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Holistic Frauds


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#21 Andrei

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 08:25 AM

well i what he did can be dubbed as "colon cleansing" though, which is still scope of the topic author's assertions.

#22 LoveGreenSmoothies

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 08:31 AM

In a way it's colon cleansing, but not like colonics and liver flushes. He just increased his good bacteria and changed diet....nothing super radical.
Please only PM me if it's something that cannot be talked about on the thread or is highly personal. This way, everyone benefits.

#23 Andrei

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 08:37 AM

smile.gif don't get me wrong but the question here is be it radical or not, does it affect your body as a whole, albeit acne problems. At the very least.

#24 LoveGreenSmoothies

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 08:47 AM

Hmm...well I believe diet definately affects your body as a whole which is why I don't look at this as radical I guess. Not an overnight cure or stones coming out and such...

I guess I see what you're saying though. smile.gif
Please only PM me if it's something that cannot be talked about on the thread or is highly personal. This way, everyone benefits.

#25 BenKweller

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 12:34 PM

... Alright, this thread has a nice little journey.

Anyway -- any other contributors to my belief that liver flushing, purges, cleanses and anything else does nothing for acne but help it by way of the placebo effect?

I'll dig up some more research later.

#26 Guest_Pookie_*

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 12:45 PM

QUOTE(BenKweller @ Aug 2 2004, 11:21 AM)
Mhm -- the mod at that forum is a hypocrite.

Guess we won't get to talk about that.... <_<

#27 Guest_Tracy_*

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 12:46 PM

QUOTE(BenKweller @ Aug 2 2004, 11:26 AM)
jc.

He told me that I was being pessimistic and that if I wanted to put down holistic health that I should start other threads. I did and it lead to good discussion but, lucky lucky, he's also the biggest liverflush supporter on the board so, coincidentally, my thread was moved here.

He wants me to take part in real discussion yet then moves my informative thread to a "lounge" forum.

Censorship gone wild on the board.

First of all, let me assure you there is very little censorship on this site.

Second of all, you don't know for certain that JC is the mod that moved your thread to the Lounge. I seriously doubt JC is the biggest liverflush supporter on this site. That title would undoubtedly go to Denise2. JC's just another acne sufferer like you and I who is trying alternative methods of treatment. Get off his ass. You very well may be barking up the wrong tree.

Lastly, all you seem to do is argue and complain. If you dislike the way things are run on this site.....GO AWAY. Find some place else that better suits your needs.

Kthxbye.

#28 BenKweller

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 12:50 PM

Very little censorship? JC has TOLD me that he has deleted my threads because they go against the "pro-flush" first post. Someone says, "I've had terrible acne, I'm gonna flush," and I say, "Alright but in my opinion, it won't do anything because... _____." That post, the next day, gets deleted.

I'm not on JC's ass because he's the easy one to pick on. He is, frankly, the one who tells me time and time again that my opinion is not important because it doesn't go with the "pro..." ideals of the forum. It seems that telling him that the forum is for the discussion, not for the support, of these treatments is the only thing that makes him think, "Ok... I'll stop deleting your opinions."

I don't just argue and complain. I only do so when I have been wronged, or have an opinion that no one else has the balls to express since there is so much of a censoring-ideal here. I guess he is just doing his "job" except I wish he'd try to separate his opinions from mine before flexing his power.

Now back to the thread's purpose -- more fraud exposé! Come on, ya'll. Contributez-vous.

#29 Guest_Tracy_*

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 12:52 PM

Hmm...... :think: I didn't realize that JC was deleting your posts. I may have spoken too soon. However, I still dislike people bad-mouthing our mods. They do us all a service here FOR FREE and do a great job.

Also, perhaps if your posts were not so belittling and condescending, your words might actually carry a bit more weight? You might wanna take a look at that.

#30 BenKweller

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 12:56 PM

I do not try to be condescending. My issue is that when I see someone (won't name names) promoting liver flushing, I call it a placebo effect (and cite evidence), and then they give me their life story, how it has helped them, and say that I am an ignoramus for even wanting to disbelieve their miracle cure; I won't sit and say "Alright, I believe you."

I do not look for arguments but it seems telling people the truth makes them defensive.

Regardless, I really do want this thread to get back on track. If I jumped on him without merit, then I apologize now; it's just the historic precedent shows that it would be the easiest guess.

Now -- ANYONE want to contribute to the first post?

#31 Denise2

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 01:59 PM

Tracey don't be fooled by Ben's new and improved, polite, and apologetic demeanor. The theads that become too divisive, where Ben "water cured my acne" Kweller posted and was condescending, rude, and argumentative are the only ones deleted.

Ben does not have acne, certainly never had BAD acne, and is only here to cause trouble.

