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Diet-Acne Study

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The acne equation consits of - Sebum overproduction, Cell shedding, Bacteria = clogged pores inflamed by bacteria. Diet has no significant effect on any part of this equation.

These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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I strongly disagree Sensitivities/allergies to food/how one is affected by environmental causes isn't cut and dry as in, for example six year olds don't have acne even if they ate junk. Diet can affect hormones in the body which IN TURN could effect or cause acne. "If diet caused acne six year olds would have it" is not a strong argument.

Not everyone who eats a lot is fat..i eat more than some really big guys and I'm very slim. I could eat ice cream all day and still be very thin. BUT, that doesn't mean somone who's suscptible to being fat can't lose weight. Also, one type of food will cause one person to gain weight while another will lose weight on it. Most people don't know what's healthy for them in terms of diet. Diet definitely afected my skin because i have the blood tests showing affected hormone levels due to diet to prove it.

if you say diet can't affect skin, then you also must believe foods don't cause allergic skin reactions, cholesterol is not affected by food, blah blah blah. the skin is an organ like any other, it really makes MUCH LESS SENSE that one would conclude diet has no effect. accutane is derived from vitamin a, also if a person doesn't get enough vit. c they get scurvy, or not enuf a, blindness which can be treated by diet. the same can and IS true for acne. While some may coose to eat candy and cake and bitch about their pimples while they apply more cream, I'll gladly nix the dairy and eat my paleo diet without so much as a tiny pimple cropping up for months and months.


The warmth of the sun reminds her of the day-she remembers the day when things were going her way-only memories remain-of the way she used to be-She stays home every night and exaggerates her past..all the old photographs were never thrown away-what made her cry-she'll never go back again-the way she used to be


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well said chloe!

diet does affect acne, along with every other aspect of our health.

its just a question of how and to what extent.

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Chloe & Flipside,

LOL, indeed some people's arguments for why there is not connection makes absolutely zero sense. Most of them like to throw back to us that it's a placebo effect, but how can there be an effect if you never altered your diet or took a specific medication with the hopes of thinking it would clear you?

Furthermore, perhaps a better point than that is, how we've also noticed improvements in other problems we have that some people may not have associated with an allergy, intolerance, chemical sensitivity, or hormonal symptom. Now how is that a placebo effect?

Not only did it improve my skin by 99%, but it slightly improved my vision, and I felt less bloated & tired after eating. Not to mention, my pores shrank, produced less oil, and the biggest one of all was that it eliminated my horrible crying on the floor menstrual cramps!!!! That was the last thing I was thinking of it doing for me and I tried to find that Insulin connection with it and prostaglandins, but I didn't have much luck. Then a few weeks ago, I was reading something on another board, and bam, I found the connection. I tell you for that alone, I would stay on this diet forever ;-)

Take care


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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hi sweetjade,

im just curious, what type of diet are you on? i assume its low carb with lots of fruits and veggies.

i stopped drinking milk and ive mostly been eating lots of fruits and veggies and nuts. sometimes i dip wheat bread in olive oil or avocado oil.

im a little worried about getting enough protein. i only eat meat (fish or chicken) a few times per week. most of my other protein comes from peanut butter (the healthy kind)

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before you judge me take a look at you

can't you find something better to do

point the finger, slow to understand

arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

- Metallica, "holier than thou"


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Reading a few studies, it seems that accutane may increase a dht derivative in females - not males. All the studies i've seen (and bloodwork i've seen myself) shows no change in FAI in males taking accutane. A DHT "inhibitor" would cause a drastic *increase* in testosterone and E2 due to the inability of testosterone to convert to DHT via the 5AR enzyme. This is definitely not the case with accutane.

Either way, calling accutane a DHT inhibitor is outright wrong, because there are too many studies demonstrating no change in hormone production by the pituitary in males. It does inhibit receptor affinity for androgens in the skin, but that is far different than being a full blown dht inhibitor like finasteride or dutasteride.


before you judge me take a look at you

can't you find something better to do

point the finger, slow to understand

arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

- Metallica, "holier than thou"


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Evigrex,

Accutane, 13-Cis Retinoic Acid, and Isotretinion are all the same things.

