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CARBOHYDRATES MANS WORST ENEMEY

low carb low glycemic low-glycemic menopause

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#1 Could Be Worse

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 06:24 AM

I believe carbohydrates were not intended for man to consume and all these food pyramids are flawed just so we buy more of farmers products. After all the food pyramids were created by agriculture community. Anyway as i was searching around i came across this and i believe it can help many acne sufferers.
Introduction

There are many conditions in Western industrialised societies today that were unheard of, or at least very rare, just a century ago. The same conditions are still unheard of in primitive peoples who do not have the 'benefits' of our knowledge. There is a very good reason for this: They eat what Nature intended; we don't. The diseases caused by our incorrect and unnatural diets are those featured on these pages.
Dietary causes of acne vulgaris:

Refined sugar- and starch-rich foods; cereal grains, processed carbohydrate-rich products.


Introduction

There is no classic acne case. Those who suffer from acne are all of different ages, different backgrounds and different lifestyles. You can have adult acne as well as in childhood, and adult acne is even more frustrating. What they share is their frustration with the condition of their skin. They all want to know why this is happening to them.

Case history

'I first developed acne aged about 12 - a year or so after the doctors put me on a low fat diet. It was not unexpected that I would have acne, my father had it badly; my sister, who is 5 years older, also suffered. I was determined not to let it scar me as it had my sister and father, so my doctor was supportive and helpful. Although my GP told me it would probably resolve when I finished puberty, I started with tetracycline and calamine, and went via ultra-violet light treatments, ending up using retin-A lotion, prescribed by the hospital dermatologists. Nothing helped. When I was 19 the university GP refused to prescribe, putting me on the pill instead. No Change. I was told that, by the time I was 25 my skin would be clear. It wasn't. I was also "recommended" to have a baby, as this would "most likely" clear my skin. I decided not to try that one! At 30 I was told that, when I went through menopause, my skin would improve wonderfully - what a thing to look forwards to!

'To tell you about the acne itself - I had constant blackheads and disgusting pus-filled angry red spots on my face, back and shoulders. I was impeccably clean ? washing my face several times daily and using alcohol impregnated wipes in between and I bathed twice daily as well. I was unable to wear a blouse without a jumper or jacket covering it, as it would be covered in blood and pus if I leaned back against a chair. Bras were always stained. I never wore sleeveless tops, as the spots extended down to a few inches above my elbows. I was a keen swimmer, but the spots made me too self-conscious to swim. Later, when I took up scuba diving, I could wear a t-shirt over the swimming costume in the pool, and a wet suit when in open water. I loathed having my photograph taken.

'When I started a low-carb diet, 4 years (- 10 days!) ago, I had no expectations of any improvement in my skin, but a few months later, a very good friend looked at me and said my skin was looking much better. I hadn't noticed! I tended not to look in a mirror - too many spots again! However, I braced myself, and saw something I had not seen in my adult life. Smooth, unblemished skin! My face was not spotty at all, and there were no blackheads to be seen. My back still had a few bumps, blemishes, and old scars, as did my shoulders, but my face had escaped scarring. My 46-year-old skin is smooth and possibly my best feature!

'I now find that my acne is absent, as long as I stay below around 50g carbs daily. I "cheated" for 48 hours at Christmas (about 150g total!), and within a week my skin had erupted, and it took until the end of January for it to calm down again. This happens every time I indulge - a visible reminder to stay low carb!'

In westernised societies, acne vulgaris is a universal skin disease. Acne afflicts 79% to 95% of the adolescent population. Indeed, acne during teenage years is now so widespread it is considered 'normal' in developed nations. But acne also continues into adulthood: adult acne vulgaris affects 45% to 54% of adults older than 25 years and in up to 12% of men and 3% of women adult acne vulgaris persists until well into middle age. In adolescence, acne vulgaris may be considered a nuisance; adult acne vulgaris is considerably less well tolerated.

However, it is noticeable that nations who do not consume a 'western diet' do not suffer from acne vulgaris. A study by Dr Loren Cordain and his team looked at the prevalence of acne vulgaris in two non-westernised populations: the Kitavan Islanders of Papua New Guinea and the Ach? hunter-gatherers of Paraguay.[1]

Of 1200 Kitavan subjects examined, including 300 aged between 15 and 25 years, Cordain and colleagues didn't find one case of acne vulgaris. It was the same with the Ach? subjects they examined for nearly two-and-a-half years: Not one case of acne vulgaris was found.

