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#61 flipside

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Posted 24 July 2004 - 01:11 AM

heres a database i found which has all the nutrient measurments for just about any food:

http://www.nal.usda....oodcomp/search/

this is an article about different types of sugars. it says that sucrose (white table sugar) is the main bad guy because "It demands the production of insulin by our pancreas, causes significant fluctuation in blood-sugar levels, and robs nutrients from various stores in our bodies in order to be digested."

http://www.afpafitne...s/CutSugar.html

#62 evigrex

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Posted 24 July 2004 - 06:59 AM

QUOTE(SweetJade1980 @ Jul 23 2004, 09:48 PM)
Evigrex,

Accutane, 13-Cis Retinoic Acid, and Isotretinion are all the same things. 

LOL, I know that a body building site isn't the most accurate source, but majority of that information was correct, and of course who knows better about the effects of testosterone then they...or the hormonally imbalanced, like myself.

If you don't want to believe those studies, so be it, but males and females are capable of being hyperandrogenic.  Usually there is a decrese in SHBG as a result of having too much androgens; they are each others antagonist.  A decrease in SHBG is also considered to be a greater marker for Insulin Resistance, than IGF-1 (something accutane also inhibits).

Furthermore, certain adrenal abnormalities resulting in production of too much or too little cortisol, have also lead to an overproduction of male steriod hormones. This process works similarly along the lines of how Insulin Resistance Syndrome is thought to produce excess androgens....overcompensation or rather, overstimulation. See NCCAH / LOCAH, Cushings, Hypercortisolism, etc

Yes, I too found some studies that showed a change over time in most or all male steriod hormone levels and some studies said "there was no change".  These numbers also varied depending on not just gender but wether the subjects were obese, which is why most recent studies are more preferred. However there were recent studies that showed that DHT production was affected in both males and females in the skin or other target tissues (as is where most DHT is produced, not in the blood stream). Also, since various DHT Inhibitor, Anti-Androgen, Insulin Sensitizing medications, etc. don't affect the same pathways, I would expect to see a variance here as well. I''ve never been the one to argue about that with you.

The Pituary gland does not produce nor directly affect enzyme production, the LIVER, pancreas, and other digestive organs do.  Therefore, no I wouldn't expect to see a change in 5 Alpha Reductase or any other androgenic enzyme as the liver produces these.  The liver also produces 13-cis retinoic acid via a CYP450 enzyme, but this pathway can be defective as well.

Now, as for the Pituitary gland:

QUOTE
The anterior pituitary secretes four tropic hormones and two regular hormones  

Here are the hormones, starting with the tropic hormones, and finishing with the regular ones:

1. TSH-- thyroid stimulating hormoneThis hormone influences thyroid gland secretion of hormones.

2. ACTH-- adrenocorticotropic hormoneDo you see the "tropic" in its name?  Good!  It works on the adrenal cortex (adrenocortico-).

3. LH-- luteinizing hormone – [or ISCH stimulates testosterone production]

4. FSH-- follicle stimulating hormone – [stimulates progesterone & estrogen production]

These last two together are often termed "gonadotropins" because they exert a tropic hormone effect on the gonads, influencing gonadal secretion of sex hormones.


5. PRL-- prolactin

6. GH-- growth hormone [stimulates IGF-1 production in the liver]

The functions of the last two merit a bit more description.  PRL is pretty straightforward in females, promoting milk production by the mammary glands.  In males, PRL has the function of actually decreasing LH secretion.  Therefore, in males, PRL actually acts like a tropic hormone, more specifically as an inhibitory tropic hormone.   

GH stimulates cells to grow in size, speed up their mitotic cycle (dividing faster), increases protein synthesis, and more.  These functions of GH lead to growth!  Because its effects are so dramatic, problems in GH secretion are also dramatic.  For example, dwarfism and acromegaly are both cases of altered GH secretion.  Take a look at your book and the PowerPoint presentation for more on this.
http://distance.stcc...ne/hypothal.htm


However, the pituitary gland can indirectly affect enzyme production through negative feedback inhibition as well as when it's tropic hormones are released to act upon the ovaries, testes, or adrenal glands in order to produce steriod hormones, etc.

