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acne bootcamp by dr neal

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#21 Addie

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 12:03 PM

I'd say knowledge is always power; it just depends on what you do with it.

Personally, and referring to other medical treatment, not acne, but I think it applies in general:

I do massive amounts of research. I do not feel safe messing around with my body without knowing as much as I can about it. I follow my doctor's instructions to the letter and ask him if I've read something that contradicts with what he's saying. I actually do this because I've done research and have a better idea of what can happen if I screw up my meds. Also, I don't think I'd trust him as much if I had to take his word as the word of god.

I get full 30 minute appointments with him (an hour for huge and/or scary med changes), and he doesn't get to scratch the surface of all it's helpful to know about meds and such. And some people might get a 10 minute appointment for something as serious as Accutane . . . If my doc was a derm, I believe that'd be worth an hour . . .

On the actual topic:

I don't think something chronic, like acne, can be treated without chronic treatment, unless it's just a hormonal teenage thing or due to another transient medical condition/medication. Although, I'm coming from the prospective of a person who is going to be heavily medicated for the rest of her life anyways, so simple acceptance of the prospect of life-long treatment for acne, unfortunately, comes quite easily to me.

#22 DrNeal

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 12:19 PM

knowledge as power is a well known cliche that applies to many aspects of life....

I'm offering a situation where that rule does not always apply........ stay open to a new idea here.....



as stated, when it come to stress....., knowledge of the function or chemistry of stress does nothing for a patient....


It's only in the taking part in stress reducing activities, that stress can be reduced......


over-intelligence has side effects.............(i.e. stress)...... people on here could benefit from a little more physical intelligence and awareness rather than only western scientific understanding.......(especially in regards to the important topic of stress....)






QUOTE(turbosquab @ Aug 13 2007, 02:03 PM) View Post
I'd say knowledge is always power; it just depends on what you do with it.

Personally, and referring to other medical treatment, not acne, but I think it applies in general:

I do massive amounts of research. I do not feel safe messing around with my body without knowing as much as I can about it. I follow my doctor's instructions to the letter and ask him if I've read something that contradicts with what he's saying. I actually do this because I've done research and have a better idea of what can happen if I screw up my meds. Also, I don't think I'd trust him as much if I had to take his word as the word of god.

I get full 30 minute appointments with him (an hour for huge and/or scary med changes), and he doesn't get to scratch the surface of all it's helpful to know about meds and such. And some people might get a 10 minute appointment for something as serious as Accutane . . . If my doc was a derm, I believe that'd be worth an hour . . .



#23 duane

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 03:06 PM

there may be purely non-medicinal ways to effectively treat severe cystic acne, but i haven't found any in my 30 years with this condition.

#24 Addie

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 02:35 AM

QUOTE(DrNeal @ Aug 13 2007, 02:19 PM) View Post
knowledge as power is a well known cliche that applies to many aspects of life....

I'm offering a situation where that rule does not always apply........ stay open to a new idea here.....



as stated, when it come to stress....., knowledge of the function or chemistry of stress does nothing for a patient....


It's only in the taking part in stress reducing activities, that stress can be reduced......


over-intelligence has side effects.............(i.e. stress)...... people on here could benefit from a little more physical intelligence and awareness rather than only western scientific understanding.......(especially in regards to the important topic of stress....)


To reapply my example to stress, I'm very suspicious (to the point of causing stress?) when asked to do things without explanation. If I hear how stress works physiologically and then hear how my cognitive and/or behavorial coping skills translate into a physiological reaction to reduce stress, I'm much more likely to trust, and therefore use, said coping skills. I don't think I'm alone, especially not on this message board.

If my therapist goes through all the trouble of explaining, simply, the current thought on how my body and mind are interacting during whatever situation we're talking about, that information can't be all that detrimental to my psyche . . .

I also hate the feeling of disempowerment I get when told to be a good girl and do what I'm told sans questions or argument. It's quite sandpaper-esque.

