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AMVC spontaneous scarring

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#481 Binga

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 12:42 AM

Looking into doing some needling done by a professional. They know what topicals to use.There are groupon deals in my area for needling with PRP.

Edited by Binga, 24 April 2015 - 12:48 AM.


#482 *DarkHeart*

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Posted 24 April 2015 - 09:08 AM

The thing that worries me about needling is that it causes inflammation, and it is possible that some of this AMVC or whatever, spontaneous scarring could be caused by inflammation. I do have a dermaroller, but like with everything, I am too scared to use it >_< Maybe a year or so down the road if my scars haven't gone or at least improved enough I might give it a try, but with a dermastamp for individual scars. I do know I personally could never afford professional treatments, though :/

Edited by *DarkHeart*, 24 April 2015 - 09:09 AM.


#483 missamua

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Posted 25 April 2015 - 12:08 AM

Hi, I've done a little bit of research on AMVC... as I was actually experiencing spontaneous scarring for a short period of time and for whatever reason eventually stopped getting new scars. I wonder if subcision would be the safest way to go in this kind if situation? Since you are just treating the scars themselves and not surrounding skin...less chance of inflammation triggering more scars. Has anyone had this done? I'm just curious. I feel so sorry for anyone who has to deal with this. 

Edited by missamua, 25 April 2015 - 12:10 AM.


#484 andyc192

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Posted 30 April 2015 - 09:27 PM

Hi I was only accurate from age of 19. and had a few bouts of it. Some years down the line with no acne breakouts I have developed scarring out of nowhere . I've tried numerous of lasers etc. No results. I totally stopped looking in the mirror now. No one seems to know we're my scars come from.

#485 *DarkHeart*

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 07:05 AM

Hi, I've done a little bit of research on AMVC... as I was actually experiencing spontaneous scarring for a short period of time and for whatever reason eventually stopped getting new scars. I wonder if subcision would be the safest way to go in this kind if situation? Since you are just treating the scars themselves and not surrounding skin...less chance of inflammation triggering more scars. Has anyone had this done? I'm just curious. I feel so sorry for anyone who has to deal with this. 

Hi, my scarring is very shallow, you almost can't tell it is a scar some times....but my worst scar is slightly pink, so it looks so obvious :( Were any of your scars discolored or were they just skin colored? If so did redness go away? It has been 5 months for me and am wondering if the color of it will ever go away. Even if my worst scar doesn't fill in, it would look heaps better if it weren't red/pink. I also have icepick type scars from this mess. I have for sure narrowed the cause down to AHA+ use. Worst decision I ever made in my life, using that stuff! I regret it every day. I no longer get spontaneous scars, just trying to repair the damage I am left with at this point. Anyway, for me I don't think subcision would be the way to go since like I said my scarring is extremely shallow and wide, and I heard that subcision is not meant for shallow scars. My derm said she thought it would plump up and fade away on it's own with time, but I don't know. This scar is weird, since it came out of nowhere I have no idea if it will heal or improve any like a normal scar would. I ordered some MSM cream because I read a few people having success with that. I don't have high hopes but I am desperate so anything is worth a try. I'll let you guys know if it helps me at all.



#486 boafriend

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Posted 17 May 2015 - 05:59 PM

Hi, I've done a little bit of research on AMVC... as I was actually experiencing spontaneous scarring for a short period of time and for whatever reason eventually stopped getting new scars. I wonder if subcision would be the safest way to go in this kind if situation? Since you are just treating the scars themselves and not surrounding skin...less chance of inflammation triggering more scars. Has anyone had this done? I'm just curious. I feel so sorry for anyone who has to deal with this. 

Hi, my scarring is very shallow, you almost can't tell it is a scar some times....but my worst scar is slightly pink, so it looks so obvious :( Were any of your scars discolored or were they just skin colored? If so did redness go away? It has been 5 months for me and am wondering if the color of it will ever go away. Even if my worst scar doesn't fill in, it would look heaps better if it weren't red/pink. I also have icepick type scars from this mess. I have for sure narrowed the cause down to AHA+ use. Worst decision I ever made in my life, using that stuff! I regret it every day. I no longer get spontaneous scars, just trying to repair the damage I am left with at this point. Anyway, for me I don't think subcision would be the way to go since like I said my scarring is extremely shallow and wide, and I heard that subcision is not meant for shallow scars. My derm said she thought it would plump up and fade away on it's own with time, but I don't know. This scar is weird, since it came out of nowhere I have no idea if it will heal or improve any like a normal scar would. I ordered some MSM cream because I read a few people having success with that. I don't have high hopes but I am desperate so anything is worth a try. I'll let you guys know if it helps me at all.

