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WOMEN: ANDROGENS DON'T CAUSE ACNE

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#1 GuardedlyOptimistic

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 05:05 PM

:blink: HI GUYS,
SO I'M ON THE SECOND WEEK, SECOND MONTH OF ORTHOTRICYCLINE AND I HATE IT. I'VE BROKEN OUT LIKE NEVER IN MY LIFE. HUGE CYSTS ALL OVER MY FACE. PAINFUL. REALLY PAINFUL. I CALLED THE MAKERS OF ORTHOTRICYCLEN AND THEY SAID THAT THIS SHOULDN'T BE HAPPENING BECAUSE ANDROGENS CAUSE ACNE AND THERE AREN'T ANY IN THE PILLS.


LIKE I DIDN'T KNOW THIS BEFORE.

SO GET THIS: WHAT IF IT'S NOT JUST THE ANDROGENS: WHAT IF IT'S THE ESTROGEN, PROGESTERONE, AND ALL THAT CRAP THAT CAUSES THE ACNE.
WHEN I WAS ON DIANE 35 I WAS 100% CLEAR. THIS MEDICINE IS SUPPOSED TO BIND TO ANDROGEN RECEPTORS, BUT WHAT IF THE SIMILAR PROGESTERONE/ESTROGEN/TESTOSTERONE CHEMICAL COMPOSITION TRIGGERS THE SKIN CONDITION. WOULDN'T IT BE NICE TO BLAME IT ON THE ANDROGENS. IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE. AT LEAST, THAT'S WHAT I THINK. MAYBE SOME PEOPLE'S ACNE IS CAUSED BY A SENSITIVITY TO PROGESTERONE/ESTROGEN???? IN WHICH CASE, THE WEDDING I HAVE TO GO TO ON SATURDAY IS GOING TO BE AWFUL BECAUSE I'LL BE BROKEN OUT IN CYSTS. I SWEAR, I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE HAD A LIGHTER BREAKOUT ON ACCUTANE...THAT'S HOW BAD IT IS.

SO, PLEASE, TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK:::: I'D LOVE TO HEAR YOUR OPINION ON THIS.

THANKS
H :angry:
---------------------
God, give me the serenity to accept the things that I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And,
The Wisdom to know the Difference....

Peace..
Guardedly Optimistic

#2 GuardedlyOptimistic

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 09:07 PM

WHY WON'T ANYONE RESPOND?
WHAT ABOUT DEHYDRATION AND ACNE. I READ THAT DEHYDRATION CAUSES SEBUM BACKUP AND THE ADRENALS TO PRODUCE MORE TESTOSTERONE....UM....THE DEHYDRATION CAUSES WATER RETENTION THAT PINCHES OFF THE SEBACEOUS GLANDS??? HUH??
---------------------
God, give me the serenity to accept the things that I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And,
The Wisdom to know the Difference....

Peace..
Guardedly Optimistic

#3 frances

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 09:39 PM

I've been on diane for years - it doesn't do shit - but I take it anyway. I don't have any wisdom to add I am afraid. sad.gif

I just hope that your skin settles down as much as possible before the wedding and that you start to see some improvement soon. smile.gif

#4 Lizlee

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Posted 04 August 2004 - 09:42 PM

Hi,

I am not an expert, but in my opinion progesterone may be the culprit in some forms of acne.

My reasoning, preg women often break out. Also, I am very feminine looking, big boobs, small waist, big hips and butt. Thus, I don't think testosterone is my problem.

Well, good luck on your quest for answers. I do believe there are likely many different forms of acne and many reasons, thus making it difficult to fix.

And then there are the scars, OMG!

And prayer :pray:

Best of luck to you and everybody :lol:

#5 SweetJade1980

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 09:05 AM

GuardedlyOptimistic,

Androgens cause acne in the majority of Hormonal Acne cases (oppesed to allergic acne cases). There are other women that have commented that they have broken out from taking Ortho, despite it being advertised more so for clearing one's skin.

Now, get this, Progesterone has androgenic properties and therefore, if you don't know what causies your acne, and take extra progesterone, your body may chose to convert it into Testesterone instead. Or it may not.

Estrogen Dominance and one form of Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (PCOS) are associated with a lack of Progesterone. When these women (or men) take Vitex (boots progesterone production), use Natural Progesterone Cream (NPC) or take Micronized Progesterone, their problems improve. Sometimes that is all they have to do.

Now, our bodies can produce extra androgens that are thanks to one or more of several hormonal disorders. Both forms of PCOS are also associated with androgen production, either via adrenal glands or ovaries. In regards to the 1st form of PCOS the problem is that somehow something got screwed, and the body converts those androgens (that the stimulated follicle produces) into some estrogen (but not in the follicle). That estrogen in turns tells the pituitary to stop producing Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH). FSH is responsible for creating a mature oocyte in the follicle. So what happens is you are left with higher amounts of LH (luteinizing hormone), which encourages androgen production, and lower amounts of FSH (Follicle Stimulating Hormone). This results in an immature follicle and this cycle continues (the multiple follicles), hence why some women around here rarely or never menstruate (with PCOS). Progestrone helps because it inhbits LH (which starts ovulation). That way your body will end that vicous cycle and become regulated again.

