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Post Inflammatory Erythema?

red mark hyperpigmentation

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#21 bio_nerd

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 04:45 PM

QUOTE (jamesy90 @ Sep 7 2010, 08:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
@bio_nerd

So you had V-Beam for your red marks? How long did you have them before you decided to get treatment? And is V-Beam what completely removed them (if so, after how many treatments)? I'm depressed now b/c it's hard to tell if these marks are fading (not just now after V-Beam, but in general, because they seem to change day to day). How many years did you deal with your red marks in total till they no longer bothered you anymore?

P.s. Sorry for the million questions lol


I had it for about 2 years. I only got one treatment.

I have some suggestions for you:

1. Sea salt. Buy a bag of sea salt from a pharmacy and put about 2 cups in a cold or warm bath (you can try both) then just get in and dunk your head under and soak for a few hours. You can also try epsom salts as well. This is probably your best bet as sea salt has AMAZING healing properties and is a very overlooked remedy.

2. Evening primrose oil, Buy it from pharmacy it's about 11.99. Break the capsules open and let them drain over your marks, then just leave it for a while. If you have lots of active acne then maybe not do this as it might aggravate it a bit. Again evening primrose oil is overlooked but is one of the very few "dry" oils on this earth and has skin regeneration properties. You can also just try taking it internally if you are worried about it irritating your skin.

3. Avoid acids/peels/AHA/BP and such as they will do the opposite of what you are trying to achieve.

4. Instead of shaving around the spots, pluck the hairs near the spots out with tweezers, that way you won't have to shave there for a month or so. Or like i said before use a dry shaver.

Basically what your dealing with here are flat scars, some people say red marks are different but i disagree i believe they are just flat scars. So you goal is to heal those scars so your body will move on to other things.

You can beat these things, trust me.

As for the v-beam stuff you are worrying about, don't. Worst case scenario they go back to exactly what they were before.

I think you are totally right about tons of people thinking they have PIH, when really they have PIE. I will also take this one step further and say that red marks are really just a flat scar.

3 types of scars:

raised
depressed
flat

all of which may or may not have the redness from PIE.




#22 deletethisshit

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 05:11 PM

Thanks man

I remember last summer I went on vacation, and being in the ocean and stuff and getting SOME sun seemed to make my red marks better. And I'll probably get an electric shaver if it really helps to reduce irritation. It's weird though, you'd think it would cause MORE irritation because it's like a million little blades moving fast.

As for the V-Beam, you are so lucky that it worked in one treatment. I can't help but worry. I am a worrier by nature, and right now they look so shitty, much worse than before treatment. I mean why do you say worse case scenario they return to normal, how do you know that's the worst thing that can happen?

Edited by jamesy90, 07 September 2010 - 05:12 PM.


#23 Trae Michael

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 12:30 AM

Wow very interesting, you say not to put BP and AHA, which I use on my face, and especially on my forehead where I have some leftover pink spots. They seem to be getting better with time though, and they are flat pink spots, the SA and exfoliating every 2 days seems to be helping eusa_eh.gif Now I can't help but wonder if these spots would be gone already if I hadn't put BP and AHA on them for months and months....Will other kinds of salts work? Like Rock salt or even regular salt?? eusa_think.gif

#24 bio_nerd

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 06:21 AM

@Trae Michael

Well i think it depends on the stage of healing that the scars are at, since yours are pink they are in the advanced stages of healing and the collagen/keratin/elastin matrix is fully formed so in your case i think using peels would be effective. Of course, don't let that stop you from trying sea salt.

In jamesy90's case he still has alot of healing to do and i don't think peeling back layers of skin is in his best interest, not yet at least.

Table salt is fine it's just that table salt is highly refined which removes alot of the beneficial naturally occurring minerals. Not sure about rock salt. Another benefit of soaking in sea salt is that it purges any active acne,
if you stay under water long enough the infection will just be sapped right out.

The advice I'm giving is that of which i have gained through trial and error and personal experience so of course - everyone is different - and i don't claim them to work on everyone.


@jamesy90

The reason i say that is because it doesn't make any sense for the v-beam to make them worse, it either helps or it doesn't - end of story. You are getting into a panic for no reason and i think you need to just not look at those things for a while to bring you back down to reality. When you study and analyze things for that long your brain gets delusional and your eyes will play tricks on you.

If you absolutely must look at it, maybe try taking a picture of it in the same light every single day that way you can get a accurate sense of it instead of relying on your memory.

Most electric shavers have smooth metal shields with holes over top of the cutters so they never directly contact your skin.

Edited by bio_nerd, 08 September 2010 - 06:31 AM.


#25 HTX_2008

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 01:20 PM

There's also reactive hyperemia, which is in crease in blood flow due to a previous state of ischemia, which is blood flow restriction.


The reason i mention this is because there has to be reason why some pimples heal as PIH and others as PIE. It's fine to understand both processes, but why are two different processes happening in the first place?