Cordain and his team attribute the absence of acne vulgaris in these peoples to their diets. They say 'The astonishing difference in acne incidence rates between non-westernized and fully modernized societies cannot be solely attributed to genetic differences among populations but likely results from differing environmental factors. Identification of these factors may be useful in the treatment of acne vulgaris in Western populations.'

The significant dietary difference they highlighted was that where western children ate refined sugar- and starch-rich foods, both the study groups ate hardly any cereals or refined sugars. The Kitavans ate primarily fish, fruit, tubers and coconut, and the Ach? diet consisted mostly of wild game, the root vegetable sweet manioc, peanuts, maize and rice.

This was confirmed in 2008 with a study which looked at the effect of a low-GI diet on acne.[2] The researchers weere looking at the composition of skin oil, and how it is affected by diet: The effect of a low glycemic load diet on acne vulgaris and the fatty acid composition of skin surface triglycerides.

What the researchers wanted to know was how the oil composition would be changed by a low-glycemic diet. They also measured 'sebum outflow', or how much oil the skin was producing on the different diets. A low glycemic diet, although not as low as is recommended on this website, was given to 31 subjects, for 12 weeks, and compared to those eating a normal high-glycemic diet.

Here's what they found: the subjects on the low-glycemic diet had a lower amount of mono-unsaturated fatty acids compared to saturated fatty acids in the oil on their skin, than did the subjects eating the high-glycemic diet.

More importantly, their skin produced less oil, and they had fewer zits!
So please give it a go

Edited by Could Be Worse, 22 December 2009 - 06:26 AM.


#2 max powers

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 08:36 AM

Agree smile.gif

#3 AdamDolce10

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 11:05 AM

Not agree sad.gif

Fair enough it worked for you but my acne cleared when i started eating more whole grain complex carbs.
They might be your enemy but not man kind!
smile.gif

#4 alternativista

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 11:39 AM

Oh, God. I hope we aren't going to swing to this extreme again. There is a big difference between diet filled with sugar and refined carbs and a diet filled with real, nutrient dense carbohydrates which is how we were meant to eat. And the examples of acne free and healthy people you cite are all about people eating such carbs.

So no, carbs are not man's worst enemy and the statement 'carbohydrates were not intended for man to consume' is completely false. Now the factual part of your post, the studies and observations by Cordain and the RMIT researchers, is common knowledge here and a low to moderate GI diet is followed by many with success.

Edited by alternativista, 22 December 2009 - 12:06 PM.


#5 gMARIAs

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 01:34 PM

Hmm...you do realize that vegetables and fruits do contain a degree of carbohydrates, yes?



#6 Jërëmÿnör

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 03:06 PM

I hurd fibur helpz u 2 poops

#7 Could Be Worse

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 08:14 PM

Yes they do contain a degree of carbohydrates , but when you are told to consume large amounts of carbohydrates every day say 6-11 servings as some food pyramids tell us to do. Thats not what nature intended us to eat. For instance look at the Eskimos , there diet consists of just protein and fat and they are very healthy and you dont see there teenagers with acne.

#8 Jërëmÿnör

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 10:03 PM

Just out of curiosity, how many Eskimo teenagers have you encountered?

#9 venam

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 10:48 PM

There is one big fallacy in this thread. It is titled "CARBOHYDRATES MANS WORST ENEMEY" and as evidence it uses a study by Cordain where two acne free population consume over 50% of their diet as carbohydrates (69% for Kitava) yet they don't have acne (I hope you can notice the fallacy). Now look at the TYPE of carbohydrate, is not even related to GI (as most tubers are medium or high GI, not low), just the source. They are using mostly grain free sources (tubers), and in the case of Ache they are consuming gluten free grains; these primitive tribes do not consume grains high in lectins and other anti-nutrients. They also don't consume dairy, have a proper O3:O6 balance, and have diets high in fat soluble vitamins.

Not saying you need carbs to have a healthy diet, but that having carbs is not detrimental (one only needs to read the work of Weston A. Price to know that).

#10 uncle buck

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Posted 22 December 2009 - 10:54 PM

QUOTE (Jërëmÿn @ Dec 22 2009, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just out of curiosity, how many Eskimo teenagers have you encountered?

Personally, I can't escape them, they are everywhere. It's always Eskimo this Eskimo that, they are taking all our jobs I tells ya, they even have their own sections in clothing stores now. The other night I was refused entry to a club because I wasn't Eskimo enough. Darn Eskimos and their fish and their jackets and their thing things and the blarehjgegehg

#11 CharlesV

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 03:54 AM

Eskimos live in an extreme climate and consume an extreme diet. Even before the introduction of the SAD diet into their society, they lived shorter than most tribes and had plenty of health issues. Stop using them as an example of good health and healthy living.

