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About the reducers of TGF-B1

keloid hypertrophic

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#1 Maldition

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 11:12 PM

Here some info about the metod of this reducer of TGF-B1, Enalapril.


In graphic, there is the metod about this medication:

part 1: http://pharmrev.aspe...11/F1.large.jpg

part 2: http://pharmrev.aspe...11/F2.large.jpg

part 3: http://pharmrev.aspe...11/F3.large.jpg


Two cases:

Case 1
S.I. (the first author of this study), at the age of 54, underwent left colectomy for adenocarcinoma of the colon in 2002 and developed a postsurgical abdominal red keloid scar that was erythematous and painful.After 4 months, a consulted surgeon confirmed the diagnosis of keloid because the lesion expanded in a claw-like fashion beyond the borders of the scar. He decided against surgical revision because of the risk for keloid diathesis and the high risk of recurrence associated with surgery. The patient had a preexisting hypertrophic surgical scar that was the result of 2 long-ago cesarean sections (performed 30 and 25 years before), and this scar was sometimes itchy and eczematous. In the meantime, the patient was treated for mild arterial hypertension with low-dose enalapril (10 mg, once a day), coupled with a very low dose of hydrochlorothiazide (3 mg, once a day), administered in the morning. After 15 days of this treatment, the keloid scar dramatically improved, with a nearly complete recovery. Spontaneous resolution was ruled out as the reason for this rapid improvement, and this drew attention to the effect of the drug. Moreover, the old hypertrophic scar (due to cesarean sections) completely disappeared after 3–4 months of enalapril treatment.

Case 2
R.Z., a 70-year-old female with well-controlled diabetes who had undergone surgical removal of a tumor on her colon 2 years previously, developed a postsurgical abdominal keloid scar which, upon observation, was very prominent. The scar was red, had irregular borders, and showed increased vascularization. It is noteworthy that the patient also had a red, rounded keloid scar at the site where a drainage tube had been inserted at the time of surgery. These keloids, therefore, should be considered as long-standing lesions. The patient was intentionally treated with the same drugs as the patient in Case 1 (10 mg enalapril and 3 mg hydrochlorothiazide, once a day), administered in the morning. The keloid scars slowly improved, showing a very good response after 6 months.The 2 patients still continue enalapril treatment, which is effective in controlling their arterial blood pressure.