Under normal circumstances, during this period our estrogen levels and progesterone levels drop to a lower level in order for ovulation to begin. Now, my guess is that women with cystic ovaries don't produce a lot of estrogen, but its that normal or little amount that they do, or from the phytoestrogens, produce at this time that helps trigger the end of ovulation (by inhibiting FSH) before the egg (oocyte) was even released. Again, these follicles/cysts are still producing testosterone. The addition of Progesterone for these women, allows this full process of ovulation.


There's another form of PCOS, that has more to do with being Insulin Resistant (but both can). That's the form that I have and I actually produce high amount of the adrenal androgen DHEA (but have tested negative for a adrenal defect) and Free Testosterone. Free Testosterone can be produced from ovary androgens or adrenal androgens. The problem here though is that an increase in Insulin reduces your ability to properly regulate your testosterone levels. So they give women Estrogen in the form of Birth Control, to aid in regulating this. Estrogen or Lowered Insulin levels, boosts our Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) which binds to Free Testosterone, in order to prevent it's activity and converion into the super bad testosterone, DHT.

Another disorder that is sometimes confused with PCOS is that of Non-classical Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (NCCAH / LOCAH). The primary difference here is that the body has a liver enzyme defect (out of possibly 5 enzymes) that is required for the production of Cortisol. The body tries to produce more cortisol as a result of lacking it, but only ends up only producing more androgens. Of course you can also produce too much cortisol along with too much androgens. The treatment for NCCAH is to use glucocorticoids like Dexamethosone, where upon the body regulates itself and stops overproducing those androgens.

You can also be Hypothyroid and have acne. Again, the connection here is that you have a low SHBG which we need to prevent an over production of DHT. I don't know too much more about this disorder, but I'm sure someone else around here does. Unfortunately some women with PCOS, seem to also have NCCAH and be Hypothyroid!

So if you are breaking from Ortho it may be because it has too much progestin in it. There are other birth control pills you can try. I used Tri-Levlen and it never caused me to breakout. I am not deficient in progesterone, LH, or FSH, but if you are going to take BC you do need the progesterone in order for it to work. Of course, you don't have to take BC to get clear skin.

Methods such as BC, or Insulin Sensitizers, or Spironolactone, or Low Carb Diets, work by having an Anti-androgenic effect. The either boost our SHBG or they block DHT from binding at the androgen receptors. So if you aren't happy with what you are currently using, then you may want to get more lab results from and Endocrinologist and see what your hormone levels are really like and get the appropriate treatments.

HTH =)
These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):
* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)
* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002
* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)
* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):
* 1/18/08 Ultimate Colon Cleanse (30 day program)

Research:
* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).
* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.

#6 SweetJade1980

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 09:11 AM

Lizlee,
Some pregnant women breakout and other's clear right up. The breakouts and clear periods can last during pregnancy and continue beyond, or once the pregnancy is over, their skin goes back to the way it was.

With the breakouts though, pregnant women are automatically back to puberty in the sense that they are also experiencing Insulin Resistance. Those that experience the most severe form of Insulin Resistance are described as having Gestational Diabetes.

With Insulin Resistance, like I mentioned above, it can put your body in a Hyperandrogenic state. Since androgens are usually responsible for sebum and acne production (via various factors), that is why some women breakout.

My theory as to why some women clear up, is because while they are pregnant, there bodies are producing progesterone. Progesterone has the ability to convert into androgens or estrogen (but it will be converted from androgens). Progesterone is needed in order to maintain the uterine lining and if this drops, it can cause a miscarriage. This is why some with with PCOS can't always naturally concieve or carry a baby into the 3rd trimester. =( If these women lacked progesterone, as in the case of PCOS, this may be a nice vacation for their skin as well. I don't know, but that's just a thought. Then again maybe it just helped rebalance their hormonal metabolism.

Take care
These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):
* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)
* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002
* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)
* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):
* 1/18/08 Ultimate Colon Cleanse (30 day program)

Research:
* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).
* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.

#7 Baby_Doll213

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 03:53 PM

I'm on my third week of my second pack of OrthoTricyclen... I broke out on it, but its clearing up really well, and is almost completely gone now. Are you sure its the bc?

