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#21 SweetJade1980

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 08:31 PM

OK, since you feel that way, then why is it so hard for you to believe that perhaps the method of testing isn't quite accurate enough?
These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):
* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)
* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002
* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)
* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):
* 1/18/08 Ultimate Colon Cleanse (30 day program)

Research:
* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).
* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.

#22 Catreena

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 12:41 PM

Evigrex,
You do not have to talk to me like I am an idiot, I am 16 years old and my mom is an RN. I have read this on the internet and in books and my mom has confirmed it.
Look at this website, (down below somewhere) it gives symptoms of IR and no where does it say anything about IR people absolutely having high blood glucose. It says you wake up with an INSULIN LEVEL of 90, not Blood sugar level. Read the symptoms, HYPOglycemia not HYPERglycemia is a symptom. I have read where after a time your pancreas can't keep up with the demands of the blood sugar and then your blood sugar is high, you then are considered pre-diabetic. Here is something else from another site that says you MAY have high blood sugar, but just because your blood sugar is normal does not mean you are not IR and the best thing to do is to be tested for IR before it becomes pre-diabetes which leads to Type 2 diabetes:

What are the symptoms of insulin resistance and pre-diabetes?

Insulin resistance and pre-diabetes usually have no symptoms. You may have one or both conditions for several years without noticing anything. If you have a severe form of insulin resistance, you may get dark patches of skin, usually on the back of your neck. Sometimes people get a dark ring around their neck. Other possible sites for these dark patches include elbows, knees, knuckles, and armpits. This condition is called acanthosis nigricans.

If you have a mild or moderate form of insulin resistance, blood tests may show normal or high blood glucose and high levels of insulin at the same time.

This is the site I mentioned above somewhere:
http:/www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/insulin.htm

Isn't it better to be safe than sorry in 10-15 years when you end up with diabetes? I think it is. If that is not what is wrong with me then I will do what my Dr. says until we do find out what is wrong. I have also read where high insulin levels can inhibit growth hormones, and guess what, I quit growing taller when I was 12. I broke my ankle and the orthopedic Dr. who took my x-rays said I hate to tell you this but your legs are done growing, your growth plates are closed. For some reason I already had the feeling I was done growing. He was right I have been the same height since even before he told me that. If I was tested for this back then would I have grown more? I don't know, but I do know I am the shortest in all of my family.

One last thing from the village idiot, I did not ever say anything about blood glucose tests being inaccurate so I don't know what that is about. All I said was IR people have high levels of insulin not always high blood glucose. Sorry if I offended in anyway, and thanks for the nice greeting to a new person on this forum, made me feel real welcome. From now on I'll just read and not comment, or maybe find a friendlier forum. Thanks.

Catreena

[/B][B]

#23 SweetJade1980

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 03:03 PM

Catreena,
I think that was very well done. It's a shame that there are people that speak to us as if we don't have a clue about our condition and how to treat it. Obviously if it's working for us, and there's increasingly recent (and old) scientific evidence supporting this, not to mention the "real" doctors and endocrinologists that diagnosed us, then WHAT is their problem? Anyway, I'm glad you were able to figure out what works for you, and you should try and save some of that energy for a few other highly "stubborn" individuals around here. ;-)
These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):
* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)
* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002
* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)
* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):
* 1/18/08 Ultimate Colon Cleanse (30 day program)

Research:
* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).
* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.

#24 evigrex

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 04:14 PM

Catreena, you are wrong. Period! Maybe im not friendly about it, but if what you post may give someone the wrong idea, im gonna call you out on it.
Insulin and blood glucose levels are always correlated, and insulin resistance is CAUSED by hyperglycemia. What happens is that the pituitary will detect a high level of glucose in the blood and will subsequently trigger the production of insulin to remove it from the bloodstream (and redirect it to the brain, muscle and fat tissue for energy) However, due to various reasons muscle and fat cells are resistant to accepting the glucose and blood glucose levels remain elevated - this causes an endless cycle of having high blood glucose and further insulin production. This will in turn worsen the resistance of muscle and fat cells to accepting blood glucse, and eventually will put stress on the beta cells of the pancreas. When the beta cells of the pancreas nearly give out, Insulin resistance will hasten and possibly turn to diabetes if the condition is prolonged. Now do you see the correlation between blood glucose and insulin resistance?