HTH

Evigrex,

Accutane, 13-Cis Retinoic Acid, and Isotretinion are all the same things.

13-cis-RA was a chemically made derivative of RA was my understanding... I may be wrong

If you don't want to believe those studies, so be it, but males and females are capable of being hyperandrogenic. Usually there is a decrese in SHBG as a result of having too much androgens; they are each others antagonist. A decrease in SHBG is also considered to be a greater marker for Insulin Resistance, than IGF-1 (something accutane also inhibits).

I'm telling you I look at this type of bloodwork all the time and SHBG is nearly *always* right around 2% of total testostrerone, regardless of whether the person has acne or not. There are no studies that i'm aware of that shows that using something that lowers SHBG will have an effect on other androgens....come to think of it, the drug mesterolone does just that and I know it doesn't cause an increase in the production of other androgens

Furthermore, certain adrenal abnormalities resulting in production of too much or too little cortisol, have also lead to an overproduction of male steriod hormones. This process works similarly along the lines of how Insulin Resistance Syndrome is thought to produce excess androgens....overcompensation or rather, overstimulation. See NCCAH / LOCAH, Cushings, Hypercortisolism, etc

the study you posted showed that excess adrenal hormone production can cause acne. There is no argument there, that should be obvious. But the link between that and androgen production....uh, I have never seen that. The only case I think of is if someone has a pituitary tumor, but otherwise I don't believe they are linked. But let's keep the topic on androgens, that study you posted was a slipup on your part, admit it heh

Yes, I too found some studies that showed a change over time in most or all male steriod hormone levels and some studies said "there was no change". These numbers also varied depending on not just gender but wether the subjects were obese, which is why most recent studies are more preferred. However there were recent studies that showed that DHT production was affected in both males and females in the skin or other target tissues (as is where most DHT is produced, not in the blood stream). Also, since various DHT Inhibitor, Anti-Androgen, Insulin Sensitizing medications, etc. don't affect the same pathways, I would expect to see a variance here as well. I''ve never been the one to argue about that with you.

really? Where are these studies. I want studies that show a signifigant decrease in testosterone > DHT conversion. Not in the skin either, I'm not arguing that.
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#63 evigrex

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Posted 24 July 2004 - 07:06 AM

I just thought of something else. Accutane *causes* insulin resistance during therapy which will go away after cessation....since accutane causes insulin resistance, why isn't androgen production going up signifigantly? Interesting quesiton I think smile.gif
before you judge me take a look at you
can't you find something better to do
point the finger, slow to understand
arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

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#64 SweetJade1980

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Posted 24 July 2004 - 08:12 AM

Evigrex,
Yup I noticed that accutane causes insulin resistance 2 years ago too. It is interesting huh, and someone pointed out to me that maybe that is why some people experience an initial breakout. ;-) What do you think?

Regardless though, just as some antibiotics can increase DHT production (minocycline for example), yet still reduces inflammation, thus overriding the effect of increased DHT. I guess in accutane's case it uses IGF-1 inhibition and it's DHT Inhibitiing abilities to override the fact that it produces a few other characteristics of Insulin Resistance such as, higher triglyceride levels.


QUOTE
Accutane, 13-Cis Retinoic Acid, and Isotretinion are all the same things.

13-cis-RA was a chemically made derivative of RA was my understanding... I may be wrong


13-cis-retinoic acid is produced naturally in the body and is also synthetic via Accutane. Those studies I posted mention the use of Accutane, Isotretinion AND 13-cis Retinoic Acid Therapy as reducing acne via DHT Inhibition and IGF-1 binding.