#25 Fox0021

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 05:36 AM

I believe cystic acne can be relieved by natural methods. If you believe in the power of the human body to heal itself - that may seem normal.

I've gone from having the normal 'teen acne' to having cystic acne all over my face [check my gallery pics for proof] - and now, after almost 3 years of 'cleaning up' my lifestyle, diet, etc - I've been able to reduce my acne to an almost normal form - all without taking any drugs or even speaking to a derm for treatment.

If people can recover and heal naturally from cancer and other degenerative diseases, why should curing acne be any different. IMO, fighting the battle with acne, from within, should be victorious [given the fact that it does take time for the body to go through its phases of detox, replenish, then heal].

I had first hand proof of the healing powers of the human body the first time I fasted on the Master Cleanser diet. Then cleaning up every aspect of my life; examined food intake, rearranged thoughts of my mind, discarded recreational drugs [marijana, cigarettes, alcohol, etc]. Taking that huge leap of faith really got me to believe in everything that western medicine despises.

From that moment on, I've cringed at the thought of seeing a medical doctor. I bite the bullet to see a doctor for antibotics when I have a bacterial infection because I believe antibotics really screw us up; more so prescription drugs in general - or any type of chemical ingested for that matter. Even things like soda or brownies makes me think about how it's similar to ingesting slow poision. However, I haven't completely ruled 'bad food' out, I just minimize those things to very seldom, if not unneccessary, requirements. Just like our cars need clean fuel to run and last long - our bodies need clean fuel to thrive and survive for a whole lifetime.

It's sad how we've all grew up to believe most everything but the real truths about - everything.

If anything, acne changed my life, completely. Ben Franklin once said, "Insanity is Doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.' I knew if I wanted my acne to stop, and to get my life back - I needed to stop everything I was doing, and change it up!

Maybe all of us still and will always need to keep taking a life inventory to keep things fresh and 'change it up' to keep evolving towards our goals ... but mostly - our dreams.

Ever think of what YOU could do to make your life better, brighter, more successful? Just a thought ...Afterall, this is YOUR life. Only you have to live with your choices when all is said and done, right?

#26 Wynne

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 12:40 AM

QUOTE(turbosquab @ Aug 16 2007, 04:35 AM) View Post
...To reapply my example to stress, I'm very suspicious (to the point of causing stress?) when asked to do things without explanation. If I hear how stress works physiologically and then hear how my cognitive and/or behavorial coping skills translate into a physiological reaction to reduce stress, I'm much more likely to trust, and therefore use, said coping skills. I don't think I'm alone, especially not on this message board.

If my therapist goes through all the trouble of explaining, simply, the current thought on how my body and mind are interacting during whatever situation we're talking about, that information can't be all that detrimental to my psyche . . .

I also hate the feeling of disempowerment I get when told to be a good girl and do what I'm told sans questions or argument. It's quite sandpaper-esque.

Yep. The attitude that "I know best so I shan't even bother explaining it to you" bothers me so much. I always explain WHY to my patients as it helps them be more compliant. Sometimes they won't be, but then that's not my problem, it is their choice (and I do tell them that!).
QUOTE(DrNeal @ Aug 8 2007, 08:55 AM) View Post
...the system is headed for a change in this field....... in the meantime...., wynne is going to stay busy.... wink.gif


Yes, I enjoy trying to help people and maintain their confidence even through treatment failures. I do not understand why you do not offer more advice yourself.

#27 DrNeal

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 09:19 AM

hey guys..,

Some of you know that I run a large acne practice with a very high success rate without using oral medications....

For about 2 years now, I've been using a perfect sunscreen and nutrient enriched light moisturizer, both specifically designed for acne prone skin. My patients love the effects and overall feel of both products...

I was thinking sometime in september I would have time to send out a bunch of free samples to anyone who wants to try a nice formulation that has been well acccepted by many other patients...

was wondering if you guys would be interested in trying these products.......?


(of course..., I'm still assuming this site is unbiased and retains its original mission to find great accessible products that can help all those who are still suffering...)


