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#21 Sam The Man

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Posted 22 August 2004 - 12:18 PM

QUOTE (evigrex @ Aug 22 2004, 05:34 PM)
When the body runs out of glycogen stores to fuel exercise (and this happens very quickly when running, since its a very high intensity exercise) it turns to muslce and fat.  The higher intensity the exercise, the more amino acids and protein is taken from muscles for energy.  This is all common knowledge among the scientific community - if you want me to post studies, ill post a ton of them.  Or you can do your own homework.

Define intensity. Weight training is high intensity training if we look at the heart rate. Do a 5 rep squat set to concentric failure and you'll know what I mean.

Glycogen turns to muscle and fat?

#22 evigrex

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Posted 22 August 2004 - 01:01 PM

Weight lifting works the muscles with resistance. Resistance causes muscle hypertrophy.

Running is not a resistance exercise, except for very very slight resistance on the hamstrings. That is not enough to offset catabolism caused from excessive running.

Sam: what I meant was, once glycogen stores are depleted, the body will use amino acids and protein from muscle tissue for energy.

#23 evigrex

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Posted 22 August 2004 - 01:05 PM

Let me throw the perfect example out there: Lance Armstrong. Ever see how he looks like a stick figure? Its because he does endurance training without concurrent resistance training. Hes had massive muscle atrophy from years of bicycling without lifting weights.

#24 LoveGreenSmoothies

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Posted 22 August 2004 - 02:29 PM

Didn't he also have cancer?

#25 WeCanDoThis

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Posted 22 August 2004 - 04:58 PM

QUOTE (evigrex @ Aug 22 2004, 04:34 PM)
Look, if you dont know what the hell youre talking about, dont even type it. When the body runs out of glycogen stores to fuel exercise (and this happens very quickly when running, since its a very high intensity exercise) it turns to muslce and fat. The higher intensity the exercise, the more amino acids and protein is taken from muscles for energy. This is all common knowledge among the scientific community - if you want me to post studies, ill post a ton of them. Or you can do your own homework.

First of all, you are assuming that all glycogen in the body is used up in training - which is not nescessarily so.
Secondly, after the glycogen is used the body will turn to fat for energy and only if that resource is exhausted will the body break down muscle tissue.
However, as your training progresses your body will be able to store more glucogen in the muscles and liver.
Furthermore, if you are well trained person your body will use more fat as a energy resource than glycogen compared to an unfit person.
Of course, I will agree that you have to give the body time to recover from training so it doesnt break down muscle tissue.

Having said that, please go ahead and post a ton of articles stating that the body will break down muscle tissue before fat; I haven't seen any researcher state that so it would be interesting to see.



#26 WeCanDoThis

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Posted 22 August 2004 - 05:08 PM

QUOTE (natoooo @ Aug 22 2004, 05:39 PM)
yes i am running and stil lam running about 3~4 miles every other day for about 3 months... even though it dosetn clear acne it just helps me with my training for track. and... not many people run 5~10 miles every day....

Who said every day?

In my previous post, I suggest 5-10 miles 3-4 times a week.

You shouldn't run long distances every day, because your body needs time to restitute. If you don't have breaks, your musle tissue will be broken down instead of getting stronger which I think is the point evigrex is trying to make with which I completely agree.

However if you take breaks you will not have this problem, but it is of course different from each individual how much restitution time is needed.

#27 evigrex

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Posted 22 August 2004 - 05:21 PM

QUOTE (WeCanDoThis @ Aug 22 2004, 03:45 PM)
QUOTE (evigrex @ Aug 22 2004, 04:34 PM)
Look, if you dont know what the hell youre talking about, dont even type it.   When the body runs out of glycogen stores to fuel exercise (and this happens very quickly when running, since its a very high intensity exercise) it turns to muslce and fat.   The higher intensity the exercise, the more amino acids and protein is taken from muscles for energy.   This is all common knowledge among the scientific community - if you want me to post studies, ill post a ton of them.  Or you can do your own homework.

First of all, you are assuming that all glycogen in the body is used up in training - which is not nescessarily so.
Secondly, after the glycogen is used the body will turn to fat for energy and only if that resource is exhausted will the body break down muscle tissue.
However, as your training progresses your body will be able to store more glucogen in the muscles and liver.
Furthermore, if you are well trained person your body will use more fat as a energy resource than glycogen compared to an unfit person.
Of course, I will agree that you have to give the body time to recover from training so it doesnt break down muscle tissue.

Having said that, please go ahead and post a ton of articles stating that the body will break down muscle tissue before fat; I haven't seen any researcher state that so it would be interesting to see.

Heh, so how the hell is a non-resistance exercise supposed to cause muscle hypertrophy? Is running going to give you bigger quadriceps? Now explaining THAT would be interesting. Anyway, I saw two studies in the past showing that high intensity running (for a duration of more than 10 or so minutes) will deplete glycogen stores and acquires energy from fat and muscle equally, 50/50. Muscle isnt necessarily used before fat, I never said that....but muscle atrophy DOES OCCUR.

Either way youre wrong, because running is not a resistance exercise. Running faster is a result of a more efficient cardiovascular system, it has little to do with muscular/strenght gains in the legs.