QUOTE
INTRODUCTION: Treatment failures with isotretinoin in female patients are frequently related to endocrinological dysfunctions. Such a concept has never been discussed in male patients. CASE REPORTS: An extensive endocrinological work-up has been performed in nine male patients who presented with an acne refractory to conventional treatment and to isotretinoin. Adrenal dysfunction was found in four patients and isolated 5-alpha reductase hyperactivity in 2 cases. Three work-ups were normal. A suppressive treatment in three patients with adrenal dysfunction provided immediate efficacy. COMMENTS: These results would provide insight into the mechanism of refractory acne in men."


This is exactly what I'm talking about! Just because this study mentions adrenal production, you focus ONLY on that and ignore the fact that it's stating what their observances in those individuals that did not improve from Isotretinion (Accutane) were and that 2 of those causes dealt with 5 Alpha Reductase hyperactivity. The Adrenals produce DHEA which after a serious of conversions turns into Testosterone. DHT isn't usually produced until it reaches it's target areas, in the SKIN, Prostate, and a few other areas (though there's descrepancies there). It requires a Gland or Tissue to act upon in 80% of the cases. If you suppress it's conversion, it doesn't always have to show a change in other male hormones, although you may have an increase in other male hormones, or your liver may be better at eliminating that increased amount so that levels appear in a normal ratio. This holds true whether it is your adrenals, ovaries, or testes that produce androgens and I've posted nurmerous studies that shows this.


Furthermore, I've never had my SHBG tested as far as I know. Yet I know that it usually goes down in certain hormonal imbalances, as in when there is too little estrogen, or too much insulin or androgens. I HAVE shown you studies that continue to show that this is a true observance! It's goal is to Bind FREE ANDROGENS, more so than estrogen, and as such if you have a HIGHER than normal Free Androgen count, as I do, it shows that you are either producing too much free androgens or that you don't have enough SHBG to bind its activity and prevent it from converting into MORE than "normal" DHT amounts. This DOES NOT mean that you always produce too much Total Testosterone, as I produced a normal amount when my blood work was done.


Good day
These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):
* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)
* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002
* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)
* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):
* 1/18/08 Ultimate Colon Cleanse (30 day program)

Research:
* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).
* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.

#65 SweetJade1980

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Posted 24 July 2004 - 08:39 AM

Evigex,
Incidentally, I used an Insulin Sensitizing drug to boost my levels of SHBG in order to fight my high free androgen levels. BC did the same thing, but avandia did it better.


MALES:

QUOTE
Metabolism. 2003 Feb;52(2):230-2.  Related Articles, Links 

 
Reduced production rates of testosterone and dihydrotestosterone in healthy men treated with rosiglitazone.

Vierhapper H, Nowotny P, Waldhausl W.

Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Internal Medicine III, University of Vienna, Vienna, Austria.

The effect of the thiazolidinedione, rosiglitazone (8 mg/d for 7 days), on the production rates of testosterone (T), dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and cortisol (F) was studied in healthy men (n = 10) using the stable isotope dilution technique and mass spectrometry. Treatment with rosiglitazone resulted in a decrease in the production rates of T from, basal, 318 +/- 62 microg/h to 272 +/- 72 microg/h (P <.05). Production rates of DHT fell from, basal, 21 +/- 6 microg/h to 17 +/- 5 microg/h (P <.05). Hence, the ratio calcuated from the production rates of T and DHT was unchanged (basal, 17 +/- 7; rosiglitazone, 17 +/- 3). Production rates of cortisol were unchanged (basal, 577 +/- 136 microg/h; rosiglitazone, 627 +/- 141 microg/h). These results suggest that a clinically relevant dose of at least one thiazolidindione, rosiglitazone, impedes the production of testosterone in man. Copyright 2003, Elsevier Science (USA). All rights reserved
http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=12601638



FEMALES:

QUOTE
Fertil Steril. 2003 Mar;79(3):562-6.  Related Articles, Links 

 
Effect of rosiglitazone on spontaneous and clomiphene citrate-induced ovulation in women with polycystic ovary syndrome.

Ghazeeri G, Kutteh WH, Bryer-Ash M, Haas D, Ke RW.

Division of Reproductive Endocrinology, Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, University of Tennessee Health Science Center, Memphis 38163, USA.