General Comments
On the basis of our observations, we reviewed the available literature concerning scar or fibrous tissue production as influenced by angiotensin-converting enzyme, angiotensin II (an important modulator of collagen synthesis), and ACE inhibition.ACE inhibitors are hypotensive drugs that inhibit the converting enzyme peptidyl dipeptidase, which hydrolyzes angiotensin I to angiotensin II and inhibits the degradation of a potent vasodilator, bradykinin; this mechanism, at least in part, is prostaglandin mediated.[31] ACE is present in tissues composed largely of fibrillar collagen such as heart valves, the adventitia of great vessels, and intramyocardial coronary arteries, as well as in the scar that follows myocardial infarction.[32] In experimental models that simulate primary and secondary hyperaldosteronism by administration of aldosterone or angiotensin II (which were associated with the appearance of myocardial fibrosis), Sun and colleagues[32] tested the hypothesis that ACE is related to fibrous tissue formation, whose appearance is independent of circulating renin and angiotensin peptides. It has also been reported that angiotensin II, generated by activation of the local renin-angiotensin system, is believed to play an important role in tissue repair and remodeling, being a potent inducer of procollagen production (for example, in human lung fibroblasts) via the activation of type 1 receptor and, at least in part, via the autocrine action of TGF-beta.[33]Several ACE inhibitors are currently in clinical use. Captopril is an ACE inhibitor with inhibitory action on the renin-angiotensin system and a stimulating effect on the kallikrein-kinin system.[31] It is a sulfhydryl-containing agent and is metabolized chiefly to disulfide conjugates with other sulfhydryl-containing molecules, and is distributed to most body tissues (with the exception of the central nervous system) and eliminated primarily by the kidneys, like the other ACE inhibitors. Enalapril is a prodrug that is hydrolyzed in the body and converted by de-esterification to ACE inhibitor enalaprilat; it is a non-sulfhydryl-containing agent. Lisinopril is a lysine derivative of enalaprilat, the active metabolite of enalapril. Fosinopril and ramipril, next introduced, are slowly absorbed. Losartan, on the other hand, is a nonpeptide angiotensin II antagonist.[31]Several reports have described the effects of the ACE inhibitors captopril and enalapril on myocardial infarction (produced in diverse animals by left anterior descending coronary artery ligation), such as reduction of ventricular collagen content and attenuation of left ventricular remodeling, which improves ventricular function.[34–38] In some of these observations, scars showed less thinning and expansion with ACE inhibitors than with placebo. In a recent study involving a myocardial infarction model, long-term ACE inhibition with captopril (6 months) reduced left ventricular mass and decreased fibrosis in the viable myocardium but had no effect on cardiac expression of TGF-beta1 or CTGF mRNA and protein.[39] It is also known that some ACE inhibitors exert antifibrotic effect in pulmonary fibrosis and in some in vitro and in vivo experimental or human models of fibrotic lesions.[33,37,40–44] It has been reported that enalapril limits left ventricular hypertrophy and decreases infarct wall thickness in dogs during in vivo healing after anterior myocardial infarction.[36,38]Infarct scars have long been considered to be inert and acellular structures, composed simply of fibrillar collagen, whose sole function is to restore structural integrity to infarcted myocardium and provide tensile strength that prevents tissue rupture. In contrast to this view, infarct scar is now recognized as a living tissue[45]; it is a dynamic structure composed of a persistent population of phenotypically transformed fibroblast-like cells (termed myofibroblasts) with contractile behavior in response to various peptides and amines. Living and dynamic infarct scar is nourished by a neovasculature.[45–48] These myofibroblasts at the myocardial infarct site are metabolically active (expressing components requisite to angiotensin peptide generation) and continue to elaborate fibrillar type I collagen.[45] Sun and colleagues[45] reported that pharmacologic intervention with ACE inhibitors is effective in attenuating scar tissue metabolic activity and minimizing adverse accumulation of fibrous tissue in noninfarcted myocardium. Some researchers have demonstrated that cultured myofibroblasts (obtained from 4-week-old scar tissue of the left ventricle of adult rats with transmural myocardial infarction) are able to generate de novo angiotensin I and II.[46] Angiotensin II may regulate myofibroblast collagen turnover and fibrous tissue contraction in an autocrine and/or paracrine manner.[46,47] Thus, myofibroblasts are the cells responsible for fibrous tissue formation in various injured organs, such as the heart.



Discussion
We did not find any observations in the literature about the effects of ACE inhibitors on cutaneous hypertrophic scars or keloids. For this reason, we thought it would be of interest to publish the findings from our 2 cases.It is noteworthy that the improvement of the postsurgical scar after low-dose enalapril treatment was better in the patient with a keloid lesion of short duration (4 months) than in the case with a long-standing lesion (2 years' duration), which was probably a more stable lesion. The female patient presented in Case 1, moreover, was younger and not affected by any significant diseases (aside from the surgically treated colonic neoplasm), whereas the female patient presented in Case 2 was older and affected by diabetes mellitus, a disease known to interfere with tissue healing.The only study that seems to support our observations is that of Sun and colleagues.[47] These authors, using a granuloma pouch model (whereby a subcutaneous air sac was created, followed by injection of croton oil) and collecting pouch tissue on Days 4, 7, 14 and 21, tested whether fibroblasts (wound-healing fibroblast-like cells) and the locally generated angiotensin II are involved in repairing tissue. In the pouch tissue, They found that ACE and angiotensin II receptor binding was evident at Day 4 (and remained unvaried on Days 7, 14, and 21), the predominant angiotensin II receptor subtype expressed was AT1, myofibroblasts expressed ACE and AT1 receptors, and lisinopril and losartan significantly attenuated pouch weight and accumulation of collagen. Thus, in this model of cutaneous repair, the appearance of myofibroblasts was associated with angiotensin II generation, which regulates fibrogenesis by AT1 receptor binding, whereas signals involved in the appearance of myofibroblasts remain uncertain.It is noteworthy that, in 1990, Ward and colleagues[40] demonstrated that collagen (hydroxyproline) and mast cell accumulation are decreased in irradiated rat lung, and that, in irradiated rats, the ACE inhibitor captopril, in addition to ameliorating acute lung damage, also induced reduction of chronic skin manifestations – both benign (epilation and moist desquamation) and malignant (fibrosarcomas and squamous cell carcinomas) – thus demonstrating a useful effect in cutaneous reactions.