#12 Could Be Worse

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 05:32 AM

They lived shorter not because of their diet, but because of there health care system and environment. Also humans do not need their diet to mainly consist of carbohydrates, what we need is protein and fat, although these have been given a bad name for many years it is not the case.

#13 john1234

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 01:04 PM

No carbs aren't the enemy at all. Traditional Japanese food is composed of white rice. And yet the Japanese have the greatest longevity and have low incidence of acne -- that is, until they began to eat western food.

The fact is, we are adaptable as humans. We can thrive on many diets, with different macronutrient ratios. Getting nutrients (vitamin c, b-complex, zinc, etc) is only important to an extent.

The bottom line is this.

1) lower your calorie intake. We simply eat too much. You may think you're skinny, but you don't know how much visceral fat you have. This fat releases the inflammatory signal molecules (cytokines) that induce inflammation. Most people don't know how fat they are.

It doesn't matter if you eat a lot of protein, carbs, or whatever. The bottom line is to eat less and understand satiety. Never stuff yourself.

The one thing in common with all the tribes around the world is their relatively low caloric intake and low bmi. Check out the those values for the okinawans, and you'll get an idea.

2) get sun exposure.

Extremes are only created because of stupid human nutritionism, in which we isolate single factors to determine results. Carbs are only the enemy when you eat them in high amounts and you eat too much. Same goes with protein and fats.

Don't make life so difficult. Please don't go down the path that I went down, with all that low-fat or low carb BS. You can go down a more balanced path, as long as you start cutting down your caloric intake, exercising, and getting some sun to reverse insulin resistance and calm inflammation.

You know why people get better when they eat veggies? Nutrients in part. But the fact is, veggies are low calorie foods and full of fiber. They stuff you, and lower your daily caloric intake.

Edited by john1234, 23 December 2009 - 01:08 PM.


#14 databased

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 01:21 PM

QUOTE (Could Be Worse @ Dec 22 2009, 06:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I believe carbohydrates were not intended for man to consume

And yet the Trobriand Islanders consume massive amounts of carbs and are 100% acne-free. Not a single lesion among man, woman, or hormones-a-ragin' teenager. Really, is any other data needed to completely refute such an extreme statement?

QUOTE
This was confirmed in 2008 with a study which looked at the effect of a low-GI diet on acne.

And yet, none of the low-GI diet studies every produced anything like the 100% acne-free condition of the Trobriand Islanders. Hmmm, must be something not quite right with that low-GI theory.

QUOTE
More importantly, their skin produced less oil, and they had fewer zits!

Let the chorus sing, "Correlation is Not Causation". Still no miracle cure, still no results anything like the Trobriand Islanders.

Study after study has shown that no-carb and even truly low-carb diets cannot be maintained by any but a tiny, tiny percentage of subjects studied. Why set people up to fail by asking them to perform an experiment they cannot sustain, and that is based on a theory that clearly has failed to nail down the precise biochemical mechanism of acne?

Did the Eskimos used to eat no-carb diets? Perhaps, but they also use to live in a world where the oceans were not polluted. And they used to get enough exercise to put an Olympic training program to shame. And who knows what-all else was completely different in their diet/behavior/environment that could be key in explaining an absence of acne? Unless you plan to eliminate your use of electricity, fight polar bears for the privilege of eating raw fish, and spend your days in exhausting manual labor, to cut back on crackers and bread and imagine that should give you the skin of a 1700's Eskimo is the height of absurdity.

QUOTE
lower your calorie intake. We simply eat too much.

And yet the Trobriand Islanders (as Cordain points out) are not the least bit calorie restricted. They eat all they want, all the time. Another idea that doesn't match the data.

QUOTE
get sun exposure.

And yet those old timey acne-free Eskimos got zero sun exposure for months at a time.

"There is always an easy solution to every human problem--neat, plausible, and wrong."

#15 john1234

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 02:02 PM

I'm curious, do you know how many calories did the trobriand islanders eat? What is their average bmi? I'm not even talking about calorie restriction, though. I do not think eat less means calorie restriction for most americans. It simply means eating the right amount, which most americans don't do. Go to fridays or chilis to find that out.

