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Post Inflammatory Erythema?

red mark hyperpigmentation

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#61 deletethisshit

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 04:30 PM

Ah, yea. I don't know about you, but my derm who did that procedure (it took 3 treatments to remove all brown from the beauty marks) told me that the pinkness is post inflammatory HYPERPIGMENTATION (not erythema) and that it would fade... I was under the impression it would stay constant and fade over the course of a few months. Here we are 2 years later.

So the redness following co2 laser is erythema you believe? I mean it makes sense... I just don't get why they are here 2 years later...

Is it the laser that caused damage to these blood vessels and thats why now they are more aggressive and show their colour under the skin, or do you think the blood vessels are just there because the body sent them up there to heal the skin from the "damage" of the laser, and that eventually they will disappear on their own. I mean it's been 2 years and they are still present... come on...

Edited by jamesy90, 10 October 2010 - 06:24 PM.

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#62 Ziko

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 11:42 PM

QUOTE (jamesy90 @ Oct 10 2010, 04:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ah, yea. I don't know about you, but my derm who did that procedure (it took 3 treatments to remove all brown from the beauty marks) told me that the pinkness is post inflammatory HYPERPIGMENTATION (not erythema) and that it would fade... I was under the impression it would stay constant and fade over the course of a few months. Here we are 2 years later.

So the redness following co2 laser is erythema you believe? I mean it makes sense... I just don't get why they are here 2 years later...

Is it the laser that caused damage to these blood vessels and thats why now they are more aggressive and show their colour under the skin, or do you think the blood vessels are just there because the body sent them up there to heal the skin from the "damage" of the laser, and that eventually they will disappear on their own. I mean it's been 2 years and they are still present... come on...

No clue.. most peoples erythema after co2 laser (ablative like yours) fades after a year or so.

#63 kiwigrrrl

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:10 AM

New member here - been lurking for months, but this thread made me come out of hiding!

Like Jamesy90, I've realized I have more than one flavor of discoloration on my face. Some true PIH (light brown) and also the red erythema that's been spoken of. As we are all too painfully aware, this results in massively negative effects in regards to self esteem, social life, etc., so I've also done a ton of research because I just want my face back and therefore my life!

Having tried nearly everything I can get my hands on (outside of laser or more invasive treatments) I've found two things that FINALLY work for me.

First, for regular PIH (brown, grey or dark post acne marks that do not change color when pressed on) I will stand by Meladerm. I recently broke down and purchased this, swearing it was the last $50 I was going to spend (out of hundreds and hundreds of wasted $$) in my endless quest for something that worked. Thrilled that I did. It's been 10 days and I've seen very encouraging improvement - especially when used directly after gentle exfoliation. At the current rate of progress, and if I'm religious about staying out of the sun, I would venture that my PIH will have resolved completely with in two months. A freaking miracle for me as mine tends to last for months, years even!

But - more worrisome has been the erythema. Gah! The frustration of this! One day looks great, the next day, horrifying. And to make matters worse, mine lies directly in my smile line, so whenever I laugh or smile, it instantly turns bright red and stays that way for hours. Needless to say, I've stopped smiling whenever possible. How depressing is that?

The absolute best thing I've used for this has been silicone sheeting and gel. Doctors aren't even sure how it works, but it does. Slowly of course, but steadily.

If you google "silicone treatment" and "scar erythema" lots of good, though rather technical stuff is available to read.

Here's an excerpt from one study: "Facial scars appeared to respond most favorably to topical silicone gel treatment in comparison to treatment with silicone gel sheeting. Scars which were on movement-dependent regions, such as lateral chest, near the shoulder or over joints, responded significantly better to the gel sheeting. There was overall reduced scar erythema among scars treated with either the topical silicone gel or the silicone gel sheeting, compared to no change in erythema for the control scars. "

Silicone is mostly recommended for raised, red scars, but I've found it works just as well for flat, red ones. I use both the gel (during the day) and the sheets at night (just cut it to size, make sure the area is very clean and dry and it sticks fine)

Anyhow, have been using silicone since early September and have noticed a dramatic difference in the level of erythema. It's still there of course, but nowhere near what it was 6 weeks ago. They recommend 8-12 weeks of treatment total, so I've still a few weeks to go.

