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The link between acne and hairloss/baldness

saw palmetto

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#1 theussr

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 07:13 PM

Couldn't find anything on the search, which is strange because surely it's a noteworthy topic (not sure which forum to post this in by the way).

Anyway I've had acne for the past 7 years and I'm now 22. Over the past 8-12 months I've gone from having a full, thick head of hair to having noticeably thinning and weaker hair. I have a family history of baldness so I don't know if my stress has sped up the process or what.

Just wondering what the commonalities between acne and baldness are, seems from some brief reading that excess sebum is responsible as well as increased DHT/androgens. I've seen saw palmetto and Retin A are used for both purposes, so would treatment from this angle effectively treat both? Any other thoughts welcome.

#2 LoveGreenSmoothies

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 07:52 PM

are you male or female?

It's from increased androgens/oily scalp/dht. It can also happen for other reasons. I have normal testosterone/androgens and other hormones, much to the surprise of my endo, but I have adult acne and have had hair loss at times.

retin-a does nothing for hair loss (or acne imo).

samw palmetto can help so can vitex. So can spiro, but it depends on your hormone levels.
Please only PM me if it's something that cannot be talked about on the thread or is highly personal. This way, everyone benefits.

#3 greentiger87

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 08:18 PM

Edit: Wow, major facepalm. I totally didn't even consider that you might be a woman. Go me!

Try a search for anti-androgens or DHT and you'll find many useful threads. One prolific poster here, Bryan, also posts quite often at male pattern baldness forum on hairsite.com.

I personally don't think hair loss and acne compare very well, other than being generally influenced by androgens. Anti-androgens and androgen receptor antagonists are therefore the one topic that they often have in common.

The other important commonality is that in both diseases, hypersensitivity to androgens seems to be much more important than overall androgen levels - most males with acne do not have abnormal hormone levels, and neither do most males with MPB. The similarities really stop there, however - the specifics of the receptors involved seem to be very different in the two diseases, as far as we currently know. MPB also has clear auto-immune dysfunction. With acne, the immune system is thought to be dysfunctionally reactive, but is still targeting exogenous compouinds/organisms.

Ketoconazole has been discussed for its anti-androgen properties, as a topical agent in males and even a systemic agent in females. Nizoral (1% Ketoconazole) Shampoo is the only form sold over the counter in the United States that is meant for human use.

The use of spearmint or peppermint tea systemically is also a popular strategy here. I've personally considered topical use, as I don't think altering blood stream hormone levels in males is safe. However, peppermint oil and especially the menthol it contains is too intrinsically irritating for practical use.

The research on saw palmetto is rather disappointing, but there are definitely anecdotal reports of success on the board. Again, I don't think this strategy is safe in males.

Edited by greentiger87, 30 December 2010 - 08:22 PM.

Morning:
-Cetaphil Daily Facial Cleanser, or Dan's Cleanser
-Paula's Choice 2% Beta Hydroxy Acid Liquid
-CeraVe Moisturizer + Neutrogena Sensitive Skin Sunblock Lotion (zinc oxide and titanium oxide only)

[Night (before bed):
-Cetaphil Daily Facial Cleanser, or Dan's Cleanser
-Dan's BP
-CeraVe Moisturizer

Occasionally:
Dan's AHA
Homemade Niacinamide Toner
Homemade TTO Spot Treatment (Aloe Vera Gel and 20% Tea Tree Oil)

#4 Randomstuffs261

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 08:23 PM

I think hair loss and acne are linked by something. It might be due to the skin itself or a problem inside that causes both e.g irratable bowels...
It could also be due to the sort of lifestyle people lead , or just simple genetics. But the two come hand in hand. Members of my family with baldness had acne. Members without baldness didnt have acne.
'Like the philosopher 'Jagger' once said':

"You can't always get what you want"

- House Season 1 - Episode 1

Please vote on my Poll - Best acne treatment?

#5 alternativista

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 08:57 PM

The DHT is the link. Therefore diet, nutrient deficiencies and lifestyle habits that increase DHT can contribute to both. Also, some people have more of the enzymes that convert Testosterone to DHT than others. That's genetically influenced.