OBJECTIVE: In women suffering from polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS), correction of hyperinsulinemia results enhances spontaneous ovulation or alternatively, the responsiveness to ovulation induction agents such as clomiphene citrate (CC). We investigated the effect of rosiglitazone maleate on ovulation induction in overweight and obese, CC-resistant women with PCOS. DESIGN: Double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial. SETTING: Academic reproductive endocrinology clinic. PATIENT(S): Overweight and obese women with clinical and laboratory manifestations of PCOS who desired pregnancy and were resistant to CC. INTERVENTION(S): Twenty-five women were randomized into two treatment groups. Subjects in Group I (n = 12) were randomized to receive rosiglitazone 4 mg b.i.d. with a placebo on cycle days 5-9. Group II (n = 13) was randomized to receive rosiglitazone 4 mg b.i.d. with CC on cycle days 5-9. The duration of the study was 2 months. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S): The primary outcome was ovulation as defined by luteal serum progesterone greater than 5 ng/dL assessed on days 21, 24, and 28 of the cycle. Secondary outcomes were pregnancy and changes in insulin sensitivity, serum lipoproteins, and androgens. RESULT(S): Overall, 14 of 25 (56%) women, who were previously resistant to CC, successfully ovulated. In subjects taking rosiglitazone alone (Group I), 4 of 12 (33%) subjects ovulated compared with 10 of 13 (77%) women randomized to rosiglitazone with CC (Group II) (P=.04, Fisher's exact). One subject in Group I became pregnant, resulting in one uncomplicated live birth; two subjects in Group II conceived, with one successful live birth and one first trimester, spontaneous abortion. For all subjects, fasting insulin declined from 29.4 +/- 13.8 microU/mL to 17.3 +/- 7.8 microU/mL after rosiglitazone (P=.003, paired t-test). Although mean levels of total testosterone (T) and dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHEAS) did not decline significantly, sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) did increase from 0.7 +/- 0.3 microg/dL to 1.0 +/- 0.3 microg/dL after rosiglitazone therapy (P=.001, paired t test). There was also a decrease in luteinizing hormone (LH) from 9.4 +/- 6.3 mU/mL to 7.2 +/- 3.7 mU/mL (P=.01). Lipoproteins including total cholesterol, low-density lipoprotein (LDL), high-density lipoprotein (HDL), and triglycerides did not change. CONCLUSIONS: Short-term rosiglitazone therapy enhances both spontaneous and clomiphene-induced ovulation in overweight and obese women with PCOS. Rosiglitazone therapy improves insulin sensitivity and decreases hyperandrogenemia primarily through increases in SHBG.  http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=12620440


Like I mentioned earlier, these results support what my blood work also showed. If left untreated I have HIGHER than normal for females, DHEA and FREE ANDROGEN. I have Normal DHEA-S and Total Testosterone. During Treatments with BC, BC - Spiro, and Spiro-Avandia, my DHEA-S and Total Testosterone remained Normal, but my DHEA and Free Testosterone, decreased! Of course, dietary changes, reducing insulin response, produced even better results ;-)
These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):
* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)
* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002
* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)
* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):
* 1/18/08 Ultimate Colon Cleanse (30 day program)

Research:
* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).
* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.

#66 evigrex

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Posted 24 July 2004 - 01:20 PM

Hmm, thats interesting. I know that thiazolidinediones reduce testosterone in males, as do all anti-diabetic agents (which results in a shot libido for most people, but thats a story for another time..) but i'm not so sure the actions are so clear. Its interesting that they combined avandia with clomiphene citrate in the second study, because acne is a large complaint for both males and females taking clomiphene. Clomiphene raises total testosterone *signifigantly* in men with increasing SHBG during use, and shbg usually returns to normal afterwards...i'm not so sure why they would include clomiphene in their drug stack. But then again i'm not a woman and I don't have PCOS, maybe you can shed light on that

As far as adrenal hyperactivity....you spent most of that post talking about androgens and what not and all of a sudden, out of the blue post a study about adrenal hyperactivity. Yes, I know that adrenal hyperactivity may increase acne in some but not all individuals. And yes, the amount of androgens produced by the adrenal gland is *minimal* compared to the testes (which produces testosterone, testosterone is converted into more target hormones..) There are many more factors into why hyperactivity can cause acne, such as increased T4>T3 conversion (which increases sebum production..) increased cortisol (increased stress) and increased epinephrine and norepinephrine production (both of which increase sebum production.)

