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I have a question on a liver cleanse...

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All I know is under those "guidelines" someone who has an allergy processed sugars (and would therefore never even touch them) couldn't possibly get acne... right?

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Sure.  I KNOW and have POSTED repeatedly the scientific studies to back it up.  I will say it again, for certain individuals, at least 60 among the acne boards that I'm aware of, not to mention those on other chronic health & hormonal disorder boards, that avoidance of such a diet gives one anyway between 95% - 100% clear skin.  Heck, medications and topicals couldm't even give me that.  ;-)

I'm intrigued - if it's just sugar and junk food that we need to avoid, in this case, where does the non-high carb/dairy/etc/etc diet (i.e. other foods we need to avoid) come into it? Or is that classed under the title of 'junk food' as well? bb_icon_confused.gif

Thanks. smile.gif


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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Here is some stuff of nutrition and hormones from Volek, who is pretty respected guy from what I've heard. It seems to say that high-fat meals decrease total and free testosterone levels. But it also states that studies have shown that acute elevations in insulin do not affect total or free testosterone levels in healthy normal normal weight men or women. Of course I don't know what they consider to be a healthy person. smile.gif

Who wants to be normal? Who wants normal results? We want to be exceptional. Exceptions confirm what is not normal

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World famous dermatologist Dr. Perricone wrote a book on the acne/diet connection. I cannot believe that this is even open for discussion.

Dr. Perricone's book on acne has before/after pics, as well as a lot of scientific evidence pointing to the connection between diet and acne.

If you believe that the famous, brilliant, Dr. Perricone doesn't know what he's talking about, then please provide a more sensible hypothesis about what causes acne.

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Denise, according to what he said in some other post, Ben doesn't believe in at least, Perricone's views on this.

I was skimming through his book the other night and he says that he hopes more doctors will investigate the effects of cytokines in what they define as "pre-inflammatory" acne, instead of only focusing on what they define as inflammatory or cystic acne. He believes that all acne is inflammatory and even explains his reasons so.


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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If you believe that the famous, brilliant, Dr. Perricone doesn't know what he's talking about, then please provide a more sensible hypothesis about what causes acne.

Who wants to be normal? Who wants normal results? We want to be exceptional. Exceptions confirm what is not normal

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Sam,

Hey thanks for posting that article. I'm really interested in learning how one can work the system in order to gain wieght or build muscle mass while still following an acne diet of some sort. ;-)

Bear in mind though that this is studying those that lift wieghts or work out, which the average person doesn't do to such an extent as body builders do.

"To date, the majority of research has concentrated on providing carbohydrate alone or combined with protein before or after resistance exercise. Carbohydrate and protein intake significantly alters circulating metabolites and the hormonal milieu (i.e., insulin, testosterone, growth hormone, and cortisol), as well as the response of muscle protein and glycogen balance."

These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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Sam,

Yeah Volek mentions SHBG, but he doesn't study it's role in this article. Dr. Perricone mentions for the sake of simplcity, "hormones" instead of going into my usual speal as to what hormones are produced, and why, etc ;-)

All steroids are derived from enzyme breakdown of cholesterol. Androgens are sex steroids which structurally have 19 carbons. There are 7 total androgens: dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), delta 5 androstenediol, androsterone, delta 5 androstanediol, delta 4 androstendione, testosterone and dihydrotestosterone. The other sex steroids are estrogens with 18 carbons.

Androgens are synthesized in the:gonad (ovary or testicle) from cholesterol; adrenal gland from cholesterol and periphery from DHEA. Androgens are as natural to women as are estrogens. Androgens have actions on multiple areas of the body including bone, muscle, skin, liver, kidney, brain, immune system, bone marrow and genital organs. Contemporary evidence is accumulating from animal/human studies that androgens are critical for male and female sexual function - desire, arousal, orgasm function. The exact mechanism of action of androgens on the body may involve synthesis of critical sex steroid dependent proteins or growth factors which act on the nerves, arteries, smooth muscles and connective tissue of the genitals maintaining structure and function.

Androgen values consistently decrease with age in both genders. By age 40 - 50, men and women have less than half of the DHEA and testosterone they had at age 20 years. Andorgen insufficiency: can be Gonadal (chemo- or radiation-therapy, oophorectomy), Adrenal (adrenal failure or insufficiency), Hypothalamic-Pituitary (hypopituitarism), Drug-Related (corticosteroids, anti-androgenic agents, oral contraceptive pill, oral estrogen therapies) and Idiopathic (age-related). It may indicate or be related to other medical, psychiatric or psychosocial factors such as (i) a major life stress or relationship conflict (ii) thyroid disease, (iii) major metabolic/nutritional disorders or other causes of chronic fatigue, psychiatric disorders such as major depressive disorder, or other conditions or factors.

SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) is elevated in many of these syndromes.