Are All ACE Inhibitors Equally Effective in the Treatment of Keloid Scars?
Captopril, which contains a sulphydryl (SH) radical in its moiety, was reported to be the most efficient drug in protecting the lung parenchyma from the inflammatory response and subsequent fibrosis.[44] The observation that ACE inhibitors containing the sulphydryl radical are more effective than those without it led to the question of whether this protective effect is related to inhibition of angiotensin II synthesis or rather to some of the collateral properties of these drugs, such as antioxidation or protease inhibition.[44] In the study by Ward and colleagues,[40] captopril inhibited radiation-induced pulmonary fibrosis in rats, showing cytostatic effect not attributable to ACE inhibition. In another research, the ability of captopril to inhibit 3H-thymidine incorporation was not reversed by exogenous angiotensin II and was not mimicked by the non-thiol ACE inhibitor, lisinopril.[41] In another study, penicillamine, a thiol compound with no ACE-inhibitory activity, also reduced fibroblast 3H-thymidine incorporation, indicating that the antimitotic action of captopril may represent a nonspecific sulfhydryl effect.[41] Nevertheless, enalapril, which is a non-sulfhydryl-containing agent, exerts effects similar to those of captopril.[36,37] Moreover, Marshall and colleagues[33] recently demonstrated that, after bleomycin-induced lung injury, administration of ramipril (another ACE-inhibitor without sulphydryl radical) reduced the increase in TGF-beta1 expression and lung collagen deposition. On the other hand, the angiotensin II receptor blockers are reported to be equally effective in antifibrotic capacity to any ACE inhibitor with or without SH-radical, reaffirming the role of angiotensin II in the modulation of collagen synthesis.[44] Thus, the mechanism of ACE inhibitors remains to be clarified.

Edited by Maldition, 29 December 2010 - 02:05 PM.


#2 Maldition

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Posted 15 December 2010 - 11:13 PM

Decorin could have the same effect:

Recombinant Human Decorin Inhibits TGF-b1 Induced Contraction of Collagen Lattice by Keloid Fibroblasts

Abstract: While wound contraction plays an important role in healing, it may lead to excessive scar formation and pathological wound contracture in extreme conditions. To date, the key regulator of wound contraction and keloid formation is transforming growth factor-beta (TGF-b1). Decorin has been reported to bind TGF-b1 and neutralize some of its activities. The present study investigated whether decorin affected TGF-b1-induced fibroblast contractile activity by using fibroblast-populated collagen lattice (FPCL), which has been generally used as an in-vitro model thought to mimic wound contraction in vivo, modified by the incorporation of recombinant human decorin into collagen gel. As expected, TGF-b1 significantly enhanced the contraction of collagen gel at hour 12, 24, 48, 72, and 96 (P < 0.05). Recombinant human decorin inhibited both the basal and TGF-b1-enhanced contraction of collagen gel by keloid fibroblasts (P < 0.05). These inhibitory effects of recombinant human decorin were associated with suppression of TGF-b1-induced filamentous actin (F-actin) expression in keloid fibroblasts. Furthermore, recombinant human decorin inhibited TGF-b1 induced a-smooth muscle actin (a-SMA), PAI-1 (plasminogen activator inhibitor-1) protein, and mRNA expressions in keloid fibroblasts (P < 0.05). These data indicate that recombinant human decorin can suppress TGF-b1-induced contraction of collagen gel by keloid fibroblasts. Moreover, decorin can inhibit basal contraction of collagen gel by keloid fibroblasts. These results suggest that decorin may have therapeutic potential for excessive skin contraction as observed in a keloid.





Decorin and TGF-beta1 polymorphisms and development of COPD in a general population.
van Diemen CC, Postma DS, Vonk JM, Bruinenberg M, Nolte IM, Boezen HM.

Decorin, an extracellular matrix (ECM) proteoglycan, and TGF-beta1 are both involved in lung ECM turnover. Decorin and TGF-beta1 expression are decreased respectively increased in COPD lung tissue. Interestingly, they act as each other's feedback regulator. We investigated whether single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs) in decorin and TGF-beta1 underlie accelerated decline in FEV1 and development of COPD in the general population.