By the way did you experience any sort of weight gain, edema, or signifigant loss of libido while taking avandia - avandia has been of interest to me since it can potentially enhance amino acid uptake to muscle, but fat gain and lowered libido especially would offset that. Browining google, it seems there are tons of folks complaining about weight gain and postprandial bloat from rezulin, actos and avandia... just curious if you've had any such problems
before you judge me take a look at you
can't you find something better to do
point the finger, slow to understand
arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

- Metallica, "holier than thou"

#67 SweetJade1980

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Posted 24 July 2004 - 06:33 PM

Evigrex,
Yup, I absolutely experienced wieght gain and I was soo happy about it. Initially I didn't know that it was a possible side effect until a year later I was browsing the PCOS boards. What I noticed was that I gained 5lbs for every 2mg I took. I took 2mg of Avandia w/Spiro for 1 year & gained 5lbs almost immediatly and then I took 4mg w/Spiro & dietary changes for 3 months & gained another 5lbs almost immediately.

I was soo happy to have wieght in "the right places", but unfortunately as soon as I stopped taking it...I lost that extra 10lbs and now I've got clothes in my closet that are a bit too big for me =( Other than that, I didn't have any other side effects and my hormone (androgens weren't balanced enough) and liver levels were normal. In fact my LDL and Triglycerides dropped BELOW ref. ranges when I was on 4mg of Avandia & Dietary Changes. I would like to think it was due to dietary changes, but as I don't have those test results (of diet only with me) I can't truly say what helped.

As for the Clomiphene, well I guess they did it to see which is the stronger drug. I've seen studies where they will combine Accutane & Testosterone vs, Testosterone in order to see which produced better results. I'd rather not go into that thing again, but I was just using it as an example ;-)


Anyway, I really don't remember what the point to this debate was all about anymore. Since this is a diet-acne study thread, wouldn't you rather just talk about that? I'm not saying that ALL acne is due to the "wrong" diet, nor am I saying that the wrong Diet will give EVERYONE acne, but for some of us, that is the case. I was just explaining it to you in regards to Insulin Resistance as that is how I know the majority of my dietary changes has helped me.

Take care

P.S. I was on Glucophage (Metaformin) for 3 months and it made me sick and bloated. Plus I would get really sick whenever I drank alcohol while under either Met or Avandia. I don't really drink anyway, but it was my 21st and 22nd B-day and my friends gave me my fav. drink only it wasn't a Virgin Pina Colada, and I got sick.
These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):
* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)
* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002
* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)
* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):
* 1/18/08 Ultimate Colon Cleanse (30 day program)

Research:
* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).
* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.

#68 evigrex

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Posted 24 July 2004 - 06:46 PM

Was your weight gain evenly distributed or predominantly located in the abdomen? Just curious, cuz I know IR causes abdominal fat gain primarily.

I could use some weight though, i'm 6'1" and weight between 150-160 right now since I haven't been to a gym in a long time....when I get back into it I may seek pharmaceutical assistance to gain weight since I have a friend thats a doc.

Anyways.....I don't really feel like debating anymore cuz i'll never win...heh (raises white flag) :unsure: Apologies for the harshness in some of my earlier posts its usually not like me to be an a-hole like that
before you judge me take a look at you
can't you find something better to do
point the finger, slow to understand
arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

- Metallica, "holier than thou"

#69 SweetJade1980

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Posted 25 July 2004 - 01:33 PM

OMG, Flipside I have been looking for a nutrient site like that for months now. Thank you, thank you, thank you =)
These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):
* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)
* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002
* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)
* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):
* 1/18/08 Ultimate Colon Cleanse (30 day program)

Research:
* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).
* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.