But having one doesn't mean you get the other. Everyone's body does something slightly different with the resources, such as the hormones, it has.

Edited by alternativista, 30 December 2010 - 09:16 PM.

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


#6 bryan

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 09:05 PM

QUOTE (Anti - Em @ Dec 30 2010, 08:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
retin-a does nothing for hair loss (or acne imo).


Considering how long Retin-A has been used to help treat hair loss, I'm surprised to hear you say such a thing! smile.gif See the famous Bazzano study below...

To the original poster: there's been some speculation about the role of sebum in hair loss, but there probably isn't any real connection.

J Am Acad Dermatol. 1986 Oct;15(4 Pt 2):880-3, 890-3.
"Topical tretinoin for hair growth promotion."
Bazzano GS, Terezakis N, Galen W.

Abstract
Topical all-trans-retinoic acid (tretinoin) alone and in combination with 0.5% minoxidil has been tested for the promotion of hair growth in 56 subjects with androgenetic alopecia. After 1 year, the combination of topical tretinoin with 0.5% minoxidil resulted in terminal hair regrowth in 66% of the subjects studied. Tretinoin was shown to stimulate some hair regrowth in approximately 58% of the subjects studied. One female subject with pronounced alopecia for more than 20 years had regrowth of hair using only tretinoin for a period of 18 months. Tretinoin has been shown to promote and regulate cell proliferation and differentiation in the epithelium and may promote vascular proliferation. These factors are important for hair growth promotion. These preliminary results indicate that more work should be done on the role of retinoids in hair growth. The synergistic effect of retinoids in combination with a low concentration of minoxidil should also be further investigated.

#7 LoveGreenSmoothies

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Posted 30 December 2010 - 11:45 PM

Never heard that until now. I wonder if it's what made me have so much peach fuzz on my face, because I used it for awhile.

Oil has been said to cause hair loss by raising DHT levels or something like that. I forget but it was scientific when I read it. In fact, a lot of people say to keep your hair totally free of oils if you're trying to regrow the hair, especially if you're taking meds to do so.

I meant to mention nizoral.


QUOTE (bryan @ Dec 30 2010, 11:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Anti - Em @ Dec 30 2010, 08:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
retin-a does nothing for hair loss (or acne imo).


Considering how long Retin-A has been used to help treat hair loss, I'm surprised to hear you say such a thing! smile.gif See the famous Bazzano study below...

To the original poster: there's been some speculation about the role of sebum in hair loss, but there probably isn't any real connection.

J Am Acad Dermatol. 1986 Oct;15(4 Pt 2):880-3, 890-3.
"Topical tretinoin for hair growth promotion."
Bazzano GS, Terezakis N, Galen W.

Abstract
Topical all-trans-retinoic acid (tretinoin) alone and in combination with 0.5% minoxidil has been tested for the promotion of hair growth in 56 subjects with androgenetic alopecia. After 1 year, the combination of topical tretinoin with 0.5% minoxidil resulted in terminal hair regrowth in 66% of the subjects studied. Tretinoin was shown to stimulate some hair regrowth in approximately 58% of the subjects studied. One female subject with pronounced alopecia for more than 20 years had regrowth of hair using only tretinoin for a period of 18 months. Tretinoin has been shown to promote and regulate cell proliferation and differentiation in the epithelium and may promote vascular proliferation. These factors are important for hair growth promotion. These preliminary results indicate that more work should be done on the role of retinoids in hair growth. The synergistic effect of retinoids in combination with a low concentration of minoxidil should also be further investigated.


Please only PM me if it's something that cannot be talked about on the thread or is highly personal. This way, everyone benefits.