METHODS: We genotyped 1390 subjects from the Vlagtwedde/Vlaardingen cohort. Lung function was measured every 3 years for a period of 25 years. We tested whether five SNPs in decorin (3'UTR and four intron SNPs) and three SNPs in TGF-beta1 (3'UTR rs6957, C-509T rs1800469 and Leu10Pro rs1982073), and their haplotypes, were associated with COPD (last survey GOLD stage = II). Linear mixed effects models were used to analyze genotype associations with FEV1 decline.

RESULTS: We found a significantly higher prevalence of carriers of the minor allele of the TGF-beta1 rs6957 SNP (p = 0.001) in subjects with COPD. Additionally, we found a significantly lower prevalence of the haplotype with the major allele of rs6957 and minor alleles for rs1800469 and rs1982073 SNPs in TGF-beta1 in subjects with COPD (p = 0.030), indicating that this association is due to the rs6957 SNP. TGF-beta1 SNPs were not associated with FEV1 decline. SNPs in decorin, and haplotypes constructed of both TGF-beta1 and decorin SNPs were not associated with development of COPD or with FEV1 decline.

CONCLUSION: Our study shows for the first time that SNPs in decorin on its own or in interaction with SNPs in TGF-beta1 do not underlie the disturbed balance in expression between these genes in COPD. TGF-beta1 SNPs are associated with COPD, yet not with accelerated FEV1 decline in the general population.



#3 Maldition

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 01:12 PM

We need more people on Enalapril, to ask if work or not.

#4 pepo

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 02:36 PM

I ordered some enalapril online as my doctor wouldn't give me it. I did my research to see if the site was legitimate. It arrived on the 23rd of December and I started taking it the same day. It's going to take time before we know if it works but I will keep everyone updated.

#5 Maldition

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 08:06 AM

QUOTE (pepo @ Dec 25 2010, 05:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I ordered some enalapril online as my doctor wouldn't give me it. I did my research to see if the site was legitimate. It arrived on the 23rd of December and I started taking it the same day. It's going to take time before we know if it works but I will keep everyone updated.

I wish you that it works out. Good luck, and we hope some good news.

Edited by Maldition, 27 December 2010 - 08:09 AM.


#6 LoveGreenSmoothies

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 04:44 PM

Surgical scars are different than atrophic scars. Most of us have atrophic....

#7 pepo

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 10:12 PM

QUOTE (Anti - Em @ Dec 27 2010, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Surgical scars are different than atrophic scars. Most of us have atrophic....


You need to educate yourself on TGF-B1 and the role it play in ALL scarring....

#8 Scars4Life

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 06:38 AM

Surgical scars in many cases can seem far harder to restore to normal skin, than it would for an atrophic scar.

#9 Maldition

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 06:58 AM

QUOTE (pepo @ Dec 28 2010, 01:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Anti - Em @ Dec 27 2010, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Surgical scars are different than atrophic scars. Most of us have atrophic....


You need to educate yourself on TGF-B1 and the role it play in ALL scarring....

agree

#10 LoveGreenSmoothies

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 05:21 PM

QUOTE (pepo @ Dec 28 2010, 12:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Anti - Em @ Dec 27 2010, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Surgical scars are different than atrophic scars. Most of us have atrophic....


You need to educate yourself on TGF-B1 and the role it play in ALL scarring....



Well, these studies say nothing about acne scars. Why is that? Because it doesn't work for them. Acne scars are much deeper than other types of scarring. The cysts destroy deeper into the dermis than surgical scars because of the sinus tracts of cysts.

Also, acne scars that are atrophic are the result of LACK of collagen while keloids are TOO much collagen, so I hope this doesn't make atrophic scarring worse. You can't compare apples and oranges and expect to get a consistent result.


A keloid (also known as a "keloidal scar"[1]:1499) is a type of scar, which depending on its maturity, is composed of mainly either type III (early) or type I (late) collagen. It is a result of an overgrowth of granulation tissue (collagen type 3) at the site of a healed skin injury which is then slowly replaced by collagen type 1.

QUOTE (Scars4Life @ Dec 28 2010, 08:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Surgical scars in many cases can seem far harder to restore to normal skin, than it would for an atrophic scar.

That's not true. I've read articles/studies in the past where the surgical scars were eradicated by these types of pills but acne scars weren't.

