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Chinese doctors acknowledge liver stones


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#1 Denise2

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Posted 26 June 2004 - 01:42 PM

http://www.wjgnet.co...-9327/3/131.asp

I wonder why Chinese doctors know about intrahepatic cholesterol stones and American doctors don't? :think:

#2 jc

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Posted 26 June 2004 - 11:34 PM

That's a good question. :think:

#3 Nico

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 12:29 AM

Because North American doctors don't want you to be healthy, cause if you were, you wouldn't go see them and you wouldn't give all your money to them.

#4 jc

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 12:30 AM

It isn't that bad Nico. rolleyes.gif

#5 Denise2

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 12:48 PM

According to that link, 1/3 of chinese people (who eat much more healthy than the average American) have these stones, and they mention that they find them in autopsies.

Ofcourse most people don't get autopsied, but besides Curezone, there is another place that has a picture of an autopsied liver with a stone blocking the bile duct.

http://www-medlib.me...L/LIVER022.html

So the next time your doctor tells you that livers don't have cholesterol stones say: :naughty: :liar: :snooty:

The truth is out there Scully, ya just gotta look in the right places.... :ph34r: :think:

#6 jc

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 12:58 PM

Sure Mulder. You can't refute the science!

#7 Monkeypie

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 01:12 PM

QUOTE(Nico @ Jun 27 2004, 03:16 AM)
Because North American doctors don't want you to be healthy, cause if you were, you wouldn't go see them and you wouldn't give all your money to them.

Basically.


Yeah.

#8 BenKweller

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 01:31 PM

... No.

Chinese doctors will also recommend putting needles into your ass to cure a headache. You all have to get over that you have acne; doctors aren't at fault despite how easy it is to share the blame with them.

#9 Denise2

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 03:00 PM

um.....most of us don't have acne anymore since we ignored our doctors' advice......

#10 Catwoman

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 03:08 PM

QUOTE(BenKweller @ Jun 27 2004, 03:18 PM)
... No.

Chinese doctors will also recommend putting needles into your ass to cure a headache. You all have to get over that you have acne; doctors aren't at fault despite how easy it is to share the blame with them.

Haha, believe it or not, accunpuncture works for some things. I've gone to see an accunpuncturist for a problematic ankle and it helps.

#11 jc

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 10:07 PM

Eastern Medicine just gets no respect in the almight U.S. of A. rolleyes.gif

#12 Monkeypie

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Posted 27 June 2004 - 10:49 PM

^^ Well, when everyone gets sick and dies because all the doctors are in court being sued, everyone will suddenly see the light. Just wait a few years.

#13 SweetJade1980

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 01:16 PM

Hmm...this weekend I happend to catch the last minutes of movie that was about a boy with Siezures ("First Do No Harm" ???). The doctors were frowning (because the evidence was anectodal) on the mother taking him off his meds (that didnt work) and flying him down to Jons Hopkins to follow the Ketogenic Diet.

As soon as I heard that I thought about low carbing and how reducing gluten was found to help those that had siezures, ADHD, and Autism too. Although this diet is based around 90% fat, because apparently there is something about carbohydrates that lowers the ketones (comes from burning fat for energy) which seem to play some role (they still don't know) in siezures. Some of the actors in the movie were former siezures patients and after 2 - 4 years of following the Ketogenic Diet, they were able to be siezure and usually medication free for 10, 20, or more years after on a regular diet!

I recently found out that through the use of accupuncture acne and even hirsutism has been corrected! Wow, that means a lot to me for that's the other side of the coin I must deal with thanks to my hormonal imbalance. Unfortunately my former hospital (military) actually had an Alternative Therapies dept that actually performed accupunture for 3 years now, but my regular doctors never told me about it. Now I can't go there and get free healthcare because I'm too old =( Although, what's good about this dept is that they test out the effectiveness of the latest alternative therapies as well, so they aren't just following anecdotal evidence.

The thing that I try to get across to most of you is that if you have a (unknowingly) serious hormonal imbalance, the LONGER you wait to find the right answers, the more out of control your hormones will get. I tried since the age of 11 to get answers and my doctors didn't put me on meds then. I tried at the age of 13 to see an endocrinologist but my hospital wouldn't run one the essential tests for my dx because they were from an outside doctor! A lot things that happened for me positively with future doctors and endocrinologists were flukes. Just like the mother in that movie, she said that she's still angry at those doctors for not listening, from keeping such simple information from her, and wasting her sons time. That's something that I occassionally battle with too.