#70 flipside

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Posted 26 July 2004 - 06:34 AM

happy to help, sweetjade.

btw, the fatty acids are listed in chemical terms (16:1, 18:1) so you might have to do some homework to learn which is which.

and it doesn't list the different types of carbs but you probably know all that stuff anyway.

#71 SweetJade1980

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Posted 26 July 2004 - 02:57 PM

QUOTE(Chloe646 @ Jul 24 2004, 12:17 AM)
Hey, in this months glamour magazine, a doctor is quoted as saying that eating too many refined carbs CAUSES ACNE:::::::there go the arguments for people waiting with baited breath for a prescious med figure to say diet can cause acne:

Hey SweetJade:

yeah, what a lot of people see as a strict diet is just a diet that is natural and devoid of crap..damn, it's easier to eat healthy in poor rural countries than the US!!!!! I eat lots of bananas, they seem not to affect my skin...but upping the veggie intake, whoa does that make a diff obviously cause you're upping the vitamins you're eating. a lot of veggies contain plenty of Vit. C>people seem to only think fruits are the best source of that.....ANYWAY, are you using any topicals? Witch hazel is fantastic....these changes have literally made my pores look like they've disappeared in some places! and the best part, you don't have to deal with flakiness and red skin from too much topical.  the changes are so apparent sometimes I run over and over to a mirror checking under lights that shine DOWN (the worst angle, unless your a six year old haha) and yup diet did ALL that in a few weeks. Woo woo : )

Also, Corn is a grain, I actually don't feel too great when i eat it even tho it doesn't make me break out. have you tried buckwheat? that tastes pretty good.  And are you taking supplements?I take selenium and coQ10 (anti oxidants)

Chloe,
It's always nice to see more people understanding the role food plays in our life. Most definately I've gotta up my veggie intake and hopefully that will make the last bit of difference (placebo effect or not). From what I've read, I personally feel that they are much healthier than fruits, and of coure have far less cavity causing sugar ;-)

Corn and wheat are a huge part of the diet where I live (ha ha obesity and type II diabetes is rather prevelant here to), and so if I had to eliminate corn, I may not too happy. Although, I dont eat it as often as I did when I first changed my diet, it is still one of my grain stapels. As for buckwheat, I know that it or amaranth, is much healthier nutritonally than wheat, but the buckwheat waffles I had didn't taste so good. Any other suggestions?

That's what I love about using more natural based or chiral based skin care. Mind you, "doubters' I changed my skin care years before switching my diet and while it helped, it doesn't prevent breakouts nor eliminate body acne (that would be too expensive). Right now all I use is a Cleanser, Lotion w/sunscreen, and at night I wipe my face with 50/50 Apple Cider Vinegar & Water Solution that also contains 6 aspirin tablets. I chose this route because I hyperpigment easily and was afraid to try the stronger peels. I also use a skin lightener (liquid gel) on spots to help those go away faster.


As for supplements, since changing my diet, I take Benefiber because I don't eat enough fiber from whole grains (rice) or Veggies. I am also currently testing out this Mega Folic Acid Therapy. A few years back the owner of Stretchmarks.com suggested to me that I should increase my folic acid content to 800mcg as this helps with pigmentation. Well I never took her up on this offer, but when I heard that this Therapy could also reduce hirsuitism, I jumped on it. It consists of taking 40 - 60mg of Folic Acid, 1 - 2 g of PABA, and 6 - 18mg of Boron. I chose to take the highest amounts of each, but for the moment I'm only consuming half doses. I bought the Folic Acid and PABA in bulk powder form so I have years of this stuff and drink that mixed with water (as B Vitamins are water soluble and folic acid is also good for our teeth). I've been doing this for 2 weeks now and so far the only thing I've noticed is that my skin marks seem to be healing a bit faster. The scientific mechanism behind this is that these supplements boost estrogen production or act as estrogens, which means they should theoretically be boosting my SHBG (which binds free testosterone to) in hopes of reducing excess DHT production. I'll have to try the max dose soon and see what results it brings as the woman that tipped me off to this regimen from "The Atkins Vita-Nutrient Solution " said tht the higher the dose, the better her results were.

