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AMVC spontaneous scarring

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#461 *DarkHeart*

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 08:20 AM

Boafriend,

I have shared this thread on my own thread, but wanted to share it here as well.
http://www.acne.org/...se-large-pores/

If you read the responses, there is a guy who also scarred from 10% glycolic, and one who scarred from 20%. I have not been able to find many people who have experienced this, so it must be rare and I am one of the lucky ones :(

This whole thing sucks big time. We all may have different reasons for our scarring, but I thought I'd share my experience. I would also like to say that I came to the conclusion that it was the AHA in my case almost immediately. It wasn't until recently that I was even able to find anyone else who has the same problem with it, which confirmed my feelings. I had to search for a while before I found any other cases. I feel like I won the shit lottery.

I'm 3 months out from getting my worst scar, and either it looks softer, or else I am just getting used to it. Who freakin knows. I still have hope my scars will heal. I hope all of us will find the answers we need, as well as healing, and will be able to put this behind us.

Edited by Kittee, 01 March 2015 - 08:29 AM.


#462 boafriend

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 08:59 PM

I hate to say it, but I didn't have much luck with the dermatopathologist I saw today. Like the dermatologists I've seen previously, the one I saw today just kept saying "It appears that you just have acne scarring." I schooled him on AMVC and provided print outs to show him....he noted he had heard of it in the past, but has not had experience with any patient with circumstances such as mine (scarring that comes on its own without trauma or acne). It seemed to be something new to him, more or less. At most he could tell me that it was very "plausible" that what I had was AMVC, but from a medical professional's standpoint, it was impossible to make a certain diagnosis because the condition is supposedly so rare (there are no cases to compare it to, no references). He said even if he were to take a biopsy of my facial skin, under a microscope it would just show the presence of scar tissue, which would render the biopsy pointless since acne scars have exactly that - scar tissue - underneath.

 

What plan of action I was given was since "AMVC" is supposedly caused by an inflammatory process within the skin, the doctor prescribed me some sort of anti-inflammatory oral antibiotic in addition to a sulfate/something face wash and a topical gel with the same sulfate ingredient plus benzoyl peroxide. He noted these would calm inflammation, which hopefully would then "prevent" these scars from showing up. It was hard to convince him I didn't want to go the whole oral and topical antibiotic route because I had experienced this with the derms I've seen in the past, who just resort to prescribing me acne-related stuff. I noted I had tried this route before to no results, but he kept insisting saying, "Well, this is different. It's not the same stuff." At one point I could tell the doc was a little frustrated with me since I kept trying to steer away from being prescribed anything. Now the face stuff he prescribed was also because I had noted that aside from my scarring, my cheeks seem almost puffy when I look in a mirror in natural lighting (esp if I look downwards...some areas look puffy and haggardly looking, to put it extremely) - I noted that I never had this appearance in the past. He said I had some mild seborrheic dermatitis (The strange thing is, I have no redness at all though, which is weird).

 

I will go ahead and use the face wash to see if it helps with the odd puffiness I've observed. The oral antibiotic I will not take since I've succumbed to toxic difficiles (antibiotic poisoning in the intestines) in the past. As for the topical, I am extremely against benzoyl peroxide (I'm sure many people here know that it's very bad for the skin). I should have noted this when he was prescribing the topical, but I was just too in the moment trying to get this guy to help me. I'm gonna try calling tomorrow to ask if he has an alternative to the topical.

 

All in all, it was a disappointing visit, and I felt like I was back in 2013, trying to defend myself to derms who do not understand my symptoms. I cannot keep taking time off from my work, so I don't know if I will or will not see another dermatopathologist, because I did have a list of docs aside from this one that I had put together.


Edited by boafriend, 02 March 2015 - 09:07 PM.