#28 BenKweller

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Posted 22 August 2004 - 06:23 PM

QUOTE
Running faster is a result of a more efficient cardiovascular system, it has little to do with muscular/strenght gains in the legs.


Completely wrong. I'm not an expert on glucose or whatnot but efficient leg muscles which are more flexible greatly affect speed.

#29 evigrex

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Posted 22 August 2004 - 08:25 PM

QUOTE (BenKweller @ Aug 22 2004, 05:10 PM)
QUOTE
Running faster is a result of a more efficient cardiovascular system, it has little to do with muscular/strenght gains in the legs.


Completely wrong. I'm not an expert on glucose or whatnot but efficient leg muscles which are more flexible greatly affect speed.



I really wish people that dont know what theyre talking about...wouldnt bother typing. Have you ever seen a 200 or 250 pound weightlifter/powerlifter with 5% bodyfat try to run a mile? Gimme a break. They cant make it 200 feet without huffing and puffing. According to your argument, these guys should run marathons.

I repeat : RUNNING IMPROVES THE EFFICIENCY OF THE CARDIOVASCULAR SYSTEM. THIS IS KEY TO ENDURANCE RUNNING.

With repeated running, the following happens:

The following abilities improve:

the ability to breath with large and deep (large volume) breaths (ventilation rate),

the ability to transfer that oxygen through the lungs to the blood (respiratory rate)

an efficient pump to drive the blood to the sites of action

efficient control systems to keep the pump working regularly (nervous system)

good open pathways (arteries and veins) to convey the blood

efficient recipients in the blood to carry the oxygen (red corpuscles)

efficient transfer to storage in the muscles (the myoglobin)

an efficient process for transfer to the mitochondria



HAVING strong quads/hamstrings will hamper running ability, if anything.

#30 WeCanDoThis

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 03:09 PM

anywayz...

all that really matters is that cardio exercise - like running - can help control acne

#31 evigrex

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 05:28 PM

Even better, getting "runners high" - the adrenaline and endorphin rush after running track for a few miles is awesome. I lived for that when I ran regularly.

#32 L

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 01:12 AM

evigrex is right....

running long distance will hinder your progress if your looking to gain muscle...

ever notice how long distance runners are stick figures and short distance runners are always jacked?

anyway back to the topic: i agree running is a great stress reliever but in my experience it has not had any affect on my skin

#33 kel

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 06:26 AM

i used to love running i was great at it when i was a few years younger,when i started getting acne i was so self concious of my skin getting all hot and sweaty that i stopped,i stoped for other reasons to but this was one that was on my mind to.

i dont really do much working out as my skin has started to get better and my doctor told me not to get sweaty as this can make acne worse,so i havent done any thing other than walking,but listening to you guys im wondering if im infact wrong to be doing this.
#i mean i was my face twice a day with ehe bp and moisteriser as well ,so if i excercise and get all sweaty wont i have to wash my face agian after to avoid breakouts? and then isint it to much washing? im unsure what to do here.

#34 WeCanDoThis

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 06:42 AM

QUOTE (kel @ Aug 24 2004, 02:13 PM)
i dont really do much working out as my skin has started to get better and my doctor told me not to get sweaty as this can make acne worse.

Firstly, since acne is still an enigma to the medical community, how can your doctor give you such an "advice"?

Secondly, since cardio exercise is good for your physical and mental health in countless ways (as Im sure you have experienced first hand when U used to run) it kinda makes me wonder why he would say such a thing.

The only thing for you to do is try it out for yourself and see how it works for you.

#35 WeCanDoThis

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 09:01 AM

QUOTE (L @ Aug 24 2004, 08:59 AM)
running long distance will hinder your progress if your looking to gain muscle...

ever notice how long distance runners are stick figures and short distance runners are always jacked? 


you are talking about elite long distance runners.

Im talking about running 15-30 km a week which is gonna provide stronger muscle tissue provided you take days out to restitute (run one day rest the next for instance).

#36 evigrex

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 11:30 AM

How are you defining stronger? Running is not a resistance exercise, and short distance runners don't magically become "jacked" from running. Running will convert fast twitch muscle fibers to slow twitch to make them more efficient (but does not increase absolute resistance strength) for the exercise...but they will NOT hypertrophy (enlarge). Resistance is required for muscle hypertrophy.

#37 WeCanDoThis

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Posted 10 September 2004 - 10:01 AM

Anyways...

All I can say is, "Run, Run, Run" .. It really does help.

Plus you get all the extra physical and mental benefits that various people mentioned earlier on this thread. bb_eusa_dance.gif



#38 Yaakman

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 03:45 PM

endorphin baby its a great feeling

#39 Maverick

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 03:55 PM

I don't like to bring up my personal life, but this just calls for it. I'm a scholarship collegiate distance runner, competing for an excellent program. I run roughly 80-100 miles a week, plus core work and strength training and am still dealing with acne. Also, many of my teammates have acne as well. Plus, many of the distance runners I know do as well. So, how you can state that it controls acne for most people is beyond me. Exercise helps, but don't go claiming it as "the key to clear skin for most people". Please.

#40 Yaakman

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Posted 12 September 2004 - 08:24 PM

he is 100% correct