP? (100%, 90%??)
Pretty much 100% clear.

4. How much do you like your BCP? Are you thinking about switching anytime soon, or are you satisfied with it?
Its ok, I never really used for acne reasons and I would like to switch to NuvaRing so I wouldn't have to take a pill every day. In all honesty, i think i was more clear before BCP. I've had some rough times acne wise since I started on BCP. However, I'm not sure if that's due to some other type of change or the actual BCP? I've been on it so long I can't remember if I had an IB or not but I'm pretty sure I didnt!

#10 lyssgirl

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Posted 22 February 2011 - 10:13 PM

take spironolactone!! I have been on it for 8 months and its a miracle smile.gif

#11 asar

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 09:09 PM

QUOTE (lyssgirl @ Feb 22 2011, 11:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
take spironolactone!! I have been on it for 8 months and its a miracle smile.gif

Yup, I will say the same. Take spironolactone!! if you can deal with the irregular periods though. But everyone is different. And the good thing is once you want to come off spiro, you dont have much side effects i.e messed up periods. You pretty much go back to normal. I am planning to stay on spiro until I decide to have a baby.
I do have crazy periods though cuz I am not taking a BCP and not planning to either.

#12 Geeking

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 09:26 PM

QUOTE (FilhadeDeus @ Feb 22 2011, 02:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Geeking, aww girl, I'm sure you're being hard on yourself! I'm sure all your friends and family must think you're one hell of a hottie anyway, so a few pimples shouldn't be a big deal, right?
Cut down on the stress! Life is too short to think negatively. I need to take that to heart too. Any movies you recommend? I know that's so random, but I loooove watching movies, but have really cut back in the past few months due to all this acne shit.


Haha aww that was fun to read, makes me feel better today smile.gif Thanks for that, I've been thinking very negatively lately.

Movies? Hmmmm. Boy A is really great,I've seen quite a few great movies this past year but I can't remember any of them right now!?

#13 FilhadeDeus

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Posted 27 February 2011 - 01:34 PM

I also have a little problem.
My skin is actually not oily. My tzone is oily, but I would say it's normal oily. My cheeks are very normal. Throughout the whole day, my cheeks never secrete oil. But in the past year, I've been getting breakouts there. They're not painful breakouts though... mainly just zits, I guess, but they're sooo bothersome.

Will BCP just trigger an acne flare up because of this?

Also, I'm scared to take Spiro because like I said, my menstrual cycles are already so irregular, and this month, I barely bled. It was more like spotting, I guess.
I've never had cramps growing up. But since I turned 17 (5 years ago), I would probably get one every year... but nothing like what other girls usually go through. Mine lasts for a maximum of 2 hours.
However, my biggest hormonal sign that I'm gonna have my period soon is I get breast tenderness. Not severe as if someone threw a brick at my breasts, but nonetheless uncomfortable.

I'm wondering if this is even hormonal acne, or just regular zits. My derm seems to think it's hormonal though, since it's located on the lower half of my face.

Please help me decide. eusa_pray.gif

#14 Jessicauofw

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 04:00 AM

My question for all the ladies on BCPs is:
1. What BCP are you on?
- NONE! The pill is the devil....the side effects are rotten and for some chicks getting off the pill makes your skin 10 times worse than before you started. In the past I've been on Demulen 1/35 and Ortho Tri Cyclen......both were created in hell to make me turn into a hormonal anger raging bitch......although "everyone responds differently" so you might not experience those same symptoms.

2. What is your topical regimen like?
- I wash my face ONCE a day and moisturize like crazy with Avene Light Hydrating Cream and Avene Skin Recovery Cream (Rich Formula) when it's super dry. I'm anti-make up....no make up what-so-ever, especially foundation (clogs pores)!

3. How clear are you on your current BCP? (100%, 90%??)
- On the pill 100% clear until 2 years into taking it......then it dropped to about 80%.....I got off the pill and now my face is around 98% clear.

