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Diet-Acne Study

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#1 flipside

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 01:26 AM

if you think diet effects your acne, you should check this out.

if you think diet does not effect acne in any way shape or form, you should definately check this out.

article about a recent study, written in laymans terms--
http://www.northfort...update_acne.htm

this is the study. its worth a skim if you have the time. theres a lot of technical info but its not too bad--
http://www.thepaleod...ne vulgaris.pdf

this is the good part. the following files contain an article with peer reviews of the study and other acne-diet studies. theres a letter that points out where the studies falls short. theres also a letter that gives us patients hope that modern dermatology is beginning to look closer at diet and acne. and toward the end theres an insightful letter by the studys primary author.
http://www.thepaleod.....0Letter 1.pdf
http://www.thepaleod.....0Letter 2.pdf
http://www.thepaleod.....0Letter 3.pdf

the most revealing thing i learned was that the idea of diet not effecting acne is based on two 30 yr old studies that were poorly controlled and highly flawed. i bet dermatologist dont learn that in school.

btw, you might need to close some browser windows if the pdf files wont load.

#2 Ryan Valmont

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 10:58 AM

No matter HOW many times they say diet has nothing to do with acne i'll NEVER believe it!!.

Because i've done my own research and tests and now i know for a fact diet has SOMETHING to do with acne.

When you have eaten something for years...then give it up...and all of a sudden your face goes from 85% clear to %95 YOU KNOW diet has SOMETHING to do with it.
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#3 Illuminati

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 11:06 AM

I agree. It really pisses me off when close-minded people, incuding derms, say that diet has absolutely nothing to do with acne. But, the thing that really gets me is that they say it with such conviction :liar: . They think that just because they read out of a textbook that diet has nothing to do with acne, that it must be absolutely true. I think everyone should know that people are different, which means that certain things cause the formation of acne. Some people aren't affected by diet, sun, smoking, and drinking. But, other people know that eating certain foods like dairy products, bread, and brownies (seasoned with the ganja :dance: ) give them acne.

#4 24 Hour Revenge Therapy

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 11:11 AM

QUOTE
When you have eaten something for years...then give it up...and all of a sudden your face goes from 85% clear to %95 YOU KNOW diet has SOMETHING to do with it.


Fuck yeah. I totally know what you mean. For me, it was milk. Then all dairy was eliminated, and it helped me even more. I am almost there. I can practically taste it.
President Bush is a fucking rubber.

#5 evigrex

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 12:38 PM

I am of the camp that believes that diet has little, if anything, to do with acne. What types of foods cause acne exactly? Insulinogenic foods? Well cross that b/c every diabetic in the world would be breaking out like crazy. Dairy? Meats? Because they have hormones? Well, hormones are not bioavailable AT ALL in the digestive tract - which is why exogenous hormones are always injected. Someone give me an explanation of what foods cause acne and why...and don't refer me to that nut Dr. Perricone

I do believe that eating properly will speed skin turnover and healing, but as we all know...skin turnover and sebum production are two DIFFERENT things
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#6 cynic

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 01:15 PM

evigrex:

This is what I think...

Some people can eat all they want, whatever they want, and NEVER break out with acne.

Some people, who have acne, find certain things trigger it.

It's exactly the same as the stories you hear of people smoking 50 cigarettes a day and never getting ill from it, and the people who have perhaps 10 a week or less and contract lung cancer.

Everybody's different, and I don't believe everybody's acne-prone. It's simple really.

#7 evigrex

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 04:56 PM

Okay then. Explain the mechanism by which foods can cause an increase in sebum production - I don't see a link at all. Nor have I seen a link in myself, as hard as i've tried

Someone else mentioned that being in an insulinogenic state can increaseandrogen levels, but I doubt thats the case. In all actuality, most diabetics (whose chronic
hyperinulinonemia led to diabetes) suffer from erectile disfunction and impotence - earlier in life than their healthy counterparts. How would this be explained if their hyperinsulinemia could potentially cause hyperandrogenism? Its a load of crap if you ask me
before you judge me take a look at you
can't you find something better to do
point the finger, slow to understand
arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

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#8 evigrex

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 04:59 PM

QUOTE(cynic @ Jul 19 2004, 12:02 PM)
evigrex:

This is what I think...