You can call any endo in your yellow pages or human physiology to confirm this - feel free. You know endos can test for insulin resistance, right? How do you ask? They look for a certain range on a dextrose challenge or a fasting blood glucose test. To say its possible to be insulin resistant without having high levels of blood glucose is ridiculous.

Jade: what is your objection to the blood glucose testing methodology? I would be most interested in hearing that. Why is it not accurate when resulsts are consistent when testing parameters are the same? And PLEASE explain to me, AGAIN, how someone who tests normal on this test can possibly be insulin resistant. Testing normal on this test means that your blood glucose is being properly stored - which would indicate that your muscle and fat cells are not resistant to accepting blood glucose.
before you judge me take a look at you
can't you find something better to do
point the finger, slow to understand
arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

- Metallica, "holier than thou"

#25 Catreena

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 05:38 PM

Thank you SweetJade 1980,

Evergrex,

Whatever, I can see that you are one of these people who do not like to be wrong. I am reading things that Dr.s and endo's and posted for our awareness and in nursing manuals. Thank you much. Also many drugs can cause inaccurate blood glucose readings such as steroids which many have the HALF-LIFE of up to 18 days so fasting for a measly 12 hours will not make the reading accurate. I am having my INSULIN level tested by my Dr. at her request not mine. What wrong idea am I giving to people? I suggest they consult their Dr., not rely on a home glucose monitor, this is a bad thing? You are the one suggesting they rely on a home monitor, to me that is dangerous. OK...... whatever once again. Doctors can rule things out and move on to something else if that is not really the problem. What can you do at home? Say "OH, ok since my CBG is 90 I'm not IR". and then 10-15 years later find out you're diabetic. Many of us are on antibiotics for our acne, these can make readings lower, and since your Dr. knows what meds you are on they can evaluate this while evaluating your blood work. Did you even read the site? Go to Google, type in HIGH INSULIN LEVELS and you will see there are around 700,000 articles on it, many written by DOCTORS. Your glucose can be high when you have an infection, does that mean you are IR? Too many variables to diagnose yourself when there are Doctors that can do it and then treat it accordingly. My advice to all was to see a Dr. that is all and if that is so very wrong I apologize.

So sorry to suggest you all see a Dr. for a diagnosis how idiotic of me.

Thanks again for your warmth and kindness,
Catreena

#26 SweetJade1980

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 05:51 PM

Evigrex,
I can not explain that to you. However what I do know is that according to the NIH and several other places, 25% - 30% of the U.S. population is Insulin Resistant. Of that percent, 25% have Normal glucose tolerance (like 7% of the population). Also, of those that are Insulin Resistant, only 6% - 8% become Diabetics. (the more "accurate" statistics are posted somewhere on this board). I believe that what was also mentioned somewhere for thse that were Normal & IR, was that they were able to produce enough insulin to result in normal glucose tolerance. Please look at this section:

QUOTE
If you have a mild or moderate form of insulin resistance, blood tests may show normal or high blood glucose and high levels of insulin at the same time.

http://diabetes.nidd...ulinresistance/



Now, I can throw another theory at you that invovles gluten & select lectin glycoproteins that like to mimic insulin. Perhaps this is how one can end up with Insulin Resistance because those proteins are doing the job of insulin, so the insulin that our body produces gets released and helps shuttle in even MORE sugar into the cells. Incidentally, those glycoproteins are the ones most of us limit or avoid entirely. Also, due to perhaps the above, as well as just overflooding your cells with glucose, one day they just refuse to let anymore sugar in. So those are some ways that one can end up being Hypoglycemic when they are Insulin Resistant.