#463 mzzyhmd

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 10:09 PM

Hello Boafriend,

 

Can you show me some more pics of your scars. I also have the prickling and twitching sensation under my skin often times. We are pretty much on the same boat I believe. Seriously, what do I do? My prickling sensation comes and goes like I experience it for a microsecond. And yes it's all over my body. Sometimes I feel like it's an involuntary muscle movement. But how come the whole scarring thing is related to that I am dumbfounded as we both are experiencing the same thing. 

 

I have dented, pockmark, ice pick all kinds of scars appearing out of nowhere. Like, I'd see either a deep linear scar or a round scar with missing skin tissue in the morning while at night nothing wasn't there at ALL. It's seriously killing me. I feel like something is eating away my skin inside out. I also have some vaccination type of scar on my chests. They are pretty deep too. I am not sure if you are having them. Mines are large. I have NO idea what's causing this. I wanted to see a derm but now I won't because I can see from their point of view they will find it silly! I am sorry that you haven't found any answer yet despite the fact you've visited numerous docs. I'll look forward to see some pics.

 

http://imgur.com/TE8D40Z

http://imgur.com/d5kXSw4

http://imgur.com/jHxAt0V


Edited by mzzyhmd, 02 March 2015 - 10:20 PM.


#464 boafriend

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Posted 02 March 2015 - 11:46 PM

Hello Boafriend,

 

Can you show me some more pics of your scars. I also have the prickling and twitching sensation under my skin often times. We are pretty much on the same boat I believe. Seriously, what do I do? My prickling sensation comes and goes like I experience it for a microsecond. And yes it's all over my body. Sometimes I feel like it's an involuntary muscle movement. But how come the whole scarring thing is related to that I am dumbfounded as we both are experiencing the same thing. 

 

I have dented, pockmark, ice pick all kinds of scars appearing out of nowhere. Like, I'd see either a deep linear scar or a round scar with missing skin tissue in the morning while at night nothing wasn't there at ALL. It's seriously killing me. I feel like something is eating away my skin inside out. I also have some vaccination type of scar on my chests. They are pretty deep too. I am not sure if you are having them. Mines are large. I have NO idea what's causing this. I wanted to see a derm but now I won't because I can see from their point of view they will find it silly! I am sorry that you haven't found any answer yet despite the fact you've visited numerous docs. I'll look forward to see some pics.

 

http://imgur.com/TE8D40Z

http://imgur.com/d5kXSw4

http://imgur.com/jHxAt0V

It appears that the scars you have (at least from what I can see in the pictures) aren't exactly like what mine are.

 

 

Here are a few brief pictures. I apologize for how horrifying my editing looks - I had to blur out my eyes for privacy:

 

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The lighting is different in both - the first is in overhead lighting and the second is against natural lighting from outside. Nonetheless, the scars are noticeable. Honestly, as noted by the derms I've seen, the scars I have just look like typical acne scarring. Some are weird linear marks, but impossible for me to capture on camera. Note that these pictures make the scarring look a lot milder than it is. They are noticeable in real life.

 

And as for that whole prickling and twitching thing...I don't even know where I can start on that. That has been an entire other disheartening problem for me which I also have found zero medical help with. It's been 2 years, just like with the random scarring.


Edited by boafriend, 02 March 2015 - 11:47 PM.


#465 *DarkHeart*

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 02:49 PM

Funny you should mention inflammation, I also had a theory about inflammation. If it was the glycolic acid, in my case, I had a theory that using it consistently led to my skin being constantly inflamed to a degree which led to scarring. It would make sense because initially my skin looked good, possibly due to micro inflammation. I was taking turmeric curcumin for a while as a natural anti-inflammatory. I take MSM too as it has anti-inflammatory properties and is good for skin. I also want to mention I can't use benzoyl peroxide either as it causes me an allergic reaction (itchy, red swollen face that lasts for days) Anyway, I was reading yesterday about a woman who was the victim of an acid attack and the article said her face continued to scar for up to two years after the attack. So in my case, with the glycolic acid, maybe it's the same idea, though obviously not to that extreme. I possibly damaged my skin with too strong of a product, and the damage was slightly progressive as I noticed things appear even after I stopped using it, and now it seems to have stopped. Also there is laser damage, which can take a couple months after the procedure to appear, and it can continue to appear for a couple years in the form of scars, bad texture, etc. I have also read stories of progressive damage following chemical peels. I don't know. I just don't believe that I have a rare scarring disease. I also don't get the strange skin prickling sensations that you guys mentioned, though. One thing the acid, lasers, peels etc all have in common is they cause inflammation. I suppose whether it is a disorder or a topical causing the inflammation it can have the same effect, random scarring. But this is all just a guess on my part. All I know is the whole thing sucks balls.