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 03:33 PM

QUOTE(SweetJade1980 @ Jun 28 2004, 01:03 PM)
Hmm...this weekend I happend to catch the last minutes of movie that was about a boy with Siezures ("First Do No Harm" ???).  The doctors were frowning (because the evidence was anectodal) on the mother taking him off his meds (that didnt work) and flying him down to Jons Hopkins to follow the Ketogenic Diet.

As soon as I heard that I thought about low carbing and how reducing gluten was found to help those that had siezures, ADHD, and Autism too.  Although this diet is based around 90% fat, because apparently there is something about carbohydrates that lowers the ketones (comes from burning fat for energy) which seem to play some role (they still don't know) in siezures.  Some of the actors in the movie were former siezures patients and after 2 - 4 years of following the Ketogenic Diet, they were able to be siezure and usually medication free for 10, 20, or more years after on a regular diet!

I recently found out that through the use of accupuncture acne and even hirsutism has been corrected!  Wow, that means a lot to me for that's the other side of the coin I must deal with thanks to my hormonal imbalance.  Unfortunately my former hospital (military) actually had an Alternative Therapies dept that actually performed accupunture for 3 years now, but my regular doctors never told me about it.  Now I can't go there and get free healthcare because I'm too old  =( Although, what's good about this dept is that they test out the effectiveness of the latest alternative therapies as well, so they aren't just following anecdotal evidence.

The thing that I try to get across to most of you is that if you have a (unknowingly) serious hormonal imbalance, the LONGER you wait to find the right answers, the more out of control your hormones will get.  I tried since the age of 11 to get answers and my doctors didn't put me on meds then.  I tried at the age of 13 to see an endocrinologist but my hospital wouldn't run one the essential tests for my dx because they were from an outside doctor!  A lot things that happened for me positively with future doctors and endocrinologists were flukes.  Just like the mother in that movie, she said that she's still angry at those doctors for not listening, from keeping such simple information from her, and wasting her sons time.  That's something that I occassionally battle with too.

sweetjade...
Are you still taking spironolactone?
I tried sooo many natural ways of getting rid of my acne... although I did not do the Hulda Clark liver flushes. Spironolactone combined with the pill is the only thing that works for me that I have tried... which is ironic because in so many ways I am soooo anti medication (Denise, you understand), but I am so afraid of stopping the meds I'm on now and being bombarded with nasty cysts while I take the slow route of healing again with the liver flushes.
I guess it's just a decision I have to come to in my own time!
Denise...
Do you think that if I take one week out of the month and NOT take medication (which I do, during my time of month) and flush during that time, and then go back on the meds until the following month, I will be fighting a losing battle with the flushes?
It's the only way I can think of to hop on this bandwagon that may be the answer without risking too many new scars.

#15 Denise2

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 05:48 PM

Hey Scorpion Vixen...I think that would be good but please please please EVERYONE.....please understand that doing flushing without bowel cleansing is almost pointless. If you have stones, you also probably have a congested colon as well. When you flush your liver and do NOTHING to push the toxins out, you are setting yourself up for breakouts.

I've repeated this on the boards so many times, and people do not understand that I made this mistake and got terrible breakouts after my third flush. The toxins and stones get trapped in the small intestine and colon, where they get recirculated through the liver and the toxins go through the skin. This is unbelievably important.

I recall that Maya said that she got a few breakouts also but when she got her colonic, they went away.

It's unbelievably common to get breakouts when you flush *IF* you don't do an enema or get a colonic, and take a lot of fiber while you are passing stones.

Please everyone....this is unbelievably important. Most people don't understand how important this step is until AFTER they get bad breakouts. Bowel cleansing is just as important as liverflushing.

Liverflushing most certainly regulates hormones, but if you have a congested colon, then you will still get breakouts, even if you are stone free. It's a huge piece of the puzzle, but not the whole thing.