Let me know what you think of this possibility...,
-Dr. Neal

*Moderator edit - a standalone post that violated the board rules. Made visible and merged with Neal Mega Thread 9/10/09*

#28 DrNeal

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 09:46 AM

I hear your point clearly.......
There is a strange stress releiving placebo-esque effect to letting go of control and empowerment and simply allowing yourself to be completely coached and paternalized...... It's a nice phenomena that requires a deep trust in your coach.....
I can tell that people on these boards have been burned by enough doctors to not easily allow for this type of relationship.... it a shame, because it posesses great power.....




QUOTE(turbosquab @ Aug 16 2007, 04:35 AM) View Post
QUOTE(DrNeal @ Aug 13 2007, 02:19 PM) View Post
knowledge as power is a well known cliche that applies to many aspects of life....

I'm offering a situation where that rule does not always apply........ stay open to a new idea here.....



as stated, when it come to stress....., knowledge of the function or chemistry of stress does nothing for a patient....


It's only in the taking part in stress reducing activities, that stress can be reduced......


over-intelligence has side effects.............(i.e. stress)...... people on here could benefit from a little more physical intelligence and awareness rather than only western scientific understanding.......(especially in regards to the important topic of stress....)


To reapply my example to stress, I'm very suspicious (to the point of causing stress?) when asked to do things without explanation. If I hear how stress works physiologically and then hear how my cognitive and/or behavorial coping skills translate into a physiological reaction to reduce stress, I'm much more likely to trust, and therefore use, said coping skills. I don't think I'm alone, especially not on this message board.

If my therapist goes through all the trouble of explaining, simply, the current thought on how my body and mind are interacting during whatever situation we're talking about, that information can't be all that detrimental to my psyche . . .

I also hate the feeling of disempowerment I get when told to be a good girl and do what I'm told sans questions or argument. It's quite sandpaper-esque.



#29 DrNeal

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 09:54 AM

unfortunately, I'm not allowed...

If I start working tips and ideas for someone who really has, for example, an adrenal tumor causing acne, I have committed medical negligence and the license I worked like an animal to achieve for over 12 years can be taken from me....

hope that explains a little from my perspective....






QUOTE(Wynne @ Aug 17 2007, 02:40 AM) View Post
QUOTE(turbosquab @ Aug 16 2007, 04:35 AM) View Post
...To reapply my example to stress, I'm very suspicious (to the point of causing stress?) when asked to do things without explanation. If I hear how stress works physiologically and then hear how my cognitive and/or behavorial coping skills translate into a physiological reaction to reduce stress, I'm much more likely to trust, and therefore use, said coping skills. I don't think I'm alone, especially not on this message board.

If my therapist goes through all the trouble of explaining, simply, the current thought on how my body and mind are interacting during whatever situation we're talking about, that information can't be all that detrimental to my psyche . . .

I also hate the feeling of disempowerment I get when told to be a good girl and do what I'm told sans questions or argument. It's quite sandpaper-esque.

Yep. The attitude that "I know best so I shan't even bother explaining it to you" bothers me so much. I always explain WHY to my patients as it helps them be more compliant. Sometimes they won't be, but then that's not my problem, it is their choice (and I do tell them that!).
QUOTE(DrNeal @ Aug 8 2007, 08:55 AM) View Post
...the system is headed for a change in this field....... in the meantime...., wynne is going to stay busy.... wink.gif


Yes, I enjoy trying to help people and maintain their confidence even through treatment failures. I do not understand why you do not offer more advice yourself.



#30 Addie

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 03:35 AM

QUOTE(DrNeal @ Aug 19 2007, 11:46 AM) View Post
I hear your point clearly.......
There is a strange stress releiving placebo-esque effect to letting go of control and empowerment and simply allowing yourself to be completely coached and paternalized...... It's a nice phenomena that requires a deep trust in your coach.....
I can tell that people on these boards have been burned by enough doctors to not easily allow for this type of relationship.... it a shame, because it posesses great power.....