So to sum up this huge first post, I'd just like to say that I've been very impressed with this board, it's members and the excellent help I've received reading here. I'm not promising that either of these treatments will work for everyone else, but if even one single person can benefit, I would be thrilled by the thought!























#64 squirtle

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 07:54 PM

How much does the silicone treatment cost you?

#65 bio_nerd

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:08 PM

QUOTE (kiwigrrrl @ Oct 12 2010, 08:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
New member here - been lurking for months, but this thread made me come out of hiding!

Like Jamesy90, I've realized I have more than one flavor of discoloration on my face. Some true PIH (light brown) and also the red erythema that's been spoken of. As we are all too painfully aware, this results in massively negative effects in regards to self esteem, social life, etc., so I've also done a ton of research because I just want my face back and therefore my life!

Having tried nearly everything I can get my hands on (outside of laser or more invasive treatments) I've found two things that FINALLY work for me.

First, for regular PIH (brown, grey or dark post acne marks that do not change color when pressed on) I will stand by Meladerm. I recently broke down and purchased this, swearing it was the last $50 I was going to spend (out of hundreds and hundreds of wasted $$) in my endless quest for something that worked. Thrilled that I did. It's been 10 days and I've seen very encouraging improvement - especially when used directly after gentle exfoliation. At the current rate of progress, and if I'm religious about staying out of the sun, I would venture that my PIH will have resolved completely with in two months. A freaking miracle for me as mine tends to last for months, years even!

But - more worrisome has been the erythema. Gah! The frustration of this! One day looks great, the next day, horrifying. And to make matters worse, mine lies directly in my smile line, so whenever I laugh or smile, it instantly turns bright red and stays that way for hours. Needless to say, I've stopped smiling whenever possible. How depressing is that?

The absolute best thing I've used for this has been silicone sheeting and gel. Doctors aren't even sure how it works, but it does. Slowly of course, but steadily.

If you google "silicone treatment" and "scar erythema" lots of good, though rather technical stuff is available to read.

Here's an excerpt from one study: "Facial scars appeared to respond most favorably to topical silicone gel treatment in comparison to treatment with silicone gel sheeting. Scars which were on movement-dependent regions, such as lateral chest, near the shoulder or over joints, responded significantly better to the gel sheeting. There was overall reduced scar erythema among scars treated with either the topical silicone gel or the silicone gel sheeting, compared to no change in erythema for the control scars. "

Silicone is mostly recommended for raised, red scars, but I've found it works just as well for flat, red ones. I use both the gel (during the day) and the sheets at night (just cut it to size, make sure the area is very clean and dry and it sticks fine)

Anyhow, have been using silicone since early September and have noticed a dramatic difference in the level of erythema. It's still there of course, but nowhere near what it was 6 weeks ago. They recommend 8-12 weeks of treatment total, so I've still a few weeks to go.

So to sum up this huge first post, I'd just like to say that I've been very impressed with this board, it's members and the excellent help I've received reading here. I'm not promising that either of these treatments will work for everyone else, but if even one single person can benefit, I would be thrilled by the thought!



Something interesting about that actually, i use a really high end tanning lotion ($150.00) a bottle.
One of the features is that it has silicone in it and i have noticed that it does fade redness as i still get the odd zit that leaves a mark once and awhile but they go away right quick after one tanning session.

Here i found a link to it on sale at Amazon, wow wish i would have bought it there!!

anyways,

http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/B001320FQI

Edited by bio_nerd, 12 October 2010 - 08:10 PM.

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#66 deletethisshit

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:44 PM

You know what I really don't get? What causes erythema to last so long? I mean, are these blood vessels (the problem ones) new ones created solely for the purpose of healing the area... or were they always there but have now just been pushed near the surface so speed up the healing? And if I were to let them disappear naturally (fuck that - waited 2 years already) would they like... dissolve? disperse? retract into the body? what?

*Moderator edit,  – please read the board rules*


#67 bio_nerd

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 08:57 PM

QUOTE (jamesy90 @ Oct 12 2010, 09:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You know what I really don't get? What causes erythema to last so long? I mean, are these blood vessels (the problem ones) new ones created solely for the purpose of healing the area... or were they always there but have now just been pushed near the surface so speed up the healing? And if I were to let them disappear naturally (fuck that - waited 2 years already) would they like... dissolve? disperse? retract into the body? what?