When i was a teen I remember how even my worst pimples would immediately scab and turn into PIH. They were hardly noticeable because I was often playing sports outside, so i had a good tan. Now mos tof my acne is gone, but i still get some spots. Some turn to PIH, like before, but i've started to get a lot more that heal as PIE, which i dont remember ever having as a teen. So what's the difference?

It seems to me that it's reactive hyperemia. Prior to this event, ischemia cuases a lack of oxygen (promotes acne bacteria growth/infection) and an increase of metabolic wastes, which i think promote acne in a way, either directly or indirectly, by overloading the immune system......so instead of pimples becoming PIH, which heals faster, the rush of blood and pro-acce enviroment cause a much more trauma within a pimple that necessary, opening/dilating vessels in the process.

What causes the ischemia in the first place? My guess is muscle issues. Muscle imbalances, body misaligment, etc....I actually started a thread focusing on this and received zero feedback. I'm not sure if people think it's a far reach or what, but i'm 100% certain there's a connection here and i hope some research can begin in this area.

Here's the thread:

http://www.acne.org/...ri-t267943.html

#26 Kraven Moorhead

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 05:48 PM

if my scars are pink , is v beam still a good option ?

#27 bio_nerd

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Posted 08 September 2010 - 08:02 PM

QUOTE (HTX_2008 @ Sep 8 2010, 01:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There's also reactive hyperemia, which is in crease in blood flow due to a previous state of ischemia, which is blood flow restriction.


The reason i mention this is because there has to be reason why some pimples heal as PIH and others as PIE. It's fine to understand both processes, but why are two different processes happening in the first place?

When i was a teen I remember how even my worst pimples would immediately scab and turn into PIH. They were hardly noticeable because I was often playing sports outside, so i had a good tan. Now mos tof my acne is gone, but i still get some spots. Some turn to PIH, like before, but i've started to get a lot more that heal as PIE, which i dont remember ever having as a teen. So what's the difference?

It seems to me that it's reactive hyperemia. Prior to this event, ischemia cuases a lack of oxygen (promotes acne bacteria growth/infection) and an increase of metabolic wastes, which i think promote acne in a way, either directly or indirectly, by overloading the immune system......so instead of pimples becoming PIH, which heals faster, the rush of blood and pro-acce enviroment cause a much more trauma within a pimple that necessary, opening/dilating vessels in the process.

What causes the ischemia in the first place? My guess is muscle issues. Muscle imbalances, body misaligment, etc....I actually started a thread focusing on this and received zero feedback. I'm not sure if people think it's a far reach or what, but i'm 100% certain there's a connection here and i hope some research can begin in this area.

Here's the thread:

http://www.acne.org/...ri-t267943.html


So, what your suggesting is that PIE is a sort of rebound effect from some prior localized ischemia?

Sounds plausible, I'm not sure how someone could test that theory though.

I have heard of people using muscle relaxants, massage and even acupuncture to treat cystic acne successfully.

Perhaps for some people the initial ischemia is caused by picking/squeezing, i would be willing to bet this is true for many people considering there is an entire board dedicated to skin picking.

The problem with acne is that the pool of causes is so wide and deep and also very subjective to the individual. I highly doubt anyone will ever come up with a broad theory for it's existence due to these millions of variations and conditions.

It is likely that we will continue to treat acne in a reactive way, instead of trying to understand the underlying mechanisms of it. Let's face it, unless you have acne then you don't want to spend one spare second thinking about it.



#28 deletethisshit

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Posted 09 September 2010 - 06:17 AM

You know what's weird, on monday my red marks looked terrible, and I put make up to cover them for school. When I got home and took the make up off they looked pretty bad. The next morning I took a shower, came out, and they looked great. Kind of like what they used to (that looks great to me compared to what it used to be) and it took barely any make up to cover them. Came home, took off the make up and they still looked good. I'm afraid that it's because they was still make p covering them. But I tried cleaning it off pretty thoroughly (though gently) w/ water. Gives me hope that it'll return to the way it was fairly soon. I just hope I'm not being lied to so to speak...

#29 L7997

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 04:12 PM


sweet. i will definitely do some research on this subject. biggrin.gif
my sister hasn't found a way to control her acne, and is stressed even more when the acne leave red flat marks (which they majority do. and we have asian skin. -_-). the marks last a long time, and sometimes they are purplish.
she told me that when she wakes up in the morning her marks seems to be less pigmented, and towards the end of the day the marks gradually become more obvious. i've experienced this too.



#30 bio_nerd

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 03:53 AM

QUOTE (L7997 @ Sep 14 2010, 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
she told me that when she wakes up in the morning her marks seems to be less pigmented, and towards the end of the day the marks gradually become more obvious. i've experienced this too.


Well, the reason for that is a hormone called cortisol which is released into your skin according to your circadian rhythm, most people are programmed to wake up in the morning and sleep at night so they have more cortisol in the morning and the least at night. Cortisol can effect the way scars look depth/color, red marks can look fainter - etc. In fact, it can have a very dramatic effect.


#31 deletethisshit

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Posted 15 September 2010 - 06:31 AM

^ you are way to smart for these boards. lol

My red marks look pretty much like they did before treatment again, you were right. I'm not getting any more treatments, not till at least Christmas or summer break, and only if I see a little more improvement, apparently results take a month to begin showing (though I find that hard to believe).