#8 AutonomousOne1980

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 12:17 AM

just off the top of my head, a vitamin E tocotrienal supplement was used in a double blind placebo controlled study for hairloss, with many increasing their existing hair count by 42% over 8 months, they now have a patent on this product if i remember correctly.

their is some link between how tocotrienals work with androgens but i dont realy remember at the moment.

http://www.carotech.net/
you can read about the study on that site, there is a link about tocomin super bio supplement half way down.

no idea if this could explain a link though.

tocotrienals are vitamin e compounds and therefore fat soluble and absorbed at the ileum, if there are any digestive issues, you may have a hard time absorbing these tocotrienals, or if you have a low fat diet, or do not eat wheat, brown rice, barley or corn, they have the most vitamin e tocotrienals.
#1.critical nutritional issues- b12(three forms exist), Calcium(yogurt, cheese or calcium phosphate supps) and vitamin d(sun or supps not to exceed 1000 iu). heme iron-most absorbable from meat only, clams are high. these are the most difficult vitamins to get and absorb. All others or about the same in difficulty in absorption. MAgnesium in our food supply is generally low as well, try natural calm supps.
#2 Fats- monounsaturated should dominate(olives), followed by polyunsaturated plant sources(nuts) but not if you have acne. the health benefits of fish oil and fish are controversial and i dont consume them due to mercury contamination and immune supression avoid processed fats if possible.
#3 Protein/amino acids- dairy and eggs best sources for tryptophan and methionine which convert to powerful antioxidants melatonin and glutathione.
#4 Carotenoids- alpha- beta carotene, beta cryptoxanthin, lutein zeaxanthin, astaxanthin. these are vital to human nutrition, carrots, butternut squash, pumpkin, chili pepper and cayenne pepper are the best sources.
#5 Regularity-BM at least once a day, Moist, large stools, 1 piece ideal, no maldigestion, no floating stools indicative of maldigested fat. HOW- insoluble fiber- wheat and cooked vegetables. soluble fiber-oats/ good bacteria ferment soluble fiber making short chain fatty acids that inhibit pathogens.
#6 Circadian cycles-Light, get up with the sun, and expose your entire body to it. darkness-melatonin is released upon the sensing of absolute darkness. sleep in a pitch black room, try to ensure 10 hours total darkness, wear sunglasses before bed. do not eat too late at night.
#7 Desirable physiological states(positive moods/emotions) do precisely what you like and what feels good to you, but not regardless of consequences, just from a perspective that, you own your life, and can determine precisely what you do with it and need not answer or ask of permission from anyone,achieving maximum autonomy and self government.

#9 bryan

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Posted 31 December 2010 - 02:27 AM

QUOTE (Anti - Em @ Dec 30 2010, 11:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Oil has been said to cause hair loss by raising DHT levels or something like that. I forget but it was scientific when I read it. In fact, a lot of people say to keep your hair totally free of oils if you're trying to regrow the hair, especially if you're taking meds to do so.


It's apparently true that there is _some_ DHT in sebum, because I've read a study or two which attempted to measure it as an indication of how well their 5a-reductase inhibitor drug was doing to suppress it. Still, I really don't consider that to be much of a reason to avoid having oil on the scalp, or to go to any extreme lengths to keep it washed off. DHT simply isn't much of an endocrine hormone! While there are apparently a few molecules of DHT in sebum, I don't think it's going to have any practical effect on the growth of scalp hair.

I've read and have in my possession copies of hundreds of studies from medical journals on the treatment of MPB (male pattern baldness), and I've never seen an authority on this subject recommend that anybody keep his or her hair washed thoroughly for this specific reason.

#10 Packerfan785

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 12:34 PM

QUOTE (Anti - Em @ Dec 30 2010, 07:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
retin-a does nothing for hair loss (or acne imo).


No. Just no.

I'm all for the holistic approach, but Retin A has helped me go from having severe acne to being almost completely clear. It has made a much bigger difference than any diet or supplement (or combination) has ever made.
Please, use Retin-A. It has nearly eliminated my acne and continues to lighten my red marks.

#11 LoveGreenSmoothies

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 01:09 AM

QUOTE (Packerfan785 @ Jan 2 2011, 02:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Anti - Em @ Dec 30 2010, 07:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
retin-a does nothing for hair loss (or acne imo).


No. Just no.

I'm all for the holistic approach, but Retin A has helped me go from having severe acne to being almost completely clear. It has made a much bigger difference than any diet or supplement (or combination) has ever made.