The blood vessels are engorged (vasodilation).

It's your body's way of responding to some kind of trauma so yes it's
a healing response/process. The body responds to the trauma by widening the
blood vessels and sending extra blood to the area and there it stays until the
healing is done.

As to why you have them so long, good question. I would say it's because
your body is simply "overreacting" to the laser treatments or it could
be because you have an exceptionally strong healing response.

The main purpose of the response is to prevent scarring and infection, the extra blood is meant
to send extra nutrients to the area and speed healing. However it is *supposed*
to only last a few months.

In the picture below, the top one is the engorged blood vessel, the second one is how it
would look normally when the healing is done (normal skin tone) In the third one the skin
would look slightly paler since there is less blood flow then normal, cold air or water can cause
this temporarily.

You seem to be stuck in the first stage my friend.

so it goes:

1. skin is traumatized in some way, bruised, cut, scraped, squeezed, infection, laser etc
2. body widens blood vessels in that area so it can send more blood for increased nutrients and healing (your body doesn't really know the extent of the damage, so sometimes it sends much
more help than is needed, kind of a brute force method to prevent scarring and infection.
3. Body finishes healing and increased blood flow backs off, blood vessels shrink down to their
normal size since they no longer need to carry extra blood. Skin tone is now normal again and (hopefully) there is no depressed scarring, (that was your body's main goal to prevent., along with extra white blood cells to fight infections as well).

*The stronger this response is, the less chance you have of scarring and infection. So in a way it
is a good thing! The healthier a person is the longer their red marks will last. (usually)

The question is: How does the body know when to "end" the healing response and go back to normal, is it pre-programmed into our genes? or is it based on external conditions? and is their
a way to artificially tell the body that the healing is done in the case where it gets "stuck"

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  • dsdfss.jpg

Edited by bio_nerd, 12 October 2010 - 09:20 PM.

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#68 bio_nerd

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 09:26 PM

Just wanted to add one thing.

You know how your lips are always red(ish)?

Well that's because the skin on them is translucent and we can see below to the blood vessels underneath.

The blood vessels in the lips are permanently engorged (stuck in vasodilation) so it could be
said that the lips are basically the same thing our red marks are going through except in the case of the lips it's permanent.


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#69 Elfe

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 02:28 AM

Just came across this thread, i don't know but i might also have the same problem. Those red marks are there for... a year i think, plus scarring... seriously its overly depressing. Picture below.

Now attempting SkinPeptoxyl Derma 3-minute Peel, FaceShop's Post Ance Brightening Serum, moisturizers and a hell lot of sunblock ><

As a girl, the marks are demoralizing =(

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  • P0235_111010.jpg


#70 kiwigrrrl

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Posted 13 October 2010 - 07:42 AM

QUOTE (squirtle @ Oct 12 2010, 08:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How much does the silicone treatment cost you?

I like the ScarAway brand - Amazon sells them for around $40 for 12 weeks worth. The gel and patches together I think are like $60.

An added bonus - these are awesome for quick healing of open or popped blemishes. I had a monster one on my chin last week and was convinced it would be red and nasty for weeks after I got everything out, but the silicone flattened, smoothed and helped it maintain normal coloring after just a few nights of treatment rather than it becoming an icky scab.

The only drawback to these is that your skin has to be very clean and dry in order for them to stay put, or else you wake up with them stuck to your pillow instead of your face biggrin.gif

#71 William Richards

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 10:48 AM

would tretinoin cream .05 help reduce the pie marks

#72 HawaiianBabe

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 08:00 PM

Hey! Just wondering how your red marks are doing?
I was just researching about what you have and have discovered RED LIGHT LED THERAPY. And I was quite interested and curious about how it could help what you are struggling with right now. I actually had red light therapy at a laser clinic recently for reducing facial redness and after just one treatment I noticed that redness of one my spots had lightened a little bit. This red patch I have had for 4 months now and it has gotten lighter as time passed, but it was still noticeable. Anyways I did a little research trying to figure out what exactly I had as I have been waiting a long time for it to go away, and came across your post about the blood vessels being constricted and all that. So I dug into it a little more about the benefits of the red light therapy..

http://www.redlighttherapyinc.com/

It talks about how the ATP production is increased that helps to improve blood circulation. Which would help with to regulate the flow of blood from the areas of redness. Because the areas of redness are pretty much pools of concentrated blood that need to be reabsorbed into the bloodstream. And the red light would help to increase the circulation and help for the blood to reabsorb faster than if left alone.