LOL, I know that a body building site isn't the most accurate source, but majority of that information was correct, and of course who knows better about the effects of testosterone then they...or the hormonally imbalanced, like myself.

If you don't want to believe those studies, so be it, but males and females are capable of being hyperandrogenic. Usually there is a decrese in SHBG as a result of having too much androgens; they are each others antagonist. A decrease in SHBG is also considered to be a greater marker for Insulin Resistance, than IGF-1 (something accutane also inhibits).

Furthermore, certain adrenal abnormalities resulting in production of too much or too little cortisol, have also lead to an overproduction of male steriod hormones. This process works similarly along the lines of how Insulin Resistance Syndrome is thought to produce excess androgens....overcompensation or rather, overstimulation. See NCCAH / LOCAH, Cushings, Hypercortisolism, etc

Yes, I too found some studies that showed a change over time in most or all male steriod hormone levels and some studies said "there was no change". These numbers also varied depending on not just gender but wether the subjects were obese, which is why most recent studies are more preferred. However there were recent studies that showed that DHT production was affected in both males and females in the skin or other target tissues (as is where most DHT is produced, not in the blood stream). Also, since various DHT Inhibitor, Anti-Androgen, Insulin Sensitizing medications, etc. don't affect the same pathways, I would expect to see a variance here as well. I''ve never been the one to argue about that with you.

The Pituary gland does not produce nor directly affect enzyme production, the LIVER, pancreas, and other digestive organs do. Therefore, no I wouldn't expect to see a change in 5 Alpha Reductase or any other androgenic enzyme as the liver produces these. The liver also produces 13-cis retinoic acid via a CYP450 enzyme, but this pathway can be defective as well.

Now, as for the Pituitary gland:

The anterior pituitary secretes four tropic hormones and two regular hormones  

Here are the hormones, starting with the tropic hormones, and finishing with the regular ones:

1. TSH-- thyroid stimulating hormoneThis hormone influences thyroid gland secretion of hormones.

2. ACTH-- adrenocorticotropic hormoneDo you see the "tropic" in its name?  Good!  It works on the adrenal cortex (adrenocortico-).

3. LH-- luteinizing hormone – [or ISCH stimulates testosterone production]

4. FSH-- follicle stimulating hormone – [stimulates progesterone & estrogen production]

These last two together are often termed "gonadotropins" because they exert a tropic hormone effect on the gonads, influencing gonadal secretion of sex hormones.

5. PRL-- prolactin

6. GH-- growth hormone [stimulates IGF-1 production in the liver]

The functions of the last two merit a bit more description.  PRL is pretty straightforward in females, promoting milk production by the mammary glands.  In males, PRL has the function of actually decreasing LH secretion.  Therefore, in males, PRL actually acts like a tropic hormone, more specifically as an inhibitory tropic hormone.   

GH stimulates cells to grow in size, speed up their mitotic cycle (dividing faster), increases protein synthesis, and more.  These functions of GH lead to growth!  Because its effects are so dramatic, problems in GH secretion are also dramatic.  For example, dwarfism and acromegaly are both cases of altered GH secretion.  Take a look at your book and the PowerPoint presentation for more on this.

http://distance.stcc.edu/AandP/AP/AP2pages...ne/hypothal.htm


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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hi sweetjade,

im just curious, what type of diet are you on?  i assume its low carb with lots of fruits and veggies.

i stopped drinking milk and ive mostly been eating lots of fruits and veggies and nuts.  sometimes i dip wheat bread in olive oil or avocado oil.

im a little worried about getting enough protein.  i only eat meat (fish or chicken) a few times per week.  most of my other protein comes from peanut butter (the healthy kind)


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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Hey, in this months glamour magazine, a doctor is quoted as saying that eating too many refined carbs CAUSES ACNE:::::::there go the arguments for people waiting with baited breath for a prescious med figure to say diet can cause acne:

Hey SweetJade:

yeah, what a lot of people see as a strict diet is just a diet that is natural and devoid of crap..damn, it's easier to eat healthy in poor rural countries than the US!!!!! I eat lots of bananas, they seem not to affect my skin...but upping the veggie intake, whoa does that make a diff obviously cause you're upping the vitamins you're eating. a lot of veggies contain plenty of Vit. C>people seem to only think fruits are the best source of that.....ANYWAY, are you using any topicals? Witch hazel is fantastic....these changes have literally made my pores look like they've disappeared in some places! and the best part, you don't have to deal with flakiness and red skin from too much topical. the changes are so apparent sometimes I run over and over to a mirror checking under lights that shine DOWN (the worst angle, unless your a six year old haha) and yup diet did ALL that in a few weeks. Woo woo : )

Also, Corn is a grain, I actually don't feel too great when i eat it even tho it doesn't make me break out. have you tried buckwheat? that tastes pretty good. And are you taking supplements?I take selenium and coQ10 (anti oxidants)


The warmth of the sun reminds her of the day-she remembers the day when things were going her way-only memories remain-of the way she used to be-She stays home every night and exaggerates her past..all the old photographs were never thrown away-what made her cry-she'll never go back again-the way she used to be


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heres a database i found which has all the nutrient measurments for just about any food:

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

this is an article about different types of sugars. it says that sucrose (white table sugar) is the main bad guy because "It demands the production of insulin by our pancreas, causes significant fluctuation in blood-sugar levels, and robs nutrients from various stores in our bodies in order to be digested."

http://www.afpafitness.com/articles/CutSugar.html

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Evigrex,

Accutane, 13-Cis Retinoic Acid, and Isotretinion are all the same things. 

LOL, I know that a body building site isn't the most accurate source, but majority of that information was correct, and of course who knows better about the effects of testosterone then they...or the hormonally imbalanced, like myself.

If you don't want to believe those studies, so be it, but males and females are capable of being hyperandrogenic.  Usually there is a decrese in SHBG as a result of having too much androgens; they are each others antagonist.  A decrease in SHBG is also considered to be a greater marker for Insulin Resistance, than IGF-1 (something accutane also inhibits).

Furthermore, certain adrenal abnormalities resulting in production of too much or too little cortisol, have also lead to an overproduction of male steriod hormones. This process works similarly along the lines of how Insulin Resistance Syndrome is thought to produce excess androgens....overcompensation or rather, overstimulation. See NCCAH / LOCAH, Cushings, Hypercortisolism, etc

Yes, I too found some studies that showed a change over time in most or all male steriod hormone levels and some studies said "there was no change".  These numbers also varied depending on not just gender but wether the subjects were obese, which is why most recent studies are more preferred. However there were recent studies that showed that DHT production was affected in both males and females in the skin or other target tissues (as is where most DHT is produced, not in the blood stream). Also, since various DHT Inhibitor, Anti-Androgen, Insulin Sensitizing medications, etc. don't affect the same pathways, I would expect to see a variance here as well. I''ve never been the one to argue about that with you.

The Pituary gland does not produce nor directly affect enzyme production, the LIVER, pancreas, and other digestive organs do.  Therefore, no I wouldn't expect to see a change in 5 Alpha Reductase or any other androgenic enzyme as the liver produces these.  The liver also produces 13-cis retinoic acid via a CYP450 enzyme, but this pathway can be defective as well.

Now, as for the Pituitary gland:

The anterior pituitary secretes four tropic hormones and two regular hormones  

Here are the hormones, starting with the tropic hormones, and finishing with the regular ones:

1. TSH-- thyroid stimulating hormoneThis hormone influences thyroid gland secretion of hormones.

2. ACTH-- adrenocorticotropic hormoneDo you see the "tropic" in its name?  Good!  It works on the adrenal cortex (adrenocortico-).

3. LH-- luteinizing hormone – [or ISCH stimulates testosterone production]

4. FSH-- follicle stimulating hormone – [stimulates progesterone & estrogen production]

These last two together are often termed "gonadotropins" because they exert a tropic hormone effect on the gonads, influencing gonadal secretion of sex hormones.

5. PRL-- prolactin

6. GH-- growth hormone [stimulates IGF-1 production in the liver]

The functions of the last two merit a bit more description.  PRL is pretty straightforward in females, promoting milk production by the mammary glands.  In males, PRL has the function of actually decreasing LH secretion.  Therefore, in males, PRL actually acts like a tropic hormone, more specifically as an inhibitory tropic hormone.   