The only thing that could possibly work is microneedling. Make sure you apply a quality vitamin C serum afterwards. Also, as you may know, seeing improvement will take a very long time, unfortunately. It's easy to get frustrated and discouraged and want to give up, but don't.

Also, I wouldn't advise listening to people who say to needle/stamp every week...absolutely ridiculous. At most once every 2 weeks if you want to be aggressive. As for MSM cream, I have heard some people reporting success....I tried MSM cream but it was only for a month and I didn't see any notable improvement. I would say try for vitamin C since it's the main ingredient shown to help with collagen, but definitely combine your topical application of it with needling of some sort so the stuff gets deep into your scar tissue.



#487 garfieldodie

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Posted 08 June 2015 - 06:53 AM

i have suffered from spontaneous scar over my face since around three years ago. I have visited a few dermatologists and no one told me what it is. I spent a lot on different skincare, facial treatments and even eMatrix treatment recently. I found that it has got worse so I stopped those treatments though I paid. Last month, I finally visited a therapist who diagnosed me as AMVC. It is probably due to the substantial amount of steroid and antibiotics I took when I was younger. I did not drink water n had no vegetable when I was younger and I had too much sashimi which may be inflammatory.

What I need to do now.... clean diet... drink more water... and do something to clean my liver.

#488 Nikea

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 12:10 PM

Boafriend,

I just wanted to let you know how much your thorough posts have helped me in trying to figure out what was happening to my own skin which started up in January of this year. I would say that my symptoms are a combination of yours and to a lesser extent iloveuk’s (whom I hope is doing well since her last post in 2010 was heartbreaking). After some exhaustive research I think I may have stumbled upon the cause of this awful malady and it has nothing to do with viruses, Candida, vitamin deficiencies or lack of yoga for goodness sake, Binga. I think it has everything to do with antibiotic or other drug-related toxicity.

Some background info – I am female, in my late thirties (so I know my skin well) with a BMI of 20 and a healthy outward appearance (normally). I had spine surgery in the fall of last year and during my recovery I developed a sinus infection that I wanted to treat aggressively because all the sneezing was killing my back. I normally decline to use antibiotics but I figured I’d make an exception in this case as my doctor prescribed a 12-day round of Augmentin (Amoxicillin and Clavulanic Acid mix) which I figured was a pretty standard treatment. On day 10 I drank half a glass of sparkling grape juice at a Christmas party from a brand I regularly consume and suddenly within 15 minutes the skin on my cheeks, jawline and upper neck erupted into a rash of pink hives, followed by blistering pustules within the hives that were completely unlike any type of acne I’ve ever had before. They were burning and had very thin skin on the top of the pustule that would easily pop with light pressure from a pair of tweezers, unlike normal zits that you have to squeeze. (TMI, I know, but I just want to establish the fact that this was an abnormal reaction due to the medication I was taking.)

I went to my doctor the very next day and against my better judgment he told me to take the last two days of the Augmentin and prescribed me another antibiotic, Keflex, for the hives/blister rash eruption. I took the rest of the Augmentin as directed (big mistake) but declined the Keflex, fearing another reaction. The rash cleared up in a week but the Augmentin had done absolutely nothing to help my sinus infection, so I went to an ENT specialist who prescribed a compound nasal spray with an antifungal and antibiotic in it which gave immediate relief. However, about this time my skin started in with the spontaneous scarring – first with round discolored craters (some were light in the middle with darker outlines, some were darker in the middle), then the connected pores forming shapes, then the ice-pick scars and gouge marks, then the large, puffy, “dead” areas mainly on my cheeks (I call them “continents” because they seem like slightly raised, slightly grayish landmasses with highly irregular borders elevated above the rest of my skin). I also had more blistering reactions if I consumed sugary drinks, random red spots appearing on my skin on most mornings, patches of abnormally enlarged pores on my cheeks, and a rough itchy dry patch on my upper neck with horizontal lines in it like you described appearing on your knees. The worst part of it was the constant what I called “bubbling” or crawling sensation under the skin of my nose – on the top, tip, sides and a little on my cheeks – which I thought was a reaction to the nasal spray. If you hadn’t described this as one of your symptoms, I would have completely attributed it to my sinus problems as it only affected my nose area. This was the symptom that led me to your posts on essentialdayspa, where I realized it was all connected.