Bye for now =)
These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):
* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)
* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002
* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)
* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):
* 1/18/08 Ultimate Colon Cleanse (30 day program)

Research:
* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).
* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.

#72 SweetJade1980

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Posted 26 July 2004 - 03:10 PM

Evigrex,
I aboslutely would love a truce! Besides, I don't think I could win much with you either ; -)

Now, as for me, I've always been underwieght. Since I was 12 I was 105lbs and now that I'm 23 I'm STILL 105lbs and 5'5. The only other difference is that my waistline isn't as tiny anymore (23 inches then and 25 inches now), otherwise my stomach is as flat as a pancake. I don't even have that womanly "pouch" thing going on, lol.

When I gained weight with avandia, it was more in the butt (appreciated) and thigh area (not appreciated), otherwise, nothing else seemed to have changed. Anyway, it looks like you are "cursed" with the gift of beiing too thin and acneic too. There's actually a thread on Healthboards debating the possibilities of why that is. Unfortunately, not everything is as "cut & dry" as we'd like it be =/

Take care
These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):
* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)
* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002
* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)
* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):
* 1/18/08 Ultimate Colon Cleanse (30 day program)

Research:
* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).
* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.

#73 evigrex

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Posted 28 July 2004 - 03:41 PM

Yeah, being skinny sucks sad.gif

I'll be doing something about it in the coming months, so this is something that interests me.

One more question: did you notice a signifigant disruption in your libido? I usually have a very high libido (I know nobody wants to hear about this stuff...heh...) and I kinda like it that way. Don't want to mess with an awful lot - what was your experience with avandia in that regard? Thanks
before you judge me take a look at you
can't you find something better to do
point the finger, slow to understand
arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

- Metallica, "holier than thou"

#74 SweetJade1980

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Posted 29 July 2004 - 02:22 PM

Evigrex

Hmm, ever considered the possibility that MAYBE you weren't meant to have such a high libido? Remember our whole "too much androgens" debate? That's something I'm trying to find out about males (and females) if those with too much androgens may also have a very high libido. I know those that took even small doses of Spiro 25mg, also noted that a decrease in libido was a side effect, but they said it wasn't a big deal. Some said that they could look at girl and do or don't, it didn't really matter. Other said, on higher doses, that they could look at a girl and feel nothing (we don't want that). One of these guys (100mg PLUS estrogen..sigh), said that they should give this to sex offenders ;-)

Anway, I'm just messing with you about that. You should have whatever libido level that makes ya happy. I know there's herbs and homeopathic supplements that can boost your libido despite you being on Spiro, etc. I found that out as a side effect of using one homeopathic formula for acne. ;-) Yet since you are already clear from Accutane that's not a concern.

As for Avandia, well it could affect one's libido as a natural side effect of the drug, or because it will reduce your testosterone level. There's been a couple of studies that shows this in males and females, and one study said that it does so specifically because it increased your SHBG (made your insulin use more effective so you needed less insulin). Which we know will bind Free Testosterone, but that doesn't mean it will affect your Total Testosterone from being within it's normal range.

Me personally, I didn't notice a difference. I was on 2mg of Avandia and 150mg of Spiro at the same time, so I couldn't tell you. I know that when I stopped the Avandia, I still didn't notice a difference. Yet when I stopped the spiro, I did notice a difference. Not a huge difference IMO, but I'm a female and am more interested in other aspects, so having high libido isn't a big deal to me, LOL

So, I guess you can always try avandia and see what happens. If it does affect you and it's too much of a change, you can stop.

Take care
These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):
* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)
* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002
* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)
* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):
* 1/18/08 Ultimate Colon Cleanse (30 day program)

Research:
* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).
* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.