I mean, what's worse than the marks themselves, which I detest, is how much they change, especially through contact. This is why I'm switching to an electric razor. Shaving with a blade is the worst. You go to the mirror, your marks look pretty faint and you have stubble so they are even less visible, and you're all positive, then you shave and strip away the facial hair and aggravate the marks and they look all red, I just want to go into hiding. Honestly, I love the smooth feeling of blade shaving but it's not worth it anymore...

#32 Guest_DireStraits_*

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Posted 17 September 2010 - 03:40 AM

QUOTE (bio_nerd @ Sep 15 2010, 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (L7997 @ Sep 14 2010, 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
she told me that when she wakes up in the morning her marks seems to be less pigmented, and towards the end of the day the marks gradually become more obvious. i've experienced this too.


Well, the reason for that is a hormone called cortisol which is released into your skin according to your circadian rhythm, most people are programmed to wake up in the morning and sleep at night so they have more cortisol in the morning and the least at night. Cortisol can effect the way scars look depth/color, red marks can look fainter - etc. In fact, it can have a very dramatic effect.

So then cortisol plays a big role in the look of our red marks?
Is there some way we can raise it again so it isnt depleted so much during the night time?
And would this be a bad thing?

#33 bio_nerd

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 12:18 PM

QUOTE (DireStraits @ Sep 17 2010, 03:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (bio_nerd @ Sep 15 2010, 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (L7997 @ Sep 14 2010, 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
she told me that when she wakes up in the morning her marks seems to be less pigmented, and towards the end of the day the marks gradually become more obvious. i've experienced this too.


Well, the reason for that is a hormone called cortisol which is released into your skin according to your circadian rhythm, most people are programmed to wake up in the morning and sleep at night so they have more cortisol in the morning and the least at night. Cortisol can effect the way scars look depth/color, red marks can look fainter - etc. In fact, it can have a very dramatic effect.

So then cortisol plays a big role in the look of our red marks?
Is there some way we can raise it again so it isnt depleted so much during the night time?
And would this be a bad thing?


Caffeine increases cortisol levels temporarily, but if you drink too much it can have the opposite effect due to adrenal fatigue.

I suppose drinking a cup of coffee before bed could theoretically keep cortisol levels up while your are sleeping.

#34 deletethisshit

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 12:30 PM

I really really really fucking hate how these marks can get much redder. I just wiped them before to get some stuff off and now they look bad. I'm fuckin' pissed... V-Beam is suppose to eliminate blood vessels and even after 2 treatments it still does this? How long does these shit take to heal? Will these blood vessels ever leave on their own?

#35 Guest_DireStraits_*

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 06:24 AM

its a fking never ending cycle isnt it.
Im probably going to get off topic here but bio nerd if i can pick your brain here.
Why did my red marks get more noticeable after drinking alcohol, and in general my skin looked kinda messed up after a few drinks while all my friends can go hard on the booze and their skin will remain the same, but i gotta suffer from worsening red/brown marks.

#36 deletethisshit

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 08:00 AM

Yea it really is a never ending cycle. I forgot if you told me or not but Direstraits how long have you had your red marks again? What are they like now usually?

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 01:23 AM

Well its the weirdest thing here goes the story...
Before the age of 17 i never had that bad acne but in my final year of high school when i was sitting my final high school exam here in Australia i was heaps stressed and my acne erupted like never before and thats when the red marks began as well!
Before this period of my life whenever i'd get a pimple it would disappear and my red marks would heal really quickly.

After this event i would always get red marks after each of my pimples, i was like wtf? I've tried so many topicals like differin and duac and they didn't help much.
Im now on accutane to stop the breakouts and hopefully stop the red marks as well....
Im 22 btw with latino skin.

#38 deletethisshit

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 09:21 AM

hmmm have you had a redmark that has lasted that many years or is it just red marks in general... like it fades in a few months but then a new one comes up (perhaps in the exact same spot)

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Posted 23 September 2010 - 01:52 AM

QUOTE (jamesy90 @ Sep 23 2010, 01:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
hmmm have you had a redmark that has lasted that many years or is it just red marks in general... like it fades in a few months but then a new one comes up (perhaps in the exact same spot)


the second one

#40 deletethisshit

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 09:02 AM

I've been wondering, is it possible for these marks to be a combination of both PIH and PIE? Because I've had 2 pretty strong V-Beam treatments and the marks are still there. Perhaps slightly lighter, but still there. Like maybe there are blood vessels underneath that flare up when touched etc, but maybe there is also excess melanin being produced as well? Somehow giving it a purplish color?...

I don't know how it is normal for pinkness/purpleness to last in the skin 2 years and still be present, but at this rate, I predict it will be atleast 2 more years until I feel I don't really notice them and maybe 5 years max. 5 years though... 5 more years I mean... fml... I just hope they do keep fading to a point where I don't notice them anymore... I mean you never see adults with any red marks really... this stuff always fades right? lol




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