Free testosterone is equal to the total testosterone divided by the free testosterone. In patients with elevated SHBG values, total testosterone values have to be elevated to even higher values, so that free testosterone values are adequate. Production of SHBG is highly estrogen sensitive: oral intake of estrogen results in a profound dose-dependant INCREASE in SHBG. Conditions in women where androgen values are associated with decreased activity of critical enzymes include sexual dysfunction after childbirth and sexual dysfunction associated with the transition and the menopause. Oral contraceptives are associated with decreased ovarian synthesis of testosterone and increased synthesis of SHBG. In women, estrogen medications are associated with increased synthesis of SHBG. In women, lupron, zoladex medications are associated with decreased ovarian synthesis of testosterone. http://www.bumc.bu.edu/Departments/PageMai...epartmentID=371


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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When your thyroid doesn't produce enough hormone, you have hypothyroidism. I was diagnosed with it once. Out of curiosity, I tried looking up any links between this and acne.

On the following page

http://www.wholehealthchicago.com/healthco...ns/thyroid2.htm

it says that those with hypothyroidism should eat plenty of iodine-containing foods. Don't many people believe, though, that iodine may contribute to acne?

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Holly,

Yeah people tend to believe that because if you get TOO MUCH Iodine in your system it can aggravate skin conditions. However, the regular amounts we get from foods generally shouldn't be a problem as they don't reach such levels. So that's one thing I don't "stress" about, but everyone's sensitivity levels are different.

So logically one would think that it's hyperthyroidism that would cause this, but it's generally those that are Hypothyroid that have acne. If you are Hypothyroid, you obviously don't make enough, so the too much iodine theory wouldn't affect you. However, those that are Hypothyroid, don't produce enough Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), which is responsible for trapping that excess or Free Testosterone. That's at least one way, it's linked to acne.

Not quite related, but here's something scary, although if you belief in the overproliferative (growth) Cancerous effects of IGF-1 it makes sense!

Int J Epidemiol. 1993 Dec;22(6):1000-9.  Related Articles, Links 

Erratum in:

Int J Epidemiol 1994 Dec;23(6):1330.

The influence of medical conditions associated with hormones on the risk of breast cancer.

Moseson M, Koenig KL, Shore RE, Pasternack BS.

Department of Environmental Medicine, NYU Medical Center, NY 10010-2598.

Medical conditions related to hormonal abnormalities were investigated in a case-control study of breast cancer among women who attended a screening centre. Information was obtained by telephone interview regarding physician-diagnosed medical conditions such as thyroid or liver diseases, diabetes, and hypertension, as well as hirsutism, acne, galactorrhoea, and reproductive, menstrual, and gynaecological factors. Results are presented for 354 cases and 747 controls. Women with fertility problems who never succeeded in becoming pregnant were at significantly increased breast cancer risk (adjusted odds ratio [OR] = 3.5; 95% confidence interval [CI]:1.1-10.9). An elevated cancer risk was also associated with having excess body hair (OR = 1.5; 95% CI:1.0-2.3), or having excess body hair in addition to persistent adult acne (OR = 6.8; 95% CI:1.7-27.1). Recurrent amenorrhea (OR = 3.5; 95% CI:1.1-11.5), and a treated hyperthyroid condition (OR = 2.2; 95% CI:1.1-4.4) were significantly associated with risk. A non-significant elevation of risk was present for endometrial hyperplasia (OR = 1.8; 95% CI: 0.8-4.0). There was a suggestion of an association between a history of galactorrhoea and breast cancer risk (OR = 2.0; 95% CI:0.8-4.9) among premenopausal women. No associations were found with other medical or gynaecological factors. The possibility that some of these findings are due to chance cannot be excluded because of the problem of multiple comparisons.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...st_uids=8144280


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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My thyroid was inflamed when I was 14, causing it to produce too much hormone. A year later, I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism. I had acne through both. My acne only cleared up when I got on birth control pills.

That being said, thyroid disorders are much more common in women than in men, and they are also more common the older you are. So if you are an older woman who suffers from acne, for instance, it's definitely something you should have checked.

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These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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My thyroid was inflamed when I was 14, causing it to produce too much hormone.  A year later, I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism.  I had acne through both.  My acne only cleared up when I got on birth control pills.

That being said, thyroid disorders are much more common in women than in men, and they are also more common the older you are.  So if you are an older woman who suffers from acne, for instance, it's definitely something you should have checked.


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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Hey guys, so okay times up no more escaping.Doing the liver cleanse tomorrow. Just got a question.

Try to take either a hot bath or jog on Saturday to stimulate your liver. At night when your going to sleep try to apply a hot water pack to your liver area.


"We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic cords of memory will swell when again touched as surely they will be by the better angels of our nature."