I started reading both forums and since I was absolutely positive this spontaneous skin-scarring aftermath was related to the blistering skin reaction I had while taking Augmentin, I decided I would start looking up the most severe known reactions to antibiotics and see if they were somehow related to what we were experiencing. Turns out, there is a horrifying and deadly reaction to antibiotics and other drugs called Toxic Epidermal Necrosis, or TEN, and to a lesser extent, Stevens-Johnson Syndrome, or SJS. On Wikipedia it describes TEN/SJS as a severe drug reaction that causes the top layer of the skin, or epidermis, to completely shear off or separate from the bottom layer, the dermis, because of the way the drugs cause the cells and basal cells of those layers, called Keratinocytes, to die off prematurely or suddenly through apoptosis (rapid programmed cell death) or necrosis (where the cells are actually killed by the chemical itself). This of course is on the extreme side of the reactionary scale but it stands to reason that if this is a possible side effect of antibiotics and other drugs, then it most certainly can happen on a much smaller and more gradual scale – perhaps so small as to be undetected by doctors and dermatologists. At any rate, it’s the similarity of symptoms that lead me to conclude this spontaneous scarring and dramatic negative changes in skin quality are due to medicinal toxicity and the death of keratinocytes in and under the skin.

Adding to this theory is the fact that keratinocytes “migrate with a ROLLING MOTION during the process of wound healing,” (from Wikipedia under Keratinocyte) right between the dermis and the epidermis which is precisely where that “bubbling” or crawling/tingling sensation occurs, for me at least.

With this in mind, I began a completely internet-research based healing regimen based on these goals: 1) Detoxification of antibiotics and other medicines from within the body; 2) Repairing damaged Keratinocytes in the skin; and 3) Repairing damaged collagen caused by antibiotic use.

I am thrilled to say that after a half-dozen attempts to stop the daily scarring, I finally found a regimen that works – so far. It’s definitely not perfect and I have a long way to go to get back to normal, but the significant improvement within one week made me believe I’m on the right track. I was experimenting with so many things at first it was kind of difficult to keep track of it all, much less write it down, but I’ll do my best to list what worked and what didn’t…for me at least:
  • Collagen:  I began taking Collagen pills I got from the health food store, specifically “Irwin Naturals Collagen-Pure with Hydrating Coconut Water.” These pills helped me tremendously with my joint pain and I could almost immediately feel my facial skin become more firm and less reactive to pressure or indentations (if I even accidentally pressed my fingernail into my skin while rubbing my eye or something, the indentation would remain for half an hour). So I would highly recommend these supplements to make the skin seem less “dead,” but unfortunately they did nothing to stop the scarring itself.
 
  • Essential Oils:  I began applying a nightly Essential Oil solution of Frankincense, Myrrh, and Lavender with an Evening Primrose carrier oil (I started this back when I suspected the facial scarring to be a virus) which had some really great side effects – the discoloration of the crater/ring scarring (as well as the melasma on my cheekbones) lightened significantly and my overall skin tone improved. The oils also healed that rough, red, itchy patch of skin with horizontal lines in it on my neck after only 2 applications, but the daily spontaneous facial scarring continued unabated.
 
  • Glutathione and Phosphatidyl Choline:  Oh boy…where do I start with this one. I read about Glutathione and Phosphatidyl Choline from an online group of people who’d been poisoned by fluoride-based antibiotics who call themselves “Floxies.” Apparently, if you need to detox from antibiotics or rapidly heal from chronic health issues, Glutathione is the way to go. I highly recommend everyone doing their own research as there’s lots of conflicting information, such as what form to take or whether external supplementation works at all (since your body makes its own), but I can only tell you from my own experience that glutathione triggered such a rapid detoxification that I wish I would have been more prepared for it…but I am so happy I did it. I chose a 50mg tablet of Reduced Glutathione (which was actually L-Glutathione or Liposomal Glutathione which is encased in fat so it isn’t destroyed by stomach enzymes and is a tripeptide composed of the amino acids L-cysteine, L-glutamic acid, and glycine) and paired it with a 420mg Phosphatidyl Choline in Lecithin (a phospholipid that repairs nerves), both from Source Naturals. And like I say later on in this list, I should have done a detox bath first. I took one tablet before dinner a little over a week ago and right as I was going to sleep I had GI cramping which was severe but fleeting, but then the skin on my face started to burn – all night long. I had dreams my face was on fire. I had all sorts of stabbing nerve and joint pain, particularly in areas like my knees that the antibiotics had affected negatively. In the morning I had no nerve or joint pain, but only a stomachache which went away pretty quickly with food. But I knew I had gone through a major detox, and my skin did have a few new scars come up from the burn, even though they seemed more superficial. The next day I took it a huge rash of infected acne came up on my forehead (which I healed with turmeric and evening primrose oil). So, not only do I suggest a detox bath before starting these powerful detoxifying agents (that the Floxies say takes about a week to start feeling better which was my experience as well) but also maybe to start on a day you don’t work just to see how your body reacts. But I’ve had so many positives come from taking this that for me it’s completely worth the horrendous effects of the detoxification process….as with any true detox, you get worse before you get better.
 