GH stimulates cells to grow in size, speed up their mitotic cycle (dividing faster), increases protein synthesis, and more.  These functions of GH lead to growth!  Because its effects are so dramatic, problems in GH secretion are also dramatic.  For example, dwarfism and acromegaly are both cases of altered GH secretion.  Take a look at your book and the PowerPoint presentation for more on this.

http://distance.stcc.edu/AandP/AP/AP2pages...ne/hypothal.htm

However, the pituitary gland can indirectly affect enzyme production through negative feedback inhibition as well as when it's tropic hormones are released to act upon the ovaries, testes, or adrenal glands in order to produce steriod hormones, etc.

HTH


before you judge me take a look at you

can't you find something better to do

point the finger, slow to understand

arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

- Metallica, "holier than thou"


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I just thought of something else. Accutane *causes* insulin resistance during therapy which will go away after cessation....since accutane causes insulin resistance, why isn't androgen production going up signifigantly? Interesting quesiton I think smile.gif


before you judge me take a look at you

can't you find something better to do

point the finger, slow to understand

arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

- Metallica, "holier than thou"


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Evigrex,

Yup I noticed that accutane causes insulin resistance 2 years ago too. It is interesting huh, and someone pointed out to me that maybe that is why some people experience an initial breakout. ;-) What do you think?

Regardless though, just as some antibiotics can increase DHT production (minocycline for example), yet still reduces inflammation, thus overriding the effect of increased DHT. I guess in accutane's case it uses IGF-1 inhibition and it's DHT Inhibitiing abilities to override the fact that it produces a few other characteristics of Insulin Resistance such as, higher triglyceride levels.

Accutane, 13-Cis Retinoic Acid, and Isotretinion are all the same things.

13-cis-RA was a chemically made derivative of RA was my understanding... I may be wrong


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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Evigex,

Incidentally, I used an Insulin Sensitizing drug to boost my levels of SHBG in order to fight my high free androgen levels. BC did the same thing, but avandia did it better.

MALES:

Metabolism. 2003 Feb;52(2):230-2.  Related Articles, Links 

 

Reduced production rates of testosterone and dihydrotestosterone in healthy men treated with rosiglitazone.

Vierhapper H, Nowotny P, Waldhausl W.

Division of Endocrinology and Metabolism, Department of Internal Medicine III, University of Vienna, Vienna, Austria.

The effect of the thiazolidinedione, rosiglitazone (8 mg/d for 7 days), on the production rates of testosterone (T), dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and cortisol (F) was studied in healthy men (n = 10) using the stable isotope dilution technique and mass spectrometry. Treatment with rosiglitazone resulted in a decrease in the production rates of T from, basal, 318 +/- 62 microg/h to 272 +/- 72 microg/h (P <.05). Production rates of DHT fell from, basal, 21 +/- 6 microg/h to 17 +/- 5 microg/h (P <.05). Hence, the ratio calcuated from the production rates of T and DHT was unchanged (basal, 17 +/- 7; rosiglitazone, 17 +/- 3). Production rates of cortisol were unchanged (basal, 577 +/- 136 microg/h; rosiglitazone, 627 +/- 141 microg/h). These results suggest that a clinically relevant dose of at least one thiazolidindione, rosiglitazone, impedes the production of testosterone in man. Copyright 2003, Elsevier Science (USA). All rights reserved

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=12601638


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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Hmm, thats interesting. I know that thiazolidinediones reduce testosterone in males, as do all anti-diabetic agents (which results in a shot libido for most people, but thats a story for another time..) but i'm not so sure the actions are so clear. Its interesting that they combined avandia with clomiphene citrate in the second study, because acne is a large complaint for both males and females taking clomiphene. Clomiphene raises total testosterone *signifigantly* in men with increasing SHBG during use, and shbg usually returns to normal afterwards...i'm not so sure why they would include clomiphene in their drug stack. But then again i'm not a woman and I don't have PCOS, maybe you can shed light on that

As far as adrenal hyperactivity....you spent most of that post talking about androgens and what not and all of a sudden, out of the blue post a study about adrenal hyperactivity. Yes, I know that adrenal hyperactivity may increase acne in some but not all individuals. And yes, the amount of androgens produced by the adrenal gland is *minimal* compared to the testes (which produces testosterone, testosterone is converted into more target hormones..) There are many more factors into why hyperactivity can cause acne, such as increased T4>T3 conversion (which increases sebum production..) increased cortisol (increased stress) and increased epinephrine and norepinephrine production (both of which increase sebum production.)