Some people can eat all they want, whatever they want, and NEVER break out with acne.

Some people, who have acne, find certain things trigger it.

It's exactly the same as the stories you hear of people smoking 50 cigarettes a day and never getting ill from it, and the people who have perhaps 10 a week or less and contract lung cancer.

Everybody's different, and I don't believe everybody's acne-prone. It's simple really.

Oh, and, the effects of nicotine on the endocrine, pitutary and cardiovascular systems are well documented. So those that get ill...the cause is easily explained.

But DIET AND ACNE? Whats the link. You can't just say it causes acne "just because"...someone explain how.
before you judge me take a look at you
can't you find something better to do
point the finger, slow to understand
arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

- Metallica, "holier than thou"

#9 Makaveli

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 06:31 PM

I don't see that much of a link, although i'm experimenting as we speak.. Is it realy different for everyone? People always say this, but I think it's more the same for the vast majority, and different for a small percentage of people with acne. I say this because we use the same things to try to get clear, such as accutane, and BP.. so I think we have more similarities than differences.. Diet may effect acne in some people, don't get me wrong, but before giving up a lot of the foods that you love, make sure that it effects your acne.. Daily/Weekly tests aren't conclusive enough.. Try changing diets on a monthly basis and see if there's any difference, that's the only advice I can really give

#10 Chloe646

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 06:46 PM

Evigrex, cynic made a very excellent point.....even with nicotine, etc...there are several factors that come into play, environmental, genetic, food triggers. Alcohol might ruin one person'd liver while another is far less affected...however no one goes around saying alcohol has no affect.


They used to also say smoking was okay and docs endorsed this idea, now we know otherwise obviously. I'll say how it affects it>>>with soy>it affects thyroid hormones (numerous studies available on this) which in turn are responsible for metabolism and thyroid conditions affect the skin. As for an insulin surge, that's linked to more oil/acne production. Some foods can be allerhenic/irritating which could cause a breakout because they're poorly digested.

Diet affects every system of the body, it would be more sensible to conclude it affects skin just the studies aren't very good or there aren't enough of them rather than say okay, no studies no link. there are instances of twins where one comes down with a "genetic" illness while the other does not, so some sort of environmental factor/factors had to be responsible....

ANYWAY, there IS a popular studu that was done recently on a group of island people, some indigenous group with no acne at all>>>they ate a "western diet" and bam, got acne. I for one am affcted by diet in terms of acne>>>I rarely use any topicals at all and a dietary change alone cleared my pores within a few weeks. people are affected to varying degrees and can have striking similarities so it's worth a shot to try the diet link, there's really nothing to lose to try it.
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#11 ann_a_bell

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 09:05 PM

QUOTE(evigrex @ Jul 19 2004, 06:43 PM)
Okay then.  Explain the mechanism by which foods can cause an increase in sebum production - I don't see a link at all.  Nor have I seen a link in myself, as hard as i've tried

Someone else mentioned that being in an insulinogenic state can increaseandrogen levels, but I doubt thats the case.  In all actuality, most diabetics (whose chronic
hyperinulinonemia led to diabetes) suffer from erectile disfunction and impotence - earlier in life than their healthy counterparts.  How would this be explained if their hyperinsulinemia could potentially cause hyperandrogenism?  Its a load of crap if you ask me

I read somewhere that cholesterol is what produces the sebum, hence more cholesterol, more oil production perhaps. You would have to do the research on your own though. I cut a lot of sugar and cholesterol out of my diet and it seems to help keep the small breakouts that I have fewer and futher between. I cheat though, it's hard to give up my soda :wall: !!!!
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#12 edenfield

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 09:25 PM

it has to do essentially with DHT conversion.

http://www.absolutea...topic.php?t=569

read up before you start yabbering, both sides tongue.gif
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#13 SweetJade1980