  • Topical Cream/Serum:  Once I recognized the need for keratinocyte repair, I found a 2013 Life Extension Magazine report (I’m a new poster so I don’t think I can post links yet) about a newly developed peptide that heals keratinocytes and causes your body to create more of them, called Acetyl Tetrapeptide-2. I scoured the internet for a product that contains this specific peptide and there are a few, but there’s only one I found that has absolutely no retinols in it which is Circadia by Dr. Pugliese’s Revita-Cyte Complex. I couldn’t find that line of products anywhere locally so I found a website called dermstore dot com which made me call in for the price which was a hundred dollars when I ordered it last week. It recommended a Vitamin C Reversal Serum to go along with it so I got that as well – all told it was $170 with shipping. The very first night I used it I could feel a deep pain in my cheeks which was so intense it almost felt like my upper teeth and gums were hurting too. I could tell it was doing some intense repair work and when I woke up the next morning to check my face I was elated…the scarring had FINALLY stopped and my old scars had diminished dramatically, particularly the connected pore-line ones and cheek gouges. The puffy “continents” on my cheeks had reduced and I could see more of my normal face-shape again. The craters are a bit more stubborn but they seem less noticeable, maybe because I’m just happy to see improvement. It was crazy to have that great of a result in just one application and I got the same result the next night – deep pain in my cheeks, but waking up with no new scars and old scars made lighter and shallower. For me, these products are miraculous. Another amazing result was that the constant annoying bubbling or tingling sensation in my nose decreased dramatically to where I only now feel a slight vibration periodically with only occasional spikes of the tingling when I lay down. But I don’t know how that would work if the tingling is affecting your scalp and eyebrows. (But be aware that the glutathione can cause more scars to come up, at least temporarily.) By the way, I found out the dermstore has a great 60-day money back guarantee on all their products if they don’t work or if you react which is great since they are expensive. Maybe you can find these cheaper elsewhere – I was desperate to try something fast so I didn’t do much shopping around.
 
  • “Irish Moss”:  Within that same Magazine report it also mentioned another thing that stimulates keratinocytes called Irish Moss (Chondrus crispus) – a misnomer as it is actually seaweed that grows in the Atlantic ocean. I ordered some Irish Moss powder from the Health food store but I won’t get it for another week or two. (If it works, maybe this would be a better option for tingling under hair follicles?)
 
  • Detox Baths:  Now this is probably something I should have done first – before taking the glutathione, and before using the facial creams. I believe the painful and frightening detox reactions I experienced would have been much less severe if I had. Live and learn. I found a great detox bath recipe from Vanessa Romero on healthylivinghowto dot com and followed it exactly (“Dotox Bath: Why and How” – 2 Cups Epsom Salt (only Magnesium Sulfate), I cup Baking Soda, 5-10 drops lavender essential oil added to hot bath, lightly shower with cool water afterwards). Ever since my first bath, the glutathione doesn’t upset my stomach at all nor does my skin burn when I lie down. But I did almost pass out after getting out of my first bath, so be careful!
 
I apologize for this lengthy post – I probably shouldn’t have attempted to respond to two years of your posts in one sitting. I feel awful that you and others have been dealing with this for years especially after all the dermatologists and other health care professionals you’ve seen. I hope this helps you in some way – I can’t tell you how much all your detailed information has helped me as I was absolutely certain I had some sort of virus or skin infection. It was only when I realized we all had antibiotic/retinoic acid toxicity as a common thread that led me to look at other possible sources. If it turns out that none of this helps…well I guess that’s just one more thing to cross off the list! I look forward to any additional theories or remedies you are able to suggest. Thank you so much again for keeping this thread alive and I hope this response finds you well.

#489 boafriend

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Posted 03 July 2015 - 12:22 PM

Boafriend,

I just wanted to let you know how much your thorough posts have helped me in trying to figure out what was happening to my own skin which started up in January of this year. I would say that my symptoms are a combination of yours and to a lesser extent iloveuk’s (whom I hope is doing well since her last post in 2010 was heartbreaking). After some exhaustive research I think I may have stumbled upon the cause of this awful malady and it has nothing to do with viruses, Candida, vitamin deficiencies or lack of yoga for goodness sake, Binga. I think it has everything to do with antibiotic or other drug-related toxicity.