By the way did you experience any sort of weight gain, edema, or signifigant loss of libido while taking avandia - avandia has been of interest to me since it can potentially enhance amino acid uptake to muscle, but fat gain and lowered libido especially would offset that. Browining google, it seems there are tons of folks complaining about weight gain and postprandial bloat from rezulin, actos and avandia... just curious if you've had any such problems


before you judge me take a look at you

can't you find something better to do

point the finger, slow to understand

arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

- Metallica, "holier than thou"


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Evigrex,

Yup, I absolutely experienced wieght gain and I was soo happy about it. Initially I didn't know that it was a possible side effect until a year later I was browsing the PCOS boards. What I noticed was that I gained 5lbs for every 2mg I took. I took 2mg of Avandia w/Spiro for 1 year & gained 5lbs almost immediatly and then I took 4mg w/Spiro & dietary changes for 3 months & gained another 5lbs almost immediately.

I was soo happy to have wieght in "the right places", but unfortunately as soon as I stopped taking it...I lost that extra 10lbs and now I've got clothes in my closet that are a bit too big for me =( Other than that, I didn't have any other side effects and my hormone (androgens weren't balanced enough) and liver levels were normal. In fact my LDL and Triglycerides dropped BELOW ref. ranges when I was on 4mg of Avandia & Dietary Changes. I would like to think it was due to dietary changes, but as I don't have those test results (of diet only with me) I can't truly say what helped.

As for the Clomiphene, well I guess they did it to see which is the stronger drug. I've seen studies where they will combine Accutane & Testosterone vs, Testosterone in order to see which produced better results. I'd rather not go into that thing again, but I was just using it as an example ;-)

Anyway, I really don't remember what the point to this debate was all about anymore. Since this is a diet-acne study thread, wouldn't you rather just talk about that? I'm not saying that ALL acne is due to the "wrong" diet, nor am I saying that the wrong Diet will give EVERYONE acne, but for some of us, that is the case. I was just explaining it to you in regards to Insulin Resistance as that is how I know the majority of my dietary changes has helped me.

Take care

P.S. I was on Glucophage (Metaformin) for 3 months and it made me sick and bloated. Plus I would get really sick whenever I drank alcohol while under either Met or Avandia. I don't really drink anyway, but it was my 21st and 22nd B-day and my friends gave me my fav. drink only it wasn't a Virgin Pina Colada, and I got sick.


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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Was your weight gain evenly distributed or predominantly located in the abdomen? Just curious, cuz I know IR causes abdominal fat gain primarily.

I could use some weight though, i'm 6'1" and weight between 150-160 right now since I haven't been to a gym in a long time....when I get back into it I may seek pharmaceutical assistance to gain weight since I have a friend thats a doc.

Anyways.....I don't really feel like debating anymore cuz i'll never win...heh (raises white flag) :unsure: Apologies for the harshness in some of my earlier posts its usually not like me to be an a-hole like that


before you judge me take a look at you

can't you find something better to do

point the finger, slow to understand

arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

- Metallica, "holier than thou"


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OMG, Flipside I have been looking for a nutrient site like that for months now. Thank you, thank you, thank you =)


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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happy to help, sweetjade.

btw, the fatty acids are listed in chemical terms (16:1, 18:1) so you might have to do some homework to learn which is which.

and it doesn't list the different types of carbs but you probably know all that stuff anyway.