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 09:27 PM

Yup, I'm with Chloe in that just because you haven't seen plenty of diet & acne specific studies, doesn't mean there isn't a connection. There's so many ideas I have now as to how food or supplements play a role in hormonal balance, but it took a while to think "outside of the box" and learn to look at how they play around with your system in other ways in order to achieve hormonal balance or imbalance as is the case for some/most of us. Unfortunately some of my ideas I have no backing for, as such you won't hear any mention of them here, as the controlled clinical studies haven't been done yet (oh goody maybe I'll get to do one in the future). Meanwhile, there's plenty of other studies that continue to show how effective foods are at helping or hindering our hormonal system.

Now, there's two types of Diabetics, Type I that requires Insulin and Type II that doesn't. Now Type II Diabetics are around 90% of ALL diabetics, and is usually a (environmental) dietary/lifestyle based disease. Glucose doesn't cause acne, therefore a Type I probably won't have much acne, if any at all as I've heard from some people around here. Yet Glucose is what calls Insulin out to play. Insulin is what calls IGF-1 out to come round it back up. These two hormones love to affect the initiation of puberty (temporary state of insulin resistance), pregnancy, hormonal balance, metabolism, growth (overgrowth or cancerous), etc.

*Type II Diabetics are usually thought of as Hypoglycemic, meaning they don't have enough glucose in their blood because all of that Insulin (hyperinsulinemia) has forced the glucose into liver, muscle, and fat cells. Insulin Resistance can occur here because they cells aren’t accepting anymore sugar, yet the Insulin is still trying to force more sugar into these cells.

*Type IIs may also be Hyperglycemic, meaning they have too much glucose in their blood and this is thought of as Insulin Resistance as well because in this case the Insulin is responding to the surge of sugars, but the cells aren't recognizing the Insulin and therefore aren't letting the glucose in.

*Another thing that can happen is that excess (bad) fat can compete with entrance into your cells and if more fat enters then glucose, again you will have more insulin in your blood stream trying to force that glucose to enter already full cells.

Of course, as evigrex mentioned, eventually if the excess production of insulin continues loooong enough your pancreatic beta cells can "give up" and stop producing insulin and then you can become a Type I Diabetic. Again, this is why I really wish more of you were able to see an endocrinologist, as they don’t deal with just hormonal imbalances, but also metabolic and diabetic disorders, to discover what area is contributing to your acne. For those of you that don’t, this is why you can’t just take drugs or supplements labeled for diabetics (or adrenal disorders), without ensuring you are taking the ones that are specific for your type of Diabetes, Insulin Resistance, or other imbalance. If you take the wrong ones, you may achieve no results, make your acne worse, or you could make yourself sick.

The other way that food plays a role here, outside of allergies and intolerances, is that well, food (Fat, Sugar, & Protein) are the building blocks of the human body. So if you feed your body crappy building materials, you may end up with a rather poor functioning body on some level. There's talk of consuming hydrogenated, Partially hydrogenated & Trans fats which our bodies use not just for hormone production, but prostaglandin (body's hormone balancer) and insulin production which will produce abnormal insulin proteins. If that's true, maybe that's another reason our cells aren't responding to Insulin as some of it is defective.

Not to menton, there are foods containing proteins or nutrients that act as hormone mimickers, in this case IGF-1 and Insuln Mimickers. Where upon they will enter our blood stream and will interact by perhaps binding to insulin cell receptors allowing glucose to enter, meanwhile our pancreas has already realeased insulin to do this job, but the job has already been done, thus leaving Insulin free reign in boosting our steriod hormone production, particularly in favor of more androgens. Go ahead and ask any body builder, they should already know this and eat in fact to boost their testosterone, thus muscle growth. http://ironmagazine.com/article80.html