I am far from an only nutritional approach person. I've been on tane and spiro. So no. I'm not that person. Retin a did zilch for my acne and only gave me more of it. A lot of people have the same experience with it. I've heard of a few people it does help though.

Keeping the hair free of oils really helped for some actual people I know. When I was on tane my hair actually STOPPED falling out and regrew. I don't know why, but attribute it to it being completely non oily.
Please only PM me if it's something that cannot be talked about on the thread or is highly personal. This way, everyone benefits.

#12 theussr

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Posted 19 February 2011 - 02:57 AM

According to a study, "Hair follicle is a target of stress hormone and autoimmune reactions.":
http://www.biomedsea...e/20943348.html

It mentions the effect stress hormones have on hair follicles and the skin. Gotta take up yoga or something methinks.

#13 AutonomousOne1980

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 12:21 AM

eat less dairy and lower fat diet, and get more fiber, especially wheat it will bind to androgens as they are excreted in your bile acids, and may help with acne and hairloss.
#1.critical nutritional issues- b12(three forms exist), Calcium(yogurt, cheese or calcium phosphate supps) and vitamin d(sun or supps not to exceed 1000 iu). heme iron-most absorbable from meat only, clams are high. these are the most difficult vitamins to get and absorb. All others or about the same in difficulty in absorption. MAgnesium in our food supply is generally low as well, try natural calm supps.
#2 Fats- monounsaturated should dominate(olives), followed by polyunsaturated plant sources(nuts) but not if you have acne. the health benefits of fish oil and fish are controversial and i dont consume them due to mercury contamination and immune supression avoid processed fats if possible.
#3 Protein/amino acids- dairy and eggs best sources for tryptophan and methionine which convert to powerful antioxidants melatonin and glutathione.
#4 Carotenoids- alpha- beta carotene, beta cryptoxanthin, lutein zeaxanthin, astaxanthin. these are vital to human nutrition, carrots, butternut squash, pumpkin, chili pepper and cayenne pepper are the best sources.
#5 Regularity-BM at least once a day, Moist, large stools, 1 piece ideal, no maldigestion, no floating stools indicative of maldigested fat. HOW- insoluble fiber- wheat and cooked vegetables. soluble fiber-oats/ good bacteria ferment soluble fiber making short chain fatty acids that inhibit pathogens.
#6 Circadian cycles-Light, get up with the sun, and expose your entire body to it. darkness-melatonin is released upon the sensing of absolute darkness. sleep in a pitch black room, try to ensure 10 hours total darkness, wear sunglasses before bed. do not eat too late at night.
#7 Desirable physiological states(positive moods/emotions) do precisely what you like and what feels good to you, but not regardless of consequences, just from a perspective that, you own your life, and can determine precisely what you do with it and need not answer or ask of permission from anyone,achieving maximum autonomy and self government.

#14 uncle buck

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 03:43 AM

lol
*Moderator edit, URL removed - read the board rules. *

#15 mes6890

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 07:10 PM

Ahhhhh this is EXACTLY MY PROBLEM!!! For the past year, I've had the worst cystic acne etc. of my LIFE. At the exact same time as the acne turned horrendous, I started losing hair which hasn't stopped (and I know some of it's miniaturizing or on the way to that). I've always had acne, but never this bad or persistent, and I have always had a ton of really full and frankly gorgeous hair. It's been an unspeakably frustrating year and one spent combing message board after message board and study after study. Stupid DHT, I know that is most of my problem, and that it's complicated why it is that way, but damn. I used saw palmetto and my face started clearing up, but I got major brain fog and my heart was beating too fast (plus I also take Adderall, and that cannot be eliminated). It's so annoying. I've put off Accutane twice. Any help appreciated...

Life with Accutane side effects: http://bloggingmybet....wordpress.com/


#16 Acne attacked

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 10:04 PM

Sounds like me i have acne and hair loss/thinning also

#17 Acne attacked

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 01:07 AM

For the hair loss it could be due to chemicals in the shampoo i recently switched to an all natural brand an it looks thicker