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MechE06

Question about flushing & parasites

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Flushing alone didn't clear my acne. I've emphasized the importance of bowel cleansing, and I detoxed all the heavy metals from my body. Mercury from silver amalgams (fillings) converts to methyl mercury in the gut, causing serious candida overgrowth. Candida overgrowth can cause acne as well. For me, it was a three-pronged approach.

I can break out now if I don't maintain my liver and bowel, but it's pretty negligible.

Read this link: http://www.dr-schnitzer.de/acne.html

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You are right Denise; I was hasty in my assertion that it was acid + oil that made the soap. Clearly, the acid is the catalyst in the reaction. What EXACTLY do you, personally, digest during your "liver flushes?"

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Uh, no. Take that as a sign that the link I provided provided proof for certain that lemon is not an "acid" that causes saponification.

And you never provided a link stating such. You are beginning to embarass yourself. You are reaching for any explanation, and it's obvious to everyone who can read that that is exactly what you are doing.

There isn't any evidence I can find anywhere that lemon or grapefruit has any ability to cause saponfication.

So once again, I'll ask for the link. I provided one. Now you do the same to prove your case.

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What about a lemon to find to have such amazing powers? It contains citric acid. The acid is a catalyst with some base which, when reacting with the oil, explains quite simply why the reaction can take place so "quickly" (others point out that saponification takes days). The only one embarassing themselves here is the one among us who believes anything they read on the internet (first, the liverflushing, then "provide me a link that proves this").

If you need explanation of what a catalyst is, please ask.

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Saponification is the reaction of a metallic alkali (base) with a fatty ester to form soap. Saponification is the making of soap.

CH2-OOC-R - CH-OOC-R - CH2-OOC-R (fat)

+ 3 NaOH ( or KOH)

both heated --->>

CH2-OH -CH-OH - CH2-OH (glycerol)

+ 3 R-CO2-Na (soap)

R=(CH2)14CH3 (for example)

Sodium chloride is added to precipitate the soap.

Lye is a form of sodium hydroxide which is a caustic base. If NaOH is used a hard soap is formed, whereas a soft soap is formed when KOH is used.

Animal fat is a fatty ester in the form of triacylglycerol. The alkali breaks the ester bond and releases the fatty acid and glycerol.

The soap is salted out by precipitating it with sodium chloride.

Saponification is often generalized to refer to the breaking of ester bonds using a caustic alkali.

Soap Mummies

Saponification can also refer to the conversion of fat and other soft tissue in a corpse into adipocere. This process is more common where the amount of fatty tissue is high, the agents of decomposition absent or only minutely present, and the burial ground is particularly alkali.

**Since many of the intrahepatic stones are composed of cholesterol, bilirubin, and bile, then they are usually soft. I have passed 3 white, hard, calcified stones also. But let's say that they are soft. According to this information, KOH would be used in saponfication.

So is KOH lemon or grapefruit?

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What type of drugs have you been ingesting? Do you know what sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide are? Clearly, you don't. You are being the textbook example of a bad researcher in that you are relying on sources that dumb down. Saponification occurs between ANY caustic and an oil if certain conditions are right. The fact that citric acid is there is a good catalyst for this and any food in your stomach easily provides the alkalinity needed for the reaction. I, as I don't spend the hours needed to care this much, don't research what bases are consumed in a "flush" but clearly they exist.

Once again, saponification in soap making uses NaOH (for solid soap) or KOH (for liquid) but I am talking saponification as in the reaction; not in the soap-producing sense. Wikipedia won't help you with this, Denny.

Remember just what saponification is; oil's properties changing as a result of being broken by a caustic (either acid or base though almost always base because they are more efficiently corrosive). Any other questions?

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What link? Have you even taken the time to read my posts. Anyone who has the ability to learn chemistry can understand what I've been saying. Unlike you, this goes on actual understanding of science and not on an undying love for Google.

If you have anything else to contribute here, please do so because you are just getting desperate.

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Lye is a form of sodium hydroxide which is a caustic base. If NaOH is used a hard soap is formed, whereas a soft soap is formed when KOH is used.

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Ben, I assure you I can read. But you keep asserting as FACT that lemon and grapefruit juice is CAUSTIC ENOUGH to cause saponification. Prove it. You keep stating it is a fact. But I missed that theory in science class. I have also not seen this theory on the internet anywhere. Lye is pretty strong....you are equating the small amount of citric acid in lemons and grapefruits with lye, or KOH, which can cause great harm if ingested.