#8 Shortee

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Posted 05 August 2004 - 09:07 PM

I have been on the pill for 9 years. When I was in High School and on it, I don't remember my acne being too bad, but it's been a while so maybe I'm not remembering right. I switched to Depo last summer, what a mistake that was. My breakouts got so horrible I stopped looking at people when I talked to them!! Finally got off Depo back on Ortho Lo now for about 3-4 months. Was on Mino too and had great results, but I was told that the pill would not be as effective with Mino so I quit Mino a month ago when my boyfriend and I wanted a sexual relationship. Now the cyts are coming back, all around my mouth just like before. I don't know if the pill is doing it or what, but I'm at my wits end. I'm 25 and still dealing with acne, SO frustrated and discouraged. I'm going to back into my dermatologists in a few weeks and I hope we can figure something else out - maybe trying different brands of the pill is what I need to do, I was on ortho tri for most of the 9 years I was on the pill and didn't see it making a difference one way or the other. :sad:

#9 Baby_Doll213

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 07:04 AM

Mino really worked for me, but my gyno refused to put me on bc if I didn't stop taking the mino.

#10 AlaynaZ

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 07:39 AM

Pretty much any kind of antibiotic can lessen the effectiveness of the bc pill. My gyno still prescribed me the pill (I was on Mino and Doxy for a few years awhile back) but told me that I'd want to use a second form of contraception also. Although I have to tell you...for the 3 years I was on antibiotics, my ex-husband and I never used anything besides the pill and I never got pregnant...but then we wouldn't have minded if I had. wink.gif


I've been on Ortho-Tricyclen for 4 years now and it never seemed to help with my acne or oily skin anymore than any others have (I've been on some brand of pill for 15 years now). But I stay on it because I found that it causes the least problems mood-swing-wise...at least for me.

Michelle

#11 GuardedlyOptimistic

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Posted 06 August 2004 - 05:05 PM

I WANT TO THANK YOU ALL FOR REPLYING, I AM GOING THROUGH A REALLY HARD TIME. THE CYSTS KEEP COMING. IT'S AWFUL. I'M GOING TO GO BACK ON DIANE UNTIL THE NEXT WEDDING AND AFTER THAT I'M GOING OFF OF IT AND ASK MY DOCTOR TO REFER ME TO AN ENDOCRINOLOGIST. IF NOTHING COMES UP, I'M GOING TO SERIOUSLY CONSIDER TAKING ACCUTANE IN THE WINTER. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YOU HAVE ALL BEEN SO WONDERFUL
---------------------
God, give me the serenity to accept the things that I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And,
The Wisdom to know the Difference....

Peace..
Guardedly Optimistic

#12 beautifulinsidexx

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 03:21 PM

"SO I'M ON THE SECOND WEEK, SECOND MONTH OF ORTHOTRICYCLINE AND I HATE IT. I'VE BROKEN OUT LIKE NEVER IN MY LIFE. HUGE CYSTS ALL OVER MY FACE. PAINFUL. REALLY PAINFUL. I CALLED THE MAKERS OF ORTHOTRICYCLEN AND THEY SAID THAT THIS SHOULDN'T BE HAPPENING BECAUSE ANDROGENS CAUSE ACNE AND THERE AREN'T ANY IN THE PILLS.

SO GET THIS: WHAT IF IT'S NOT JUST THE ANDROGENS: WHAT IF IT'S THE ESTROGEN, PROGESTERONE, AND ALL THAT CRAP THAT CAUSES THE ACNE.
WHEN I WAS ON DIANE 35 I WAS 100% CLEAR. THIS MEDICINE IS SUPPOSED TO BIND TO ANDROGEN RECEPTORS, BUT WHAT IF THE SIMILAR PROGESTERONE/ESTROGEN/TESTOSTERONE CHEMICAL COMPOSITION TRIGGERS THE SKIN CONDITION. WOULDN'T IT BE NICE TO BLAME IT ON THE ANDROGENS. IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE. AT LEAST, THAT'S WHAT I THINK. MAYBE SOME PEOPLE'S ACNE IS CAUSED BY A SENSITIVITY TO PROGESTERONE/ESTROGEN???? IN WHICH CASE, THE WEDDING I HAVE TO GO TO ON SATURDAY IS GOING TO BE AWFUL BECAUSE I'LL BE BROKEN OUT IN CYSTS. I SWEAR, I PROBABLY WOULD HAVE HAD A LIGHTER BREAKOUT ON ACCUTANE...THAT'S HOW BAD IT IS."

I speak from experience, everyone is different. You might be sensitive to progesterone or estrogen or androgens or some combination of them. Have you tried stopping all BC/hormone blockers/regulators for a few months and seeing what happens? The fact you haven't been on the ortho all that long could be your body's reaction to new hormones and will go away. Maybe ortho isn't for you (I didn't like it), but I really like the Ocella (generic Yasmin) I'm on now. I was on the shot (depo provera) for years and that has androgens in it; I went from great skin, to the worst cystic acne you've ever seen in a matter of months on it. It took me years to figure out why, I blamed stress, moving, school, relationships, pollution, etc. Getting off of the shot completely changed my skin within just a few months, and then I started trying to get rid of the acne scars.

"I'd rather die on my feet, than live life on my knees."