I can see where you're coming from. For example, it's one of the most comforting concepts in Christianity. You give your burden to someone else (who can better bear it) and you're free. This helps many people . . .

I just don't see doctors as any more than very, very educated people, no better than me. I also cherish my autonomy and won't willingly give it up. So, I'll stick to my other hard learned coping skills . . .

#31 DrNeal

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 07:33 AM

A lot of people would agree with you on your view of doctors...., not as healers....., only as resources.....

The majority of doctors probably don't know anything about healing which is why western medicine is so statistically weak at "curing" chronic conditions....

Acne viewed as a disease sets up an intellectualized failure...., but viewed as a chronic condition, it can be fully healed..... hence the need for the doctor / patient relationship taking precedence over reading ingredients on the back of a tube....

I've read a lot of posts on here in the past few months that read "what are we doing wrong?" referring to the group of people endlessly on this site..... Maybe one of the answers to that question lies in the conversation you and I are having here....

this group doesn't see doctors as healers...( for good reason), and therefore has no one to give their burden to....... thus never getting a chance to be momentarily free....









QUOTE(turbosquab @ Aug 20 2007, 05:35 AM) View Post
QUOTE(DrNeal @ Aug 19 2007, 11:46 AM) View Post
I hear your point clearly.......
There is a strange stress releiving placebo-esque effect to letting go of control and empowerment and simply allowing yourself to be completely coached and paternalized...... It's a nice phenomena that requires a deep trust in your coach.....
I can tell that people on these boards have been burned by enough doctors to not easily allow for this type of relationship.... it a shame, because it posesses great power.....


I can see where you're coming from. For example, it's one of the most comforting concepts in Christianity. You give your burden to someone else (who can better bear it) and you're free. This helps many people . . .

I just don't see doctors as any more than very, very educated people, no better than me. I also cherish my autonomy and won't willingly give it up. So, I'll stick to my other hard learned coping skills . . .



#32 Addie

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 05:21 PM

I'm just going to be quiet after this post, because I really don't view my acne in as serious of a light as this discussion warrants. A lot of people on this board do, and this is more of their conversation.

I don't know how exactly this plays out, since it's from my doctor's point-of-view, but he lists his main treatment paradigm online as "physician as healer". I have a very good relationship with him, so I don't think our philosophies are mutually exclusive.

The only thing he's actually "told" me to do/will happen is that if I attempt to OD on meds he prescribes (a 2nd time; I got a free pass many don't get with their doctors), I will need to find a new doctor. He cited the "sacred trust" between doctor and patient: he prescribes meds to help me, and if I use them to hurt myself, something is wrong with our relationship. (My inner cynic would like to note the fact that it would have been extremely cruel and counterproductive to be "tough on me" at that point.) Interestingly, since that's the only time I've been given a direct order (or ultimatum, in this case), it's a hell of a lot clearer in my mind than had I been given lesser orders regularly. During the act, it never crossed my mind how badly I was perverting the doctor-patient relationship. At all. Which matters to me, because I don't do that kind of shit to other people (turn kindness back on itself). So, with of our one, and only one, "talk" (as he put it), he completely ensured that I will never, EVER do that again. And still note that he didn't tell me not to attempt to OD on his rxed drugs. He said if I do it (because I need/want to), it's because of a failure in our relationship.

Beyond that, he's never even told me to take the meds he prescribes. The biggest, scariest med change I ever made was my choice. He gave me the pros and cons of 3 meds, and I freely picked which one I wanted to try. Had he told me to take the one I picked, given that it had the biggest cons (coupled with the best chance at success), it would have been a much scarier proposition. Fortunately, since it was a wild success, I get to share some the credit (he says all) for being brave enough to pick it. It would actually encourage helplessness for me to attribute all treatment successes and failures to him.