Some background info – I am female, in my late thirties (so I know my skin well) with a BMI of 20 and a healthy outward appearance (normally). I had spine surgery in the fall of last year and during my recovery I developed a sinus infection that I wanted to treat aggressively because all the sneezing was killing my back. I normally decline to use antibiotics but I figured I’d make an exception in this case as my doctor prescribed a 12-day round of Augmentin (Amoxicillin and Clavulanic Acid mix) which I figured was a pretty standard treatment. On day 10 I drank half a glass of sparkling grape juice at a Christmas party from a brand I regularly consume and suddenly within 15 minutes the skin on my cheeks, jawline and upper neck erupted into a rash of pink hives, followed by blistering pustules within the hives that were completely unlike any type of acne I’ve ever had before. They were burning and had very thin skin on the top of the pustule that would easily pop with light pressure from a pair of tweezers, unlike normal zits that you have to squeeze. (TMI, I know, but I just want to establish the fact that this was an abnormal reaction due to the medication I was taking.)

I went to my doctor the very next day and against my better judgment he told me to take the last two days of the Augmentin and prescribed me another antibiotic, Keflex, for the hives/blister rash eruption. I took the rest of the Augmentin as directed (big mistake) but declined the Keflex, fearing another reaction. The rash cleared up in a week but the Augmentin had done absolutely nothing to help my sinus infection, so I went to an ENT specialist who prescribed a compound nasal spray with an antifungal and antibiotic in it which gave immediate relief. However, about this time my skin started in with the spontaneous scarring – first with round discolored craters (some were light in the middle with darker outlines, some were darker in the middle), then the connected pores forming shapes, then the ice-pick scars and gouge marks, then the large, puffy, “dead” areas mainly on my cheeks (I call them “continents” because they seem like slightly raised, slightly grayish landmasses with highly irregular borders elevated above the rest of my skin). I also had more blistering reactions if I consumed sugary drinks, random red spots appearing on my skin on most mornings, patches of abnormally enlarged pores on my cheeks, and a rough itchy dry patch on my upper neck with horizontal lines in it like you described appearing on your knees. The worst part of it was the constant what I called “bubbling” or crawling sensation under the skin of my nose – on the top, tip, sides and a little on my cheeks – which I thought was a reaction to the nasal spray. If you hadn’t described this as one of your symptoms, I would have completely attributed it to my sinus problems as it only affected my nose area. This was the symptom that led me to your posts on essentialdayspa, where I realized it was all connected.

I started reading both forums and since I was absolutely positive this spontaneous skin-scarring aftermath was related to the blistering skin reaction I had while taking Augmentin, I decided I would start looking up the most severe known reactions to antibiotics and see if they were somehow related to what we were experiencing. Turns out, there is a horrifying and deadly reaction to antibiotics and other drugs called Toxic Epidermal Necrosis, or TEN, and to a lesser extent, Stevens-Johnson Syndrome, or SJS. On Wikipedia it describes TEN/SJS as a severe drug reaction that causes the top layer of the skin, or epidermis, to completely shear off or separate from the bottom layer, the dermis, because of the way the drugs cause the cells and basal cells of those layers, called Keratinocytes, to die off prematurely or suddenly through apoptosis (rapid programmed cell death) or necrosis (where the cells are actually killed by the chemical itself). This of course is on the extreme side of the reactionary scale but it stands to reason that if this is a possible side effect of antibiotics and other drugs, then it most certainly can happen on a much smaller and more gradual scale – perhaps so small as to be undetected by doctors and dermatologists. At any rate, it’s the similarity of symptoms that lead me to conclude this spontaneous scarring and dramatic negative changes in skin quality are due to medicinal toxicity and the death of keratinocytes in and under the skin.

Adding to this theory is the fact that keratinocytes “migrate with a ROLLING MOTION during the process of wound healing,” (from Wikipedia under Keratinocyte) right between the dermis and the epidermis which is precisely where that “bubbling” or crawling/tingling sensation occurs, for me at least.

With this in mind, I began a completely internet-research based healing regimen based on these goals: 1) Detoxification of antibiotics and other medicines from within the body; 2) Repairing damaged Keratinocytes in the skin; and 3) Repairing damaged collagen caused by antibiotic use.