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 06:17 PM

QUOTE(Denise2 @ Jun 28 2004, 05:35 PM)
Hey Scorpion Vixen...I think that would be good but please please please EVERYONE.....please understand that doing flushing without bowel cleansing is almost pointless.  If you have stones, you also probably have a congested colon as well.  When you flush your liver and do NOTHING to push the toxins out, you are setting yourself up for breakouts.

I've repeated this on the boards so many times, and people do not understand that I made this mistake and got terrible breakouts after my third flush. The toxins and stones get trapped in the small intestine and colon, where they get recirculated through the liver and the toxins go through the skin.  This is unbelievably important. 

I recall that Maya said that she got a few breakouts also but when she got her colonic, they went away.

It's unbelievably common to get breakouts when you flush *IF* you don't do an enema or get a colonic, and take a lot of fiber while you are passing stones.

Please everyone....this is unbelievably important.  Most people don't understand how important this step is until AFTER they get bad breakouts.  Bowel cleansing is just as important as liverflushing.

Liverflushing most certainly regulates hormones, but if you have a congested colon, then you will still get breakouts, even if you are stone free.  It's a huge piece of the puzzle, but not the whole thing.

Thanks for the great reply Denise...
Yes I know all about bowel cleansing and enemas... :lol: I'll be reading up on this more when it comes time for me to get in the swing of this. I may have a question or two for you at that time but I don't want you to have to repeat yourself for my sake girlie! biggrin.gif
Thanks again!

#17 SweetJade1980

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Posted 28 June 2004 - 11:37 PM

Scorpion,
Most definately keep taking the spiro, especially while doing the liver flushes. Eventually you will have to decide if you want to decrease your dose or remove it entirely though. Heed Denise's warnings, because I did my first flush and had NO breakouts, but I realize now that it was due to being protected by Avandia and Spiro (so keep using it). This time around, I had been off of Spiro for 6 or 7 months and had no protection, despite my success with dietary changes, I broke out with cysts for nearly a month!!!

Also, do you only have acne or do you also have a level of hirsutism or androgenic alopecia? I ask because if you have hair growth issues you will need to find a suitable replacement, as in DHT inhibitor or Anti-androgen, that is natural if you plan on going off the Spiro. Otherwise, within a matter of months, the hair that fell out and new hair that was being prevented from growing, will start to grow in places you really won't like. =/ That's what I'm experiencing now, but I've found a natural regimen that seems very hopeful and I'll be starting it as soon as my final package arrives.

Take Care

P.S. You may want to stop taking it for 1 week prior though. It takes 2 - 3 months to go out of your system, so it's not a problem if you don't take it for a week. Heck, I used to take Spiro sporadically after awhile. It wasn't until I completely stopped for several months that I started to see some more unwanted hair growth.

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Posted 29 June 2004 - 01:18 AM

QUOTE(SweetJade1980 @ Jun 28 2004, 11:24 PM)
Scorpion,
  Most definately keep taking the spiro, especially while doing the liver flushes.  Eventually you will have to decide if you want to decrease your dose or remove it entirely though.  Heed Denise's warnings, because I did my first flush and had NO breakouts, but I realize now that it was due to being protected by Avandia and Spiro (so keep using it).  This time around, I had been off of Spiro for 6 or 7 months and had no protection, despite my success with dietary changes, I broke out with cysts for nearly a month!!! 

Also, do you only have acne or do you also have a level of hirsutism or androgenic alopecia?  I ask because if you have hair growth issues you will need to find a suitable replacement, as in DHT inhibitor or Anti-androgen, that is natural if you plan on going off the Spiro.  Otherwise, within a matter of months, the hair that fell out and new hair that was being prevented from growing, will start to grow in places you really won't like.  =/  That's what I'm experiencing now, but I've found a natural regimen that seems very hopeful and I'll be starting it as soon as my final package arrives.

Take Care

P.S.  You may want to stop taking it for 1 week prior though.  It takes 2 - 3 months to go out of your system, so it's not a problem if you don't take it for a week.  Heck, I used to take Spiro sporadically after awhile.  It wasn't until I completely stopped for several months that I started to see some more unwanted hair growth.

SweetJade,
Thanks for taking the time to give me this response. It is very helpful. I have been on Spironolactone for nearly a year, for hormonal acne. I am not taking it for hair growth issues.
Let us know how the new regimen works for you!
You take care also! biggrin.gif