It's weird. A painkiller another doctor prescribed messed me up with respect to the first doctor's job. He told me the painkiller had the potential to be at fault, so I decided to discontinue it. When I told the other doctor about it, he had a hard time grasping that my doctor never technically told me to stop taking the painkiller. (At the time, I considered it implicit that I'd take moderate-to-fleetingly-severe pain over a resurgence of depression any day, but I should have said it explicitly, because I think that's what the other doctor was missing . . . )

I admit, psychologically, he knows what he's doing. I'm most likely to do what he wants (what's "best" for me), if he presents it in the most appealing way possible. His methods also counteract some learned helplessness I've picked up along the way (like some people on these boards?). Practically, I have a voice in my treatment, and that's what matters to me. Even if he's manipulating me, I'm still getting what I want, and it's even working.

That was just the long way of me reiterating a healing relationship between doctor and patient and patient autonomy can go hand-in-hand, especially if the patient is in a particularly helpless, hopeless situation.

#33 amydoodles

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 01:44 PM

I would have to say...I HOPE SO......I am so tired of taking pills, capsules, ect....
PS.....Hi everyone..

#34 Addie

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 03:19 PM

Hi Amy! Yeah, meds forever-and-ever suck.

DrNeal,

As I promised, I'm done with my treatise on ideal doctor-patient relations, but I just wanted to say it sucks that you can't give any medical advice. Yes, diagnosis would be completely unethical, but first aid? Telling someone to ice a cyst will probably help them, whether they're a person with adrenal failure or a teenager with a case of raging hormones and some P. acnes.

Actually, yet again I can use myself as an example, because I seem to be the person I know best: I have medication-related acne. I haven't noticed many people on this site who seem to be in the same boat. (Although, it seems lithium--the culprit in my case, btw--is one of the more common meds that exacerbate acne, and it can carry some serious stigma with it, so I wouldn't blame anybody who just doesn't want to talk about it.) Yet, just about all the medical advice, tricks, and techniques on this site are helpful to me. The only difference between me and, um, more "natural" acne sufferers, is that I know how to quasi-clear my acne and choose not to (for good reason).

If medical professionals can't give any medical advice, that just leaves untrained internet nerds, like me, to do it, which is far less safe. It'd be great if you could just do something like submit your license number to an admin to prove you're legit, and then have this big, flashing, red disclaimer in your sig stating you can't diagnose anything, and you're just here for first-aid purposes. It'd be nice to have real doctors on this site, who could really help everyone out . . .

Dumb ethical codes with no loopholes for the information age . . .

#35 DrNeal

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 04:08 PM

I hear you, I hear you...... I don't feel great about teasing everyone on here about acne success and not delivering yet....

My honest intent was to give some real world optimism to what seemed like a mistakenly doomed group of people when I first joined... (especially the pessimistic accutane failures......they were killing me.....)


There is another big reason I don't give any specific advice on here.....


There is a common theme on this board that is quite powerful......... It's a spiral of failure that, for those not doing well, only deepens with every passing tip and trick.....
I'm not willing in any way to add to this spiral. When I speak about the patient/ practitioner relationship being so important I'm referring to the split second where a patient thinks what they're using isn't working and calls up their doctor to ask what's wrong......, the doctor then quickly assesses whats going wrong and makes the appropriate changes.....(if he/she is able)

Without that type of relationship, someone starts to do poorly alone..., gets pessimistic, and develops a mistaken belief that their acne is somehow more stubborn than the rest of the world's skin problems.....

I'll try to better emphasize my philosophy on this nasty condition... In my practice, I don't treat acne patients that want to come in a la carte for random acne prescriptions. (I really don't want my name on another acne failure story....) Rather, I offer a relationship that allows them to commit to my entire program and eventually get perfectly clear.


My challenge this year was working out how to bring my program to the people of this site and all over the world without leaving any sufferer's behind.... I'm not willing to help some people at the expense of making others become more hopeless....


I'm working right now on a DVD instructional, bottling products, and working out the legalities of how a real doctor can act as customer service representative for my product line without causing any medical ethics confusion...


I plan to have it worked out by the end of this season...... At that time, I plan to lauch my video project, my products, and my online service with the goal of clearing this problem up for everyone with a true confidence which will be backed up by 2 years of video work.....



