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Prove or DISPROVE that these are STONES


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#1 SweetJade1980

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 03:52 PM

OK, so here's the deal. Curezone (we know how some of you luv this place) says that in order to find out if you are truly expellling stones, vs. producing stones is to use a safe lipid soluble dye. They came up with Red chili pepper and Red Beet Powder, can anyone think of some others? Other lipid soluble dyes that are...Blue or Orange or other Reds?

The theory behind this is if you are producing your own stones, instead of expelling them through the liver, you will end up with stones that are the color of your dyed (olive) oil. So instead of yellow, brown, green. black stones, these stones should end up being throughout (cut them to see) Blue, Red, or Orange depending on your dye or maybe a new color entirely depending on how they interact with the other substrates.

Frankly, I'm tired of hearing it on this board, and I know most of you are to. So if this works as the theory suggests than we should hopefully have this matter cleared up after a few liver flushes from members of this board.

So who wants to go first?

Thanks =)

#2 Catwoman

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 04:47 PM

Hi Sweetjade -

I don't know much about liver flushing, but I do read the threads when the topic comes up to learn more about people's experiences with it.

Do you know if there has been a scientific examination of the stones? A study of the actual liver stones (from autopsies or surgeries) versus a study of the stones being passed via liver flushes. I'd be interested in knowing if they are identical.

One day maybe I'll try liver flushing. Right now I'm too lazy. smile.gif

#3 Denise2

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 06:51 PM

Oh sure, Catwoman. There is no doubt that autopsied liverstones and stones you pass through a flush are exactly identical. I also made a post that connected a study conducted by Chinese scientists who concluded that 1/3 of of all Chinese adults have intrahepatic stones (think of the average Chinese person's diet vs. the average American's diet). There was a skeptic of sorts who did all manner of research on this topic and came across some astonishing articles. She even put up a post from Johns Hopkins who admitted that people have intrahepatic stones, but that it is EXTREMELY rare...so rare, that it's dismissed. She was doing research after being diagnosed with an inflamed gallbladder and wanted to avoid surgery. It was funny because she is even skeptical of doctors as well as "alternative medicine"....she just likes to do her own research and found all of these amazing articles online. If you want the Chinese research post, I can put up the link again.

#4 Catwoman

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 07:11 PM

Thanks Denise!

I read that article that you posted a link to, it was an interesting read! Upon finishing that article, I went to other medical sites like MedLine (EDIT: MedlinePlus) and a few other ones (I forget which ones). I was on a roll and ended up Google'ing topics on it for about 3 hours that night. I mostly went to the medical sites not about liver flushes but about liver stones in general.

I also remember the link that you posted with the liver stone picture - I think it was a part of a university study on liver diseases in general, including jaundice (I didn't want to click on the jaundiced liver picture)!

What I remember from reading online (med sites) is that doctors do acknowledge liver stones, both Asian and western - although complications from it are not all too common. There are more studies done in Asia/Southeast Asia because liver stones are much more common in that region than in the west. Both Asian and Western resarchers/doctors document the higher Asian number of cases. I think the figure is that it's about 3x more common in Asia. I have to look that up again though, don't quote me on it! I don't know why that is...as it seems that an average Asian has a healthier diet than a westerner? Maybe it's not related to diet.

I'll go back and read it again, from what I remember, that Chinese doctor's research was more about the higher success rate of surgery to eliminate stones when done in conjunction with correcting stricture in the bile duct. I don't remember precisely...I was doing the reading at 4am. smile.gif

Would you post that link again?

(Thanks again, and please don't mind the avatar - it's a present from an admirer. wink.gif)

#5 MechE06

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 08:43 PM

What are intrahepatic stones? :huh:

#6 Catwoman

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 08:46 PM

^ liver stones

#7 BenKweller

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Posted 15 July 2004 - 10:59 PM

The dye theory wouldn't prove a thing since it would be quite easy for your body to disintegrate/alter the chemical properties of the dyes.

#8 Denise2

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 08:19 AM

Here is the link Catwoman:

http://www.wjgnet.co...-9327/3/131.asp

#9 SweetJade1980

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 11:01 AM

Ben,
Well as a future scientist you should never say "won't work" until you've tried it. I've heard arguments on here that the stones come out green because we used olive oil. Well my olive oil isn't green and my stones came out a variety of colors. Others have used a variety of oils colors ranging from clear to a yellow. So using the dyes just may work.

Yet, I did mention that it's absolutely possible that they can become altered, but we won't know until (more than) several people try it, preferably with using different lipid soluble dyes in hope of finding one that actually doesn't get altered to see if we are actually making our own soap stones (soap rocks - aren't those the coolest looking things).

Of course it would be great if everyone used the same dye and the same oil, but at the very least reporting back what oil, dye, and caustic (juice) they used is the best we can do here.

Take care

#10 BenKweller

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 11:15 AM

I just don't find color to be a great indicator of anything just because of how easy it is for enzymes (specifically amylases) to break down the many properties of oil. I still believe that liver flushing is simply saponification between the oil and some base in which the lemons used catalyze the reaction. That'd also explain why soap I used to make in my AP Chemistry class in High School could be white even though it used green olive oil.

#11 Catwoman

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 12:15 PM

^ BenK - if the liver stones from surgeries/autopsies are identical to the stones that are being passed during a flush...would that change your opinion? I have not found any research done on this so far, but would be interested to know.