But whatever. You guys can try this and it won't work. It's obvious you want to believe it does even without any evidence it does, so I'll just stay out of the thread from now on. Meanwhile, the OP isn't even trying it but is trying to get everyone else to be his/her guinea pig. rolleyes.gif

Edited by Anti - Em, 28 December 2010 - 06:02 PM.


#11 pepo

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Posted 28 December 2010 - 07:53 PM

QUOTE (Anti - Em @ Dec 28 2010, 11:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (pepo @ Dec 28 2010, 12:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Anti - Em @ Dec 27 2010, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Surgical scars are different than atrophic scars. Most of us have atrophic....


You need to educate yourself on TGF-B1 and the role it play in ALL scarring....



Well, these studies say nothing about acne scars. Why is that? Because it doesn't work for them. Acne scars are much deeper than other types of scarring. The cysts destroy deeper into the dermis than surgical scars because of the sinus tracts of cysts.

Also, acne scars that are atrophic are the result of LACK of collagen while keloids are TOO much collagen, so I hope this doesn't make atrophic scarring worse. You can't compare apples and oranges and expect to get a consistent result.


A keloid (also known as a "keloidal scar"[1]:1499) is a type of scar, which depending on its maturity, is composed of mainly either type III (early) or type I (late) collagen. It is a result of an overgrowth of granulation tissue (collagen type 3) at the site of a healed skin injury which is then slowly replaced by collagen type 1.

QUOTE (Scars4Life @ Dec 28 2010, 08:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Surgical scars in many cases can seem far harder to restore to normal skin, than it would for an atrophic scar.

That's not true. I've read articles/studies in the past where the surgical scars were eradicated by these types of pills but acne scars weren't.

But whatever. You guys can try this and it won't work. It's obvious you want to believe it does even without any evidence it does, so I'll just stay out of the thread from now on. Meanwhile, the OP isn't even trying it but is trying to get everyone else to be his/her guinea pig. rolleyes.gif


It doesn't say anything about acne scars because they didn't test acne scars. It was a limited test on patients who happened to have keloids and hypertrophic scars. The meat of the info in the medical papers are in the science itself.

"That's not true. I've read articles/studies in the past where the surgical scars were eradicated by these types of pills but acne scars weren't."

There hasn't been any such studies which claim this at all. You need to provide a source.

And as for guinea pig comment, we have been discussing ACE inhibitors for months over on the "scarless healing" thread. We have been discussing TGF since the very first page of the thread which is now nearly 130 pages long. In this time there has been dozens and dozens of medical papers read.

Edited by pepo, 28 December 2010 - 08:16 PM.


#12 Maldition

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 08:41 AM

QUOTE (Anti - Em @ Dec 28 2010, 08:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But whatever. You guys can try this and it won't work. It's obvious you want to believe it does even without any evidence it does, so I'll just stay out of the thread from now on. Meanwhile, the OP isn't even trying it but is trying to get everyone else to be his/her guinea pig. rolleyes.gif

Why your trolling?

No one says it should be used the experimental treatments, in my case at least, i like investigate and translate everything that research in a place like this, so that people can access the information, and is able to know more about treatments and discoverys, and can be discussed possible solutions.

Edited by Maldition, 29 December 2010 - 08:42 AM.


#13 LoveGreenSmoothies

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 01:23 PM

QUOTE (pepo @ Dec 28 2010, 09:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Anti - Em @ Dec 28 2010, 11:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (pepo @ Dec 28 2010, 12:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Anti - Em @ Dec 27 2010, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Surgical scars are different than atrophic scars. Most of us have atrophic....


You need to educate yourself on TGF-B1 and the role it play in ALL scarring....



Well, these studies say nothing about acne scars. Why is that? Because it doesn't work for them. Acne scars are much deeper than other types of scarring. The cysts destroy deeper into the dermis than surgical scars because of the sinus tracts of cysts.

Also, acne scars that are atrophic are the result of LACK of collagen while keloids are TOO much collagen, so I hope this doesn't make atrophic scarring worse. You can't compare apples and oranges and expect to get a consistent result.


A keloid (also known as a "keloidal scar"[1]:1499) is a type of scar, which depending on its maturity, is composed of mainly either type III (early) or type I (late) collagen. It is a result of an overgrowth of granulation tissue (collagen type 3) at the site of a healed skin injury which is then slowly replaced by collagen type 1.