4. How much do you like your BCP? Are you thinking about switching anytime soon, or are you satisfied with it?
- I have nothing positive to say about birth control pills other than it's the responsible thing to take in order to prevent a mini human, other than that I find it's useless and dangerous. I don't respond well to the pill at all.........Demulen made my blood pressure sky rocket to 155/115 which is heart attack range and Ortho Tri Cyclen made me throw chairs and tables across my living room, I was psycho.......My doctor actually refuses to prescribe me any type of pill although he did say he'd give me Yasmin (only because every script a GP can fill made by Bayer company, the makers of Yasmin, they get some sort of profit from that.....vested interest if you will).





#15 Jessicauofw

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 04:06 AM

My question for all the ladies on BCPs is:
1. What BCP are you on?
- NONE! The pill is the devil....the side effects are rotten and for some chicks getting off the pill makes your skin 10 times worse than before you started. In the past I've been on Demulen 1/35 and Ortho Tri Cyclen......both were created in hell to make me turn into a hormonal anger raging bitch......although "everyone responds differently" so you might not experience those same symptoms.

2. What is your topical regimen like?
- I wash my face ONCE a day and moisturize like crazy with Avene Light Hydrating Cream and Avene Skin Recovery Cream (Rich Formula) when it's super dry. I'm anti-make up....no make up what-so-ever, especially foundation (clogs pores)!

3. How clear are you on your current BCP? (100%, 90%??)
- On the pill 100% clear until 2 years into taking it......then it dropped to about 80%.....I got off the pill and now my face is around 98% clear.

4. How much do you like your BCP? Are you thinking about switching anytime soon, or are you satisfied with it?
- I have nothing positive to say about birth control pills other than it's the responsible thing to take in order to prevent a mini human, other than that I find it's useless and dangerous. I don't respond well to the pill at all.........Demulen made my blood pressure sky rocket to 155/115 which is heart attack range and Ortho Tri Cyclen made me throw chairs and tables across my living room, I was psycho.......My doctor actually refuses to prescribe me any type of pill although he did say he'd give me Yasmin (only because every script a GP can fill made by Bayer company, the makers of Yasmin, they get some sort of profit from that.....vested interest if you will).





#16 Jessicauofw

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 04:06 AM

My question for all the ladies on BCPs is:
1. What BCP are you on?
- NONE! The pill is the devil....the side effects are rotten and for some chicks getting off the pill makes your skin 10 times worse than before you started. In the past I've been on Demulen 1/35 and Ortho Tri Cyclen......both were created in hell to make me turn into a hormonal anger raging bitch......although "everyone responds differently" so you might not experience those same symptoms.

2. What is your topical regimen like?
- I wash my face ONCE a day and moisturize like crazy with Avene Light Hydrating Cream and Avene Skin Recovery Cream (Rich Formula) when it's super dry. I'm anti-make up....no make up what-so-ever, especially foundation (clogs pores)!

3. How clear are you on your current BCP? (100%, 90%??)
- On the pill 100% clear until 2 years into taking it......then it dropped to about 80%.....I got off the pill and now my face is around 98% clear.

4. How much do you like your BCP? Are you thinking about switching anytime soon, or are you satisfied with it?
- I have nothing positive to say about birth control pills other than it's the responsible thing to take in order to prevent a mini human, other than that I find it's useless and dangerous. I don't respond well to the pill at all.........Demulen made my blood pressure sky rocket to 155/115 which is heart attack range and Ortho Tri Cyclen made me throw chairs and tables across my living room, I was psycho.......My doctor actually refuses to prescribe me any type of pill although he did say he'd give me Yasmin (only because every script a GP can fill made by Bayer company, the makers of Yasmin, they get some sort of profit from that.....vested interest if you will).





#17 Jessicauofw

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 04:06 AM

My question for all the ladies on BCPs is:
1. What BCP are you on?
- NONE! The pill is the devil....the side effects are rotten and for some chicks getting off the pill makes your skin 10 times worse than before you started. In the past I've been on Demulen 1/35 and Ortho Tri Cyclen......both were created in hell to make me turn into a hormonal anger raging bitch......although "everyone responds differently" so you might not experience those same symptoms.