(I am neither a believer or a skeptic of liver flushing. Merely trying to gather more information.)

#12 SweetJade1980

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 12:25 PM

Ben,
That is so cool, not in AP Chem or college chem courses did we ever make soap. There was a chemistry teacher that wrote something about the stones that are being produced turning out to be soap, but he too said we would find white chips. That's not what we found. We ended with something that looks like other pictures plastered all of the internet from a variety of sources.


For those interested, the below dyes are food based and antioxidants:

Saffron Powder - yellow
Paprika Powder - red
Cayenne/Chili Powder - orange, red
Tomato Powder - orange, red
Carrot Powder - red
Red Beet Powder - red
Curcimin, 95% (turmeric) - yellow, orange
Annatto Seed Powder - yellow, orange
Carotinoids - lutein lycopene, zeaxanthin, alpha & beta-carotene

http://www.kremer-pi...g/epigmen08.htm
http://www.foodprodu...998/0398AP.html

#13 SweetJade1980

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 01:07 PM

Catwoman,
I'm open to all possibilities. The biggest argument is that we are making these stones based on the ingredients used, yet there have been people that (painfully) passed a few stones that looked the exact way that the stones that we are allegedly producing, that never did a liver flush. There are also people that passed stones prior to drinking the olive oil - juice mixture. So if those two things can be explained away, I'd be convinced. ;-)

http://www.rasanic.c...lelithiasis.asp (foriegn)

http://www1.odn.ne.j...o/gallstone.jpg (foreign, but mine looked like these)

http://www1.usen.ne....echo/echo1.html (foreign)

http://surgery1.med....up_image/chole/ (foreign, but shows pics of various types of stones)

http://www.jichi.ac..../gallstone.jpeg
http://www.gastrolab.net/pa-076.htm

http://www.chevyasyl...ne/Welcome.html

"Thursday, March 21

Kirstin had her sugery & everything went just fine. Although she was a little queezy just after the operation, she felt much better a few hours later. In fact, we were out of the hospital & home by 5:00.

On a sidenote, the doctor gave Kirstin a souvenir gallstone, about the size of a marble. Of course, I wish he would have given us one of the golf ball sized ones he said that they found inside her. I will post a pic of the one we got this weekend. Comments (0) " http://www.kirvin.ne...s/gallstone.jpg (I google imaged searched this and cut out the really loooong link)

http://www.laparosco.../gallstone.html (mine looked like these)

HTH

#14 Denise2

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Posted 16 July 2004 - 01:19 PM

There are many people who have ultrasound results to prove that they flushed stones out of their gallbladders.

Golfskiyoga reported this at Curezone a while ago. FSBoiera from Brazil said the same thing when he started flushing. Read what Golfski said here: http://www.curezone....ums/f.asp?f=476

Also, as SweetJade noted, many people spontaneously release stones without consuming either olive oil or lemon or grapefruit (this happens a lot when people break a fast).

#15 robby

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Posted 19 July 2004 - 12:58 AM

why dont you try weighing yourself. Like weigh yourself at consistently every morning after you use the restroom (1 and 2). Your weight shouldn't flucuate that much.

How much do the stones weigh?

#16 flushy

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 12:01 AM

Ah the famous liver cleaning topic...

Now:
I've tried it and I went one step further. I actually took them to a lab to do an analysis on what's in them. Unfortunatelly for all you believers that one could seriously have up to 2000 stones in a liver, I must tell you that the content of the stones are nothing more than the a combination of the ingredients you swallow in the process.

According to the creator of this theory, the famous dr hulda clark, the stones swimm because they are full of cholesterol which happens to be lighter than water.
Well, the stones swimm because of the olive oil. The oil will pass your body almost unchanged and the lab test has revealed that the content of the stone is 97% olive oil. You may just as well crush the stones and reuse the oil in your salad.
The "stones" are made of a combination of epsom salt crystals, bile salts & fatty acids. The amount of stones you can build during a flush, depends on many factors. But let's put it this way: Nobody was ever able to get rid of all the stones. They magically apear over and over again. Your liver must be one big stone factory.

Now, there are people who simply won't accept it that way and that' perfectly fine with me. I don't expect them to do so as it is much easier to live life in denial. I'm sure they also all believe the many more funny topics of Hulda Clark such as that cancer is caused by a bacteria and that it can be cured within 5 days.

In the end it all comes down to what you want to believe. Nothing will convince you otherwise. So if you find it funny to "flush" your body every few weeks and to count all the funny stones, then go right ahead.

Happy flushing
:mrgreen:

#17 BenKweller

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 12:10 AM

You are great, Flushy! Thanks.

I've been saying that all along.

#18 sadcaroline

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 05:53 AM

interesting that this is 'flushys' first post. something tells me that he/she may have ties to our beloved benkweller wink.gif

#19 Keats

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 06:05 AM

QUOTE(sadcaroline @ Aug 8 2004, 05:40 AM)
interesting that this is 'flushys' first post. something tells me that he/she may have ties to our beloved benkweller wink.gif

I think it's just BenKweller in disguise B)

#20 flipside

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 06:08 AM

i was thinking that too. i know jc busted sombody the other day trying to respond to their own post. ben is smarter than that though... he would have used a different computer with a different address...

how about postin the analysis report flushy?