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Hey, in this months glamour magazine, a doctor is quoted as saying that eating too many refined carbs CAUSES ACNE:::::::there go the arguments for people waiting with baited breath for a prescious med figure to say diet can cause acne:

Hey SweetJade:

yeah, what a lot of people see as a strict diet is just a diet that is natural and devoid of crap..damn, it's easier to eat healthy in poor rural countries than the US!!!!! I eat lots of bananas, they seem not to affect my skin...but upping the veggie intake, whoa does that make a diff obviously cause you're upping the vitamins you're eating. a lot of veggies contain plenty of Vit. C>people seem to only think fruits are the best source of that.....ANYWAY, are you using any topicals? Witch hazel is fantastic....these changes have literally made my pores look like they've disappeared in some places! and the best part, you don't have to deal with flakiness and red skin from too much topical.  the changes are so apparent sometimes I run over and over to a mirror checking under lights that shine DOWN (the worst angle, unless your a six year old haha) and yup diet did ALL that in a few weeks. Woo woo : )

Also, Corn is a grain, I actually don't feel too great when i eat it even tho it doesn't make me break out. have you tried buckwheat? that tastes pretty good.  And are you taking supplements?I take selenium and coQ10 (anti oxidants)


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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Evigrex,

I aboslutely would love a truce! Besides, I don't think I could win much with you either ; -)

Now, as for me, I've always been underwieght. Since I was 12 I was 105lbs and now that I'm 23 I'm STILL 105lbs and 5'5. The only other difference is that my waistline isn't as tiny anymore (23 inches then and 25 inches now), otherwise my stomach is as flat as a pancake. I don't even have that womanly "pouch" thing going on, lol.

When I gained weight with avandia, it was more in the butt (appreciated) and thigh area (not appreciated), otherwise, nothing else seemed to have changed. Anyway, it looks like you are "cursed" with the gift of beiing too thin and acneic too. There's actually a thread on Healthboards debating the possibilities of why that is. Unfortunately, not everything is as "cut & dry" as we'd like it be =/

Take care


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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Yeah, being skinny sucks sad.gif

I'll be doing something about it in the coming months, so this is something that interests me.

One more question: did you notice a signifigant disruption in your libido? I usually have a very high libido (I know nobody wants to hear about this stuff...heh...) and I kinda like it that way. Don't want to mess with an awful lot - what was your experience with avandia in that regard? Thanks


before you judge me take a look at you

can't you find something better to do

point the finger, slow to understand

arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

- Metallica, "holier than thou"


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Evigrex

Hmm, ever considered the possibility that MAYBE you weren't meant to have such a high libido? Remember our whole "too much androgens" debate? That's something I'm trying to find out about males (and females) if those with too much androgens may also have a very high libido. I know those that took even small doses of Spiro 25mg, also noted that a decrease in libido was a side effect, but they said it wasn't a big deal. Some said that they could look at girl and do or don't, it didn't really matter. Other said, on higher doses, that they could look at a girl and feel nothing (we don't want that). One of these guys (100mg PLUS estrogen..sigh), said that they should give this to sex offenders ;-)

Anway, I'm just messing with you about that. You should have whatever libido level that makes ya happy. I know there's herbs and homeopathic supplements that can boost your libido despite you being on Spiro, etc. I found that out as a side effect of using one homeopathic formula for acne. ;-) Yet since you are already clear from Accutane that's not a concern.

As for Avandia, well it could affect one's libido as a natural side effect of the drug, or because it will reduce your testosterone level. There's been a couple of studies that shows this in males and females, and one study said that it does so specifically because it increased your SHBG (made your insulin use more effective so you needed less insulin). Which we know will bind Free Testosterone, but that doesn't mean it will affect your Total Testosterone from being within it's normal range.

Me personally, I didn't notice a difference. I was on 2mg of Avandia and 150mg of Spiro at the same time, so I couldn't tell you. I know that when I stopped the Avandia, I still didn't notice a difference. Yet when I stopped the spiro, I did notice a difference. Not a huge difference IMO, but I'm a female and am more interested in other aspects, so having high libido isn't a big deal to me, LOL

So, I guess you can always try avandia and see what happens. If it does affect you and it's too much of a change, you can stop.

Take care


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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Hey! I am totally NOT that way! I am a true gentleman and never objectify women unless I see a cute one and instead look to their personality, wit, and intelligence! and a fat bank account

I'm only occassionally an ape that runs around beating my chest and kidnapping other guys girlfriends sad.gif

Thanks for the info though, i'll keep that in mind!


before you judge me take a look at you

can't you find something better to do

point the finger, slow to understand

arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

- Metallica, "holier than thou"


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