You are reaching towards a theory that isn't proven. If you are such a serious scientist, please prove it at your house. Surely, you being the brilliant scientist and whatnot can prove this rather easily. Do oranges have the same effect? What about clementines? Nectarines?

Again...you are embarassing yourself by trying to infer that I'm an idiot. You are trying to float this theory when nothing could be further from the truth, and you know it. There isn't enough "caustic" material in lemons or grapefruits to cause saponification. That's not proven. If it was true, all the soapmakers in the world would use citric acid instead of lye; probably a lot cheaper.

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Lemons are actually much more expensive than the $6 you can pay to produce pounds of effective NaOH soap. As I said, what you producing by "flushing" are simply low-quality pieces of soap; stronger caustics work better.

You are not finding the research online because you are finding soap making information which is quite separate from saponification as a strict chemical reaction; find a nice college chemistry book at your local library and see if you can find it (even that's a maybe because anyone writing a book that advanced will assume the researcher knows what a caustic is...). The reaction needed to break ester bonds is not always one that requires a extremely caustic substance; that's why flushing is so funny. You produce stones of varying quality for this very reason.

In a college course, I once produced 2 oz. of very very sloppy soap using palm oil and vinegar. Surprisingly enough, though, it seemed quite solid once I exerted pressure on it. Your intestines can do this just as well. Good luck flushing but the only thing your liver has to do with it is wondering why you're eating Dove.

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Right. And that explains why people's symptoms just happen to go away when they stop producting "soap stones". That's why they can even do three flushes and nothing comes out That's why ultrasounds prove that stones are gone. That's why we have posted copies of lab reports proving calcified stones were passed. That's why people's symptoms disappear (like my severe chemical sensitivities) as well as .

All you are doing is stating what you THINK is happening, without proof. All you can do is state what you've experimented with, but you've never experimented with lemons or grapefruits. You try to assert this as fact, but the fact is that you cannot even prove what you are saying.

Saponification usually only happens under extremely controlled circumstances. I am no scientist, but I know that much, even from high school chemistry class.

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Denise,

What I notice the most about certain board members, is how they desire for us to provide scientific evidence (we usually do) that supports what we are saying or have personally experienced, yet they rarely do the very same thing for their counterarguments. So why should we put so much effort into it, when they aren't willing to do the same???

Also, lemon & oil, vinegar & oil, etc mixtures have been used for salad dressings so I'm not sure how much needs to be injested to produce soap. Yet, anyone who uses natural skin care products knows that not just lotions, but soap are also made from oils. This soap can be a liquid or hard depending on the ingredients used, and I personally wash with the non-comedegenic ones.

Futhermore, our bodies produce it's own soap every time it produces Bile Salts. So yeah, usually we are in a sense flushing soap, so this is a dead argument and we should move on to what really matters. ;-)

So, the real questions are:

- Did we instantly produce these or did our livers produce these over time?

- How is it possible to produce these stones after fasting for days and never doing a liver flush?

- How is it possible to produce these stones without ever fasting, doing a liver flush, or surgically removing them?

- How is it possible to find parasites within or wrapped around these stones?

- Why do these stones look like other stones (there are many different colors and types of stones) that have been removed from surgery in other countries?

Can you think of any others that need to be disproved?

Bye for now ;-)


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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Yeah, good stuff. I'm glad you're cured Denise, I truly am. It shows just how helpful a positive attitude can be in someone's health.

Live long and prosperous,

BK

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Denise,

Would you recommend me to do a complete body cleanse( intestinal cleanse(kill parasites),liver cleanse, and wheat bran & psyllium) before doing a liver flush???

A very knowledgeable person recommended me a complete detoxification package, which includes fasting for a couple of days. I was wondering if I could do a liver flush right after doing thiis body cleanse??? if not, how long do I have to wait??? Thank you very much. smile.gif

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Hey Zap: That sounds like a good plan. As I've stated countless times, it's important to do thorough bowel cleansing; that is every bit as important as liverflushing. Yes, you can do a bowel cleansing, and when that is winding down, you can do a flush, and then continue to flush until the stones are all gone (when you get two back-to-back "clean" flushes with no stones produced). Be sure to continue bowel cleansing during the flushing; colonics helped me unbelievably. Enemas only reach a small portion of the bowel. Or, if you don't want anyone messing with your arse, you can get a colema board and do it yourself. Keep in mind that the large intestine is the only thing cleansed during a colonic or colema, and that castor oil packs help with the release of toxic material. The small intestine is cleansed with herbs; that is also where most mucoid plaque is produced.

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