#75 evigrex

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Posted 30 July 2004 - 04:20 PM

Hey! I am totally NOT that way! I am a true gentleman and never objectify women unless I see a cute one and instead look to their personality, wit, and intelligence! and a fat bank account

I'm only occassionally an ape that runs around beating my chest and kidnapping other guys girlfriends sad.gif

Thanks for the info though, i'll keep that in mind!
before you judge me take a look at you
can't you find something better to do
point the finger, slow to understand
arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

- Metallica, "holier than thou"

#76 cynic

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Posted 30 July 2004 - 04:29 PM

..This thread is still going (!)?

:o wink.gif

#77 Catreena

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Posted 17 August 2004 - 10:23 AM

Hi, new here,

I was just investigating Accutane and how it effects your hormones and fell into this message board. I know this post is old but I wanted to put in some info from me, I am 16, took accutane 5 month regimin when I was 14-15. No one may ever read this but it is interesting to me and this is why I am reading all I can about it. Before I took accutane I had slight weight problem maybe 10-15 pounds over, very difficult to lose. I started my periods very young at 10 years old, the were heavy and painful. Very cystic acne. While I was on accutane I lost the weight with no problem, stopped having periods completely, and my acne cleared up to nothing at all. My lipids and all that improved very much. Only one thing bothered my DR., my fasting blood glucose was occasionally high. So now I have been off of the accutane over a year, I have gained the weight back and am having trouble getting it off, my acne is back (taking Keflex for it and some better but not great) Not sure about my lipids and all but I figure they are not as good as when on Accutane. My mom checked my blood sugar the other day and it was 301, 3 hours after eating. We have been keeping track of it and it has been occasionally high/ sometimes normal. My belief is that Accutane does affect your hormones. I think I am insulin resistant related and that the Accutane contolled it for the time I was on it. All the tests results in the world will not convince me otherwise. I am now starting a low carb diet because of my high blood sugar. I think the increase in insulin to try to control your blood sugar causes an in crease in androgens which in turn causes all my other symptoms. I have not been tested for PCOS but I think that will be the next thing. My first response was to get back on Accutane but my Dr. disagrees, hence the Keflex, and I know that I can't take Accutane forever to control my symptoms but it sure did make my life easier. It would be nice if they could create a form of it to control my symptoms that I could take foerever without the dryness side effects especially to my hair. Maybe that will be in the future but for now I will read and follow my diet until something better comes along. Thanks for listening . Catreena

#78 SteveBrown

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Posted 19 August 2004 - 08:47 PM

Anyone who thinks diet has no effect on the health of your skin should consider the following experiment. Eat lots of sugary food, and see what happens. I know for a fact, that will give me zits. If sugar doesn't give you zits, consider yourself very fortunate.


#79 gymrat7676

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Posted 20 August 2004 - 11:07 PM

I just want to say that i do agree that accutane affects hormones- when i got off it i had major night sweats for a while around the time of my period
MY ROUTINE

AM
1) wash with paula's choice normal to oily cleanser
2) Napca mist from twinlab or the one from nuskin and spray many times to get a good layer of moisture.
3)Avalon organics revitalizing eye gel
4)Cory Minerals (I've found that the secret to cory is to use ur brush to really swirl it around to grind the powder down even finer than it is and then to tap off the excess and start off with thin layers and build.) i also will take a concealer brush and dab it on certain areas that i need to cover up more thickly and then use a bronzer with a big bronzer brush to blend. ( i use estee lauder bronze goddess). i use bronzer all over and this seems to even out everything.
5)Aquaphor for lips.

PM
1)Same PC N/O
2b)some nights I mask with aspirin mixed with milk of magnesia and nuetrogena clear pore cleanser mask in nose and chin area - to make mask i use a small spray bottle with distilled water that i always keep in my bathroom and i take about 8 aspirin in the palm of my hand and spray and mush with my fingers until it is a thick paste. i then add a drop of MOM and put a small amount of neut. clear pore cleanser mask. don't use mask every night.
3)Aubrey organics Vegecol toner
4)Spot treat w/ prosacea gel
5)same on eyes and lips as AM