QUOTE (Scars4Life @ Dec 28 2010, 08:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Surgical scars in many cases can seem far harder to restore to normal skin, than it would for an atrophic scar.

That's not true. I've read articles/studies in the past where the surgical scars were eradicated by these types of pills but acne scars weren't.

But whatever. You guys can try this and it won't work. It's obvious you want to believe it does even without any evidence it does, so I'll just stay out of the thread from now on. Meanwhile, the OP isn't even trying it but is trying to get everyone else to be his/her guinea pig. rolleyes.gif


It doesn't say anything about acne scars because they didn't test acne scars. It was a limited test on patients who happened to have keloids and hypertrophic scars. The meat of the info in the medical papers are in the science itself.

"That's not true. I've read articles/studies in the past where the surgical scars were eradicated by these types of pills but acne scars weren't."

There hasn't been any such studies which claim this at all. You need to provide a source.

And as for guinea pig comment, we have been discussing ACE inhibitors for months over on the "scarless healing" thread. We have been discussing TGF since the very first page of the thread which is now nearly 130 pages long. In this time there has been dozens and dozens of medical papers read.



I don't have the source. It was the anti-epileptic drug that's also supposed to get rid of acne scars. It got rid of surgical/raised scarring.

I haven't read that thread and I don't plan to since it's mostly speculation about things that are unproven and/or unavailable.


I don't think this will work on atrophic scarring and I am allowed to say that in a discussion forum. There's no proof it works on atrophic scarring.

If I am proven wrong I will eat crow.

#14 LoveGreenSmoothies

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 01:26 PM

QUOTE (Maldition @ Dec 29 2010, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Anti - Em @ Dec 28 2010, 08:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But whatever. You guys can try this and it won't work. It's obvious you want to believe it does even without any evidence it does, so I'll just stay out of the thread from now on. Meanwhile, the OP isn't even trying it but is trying to get everyone else to be his/her guinea pig. rolleyes.gif

Why your trolling?

No one says it should be used the experimental treatments, in my case at least, i like investigate and translate everything that research in a place like this, so that people can access the information, and is able to know more about treatments and discoverys, and can be discussed possible solutions.


You troll all the time, especially on my posts in the past. You once posted in the hormone section on a post on spiro that it won't work and zinc works better as an antiandrogen. rolleyes.gif That's one of quite a few that I recall.

#15 Maldition

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 01:35 PM

QUOTE (Anti - Em @ Dec 29 2010, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Maldition @ Dec 29 2010, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Anti - Em @ Dec 28 2010, 08:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But whatever. You guys can try this and it won't work. It's obvious you want to believe it does even without any evidence it does, so I'll just stay out of the thread from now on. Meanwhile, the OP isn't even trying it but is trying to get everyone else to be his/her guinea pig. rolleyes.gif

Why your trolling?

No one says it should be used the experimental treatments, in my case at least, i like investigate and translate everything that research in a place like this, so that people can access the information, and is able to know more about treatments and discoverys, and can be discussed possible solutions.


You troll all the time, especially on my posts in the past. You once posted in the hormone section on a post on spiro that it won't work and zinc works better as an antiandrogen. rolleyes.gif That's one of quite a few that I recall.

Wow really? I believe that these displaying things that are not certain.

#16 Maldition

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 05:16 PM

No news.

#17 pepo

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Posted 05 January 2011 - 06:54 PM

QUOTE (Anti - Em @ Dec 29 2010, 07:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't have the source. It was the anti-epileptic drug that's also supposed to get rid of acne scars. It got rid of surgical/raised scarring.

I haven't read that thread and I don't plan to since it's mostly speculation about things that are unproven and/or unavailable.


I don't think this will work on atrophic scarring and I am allowed to say that in a discussion forum. There's no proof it works on atrophic scarring.

If I am proven wrong I will eat crow.


Because a completely different drug that works via a completely different mechanism doesn't work you automatically assume that ACE inhibitors won't work, despite them being completely different. Are you serious?

That's like saying paracetamols don't get rid of acne so that means accutane won't get rid of acne either.

They are completely different drugs that do different things.

Edited by pepo, 06 January 2011 - 09:29 AM.


#18 mimi-87

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Posted 06 January 2011 - 11:24 AM

What types of scars do u have pepo ?
And when do u expect to see results ?





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: keloid, hypertrophic

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