Usually hypoglycemia is what is associated with insulin resistance, not hyperglycemia. So I don't know why you are discussing high blood sugar, when the concern intially would be low blood sugar. Although, a higher blood sugar can result from insulin resistance, perhaps similarly to the way it occurs for a Diabetic Type I, except in this case the cells aren't allowing insulin to bind effectively enough to allow sugar to enter. I believe that is when your body reaches this form you are closer to becoming a Type II Diabetic. Of course if it continues further your pancreas get burned out and as the theory goes, you can end up becoming a Type I Diabetic due to actually lacking insulin....aye

Along the above, another theory I've heard of was producing defective insulin (via trans fats). If its defective that means we have to use more insulin to get the sugar in our blood, which would also lead one to think that this form would cause Hyperglycemia.

So perhaps these are labled wrong??? When you think of all the ways you can become insulin resistant, it gets a bit confusing. Some people have even tried to break it down by diagnosising people on varying degrees of IR (low, moderate, high, severe), and others decided to just call them all IR. Frankly, sugar isn't what primarily concerns me, but rather how insulin likes to behave in regards to hormonal balance. So perhaps maybe I should speak more specifically interms of Hyperinsulinemia instead? Although IR and Hyperinsulinemia get tossed back and forth as if they are the same thing, but do you think they are?

QUOTE
Hyperinsulinemia and Insulin Resistance
Higher-than-normal levels of fasting insulin, called hyperinsulinemia, are associated with an increased risk of developing type 2 diabetes. Hyperinsulinemia often predates diabetes by several years. Among people who did not have diabetes in the NHANES III survey, insulin levels were higher in African Americans than in whites, particularly African American women, indicating their greater predisposition for developing type 2 diabetes.5 Another study showed a higher rate of hyperinsulinemia in African American adolescents compared with white American adolescents.6
http://diabetes.nidd...fricanamerican/


Unfortunately this is a condition that has been repeatedly mentioned (in studies and papers) that they don't know everything there is to know yet, let alone how to fully test for it properly. So, you can continue to focus on as many facts as you like, but don't forget that science is always changing and methods that were considered the Best one decade, may not be so the next. Of course, the same goes for what I speak of, and so far the common factor is Insulin Resistance among a variety of hormonal & health disorders. Perhaps in a few more decades they will be able to further pinpoint it or finally confirm that is what it is.


Is this over with?
http://www.clinicalt...how/NCT00001987

Agree with this?
http://vanderbiltowc...ent.asp?ID=1425


Honestly, I think we all have great minds and if we can work TOGETHER instead of sometimes against, I think maybe we could achieve more (?)
These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):
* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)
* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002
* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)
* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):
* 1/18/08 Ultimate Colon Cleanse (30 day program)

Research:
* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).
* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.

#27 evigrex

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 06:10 PM

Okay, I just dont understand this one point. A dextrose challenge tests, essentially, how well fat and muscle cells accept blood glucose at 1, 2 and 3 hours after drinking a dextrose solution. Obviously someone who is insulin resistant cannot score well on this test, while someone who is not insulin resistant will have the blood glucose removed from their bloodstream effectively and will score well. Honestly, I think its impossible for someone to test normal on this test and be insulin resistant - how? I mean....this test will determine whether muscle and fat cells are accepting blood glucose, and whether insulin is doing its job in removing glucose from the bloodstream. That is, essentially, a direct test for insulin resistance. And from what ive seen, this test is eerily consistent as long as the subject fasts properly.

Also, hyperglycemia is the cause of insulin resistance. Not hypoglycemia. Although it is possible for someone who is insulin resistant to become hypo _several hours after eating a meal_ (due to the pancreas vastly overproducing insulin once it determines that a "normal" amount is not eliminating the blood glucose from the bloodstream) - insulin resistance always stems from hyperglycemia. Hyperglycemia (and subsequent hyperinsulinonima due to ineffective cell glucose uptake) is the cause for the partial failure of the beta cells of the pancreas, and hyperglycemia is the result of muscle and fat cells not accepting blood glucose.

Oh - I just noticed this - the NIH claims that 25% of those that are insulin resistant are testing normal on blood glucose tests. This is simple to explain: the normal range is very wide, and actually....the upper end of "normal range" is considered insulin resistance. For instance, for a fasting blood glucose test 65-126ng/dl is the normal range. However, anything above 90 is considered the insulin resistant range, and 110-126 is considered pre-diabetic. This is considered "normal" because pancreatic function has not deteriorated to diabetic levels.