I am thrilled to say that after a half-dozen attempts to stop the daily scarring, I finally found a regimen that works – so far. It’s definitely not perfect and I have a long way to go to get back to normal, but the significant improvement within one week made me believe I’m on the right track. I was experimenting with so many things at first it was kind of difficult to keep track of it all, much less write it down, but I’ll do my best to list what worked and what didn’t…for me at least:

  • Collagen:  I began taking Collagen pills I got from the health food store, specifically “Irwin Naturals Collagen-Pure with Hydrating Coconut Water.” These pills helped me tremendously with my joint pain and I could almost immediately feel my facial skin become more firm and less reactive to pressure or indentations (if I even accidentally pressed my fingernail into my skin while rubbing my eye or something, the indentation would remain for half an hour). So I would highly recommend these supplements to make the skin seem less “dead,” but unfortunately they did nothing to stop the scarring itself.
 
  • Essential Oils:  I began applying a nightly Essential Oil solution of Frankincense, Myrrh, and Lavender with an Evening Primrose carrier oil (I started this back when I suspected the facial scarring to be a virus) which had some really great side effects – the discoloration of the crater/ring scarring (as well as the melasma on my cheekbones) lightened significantly and my overall skin tone improved. The oils also healed that rough, red, itchy patch of skin with horizontal lines in it on my neck after only 2 applications, but the daily spontaneous facial scarring continued unabated.
 
  • Glutathione and Phosphatidyl Choline:  Oh boy…where do I start with this one. I read about Glutathione and Phosphatidyl Choline from an online group of people who’d been poisoned by fluoride-based antibiotics who call themselves “Floxies.” Apparently, if you need to detox from antibiotics or rapidly heal from chronic health issues, Glutathione is the way to go. I highly recommend everyone doing their own research as there’s lots of conflicting information, such as what form to take or whether external supplementation works at all (since your body makes its own), but I can only tell you from my own experience that glutathione triggered such a rapid detoxification that I wish I would have been more prepared for it…but I am so happy I did it. I chose a 50mg tablet of Reduced Glutathione (which was actually L-Glutathione or Liposomal Glutathione which is encased in fat so it isn’t destroyed by stomach enzymes and is a tripeptide composed of the amino acids L-cysteine, L-glutamic acid, and glycine) and paired it with a 420mg Phosphatidyl Choline in Lecithin (a phospholipid that repairs nerves), both from Source Naturals. And like I say later on in this list, I should have done a detox bath first. I took one tablet before dinner a little over a week ago and right as I was going to sleep I had GI cramping which was severe but fleeting, but then the skin on my face started to burn – all night long. I had dreams my face was on fire. I had all sorts of stabbing nerve and joint pain, particularly in areas like my knees that the antibiotics had affected negatively. In the morning I had no nerve or joint pain, but only a stomachache which went away pretty quickly with food. But I knew I had gone through a major detox, and my skin did have a few new scars come up from the burn, even though they seemed more superficial. The next day I took it a huge rash of infected acne came up on my forehead (which I healed with turmeric and evening primrose oil). So, not only do I suggest a detox bath before starting these powerful detoxifying agents (that the Floxies say takes about a week to start feeling better which was my experience as well) but also maybe to start on a day you don’t work just to see how your body reacts. But I’ve had so many positives come from taking this that for me it’s completely worth the horrendous effects of the detoxification process….as with any true detox, you get worse before you get better.
 
  • Topical Cream/Serum:  Once I recognized the need for keratinocyte repair, I found a 2013 Life Extension Magazine report (I’m a new poster so I don’t think I can post links yet) about a newly developed peptide that heals keratinocytes and causes your body to create more of them, called Acetyl Tetrapeptide-2. I scoured the internet for a product that contains this specific peptide and there are a few, but there’s only one I found that has absolutely no retinols in it which is Circadia by Dr. Pugliese’s Revita-Cyte Complex. I couldn’t find that line of products anywhere locally so I found a website called dermstore dot com which made me call in for the price which was a hundred dollars when I ordered it last week. It recommended a Vitamin C Reversal Serum to go along with it so I got that as well – all told it was $170 with shipping. The very first night I used it I could feel a deep pain in my cheeks which was so intense it almost felt like my upper teeth and gums were hurting too. I could tell it was doing some intense repair work and when I woke up the next morning to check my face I was elated…the scarring had FINALLY stopped and my old scars had diminished dramatically, particularly the connected pore-line ones and cheek gouges. The puffy “continents” on my cheeks had reduced and I could see more of my normal face-shape again. The craters are a bit more stubborn but they seem less noticeable, maybe because I’m just happy to see improvement. It was crazy to have that great of a result in just one application and I got the same result the next night – deep pain in my cheeks, but waking up with no new scars and old scars made lighter and shallower. For me, these products are miraculous. Another amazing result was that the constant annoying bubbling or tingling sensation in my nose decreased dramatically to where I only now feel a slight vibration periodically with only occasional spikes of the tingling when I lay down. But I don’t know how that would work if the tingling is affecting your scalp and eyebrows. (But be aware that the glutathione can cause more scars to come up, at least temporarily.) By the way, I found out the dermstore has a great 60-day money back guarantee on all their products if they don’t work or if you react which is great since they are expensive. Maybe you can find these cheaper elsewhere – I was desperate to try something fast so I didn’t do much shopping around.
 