2. What is your topical regimen like?
- I wash my face ONCE a day and moisturize like crazy with Avene Light Hydrating Cream and Avene Skin Recovery Cream (Rich Formula) when it's super dry. I'm anti-make up....no make up what-so-ever, especially foundation (clogs pores)!

3. How clear are you on your current BCP? (100%, 90%??)
- On the pill 100% clear until 2 years into taking it......then it dropped to about 80%.....I got off the pill and now my face is around 98% clear.

4. How much do you like your BCP? Are you thinking about switching anytime soon, or are you satisfied with it?
- I have nothing positive to say about birth control pills other than it's the responsible thing to take in order to prevent a mini human, other than that I find it's useless and dangerous. I don't respond well to the pill at all.........Demulen made my blood pressure sky rocket to 155/115 which is heart attack range and Ortho Tri Cyclen made me throw chairs and tables across my living room, I was psycho.......My doctor actually refuses to prescribe me any type of pill although he did say he'd give me Yasmin (only because every script a GP can fill made by Bayer company, the makers of Yasmin, they get some sort of profit from that.....vested interest if you will).





#18 Jessicauofw

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 04:06 AM

My question for all the ladies on BCPs is:
1. What BCP are you on?
- NONE! The pill is the devil....the side effects are rotten and for some chicks getting off the pill makes your skin 10 times worse than before you started. In the past I've been on Demulen 1/35 and Ortho Tri Cyclen......both were created in hell to make me turn into a hormonal anger raging bitch......although "everyone responds differently" so you might not experience those same symptoms.

2. What is your topical regimen like?
- I wash my face ONCE a day and moisturize like crazy with Avene Light Hydrating Cream and Avene Skin Recovery Cream (Rich Formula) when it's super dry. I'm anti-make up....no make up what-so-ever, especially foundation (clogs pores)!

3. How clear are you on your current BCP? (100%, 90%??)
- On the pill 100% clear until 2 years into taking it......then it dropped to about 80%.....I got off the pill and now my face is around 98% clear.

4. How much do you like your BCP? Are you thinking about switching anytime soon, or are you satisfied with it?
- I have nothing positive to say about birth control pills other than it's the responsible thing to take in order to prevent a mini human, other than that I find it's useless and dangerous. I don't respond well to the pill at all.........Demulen made my blood pressure sky rocket to 155/115 which is heart attack range and Ortho Tri Cyclen made me throw chairs and tables across my living room, I was psycho.......My doctor actually refuses to prescribe me any type of pill although he did say he'd give me Yasmin (only because every script a GP can fill made by Bayer company, the makers of Yasmin, they get some sort of profit from that.....vested interest if you will).





#19 Jessicauofw

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 04:08 AM

wow....I super apologize for posting that 5 times!

#20 mazzlet

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  • Joined: 16-June 05

Posted 06 March 2011 - 02:33 AM

1. What BCP are you on?

Diane 35. I was on it for 8 years. I had a 2 month break and have been back on it now for 6.5 months.

2. What is your topical regimen like?

I wash with a sheseido foaming facial wash.

In the morning I use a Vitamin C serum, followed by cetaphil moisturiser/sunscreen
At night I use a retinol serum, followed by cetaphil moisturiser.

NOTE: I only use these products for the overall health of my skin, not for acne. On the pill I do not need to use any products and I still remain 100% clear (I have gone for long periods just cleansing and moisturising and do not break out). On Diane 35 I can also use pretty much any product on my skin without breaking out (which was definitely not the case before I went on it).


3. How clear are you on your current BCP? (100%, 90%??)

I was 100% clear on Diane for 8 years. After a 2 month break I started breaking out again, so I went back on Diane. It has taken me 6.5 months, but I am now 100% clear again.

4. How much do you like your BCP? Are you thinking about switching anytime soon, or are you satisfied with it?


I love it, but am scared to go off it because I know I will break out again. I have never experienced any negative side effects on it. Made periods much more manageable too (hardly any bleeding). I call Diane a magic pill, and it is - until you want to get off it.