I hope this explains my perspective a little.....??

Dr. N




QUOTE(turbosquab @ Aug 22 2007, 05:19 PM) View Post
Hi Amy! Yeah, meds forever-and-ever suck.

DrNeal,

As I promised, I'm done with my treatise on ideal doctor-patient relations, but I just wanted to say it sucks that you can't give any medical advice. Yes, diagnosis would be completely unethical, but first aid? Telling someone to ice a cyst will probably help them, whether they're a person with adrenal failure or a teenager with a case of raging hormones and some P. acnes.

Actually, yet again I can use myself as an example, because I seem to be the person I know best: I have medication-related acne. I haven't noticed many people on this site who seem to be in the same boat. (Although, it seems lithium--the culprit in my case, btw--is one of the more common meds that exacerbate acne, and it can carry some serious stigma with it, so I wouldn't blame anybody who just doesn't want to talk about it.) Yet, just about all the medical advice, tricks, and techniques on this site are helpful to me. The only difference between me and, um, more "natural" acne sufferers, is that I know how to quasi-clear my acne and choose not to (for good reason).

If medical professionals can't give any medical advice, that just leaves untrained internet nerds, like me, to do it, which is far less safe. It'd be great if you could just do something like submit your license number to an admin to prove you're legit, and then have this big, flashing, red disclaimer in your sig stating you can't diagnose anything, and you're just here for first-aid purposes. It'd be nice to have real doctors on this site, who could really help everyone out . . .

Dumb ethical codes with no loopholes for the information age . . .



#36 *Ariana*

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 07:36 PM

QUOTE(DrNeal @ Aug 22 2007, 06:08 PM) View Post
My challenge this year was working out how to bring my program to the people of this site and all over the world without leaving any sufferer's behind.... I'm not willing to help some people at the expense of making others become more hopeless....


I'm working right now on a DVD instructional, bottling products, and working out the legalities of how a real doctor can act as customer service representative for my product line without causing any medical ethics confusion...


I plan to have it worked out by the end of this season...... At that time, I plan to lauch my video project, my products, and my online service with the goal of clearing this problem up for everyone with a true confidence which will be backed up by 2 years of video work.....

Dr. N


Hi,

The mods and admins at acne.org have asked you to provide your credentials to the site owners before you are able to give any medical advice. So far, you have declined to do that. Since that is the case, I want to make it clear that we do not allow our site to be spammed with products, DVD insturctions, etc., unless you obtain a permission from Dan and provide your credentials. Please do not continue to advertise the launch of your products and projects on our site. Of course, you are welcome to create your own acne site and spread the word if you desire to promote. We have to keep the best interest of our users in mind and without credentials from you, we are simply not able to protect them.

Thanks for your understanding.







#37 DrNeal

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 08:13 PM

fully understand....
the internet is a big place......


I will give you all the information this winter when everything is ready.
I hope when it is, you and all the moderators will prioritize the health of this community over all business interests.


until then...
peace,
-Dr.N



QUOTE(*Ariana* @ Aug 22 2007, 09:36 PM) View Post
QUOTE(DrNeal @ Aug 22 2007, 06:08 PM) View Post
My challenge this year was working out how to bring my program to the people of this site and all over the world without leaving any sufferer's behind.... I'm not willing to help some people at the expense of making others become more hopeless....


I'm working right now on a DVD instructional, bottling products, and working out the legalities of how a real doctor can act as customer service representative for my product line without causing any medical ethics confusion...


I plan to have it worked out by the end of this season...... At that time, I plan to lauch my video project, my products, and my online service with the goal of clearing this problem up for everyone with a true confidence which will be backed up by 2 years of video work.....