  • “Irish Moss”:  Within that same Magazine report it also mentioned another thing that stimulates keratinocytes called Irish Moss (Chondrus crispus) – a misnomer as it is actually seaweed that grows in the Atlantic ocean. I ordered some Irish Moss powder from the Health food store but I won’t get it for another week or two. (If it works, maybe this would be a better option for tingling under hair follicles?)
 
  • Detox Baths:  Now this is probably something I should have done first – before taking the glutathione, and before using the facial creams. I believe the painful and frightening detox reactions I experienced would have been much less severe if I had. Live and learn. I found a great detox bath recipe from Vanessa Romero on healthylivinghowto dot com and followed it exactly (“Dotox Bath: Why and How” – 2 Cups Epsom Salt (only Magnesium Sulfate), I cup Baking Soda, 5-10 drops lavender essential oil added to hot bath, lightly shower with cool water afterwards). Ever since my first bath, the glutathione doesn’t upset my stomach at all nor does my skin burn when I lie down. But I did almost pass out after getting out of my first bath, so be careful!
 
I apologize for this lengthy post – I probably shouldn’t have attempted to respond to two years of your posts in one sitting. I feel awful that you and others have been dealing with this for years especially after all the dermatologists and other health care professionals you’ve seen. I hope this helps you in some way – I can’t tell you how much all your detailed information has helped me as I was absolutely certain I had some sort of virus or skin infection. It was only when I realized we all had antibiotic/retinoic acid toxicity as a common thread that led me to look at other possible sources. If it turns out that none of this helps…well I guess that’s just one more thing to cross off the list! I look forward to any additional theories or remedies you are able to suggest. Thank you so much again for keeping this thread alive and I hope this response finds you well.

I can't thank you enough for this post; on all the forums I've been on and posted on, this was probably the most comprehensive one yet. This actually comes 1 week before I am about to see a lyme literate doctor, spending nearly $900 or so in total just for an initial consultation fee and Igenex lab testing fee.

Yeah, you are definitely like me...all this crap started happening after I suffered food poisoning abroad and was given a slewwwww of antibiotics. After that I suffered from a bad bout of cystic acne and was prescribed doxycycline, which I think in the end caused all this to go haywire. Over 3-4 months, the scarring started happening, and then by the 5 month mark, I started experiencing twitching all over, and those weird lines on my kneecaps started forming.

But the difference I see between my case and yours is that I have symptoms aside from my skin issues. I have random twitching all over my body, and feel static, prickling bug jumping sensations the most severe in my hair (yes, my hair) and eyebrows. No to mention in the past 3 months, I've noticed that my sweating (esp armpit, yes TMI I know) has been extremely abnormal. I can just be sitting there not doing anything, and will literally feel a trickle of sweat just stream down. It's crazy. Would this be related to something else?

And so from your post overall, I assume to start, you would suggest regular detox baths and oral Glutathione and Phosphatidyl Choline? If this is something I can start immediately, I am willing because I don't want to burn down a ton o money at that lyme literate doctor, whom I am supposed to see next Friday.

Thank you.

EDIT: Hope you can respond with your dosages. I see your mg amounts, but are you just taking 1 of each a day? I have done 2 days so far and have had no "severe detoxing" symptoms as you had experienced. I think for what it's worth, I'm still going to go to that lyme literate doctor since she also treats viral and neuro infections, just to see what she can do for me. However....the double edged sword I have read is that regardless what this doctor may diagnose you with, she will prescribe a ton of antibiotics to help fight off whatever you are infected with. Any thoughts? I'm still deciding whether I should go or not...I have to cancel by essentially tomorrow or else I will be charged with a $500 ish cancellation fee.

Edited by boafriend, 05 July 2015 - 04:24 PM.


#490 Nikea

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 11:27 PM

Hi Boafriend,

Wow, that's a pricey doctor fee, but if you really do have something as serious as Lyme disease then I guess it would be worth it. Do you have all the other symptoms Lyme patients normally report, such as full-body aches and joint pains which go away and then come back in full force? I know it's a very difficult disease to diagnose and treat, so I hope for your sake it isn't Lyme!