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Hey,

I just wanted to say hi and thank Ben16 for being gutsy enough to try it. I learned about the whole liver cleanse debate about 4-5 years ago. My friend bought a "natural acne cure" book on the Internet and gave it to me. The instructions in the book are very similar to the ones here.

I never went through with it because I felt too scared and suspicious. However, learning anout the liver flush -or cleanse as the book called it- set me off on a reading craze for a while. I surfed the Internet for information and bought Hulda Clark's "Cure for All Diseases." I also made my own Hulda Clark zapper during high school. All the while, I kept wondering if I should just go with the cleanse.

In the end, I got weary of it and decided not to think about it. I just couldn't get over the impression that there seemed to be so many dishonest people on both sides. What really put me off was finding people on the Internet selling the Hulda Clark zapper for over $100. I made one back in high school (I am now 21) after taking one very informal Electronics course. In fact, I think anyone can make one even without taking a course. All you need to do is order the parts from any decent mail-order electronics catalogue. Compared to it, an electronic cooking timer you can get for $10 is far more complicated.

I desperately wish somebody or some organization goes through with the cleanse in public, diligently documenting the results, so the debate can be cleared up once and for all. I am too chicken to do it, but I appreciate people out there who took the risk.

Sorry I babbled so much. I felt like saying some stuff I kept to myself for a while.

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Ben16, Jogging in the afternoon would be fine. Or you do this instead: take a hot bath or apply a hot water pack to your liver area.

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Clark's zapper is a scam to rip people off. It's well documented how many lawsuits were set against her for defrauding the public.

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Hey guys I am back!

Done a liver cleanse two days ago and although I have not seen major results from it, I do feel so much better! I didn´t get any stones out but maybe it wasnt to happen with the first cleanse already. But I feel so much better now, I used the bathroom a lot and well I feel lighter, more energetic and will defenitely try this again at some point! My face also cleared up a little bit!

So I do recommend this to everyone although I am convinced that a proper pre/ work is required for the liverflush to bring good results!


"We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic cords of memory will swell when again touched as surely they will be by the better angels of our nature."


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Clark's zapper is a scam to rip people off. It's well documented how many lawsuits were set against her for defrauding the public.

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Whats a zapper?


"We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic cords of memory will swell when again touched as surely they will be by the better angels of our nature."


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Haha, oh Denise. Do you believe the zapper works as Witch Doctor Clark claims?

The concept is laughable. Clark preaches that all cancers are caused by parasites. Ha.

Clark's "Zapper" is a low-voltage device that supposedly kills parasites, bacteria, and viruses with electrical energy, but does not harm human tissue. Its use is based on Clark's notion that all living things broadcast a characteristic range of radio frequencies and that the device can issue counter-frequencies that kill unwanted organisms [7]. Neither device has any genuine diagnostic or therapeutic value.

Clark's books, herbal products, and "Zapper" devices said to be built to her specifications are marketed through many Web sites, one of which is the Self Help Resource Center, administered by Clark's son Geoff. The Self-Health Research Center's "Testing Division" offers "synchrometer classes" twice a week, "scheduled as needed," for $175 [8]. Geoff also issues certificates for Zapper devices that are "within specifications found in Dr. Clark's books." The devices range in price from about $10 for a simple model to more than $200 for devices that also make colloidal silver. Her ideas are also advocated by the Dr. Clark Research Association, a group founded in 1998 by David P. Amrein, a Scientologist who describes himself as a freelance consultant in finance and taxes. Membership, which costs $40 per year, includes a subscription to the Dr. Clark Research Association Bulletin, which Amrein edits. The November 1999 issue stated that the Bulletin had a circulation of 1,500.

In November 1999, the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission announced that it had stopped an Australian company (Raylight Pty Ltd) from advertising that its "Parasite Zapper" passes an electric current through a person's blood and is effective against the AIDS virus, parasites, hepatitis, herpes, obesity, and other serious conditions. The company also agreed to provide refunds to consumers who felt they had been mislead [9].

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And Deni--

You probably refer to the lawsuit in 1999:

In September 1999, Clark was arrested in San Diego, California, based on a fugitive warrant from Indiana, where she faced charges of practicing medicine without a license. In November, a former patient filed suit accusing her of negligence and fraud.

The criminal case originated when Clark lived and practiced in Indiana [10,11]. In 1993, after a former patient complained to the Indiana attorney general, a health department official visited accompanied by a deputy attorney general visited her office and was diagnosed with AIDS and sent to a laboratory for a blood test [12]. Clark -- apparently tipped off by the lab -- found out she was being investigated and left Indiana a few days later. In 1999, Clark was apprehended in California and returned to Indiana to stand trial. However, in April 2000, an Indiana judge dismissed the charges on grounds that too much time had elapsed between the filing of the charges and Clark's arrest. The judge's verdict did not address the merits of the charges but only the issue of whether the delay had compromised Clark's ability to mount a defense and her right to a speedy trial [13].

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