..ten four on your last statement...i know im stubborn as a mule sometimes bb_eusa_eh.gif
before you judge me take a look at you
can't you find something better to do
point the finger, slow to understand
arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

- Metallica, "holier than thou"

#28 SweetJade1980

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 08:54 PM

Hmm, yeah that makes sense about the hyperglycemia. Why would you produce a ton of insulin without the glucose, (unless you are consuming foods that have proteins that also act like insulin).

That would be a push for the low carb diet as at least 60% of the population consumes a diet that would encourage hyperglycemia, yet only about 25% are Insulin Resistant (talk about genetics). However, when you study the individual suspect foods, you find that some are healthier to eat than others, and others that were assumed healthier, were not so. That's why I don't follow the glycemic index/load but rely more on others testimonies and scientific evidence to control my insulin (and fat) production.


So Hyperglycemia or insulin mimickers is the cause for raised insulin, and in response, Hypoglycemia may result.

Anyway, what else is on your mind?


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):
* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)
* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002
* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)
* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):
* 1/18/08 Ultimate Colon Cleanse (30 day program)

Research:
* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).
* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.

#29 SweetJade1980

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Posted 23 August 2004 - 09:16 PM

Catreena,
You make an excellent point. There are people on here that I know are at risk for acquiring Diabetes as at least one person in their family has this, but they won't change their diets. They say it's because diet has nothing to do with their acne and when they tried one, it didn't work, etc, but OK, what if following a similear diet at least, would help them from becoming a Diabetic in the future? I for one am kinda glad that acne was my particular symptom of something wrong on the inside, not everybody is so...fortunate. Yet all we can do is share our experiences and information and let people do what they are going to do...

BTW, I read something about you being on accutane only to discover that you are IR, is that correct? Mind sharing more about this? I've come across studies that suggests that accutane actually induces a form of Insulin Resistance (raised lipids), while at the same time, battling another form of it (hence the clear skin).

My theory on it was that maybe the people that accutane was linked to having seemingly permanent problems with, were possibly the ones that didn't keep clear skin for very long as they were dealing with an entirely different hormonal situation. Perhaps, these people were like you and I, Insulin Resititant, Hyperinsulinemic or Type II Diabetics.

I don't know, are you clear now?

Thanks
These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):
* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)
* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002
* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)
* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):
* 1/18/08 Ultimate Colon Cleanse (30 day program)

Research:
* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).
* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.

#30 Catreena

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 04:52 PM

sweet jade,

I am not totally clear but much better. Mostly have it on my arms, back and chest more than my face, I am on Keflex though. Tried Bactrim and was allergic, tried Doxycycline and it did no good. I've tried Tetracycline, Cleocin, and numerous topicals including Retin A, that did no good. The only thing that cleared me up completely was Accutane. I did love being on it, the only side effect I didn't like was the dry hair. I know that my hormones were affected by the Accutane because I had no period the whole time I was on it, as soon as I quit taking it they returned. Also I lost 20 pounds and my lipids and triglycerides were great and continued to improve the whole time I was on it. A couple of times my Dr. was concerned that my fasting blood sugar was high, but since it wasn't every time she didn't think too much more about it. I have been off Accutane 1 year and 3 months, my periods are irregular (sometimes 2 in a month), I gained back the weight, have some acne but not cystic thanks to the Keflex, I think. My Dr. at one point wanted to try Steriods but my mom refused, that was when I started the Accutane.

What diet do you do to help with the acne and weight? I have cut carbs to a low point but not so low as to become Keto, that scares me a little. I have never drank soda or ate candy excessively. I love bread and pasta though and that is what I have mostly cut out at this point, and tried to incease veggie intake (EWWWWWWW). I do eat alot of fruit though and thought this might not be good because of sugar intake. If I eat a sandwich I only eat one slice of bread or 1/2 of a bun. No french fries, no battered chicken and such. I would be interested to hear what you are trying that works for you.

I actually have been trying to figure out if high androgen levels might be a big part of my problem, what do you know of this? I thought possibly the Accutane decreased my androgen level somehow which resulted in my weight loss and clear skin. Also because I started my periods so young (10) while I was on the Accutane maybe it restored my body to how it really should have been (I was on it when I was 14) and maybe I really shouldn't have started so young if that makes sense. My mom didn't start until she was 15 and my sister was 12.