But anyway, yes I do remember reading about your symptoms where you said you had random twitching as well as stabbing pains (I think) all over your body, which I do have but I attribute them to my back problems (degenerative discs) as I've had random spasms, twitching and many different types of nerve pain - stabbing, burning, radiating, etc. - all over my body as well but this is due to nerve impingement and started long ago. The constant "bubbling" or prickling sensation in my nose was a new symptom and felt different than the normal nerve pain, and only came about after my reaction to Augmentin in December. I am relieved that I hardly ever feel it anymore, so I do think it had to do with the rolling keratinocytes under my skin trying to heal the cell damage...but if it comes back I will certainly let you know! Do you think those sensations in your hair and eyebrows are nerve-related or do you think the sensations could actually be coming from the rolling keratinocytes under the skin in repair mode?

On that note, since I had started in with all my "internet remedies" only a week before I wrote to you, I should probably give an important update that if you have ANY type of nerve problem whatsoever, that taking oral glutathione is a bad idea. It worked for me the first few days in detoxing my skin and helping it stop the spontaneous scarring, but I read that the amino acids in the glutathione, particularly the glutamic acid and cysteine, are "Excitotoxins" that can really freak out and damage your nerves especially if you already have damaged nerves like me (they are "bound" in the pill form in a protein but apparently a nerve problem can make the glutamate become "free" which then can damage nerves). I think the major "detoxing reactions" I experienced were exactly that, so if I had to do it over again I think I would have rather gone for the skin patches that just tell your body to make more natural glutathione or I would have skipped it altogether and hoped the detox baths and skin products would have done the job. There is glutamic acid in the Revita-Cyte Complex, and the seaweed powder is also high in natural glutamate, so there is a chance of excitotoxicity if you add oral glutathione to the mix, expecially the reduced glutathione, which is supposedly the most potent kind. So be really, really careful and like I said, do lots of research on it especially if you think you might have a nerve problem with the random twitching everywhere.

By the way, to answer your question I only took a single 50mg pill of oral glutathione and 2 of the 420mg phosphatidyl choline per day, for only the first three days. I then began alternating baths with the supplements but had completely stopped after 7 days when I could feel my nerves getting too overexcited. The good news is that even when my nerves got overexcited - tingling and numbness in my extremities - the constant prickling in my nose never came back, so I'm doubly sure it had nothing to do with nerves. I am so happy to hear you had no severe detoxing symptoms from the oral glutathione...did you feel any burning in your skin or scars coming up after you took it?

Oh and about the sweat thing, wow, that's weird. (I just don't see why doctors aren't fascinated with your case and determined to get to the bottom of it...you'd think they'd be obsessed with trying to figure it out!) But strangely, I have had odd sweating symptoms as well...not armpit sweating that streams, but more like whole body cold sweats in the middle of the night where I wake up completely drenched. It's happened a few times since after my surgery which was strange since I can't remember it ever happening before that. So that's interesting that you brought it up. I will try to look into it and see what I can find.

And I really hate to interfere with your own treatment or offer any advice that would cause you to question your better judgment, but if it were me, I would not take any more antibiotics unless I KNEW I had a serious bacterial infection and I KNEW that that particular antibiotic would kill off that infection. And even then I would research alternative natural remedies and try them first. But that's just me.

I pray you will be able to know if spending the money on that new lyme literate doctor is the right way to go...I am so sorry this has been such a never-ending nightmare for you! I have had the same frustrations with unhelpful and expensive dermatologists and doctors and I just don't know what to do anymore myself, which of course is why I'm scouring the forums! Keep me posted on what you decide to do and any successes or disappointments with your self-treatment...I am definitely open to any suggestions you might have! As for me, as of now I am off the glutathione permanently and Revita-Cyte complex temporarily until my nerves return to normal (I'm taking Taurine and aspirin dissolved in hot water to heal the excitotoxicity). I really miss it since I saw such good results in taking away the scars, but the vitamin C serum is still doing a great job. Since my skin feels a bit stronger I have started very lightly applying a baking soda mixed with a small amount of water facial scrub to reduce the scars and pores and unevenness of my skin. I am also trying a few supplements to detoxify my liver (apparently your liver makes glutathione so it's important to keep it healthy). All in all I'm still pretty happy. We'll see if the spontaneous scarring stays stopped!

Edited by Nikea, 05 July 2015 - 11:54 PM.



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