Let me know what you think about this. Maybe its worth a try if nothing else seems to be working for you

#73 dannyboy92

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 09:29 AM

alright guys.

 

Just found this on google, sounds exacly like the situation i am in. noticed this thread was started a few years ago, so just wanted to know what your situations are at present and what you have done to fade out the marks? also have you noticed if the marks appear less or more prominent after exercise?

 

Cheers



#74 aquasea

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 07:12 PM

Yes, I'm sure I have this too...however, my DIY face mask with manuka honey (factor 10+) + fresh lemon juice + supergreen powder (organic 100% chlorella/ spirulina/ wheat grass/ barley grass - see Synergy Natural https://www.synergyn...per-greens.html ) has been helping...also skin needing with fresh lemon juice, plus adding rosehip oil + beta glucan liquid....
 

However, this is a very interesting article about red scars....it might be useful info for others http://www.squidoo.c...ce-scar-redness


Edited by aquasea, 26 June 2013 - 07:18 PM.

  • Everyone has a doctor in him or her; we just have to help it in its work. The natural healing force within each one of us is the greatest force in getting well.
  • Our food should be our medicine.
  • Walking is man's best medicine.
  • As to diseases make a habit of two things - to help, or at least, to do no harm.
  • Prayer indeed is good, but while calling on [God], a man should himself lend a hand.

All quotes by ~ Hippocrates, "Father of Modern Medicine"


#75 umaid619

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Posted 29 June 2013 - 06:46 PM

i have the exact same thing, do silicone sheets really work? i have fairly sensitive skin...



#76 aquasea

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 04:57 AM

i have the exact same thing, do silicone sheets really work? i have fairly sensitive skin...


I don't know...I have never tried it...I'm still using my face masks & beta glucan to heal my skin...it's slowly getting better...I'll give it between 1-3 months to see if it completely heals using this treatment protocol....if I need more help, I might then consider using silicon sheeting...


  • Everyone has a doctor in him or her; we just have to help it in its work. The natural healing force within each one of us is the greatest force in getting well.
  • Our food should be our medicine.
  • Walking is man's best medicine.
  • As to diseases make a habit of two things - to help, or at least, to do no harm.
  • Prayer indeed is good, but while calling on [God], a man should himself lend a hand.

All quotes by ~ Hippocrates, "Father of Modern Medicine"


#77 umaid619

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 10:34 AM

Try tumeric paste, i did thus for the first week and saw big improvements! however it hasn't gotten rid of it completely and it has been 3 months,..it is so frustrating,  i may try the silicone sheets, and will let you know if anything happens, i doubt it though, these things are impossible to get rid of



#78 umaid619

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 11:30 AM

Also i'm wondering if there are any Vitamins that will help it?  i've tried Zinc but it made them worse, i read online that vitamin K, and C are beneficial for bruises, could this also work for red marks? 



#79 ThisShitSucks

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:23 PM

I'm going to try silicone for my erythema, I'll post back here with my results in a month. We have to find a solution to this. 

 

Have tried:

turmeric (topically and ingested) - no noticeable improvement after a week (maybe I should have tried for longer..?)

aloe vera - this seems to be the one thing that's worked the best so far..

tea tree oil - NO, HORRIBLE. (tried this before I knew what it was)

BP- OH GOD WAS THAT A MISTAKE

 

I'd love to hear what all you have tried and what effects it has had on your erythema!



#80 merav

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 06:06 AM

Look guys

http://www.acne.org/...redness-photos/

 

 

I have EXACTLY the same problem going on my face, and I do have it for 2 years now. What i found out so far is that :

 

-exfoliating doesnt work at all, it makes it look worse for some time
-shaving makes it more red
-cleaning face with mild cetaphil helped abit

-Ive been to Dreseden trip with my class in winter and in cold air redness completely dissapear
-Smiling, stretching face makes it more red 

 

 

To the author of this thread: did it finally heal after all this time? You made this thread in 2010, how is it going now?
 


Edited by merav, 17 July 2013 - 06:06 AM.





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