Edit: A quick search revealed that the bmi of the papau new guinea people (n=108) is 18.8. Based on the bmi guidelines, that's almost underweight, barely normal.

"all they want, all the time" is relative. When you don't have unlimited food, it could mean that you eat only a little compared to american standards. If you have unlimited food, then it could mean 5 burgers and 10 sodas every day.


QUOTE (databased @ Dec 23 2009, 02:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Could Be Worse @ Dec 22 2009, 06:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I believe carbohydrates were not intended for man to consume

And yet the Trobriand Islanders consume massive amounts of carbs and are 100% acne-free. Not a single lesion among man, woman, or hormones-a-ragin' teenager. Really, is any other data needed to completely refute such an extreme statement?

QUOTE
This was confirmed in 2008 with a study which looked at the effect of a low-GI diet on acne.

And yet, none of the low-GI diet studies every produced anything like the 100% acne-free condition of the Trobriand Islanders. Hmmm, must be something not quite right with that low-GI theory.

QUOTE
More importantly, their skin produced less oil, and they had fewer zits!

Let the chorus sing, "Correlation is Not Causation". Still no miracle cure, still no results anything like the Trobriand Islanders.

Study after study has shown that no-carb and even truly low-carb diets cannot be maintained by any but a tiny, tiny percentage of subjects studied. Why set people up to fail by asking them to perform an experiment they cannot sustain, and that is based on a theory that clearly has failed to nail down the precise biochemical mechanism of acne?

Did the Eskimos used to eat no-carb diets? Perhaps, but they also use to live in a world where the oceans were not polluted. And they used to get enough exercise to put an Olympic training program to shame. And who knows what-all else was completely different in their diet/behavior/environment that could be key in explaining an absence of acne? Unless you plan to eliminate your use of electricity, fight polar bears for the privilege of eating raw fish, and spend your days in exhausting manual labor, to cut back on crackers and bread and imagine that should give you the skin of a 1700's Eskimo is the height of absurdity.

QUOTE
lower your calorie intake. We simply eat too much.

And yet the Trobriand Islanders (as Cordain points out) are not the least bit calorie restricted. They eat all they want, all the time. Another idea that doesn't match the data.

QUOTE
get sun exposure.

And yet those old timey acne-free Eskimos got zero sun exposure for months at a time.

"There is always an easy solution to every human problem--neat, plausible, and wrong."

Edited by john1234, 23 December 2009 - 02:09 PM.


#16 john1234

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 02:07 PM

.

Edited by john1234, 23 December 2009 - 02:09 PM.


#17 venam

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 02:29 PM

john, if you look at some of the studies related to Kitava you can see they did not caloric-restrict. Is a matter of wording, they didn't eat a low caloric diet (restriction) but they did not overeat, so you're right, that would help many in America but I don't think it will eliminate acne. Myself, I am 5'7, 134 lbs, and have a 4 pack (not much visceral fat, I'm a racquetball player). I cannot be over 10-12% bf, yet, I still have acne (although it got much better when I started eating right (for me that's medium carb from tubers and fruits, highish fat), which got to this weight/shape).

#18 john1234

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 02:51 PM

I should clarify myself. I do not believe that we should restrict our calories like those CRON people, who weight out each food item, count each calorie, and make sure we don't go above a thresh-hold.

But for most americans, restricting calories is simply eating the right amount. If I remember right, the average bmi of okinawans is 18 also, like the trobiand tribe.

What I'm trying to get at is this. Carbs are not man's worst enemy. And I don't believe any particular eating style will help you lose your acne, in particular. There are so many people around the world, eating and adapting to different diets. Some high in meat. Some high in fat. Some high in starches. Stop blaming the macronutrients

At the end of the day, they all don't have acne. What do they all have in common? So far, the only thing I can gather is they aren't over-weight; in fact, they might be closer to underweight by american standards. They don't overconsume calories. They exercise. And they get sun exposure. Many of the traditions also have eating principles

Eat till you are 80 percent full? 1/3 air 1/3 water 1/3 food? All these principles encourage decrease in calories and not overconsumption.

I'm not satisfied to say that my friend, who drinks 4 mountain dews a day and never gets a pimple, has good genes. I say that she has a good intuition of calories, energy intake. She never overeats.

Does life really have to be so hard that we keep on juggling right foods and bad foods? correct macronutrients ratios and getting proper nutrient intake? There has to be some common thread. We should stop focusing on the particulars and try to focus on the similarities. And carb intake is certainly not one of those similarities.