Now, r-ALA and Cinnamon Extract are Insulin Mimickers as are Gluten and Lectins. I haven't heard any compliants about r-ALA, only raves, but I know some people loved Cinnamon Extract, while others got sick from using Cinnamon Extract as it can make you hypoglycemic. Others of us found great success by eliminating Gluten and/or select problematic lectins (casien milk protein may qualify). Lets not forget that after consuming milk either due to it's high Whey content (boosts IGF-1 production) or it's high IGF-1 content itself (thanks to rBGH), we have more IGF-1 in our blood streams (not much of a mimicking situation though). Anyway, I'm not really certain what role these hormone mimickers play, but if they are mimicking these hormones, it may account for another (among many possible theories) as to why elimination of CERTAIN foods have such a postive impact relieving our skin problems and other hormonal or poor health symptoms

HTH
These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):
* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)
* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002
* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)
* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):
* 1/18/08 Ultimate Colon Cleanse (30 day program)

Research:
* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).
* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.

#14 24 Hour Revenge Therapy

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 10:53 PM

All I know is that dairy is bad for MY skin. If anyone wants to shoot me down over it, then fuck off.
President Bush is a fucking rubber.

#15 idealist

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 12:03 AM

i'm a firm believer in the diet/acne connection. for ME anyways. i do believe everyone is differently affected by the food they eat.

about ten months ago i started a low carb (meaning low BAD/SIMPLE carb)/low dairy/low sugar diet. during these past 10 months...when i stick with the diet my skin is CLEAR. when i don't, i get pimples.

for those disbelievers, consider this explanation: the food one eats is manifested in different ways for different people. not everyone is the same. for example, some people can eat as much of whatever they want and not get fat, while others can not. some people are allergic to nuts, others are not, etc.

also consider: if high fat foods can clog arteries, why not acne. if caffeine can make you jittery, why not cause acne? if sugar can cause diabetes, why not acne?

in short, i believe you are what you eat and even if the "effects" of bad food are not manifested in outwardly physical ways, it IS doing something INSIDE of you (anything from clogging your arteries to spikes insulin).

#16 evigrex

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 12:30 AM

....
before you judge me take a look at you
can't you find something better to do
point the finger, slow to understand
arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

- Metallica, "holier than thou"

#17 evigrex

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 12:31 AM

QUOTE(24 Hour Revenge Therapy @ Jul 19 2004, 09:40 PM)
All I know is that dairy is bad for MY skin.  If anyone wants to shoot me down over it, then fuck off.

Quite the scientific explanation.
before you judge me take a look at you
can't you find something better to do
point the finger, slow to understand
arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

- Metallica, "holier than thou"

#18 SweetJade1980

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 01:55 AM

http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=15036670

http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=13129461

http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=12433724

"Higher fat intake, in particular saturated fat, was associated with lower levels of IGFBP-3. We conclude that higher energy, protein, and milk intakes were associated with higher levels of IGF-I. These associations raise the possibility that diet could affect cancer risk through influencing IGF-I level."
http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=12223429

"We examined the association of diet with insulin-like growth factors (IGF) in 344 disease-free men. Raised levels of IGF-I and/or its molar ratio with IGFBP-3 were associated with higher intakes of milk, dairy products, calcium, carbohydrate and polyunsaturated fat; lower levels with high vegetable consumption, particularly tomatoes. These patterns support the possibility that IGFs may mediate some diet-cancer associations."
http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=12771980

"Intake of dairy products was associated with a modest increase in circulating IGF-I levels, but intake of low-fat milk was associated with lower risk of colorectal cancer, particularly among individuals with high IGF-I/IGFBP-3. This subpopulation, which is at increased risk of colorectal cancer, might benefit the most from specific dietary intervention."
http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=11535708



"Hyperinsulinemic diseases of civilization: more than just Syndrome X.

Cordain L, Eades MR, Eades MD.