Dr. N


Hi,

The mods and admins at acne.org have asked you to provide your credentials to the site owners before you are able to give any medical advice. So far, you have declined to do that. Since that is the case, I want to make it clear that we do not allow our site to be spammed with products, DVD insturctions, etc., unless you obtain a permission from Dan and provide your credentials. Please do not continue to advertise the launch of your products and projects on our site. Of course, you are welcome to create your own acne site and spread the word if you desire to promote. We have to keep the best interest of our users in mind and without credentials from you, we are simply not able to protect them.

Thanks for your understanding.



#38 Jess

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 10:43 AM

QUOTE
'DrNeal' date='Aug 19 2007, 11:46 AM' post='2003377'
I hear your point clearly.......
There is a strange stress releiving placebo-esque effect to letting go of control and empowerment and simply allowing yourself to be completely coached and paternalized...... It's a nice phenomena that requires a deep trust in your coach.....
I can tell that people on these boards have been burned by enough doctors to not easily allow for this type of relationship.... it a shame, because it posesses great power.....


That may be so. The problem is putting trust in an illegitimate doctor. There are many fakes out there.... people pretending to be doctors.... just so they can promote their product(s) on various websites and message boards.

#39 christpunchers

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 08:04 PM

QUOTE(DrNeal @ Aug 7 2007, 10:36 PM) View Post
People still haven't realized that knowlege isn't always power when it comes to healthcare...... it actually hurts people sometimes...... kind of like in my quote below.....

I said it before on here........... if everyone wants to be as knowledgeable as a doctor on acne then they will inevitably be "doctors" treating themselves....... Every real doctor knows this leads to failure....

(although, of course, I understand the tempation of replacing an $250 old man in a white coat for a 5 dollar bottle of lotion)


for example....., the doctors I've seen as patients in my practice are the worst patients ever......... the worst.......
just took care of one the other day who was doing poorly(not with acne) because he didn't do as I instructed, and instead used his own opinion to override the instructions......

when you can understand this phenomena, you'll truly understand why the internet has real side effects..... People have no faith or trust in other people who take money from them.......(there's a reflex out there that if you pay for something, then you're being duped.............. there's no partnership anymore......

I'm starting to see a whole new culture of chronic sufferers........ the ultra-intellectuals......... they classically do much worse than my simpler old fashioned trusting patients......

medicine is a art............... not a science.

Dr Neal this is one of the truest things I have ever read on this board. I myself will admit that many times I dont trust my doctors and I have gone AGAINST their instructions because I feel that theyre just out to get my money rather than treating me the way I NEED to be treated. Half of those decisions actually helped me (like quitting obagi when I never needed the program) but the other half worked against me. But whether you want to deny it or not, there's always an abundance of bad doctors out there who jus wants you to pay them money for 5 minutes of their time. They dont want to deal with your problems, because even doctors themselves have problems of their own, and of course, egos to be fed. They want your crisp bills and CC numbers so they can finance their next jaguar or yacht. Their new yacht > your face.

But you're right, everybody who ends up surfing the net day and night to try and find an answer for their problems (be it acne related or otherwise) thinks that theyre the pros, and when they meet up with the conventional wisdom of a medical professional sparks fly (may not be verbally but often happens in the aftercare of a treatment).

But how can a person not become bitter and pessimistic after being unluckily burned by a few irresponsible doctors? Its human nature to see patterns and prevent one-self to be hurt over and over again.

#40 christpunchers

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Posted 23 August 2007 - 08:18 PM

Also I find people who dont give a sh*t about their acne problems.. usually dont end up with really bad acne later on in their years, and in fact they never even talk or think about it in their daily lives. So I believe stress is a MAJOR factor in battling against acne. Can I really imagine a friend of mine having cysts all over his face? I doubt it, since hes outside all day playing sports and having fun with his life rather than sit on a forum worrying about the next breakout or how hes going to get out of a pimple scarless. You're right, knowledge does not equal to power. Think about all the people before our times that knew NOTHING of acne other than as a phase that one goes through during puberty. Theyve all seem to recovered from it just fine. The more worries one puts onto themselves, I think the higher the tenancy for one to have more severe acne. Sometimes not knowing something may be more beneficial than to know it in depth.




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