I do have an Aunt who I think has PCOS and had to go through all kinds of crap to be able to have children, she does have 2 now. My great grandma died from diabetes when she was in her 50's and I have an uncle who is IDDM. So diabetes does run in my family although distantly.

I don't know I have just been exploring everything I can about all of this and I do know that you can seem to have symptoms of many different things. I really think diet has to be one of my areas to work on, I get plenty of exercise because I play sports in school and work out at home, still the extra weight holds on though. I'm not really into fasting because it makes me feel sick especially with the sports I play, but any other suggestions you have would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Catreena

#31 idealist

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 05:04 PM

ok, i've been trying to follow the back and forth on all of this as best as possible, it's sooo confusing. to make things MORE complicated....

i was researching underam arm odor and blood sugar (i've had a prob with strong underam odor since highschool) i'm dx'd with PCOS. anyhow, i came across a few websites that mentioned HYPOglycemia can cause excessive underam odor/sweating. AND that one can become (not permenantly, just temporarily) HYPOglycemic AFTERa meal, if they've had stomach surgery. ????

i don't really get the hypoglycemia/odor thing after meals thing with the stomach surgery thing. any ideas? i need to look into this more because i have had stomach surgery (gall bladder removal) but my sweating/odor and PCOS were diagnosed a few years before.

i have so many "whammies" against me...i've really messed up my body: 26 years of poor diet, 5 years off and on of antibiotics, two courses of accutane. the past year i've been on a low SIMPLE carb/low sugar/low dairy diet, and i've definitely seen the improvements. i firmly believe the majority of diseases are caused by a poor diet; all the processed and "fake" food. and the medical profession philisophy is disturbing: they treat the SYMPTOM, not the ROOT of the problem.

#32 SweetJade1980

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 07:22 PM

Hey, I don't have time to answer all questions right now but...

Catreena,
Get your hormones checked, specifically for high free androgens, luteinizing hormone, and follicle stimulating hormone, SHBG, and oh a few dozen others ;-) Basically Accutane is a DHT Inhibitior (but don't say that outloud), so it's possible that androgens are apart of your problem. If you can see an Endocrinologist mention the Diabetes and the PCOS. It sounds to me that you probably fall in that category with the insulin resistance, irregular periods, wieght increase, acne, and whatever your other symptoms are, but of course a specialist would be able to tell you more definately.


Idealist,
YES it does get to be soo confusing! However I remember a few years back, those that were following the Evil Lectin Free Diet, mentioned that it not only improved their acne, but for some also their dandruff and body order. So, I believe there is some sort of connection, but I don't know what it is.


Bye for now
These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):
* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)
* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002
* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)
* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):
* 1/18/08 Ultimate Colon Cleanse (30 day program)

Research:
* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).
* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.

#33 evigrex

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Posted 24 August 2004 - 09:38 PM

AHHHH *head explodes*
before you judge me take a look at you
can't you find something better to do
point the finger, slow to understand
arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

- Metallica, "holier than thou"

#34 Catreena

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 07:17 PM

Idealist,

Did you continue to have these problems while on the Accutane? Just wondering.... it seemed to end all of my problems if only temporaily and I wish there were something I could take that did all the same things without the side effects.


Thanks SweeJade I'll see what I can do smile.gif
Catreena

#35 evigrex

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 08:04 PM

What dose/duration were your accutane courses? 1mg/kg seems the standard to minimize relapses, but a lot of docs are paranoid about prescribing that dose.
before you judge me take a look at you
can't you find something better to do
point the finger, slow to understand
arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

- Metallica, "holier than thou"

#36 Catreena

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Posted 25 August 2004 - 10:06 PM

Evigrex,

I took an alternating dose of 40mg and 80mg. My pills were all 40mg so I took 40mg every morning and then every other day I took 40mg at night. I have heard of taking low doses for maintenence but my Dr. has never mentioned it. At this time she seems intent on antibiotics which kind of scares me that when I really need antibiotics they will not work anymore, but oh well.