Department of Health and Exercise Science, Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80523, USA. cordain@cahs.colostate.edu

Compensatory hyperinsulinemia stemming from peripheral insulin resistance is a well-recognized metabolic disturbance that is at the root cause of diseases and maladies of Syndrome X (hypertension, type 2 diabetes, dyslipidemia, coronary artery disease, obesity, abnormal glucose tolerance). Abnormalities of fibrinolysis and hyperuricemia also appear to be members of the cluster of illnesses comprising Syndrome X. Insulin is a well-established growth-promoting hormone, and recent evidence indicates that hyperinsulinemia causes a shift in a number of endocrine pathways that may favor unregulated tissue growth leading to additional illnesses. Specifically, hyperinsulinemia elevates serum concentrations of free insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) and androgens, while simultaneously reducing insulin-like growth factor-binding protein 3 (IGFBP-3) and sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG). Since IGFBP-3 is a ligand for the nuclear retinoid X receptor alpha, insulin-mediated reductions in IGFBP-3 may also influence transcription of anti-proliferative genes normally activated by the body's endogenous retinoids. These endocrine shifts alter cellular proliferation and growth in a variety of tissues, the clinical course of which may promote acne, early menarche, certain epithelial cell carcinomas, increased stature, myopia, cutaneous papillomas (skin tags), acanthosis nigricans, polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) and male vertex balding. Consequently, these illnesses and conditions may, in part, have hyperinsulinemia at their root cause and therefore should be classified among the diseases of Syndrome X.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=14527633


http://www.ncbi.nlm....st_uids=9509072



"J Dermatol. 1995 Apr;22(4):249-52. Related Articles, Links


Elevated serum insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) levels in women with postadolescent acne.

Aizawa H, Niimura M.

Department of Dermatology, Jikei University School of Medicine, Tokyo, Japan.

The purpose of this study was to measure the serum levels of IGF-1 in women with postadolescent acne compared to normal controls, and evaluate the relationship of these levels to the levels of androgens, in order to investigate the possible role of IGF-1 in the pathogenesis of acne. Eighty-two female patients with acne between 20 and 25 years of age and thirty-one age-matched control women were studied. We measured the serum levels of total testosterone (T), free testosterone (FT), dihydrotestosterone (DHT), dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHEA-S), and insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1). The levels of IGF-1 in patients with acne (1.26 +/- 0.52 U/ml) were significantly (p < 0.001) increased over those of controls (0.96 +/- 0.32 U/ml). Of 82 acne patients, six (7%) had IGF-1 levels which exceeded the normal range, but there were no significant correlations between IGF-1 and T, FT, DHT or DHEA-S levels or between IGF-1 and acne severity. Since the measurement of serum IGF-1 levels is a convenient indicator of GH secretion, the increase of serum IGF-1 levels seen in some acne patients might reflect an increase of GH."
http://www.ncbi.nlm....st_uids=7608381

Indeed, IGF-1 correlation is a bit tricky to pinpoint. Sometimes it's elevated and sometimes it isn't. The marker for Insulin Resistance as such isn't elevated IGF-1, but a decrease in SHBG (which binds free androgens). Accutane is not only a DHT inhibitor, but it also inhibits IGF-1. In fact, this is probably why it is most effective. Diets high in dairy, fats, and "bad" carbohydrates, reduce not just SHBG but also our IGFBP-3 protein which is responsible for binding IGF-1 to cease it's proliferative/growth effects. DHT calls upon IGF-1 to enlarge the sebacous glands and produce more sebum, but if you don't have the IGF-1 and a degree less DHT, those effects won't occur. As such, Accutane works by boosting our IGFBP-3 protein and proper dietary changes will boost booth SHBG and IGFBP-3.

HTH
These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):
* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)
* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002
* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)
* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):
* 1/18/08 Ultimate Colon Cleanse (30 day program)

Research:
* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).
* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.

#19 flipside

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 05:59 AM

wow sweetjade, :lol: you must be a medical student or a diabetic... or both.

thanks for posting all the info. i think i need to read up on hyperinsulinemia before i can digest it all.

this part JUMPED out at me

QUOTE
These endocrine shifts alter cellular proliferation and growth in a variety of tissues, the clinical course of which may promote acne, early menarche, certain epithelial cell carcinomas


my family has a history of skin cancer so im definitely gonna read up on this.

#20 evigrex

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 11:36 AM

...
before you judge me take a look at you
can't you find something better to do
point the finger, slow to understand
arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand

- Metallica, "holier than thou"