#466 boafriend

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Posted 03 March 2015 - 10:21 PM

Yeah Kittee, I agree that as much as I am going through, I am trying to back away from the possibility of me having so-called "AMVC." And this is simply because it is said to be so rare...I don't believe that all of us have this, despite us all more or less experiencing a similar issue. Something inflammatory inside is causing all this, but it's impossible to pinpoint what that something is.



#467 *DarkHeart*

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 01:54 PM

I have talked with and read many stories of people who have laser damage. i joined the ipl and laser damage support board....I know that seems weird but there were people on there with chemical peel or retin-a damage as well, so I figured what the heck, even though I don't have laser damage I REALLY needed the support from people who understand the devestation of sudden skin deterioration. Basically, they all say that you have to get the inflammation under control somehow, in order to stop your skin from scarring. it seems everyone who had damage, be it from acid, a retinoid/retinol, or laser would get spontaneous scarring even after the damage had been done, so maybe yours is caused by using a retinoid or other harsh product in the past? It is possible, even if it didn't show up until after you stopped using it. A lot of the folks there recommend a product called Psoria-gold, a topical anti-inflammatory that contains turmeric curcumin. I personally never bought it because it's expensive, but did take turmeric curcumin internally. I ran out and need to get more. Well who knows, we all are probably having inflammatroy responses in our skin for different reasons. I still attribute mine to the harsh product. Doing caveman regimen still....hoping it helps in the long run.



#468 mzzyhmd

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Posted 07 March 2015 - 01:19 PM

You're right Kittee. I also think there's some kind of under the skin inflammation going on and I think it's because of yeast. Any of you considered candida overgrowth? I self-tested mine with the spit test method and yes it seems to me i am having candida overgrowth in my system. we aren't showing any other symptoms because our immune system isnt compromised. but nonetheless our system is loaded with these fungus :( I'll start my candida diet and diatomaceous earth (food grade). let's see how it goes 



#469 *DarkHeart*

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Posted 08 March 2015 - 07:46 AM

mzzyhmd, yes! That is for sure possilble and I did not even think about that. Don't even get me started on the evils of candida. A year and half to two years ago my husband was getting this horrible rash on his hands, they would swell and crack and itch like crazy. He had to leave work early one day for it, it was bad. He narrowed it down to diet, and when he eats anything bad (that could cause candida overgrowth, high carb junk food) his rash would get worse. It would also get worse if he took too many anti fungals because it would cause candida die-off (like a detox) that would intensify the symptoms. He never saw a doctor about it but has always been convinced it was candida overgrowth. He had gotten this rash on other areas too, previously, and I remember I told him maybe it was because he drank too much beer (yeast!), and when he would cut back on beer it would clear up better. I know that is sort of unrelated because my husband doesn't get scars like us, but he did have major skin problems and inflammation due to candida. I know Dr. Atkins outlines in his book things to avoid in your diet if you have candida problems, so I'll have to reread that section and give it a try. Over all though low carb/keto is best. I think I mention I eat low carb in my other thread, but I don't follow the candida diet. At the time I got my first (and worst) scar though was the day after Thanksgiving (I'll never forget...sigh), when I was eating plenty of high carb junk and desserts. Maybe that contributed to it. Maybe it made my inflammation from the AHA worse? It's all so confusing :( It helps to have you guys to talk to, though, so we can share our ideas. Even if it isn't the reason for our scars, it is still good to get a candida overgrowth under control.




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