Catreena

#37 evigrex

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 04:41 AM

QUOTE (Catreena @ Aug 25 2004, 08:53 PM)
Evigrex,

I took an alternating dose of 40mg and 80mg. My pills were all 40mg so I took 40mg every morning and then every other day I took 40mg at night. I have heard of taking low doses for maintenence but my Dr. has never mentioned it. At this time she seems intent on antibiotics which kind of scares me that when I really need antibiotics they will not work anymore, but oh well.

Catreena

Have you considered a indefinite low dose course of accutane? There's a lot of data showing its safe with little to no side effects. Maybe you could talk your doc into that? Personally I don't feel accutane at all @ 10-20mg per day or every other day.
before you judge me take a look at you
can't you find something better to do
point the finger, slow to understand
arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

- Metallica, "holier than thou"

#38 idealist

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 08:11 PM


sweetjade,

lectin?!?!?! geeeeez! something ELSE to worry about. well i looked it up, and of course, it's found in my fav food: beans! i LOVE beans. that's the other major part of my diet. i used to have it as a whole meal with brown rice. now i have a big salad/vegetables as my main meal and the beans (black, adzuki, or lentil usually) as the side dish. i never used to eat as much beans as i have now and i've had the underarm odor prob since hs, but perhaps i will TRY to go lectin free for a week or two to see if it makes a difference.

catreena,
when on accutane i still had the odor prob, but not the excessive sweating b/c i was using Certain Dry. just a word about accutane: i wish i never took it. just recently i realized all my weird health problems started AFTER i started taking accutane.

#39 SweetJade1980

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Posted 26 August 2004 - 11:32 PM

Catreena,
Since you are IR, are you taking any medications for this currently?


Idealist,
LOL yeah that "evil" lectin free diet is one of the toughest I know, but it worked for quite a few people. Although, you don't have to follow it specifically, since it eliminates foods that most other diets do too, yet these people did notice a difference in that area. Yet some people found that they could have legumes if they soaked/sprouted them first. So if you really love them, you could try that first before avoiding them entirely. Also, are you consuming any Gluten/Wheat or other grains? Sometimes people can get away with consuming those sprouted too.

Take care
These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):
* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)
* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002
* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)
* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):
* 1/18/08 Ultimate Colon Cleanse (30 day program)

Research:
* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).
* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.

#40 Doberwoman

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 04:28 AM

evigrex: What I have had explained to me is that you can have normal blood sugar levels sometimes when you are IR because your body goes through a stage of being IR and hyperinsulinaemic at the same time -- ie, the body compensates for the IR by over-producing insulin, so you have apparently normal blood sugar levels but high levels of insulin. This is not my area of expertise (yes, I am a medical research scientist), so I'm not vouching for the accuracy of this claim, but on the face of it I can't see anything wrong with it.

You also suggested that drugs like metformin may help women because of their anti-androgenic properties -- do you have any data on this? I've never heard that metformin or similar drugs have antiandrogenic properties (unlike say spironolactone which was not originally intended to be used as an antiandrogen, but was used as such after some men who used it developed breasts and so on)

The fact is that many women who have PCOS report that they are helped by following a low-glycaemic index diet, even before they lose any weight. Do low GI foods have anti-androgenic properties?

I can understand your frustration in dealing with what you perceive to be the perpertuation of inaccuracies, but your close-minded attitude demonstrates precisely why people don't listen to their doctors in the first place. Doctors for years told me that my lack of periods, acne, hirsutism, etc, was "normal" for someone of my ethnic background (how a lack of periods in normal weight person in their 20s can be normal... but never mind, I digress) -- most of them were quite arrogant about it, and because they were so adamant that I couldn't understand the slightest thing about my own body (despite the fact that I have a PhD in biochemisty) I ultimately turned off to them.

Ultimately (nearly 10 years later) I was diagnosed with an adrenal disorder. Well, actually the first endocrinologist diagnosed PCOS, after doing my blood work and the second, after I moved to a new town and so had to find a new endocrinologist, did more blood work and said "adrenal disorder". So much for doctors knowing everything and so much for "normal" bb_icon_rolleyes.gif