I know I"m just ranting and rambling, but I refuse to believe that life has to be so difficult and that eating should take such a centerpiece in our lives.


Note: I'm basically regurgitating what I gathered form Danny's posts. So if anyone is interested, check out his posts. I think he is able to synthesize the essentials and his posts clear many misconceptions. Eating shouldn't be difficult if we follow certain principles.

Here's his post from a few months ago:


Drink water (don't allow yourself to become dehydrated)

Do not allow your fat percentage to go above 12% for males and 19% for females

Do not allow your BMI to go above 21 (as long as the fat percentage is high as well)

If you are above these values, focus on losing fat first of all

Exercise, don't allow yourself to live a sedentary existence

At least two times a week do resistance training to maintain your muscles and other benefits

Balance your calories, calories are king

Find out your "caloric range" for maintenance and add and substract consciously for your goals

Sleep properly (at least 7 hours but more important is going to sleep at the same time as much as possible and avoid spending more time in bed in the week-end, most people don't feel the need to stay in bed because they're tired, but because they're understimulated)

Don't be afraid to go without food when you don't feel like eating or are sick (short-term fasting is still one of the most instinctive and natural cures)

Don't think about food all the time (according to a survey people waste time making 200 food related decision a day. As someone said: if people had more exciting lives they would need to obsess about food)

Don't go to extremes (while the major changes caused by diet change are due to calories, food type is still a major problem but only as long as a person goes to extreme. Eating only chocolate bars leads to overcomsuption of carbs and little proteins and fat. Eating only bacon, grease, mayo leads to overconsumption of fats and little carbs and protein. And although it's controversial; I don't think given the scientific evidence anyone needs to have an 80% fat diet with 15% protein and 5% carbs. A intuitive balance is the better approach)

Avoid, but without obsession, the known toxic substances (trans fats, nitrates, nitrites, high fructose corn syrup and few others)

Still eat foods rich in vitamins and minerals and nutrient dense foods (grains, meats, eggs, fish whatever) but DON'T fear "less than perfect" foods (lasagna, hamburgers, fancy recipes, fatty sauces, interesting cakes or even pure junk food)

KISS with nutrition (as long as calories, protein, EFA, vitamins, minerals basic requirements are met, all the rest will have very little impact or not at all, including the source of your nutrients)

Stay young (youth is not based on chronological age but a state of mind and body, youth is curiosity, sense of humour, flexibility, awe for living, excitement, creativity, immagination which an individual of young chronological age might not possess)

Stay focused, calm and relaxed (meditate, laugh, hug your friends, play, visit places you love, take hot bath, maintain a contact with nature, walk in woods, listen to music that emotion you ... in other words: take maximum care of your affective, creative, contemplative, educative, emotional, "spiritual" needs)



QUOTE (venam @ Dec 23 2009, 02:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
john, if you look at some of the studies related to Kitava you can see they did not caloric-restrict. Is a matter of wording, they didn't eat a low caloric diet (restriction) but they did not overeat, so you're right, that would help many in America but I don't think it will eliminate acne. Myself, I am 5'7, 134 lbs, and have a 4 pack (not much visceral fat, I'm a racquetball player). I cannot be over 10-12% bf, yet, I still have acne (although it got much better when I started eating right (for me that's medium carb from tubers and fruits, highish fat), which got to this weight/shape).

Edited by john1234, 23 December 2009 - 03:05 PM.


#19 alternativista

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 04:24 PM

QUOTE (databased @ Dec 23 2009, 01:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Did the Eskimos used to eat no-carb diets? Perhaps, but they also use to live in a world where the oceans were not polluted. And they used to get enough exercise to put an Olympic training program to shame. And who knows what-all else was completely different in their diet/behavior/environment that could be key in explaining an absence of acne? Unless you plan to eliminate your use of electricity, fight polar bears for the privilege of eating raw fish, and spend your days in exhausting manual labor, to cut back on crackers and bread and imagine that should give you the skin of a 1700's Eskimo is the height of absurdity.


They also eat raw seals and walrus and such. The raw meat and fish are where they get many of the essential nutrients to make up for the lack of plant foods.

On the other hand, an archeology teacher in an obnoxious lecture said that Inuit women didn't do all that exhausting work. They had to sit around the igloo with the babies and chew everyone's boots to keep them soft. They couldn't help with the hunt or other work and risk chipping a tooth which would tear boots. I've never bothered to verify that story though.

#20 Deadmau5

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Posted 23 December 2009 - 04:25 PM

FALSEEEE