No one wants him here, and when he is proven wrong, he won't comment. Jordan Rubens' life story is a prime example of someone for whom allopathic medicine had no cure, and he came across something as radical as "homeostatic soil microorgansims". That's certainly not something that medical science has utilized or endorsed on any significant level. And that's the whole point here. Ben Kweller is just a know-it-all whose sole purpose seems to be to cause trouble. And yes, he is rude, condescending, and insults people by inferring that they are too retarded to read and research and then decide for themselves what works and what doesn't. I believe that everyone agrees on this.

I'm quite sure that I'm coming off as pretty blunt at this time, but to be honest, I don't care. Many of us who have tried everything under the sun and are now free of acne, no thanks to dermatologists and doctors, are sick of people like Mr. NoAcne Kweller coming on to this board as a troll trying to pick fights. Now that you are coming down hard on him and he senses he is in trouble, his demeanor changes and he becomes contrite and apologetic. Ain't that special..... :sick: rolleyes.gif

#32 BenKweller

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 02:01 PM

You seem to have a lot of anger, Denise.

If you don't want to contribute to the purpose of this thread, please go back to the zen convention you came from -- I will spend no more time arguing with someone who simply comments to put me to down.

#33 Denise2

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 02:12 PM

Just shows you how smart you are, Mr. NoAcne Kweller. I am not a proponent of new age spirituality. That's YOUR stereotype.

You are the one with an anger problem....anger that people would dare do something outside of conventional medicine. You're gonna save us all from ourselves.

That's the problem here, you are a troll who trolls the net out of boredom, and you happen to find a place with a lenient posting policy, and you have declared war. I have no anger at all. I'm challenging your "new and improved" image before the moderators. That's all.... smile.gif

#34 BenKweller

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 02:14 PM

...

Alright. So would you like to contribute a story about liver flushing being a fraud or colonics endangering people? If not, please stay away from this thread as you would be violating a board policy.

Fighting is against the rules here.

Thanks.

#35 Denise2

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 02:19 PM

EEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWW I'm scaid! :ph34r: :shifty:

#36 Guest_Scorpioness_*

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 02:25 PM

QUOTE(Denise2 @ Aug 2 2004, 02:06 PM)
EEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWW I'm scaid! :ph34r:  :shifty:

LMFAO biggrin.gif :lol: wink.gif lol.gif razz.gif

#37 Guest_Tracy_*

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 03:02 PM

QUOTE(Denise2 @ Aug 2 2004, 12:46 PM)
Tracey don't be fooled

Denise,

I'm not the type to become easily fooled; however, JC did suggest that Ben create a new thread where he can discuss his views on holistic medicine and so he did. I've been reading his posts for quite some time now and commented several posts back.

Perhaps if we allow Ben some respect in this thread without becoming argumentative, he will allow us the same respect in all the other threads in this forum? (Ben?)

#38 jc

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 03:40 PM

BenKWeller,

Why don't you ask me before assuming that I moved or deleted your thread?

Point of fact...I didn't move your thread to the lounge. I was perfectly happy to have it in the diet/holistic health forum. Another mod must've moved it to the lounge, and I'm sure that s/he had her reasons.

You are very welcome to have discussions on holistic health and alternative remedies as they interest you so much. As to why you feel the need to dedicate nearly 100% of your time in putting them down, I do not know nor do I care. You have the right to lead your own life.

As to why I delete some of your posts, it's because when people ask questions regarding methods of alternative medicine and otherwise, you constantly stick your nose into people's businesses saying that it's a fraud, a fake, and that people are only out for money. That is not why some people start threads. Many people start threads because they want their questions answered. Not because they want to put up with non-believers.

Example: If someone starts a thread, "Tell me about your colonic experience, I just had one!". If you've never had a colonic before, then how can you possibly justify posting your opinion in this thread? They obviously want to hear other people's experiences. Not about someone who has never tried it before. It's all common sense.

If someone posts, "Do you believe in colonics?", then post away.

Like Tracy said, we should all respect each other and each others' space. This is his thread to vent in, and we should all give him this space.

_____________________________________________________

This is why I think this thread is ok. Everyone else...let this thread continue on as it should. For those who don't believe in holistic health, they will discuss. If not, then simply don't click on this thread.

Ben, although you do owe me one, I don't not want nor need your apology for accusing me of moving this thread.

jc
Life is but a breath. Here is my story...

#39 BenKweller

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 04:05 PM

Aight, sorry. lol, peace.

#40 Guest_Tracy_*

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 04:52 PM

I must admit, I do agree with Ben in that we should do our best to discern the holistic freaks out there who are only out to make a quick buck from the people who honestly desire to find natural solutions to their health problems and, in turn, would like to share that info with others.

To insist that money hungry holistic freaks do not exist is to live in denial, IMO, because they truly do exist and some of them prey on people who have lost hope with western medicine and that is just wrong. And the other side of the coin is that natural remedies do help people. Many people in many ways.