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Icepick Treatment using TCA (Cross Method)

icepick ice pick subcision tca

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#41 stefany

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Posted 13 March 2003 - 05:16 PM

Just got a voicemail from my plastic surgeon's office--the Doctor said he would be happy to perform the CROSS method on my acne scars. Right now I am waiting for them to call back and discuss prices. This is great!

#42 stefany

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Posted 13 March 2003 - 06:22 PM

My day is even better now! A Facial Plastic Surgeon just e-mailed me and said he would be agreeable to doing the CROSS method at no cost, as long as I except the risk to his lack of experience. I will be the first person he performs this method on. How exciting! I will keep everyone posted.

#43 Anna

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 03:56 PM

Well All,
I just had my appointment with the derm. I was very impressed with her, Barbara Schell, MD, in Seattle. Anyway, she was already aware of the treatment and the article in the journal and says she has already tried it on patients. It is a viable treatment option just as the article said. However, for my case, she said that if she was me, she would use a CO2 laser as it would give the most impressive result (75-90%). I could do the TCA and follow up with the N-Lite too, but she really said the laser was the way to go. I won't know prices until the gal who handles that end of things calls me back on Monday. In spite of what the doctor had to say I think I will still give this treatment a try! I figure if the results aren't as hoped I can always go to the laser later. Stefany, I cannot believe your luck!
Anna

#44 freedom

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 07:50 PM

I dont believe the co2 will help icepicks much at all, I had it done and it did not even smooth out the tiniest of pits. Maybe she needs to sell the laser treatment prob tons more more than the TCA. Did she have before and afters of the cross method?

#45 OursFan

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 08:08 PM

I agree in part with freedom. I don't think that ice picks are going to be diminished much by CO2. Not unless they are very, very shallow. I'd research it further before doing it and I'd ask to see before/after photos of patients w/ice picks that were improved that way.
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#46 stefany

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Posted 14 March 2003 - 08:41 PM

I also agree. I had CO2 laser performed two years ago, and I didn't notice any improvement. But it sounds like Anna is going to try the CROSS method first. Sounds like a good idea!

#47 Anna

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Posted 15 March 2003 - 11:48 AM

Freedom & Ours Fan,
First of all I should describe what kind of scarring I have. Even though I have a few scars, the scar that bugs me most and I am most anxious to have treated is a pit on my right nostril. The doctors I have seen have not all called it an Ice-Pick, rather some have said it is a depressed atrophic scar. It was the result of a cyst I had last year that took two months to heal and then when it was finally healing a branch hit me right on the cyst, tearing off the scab and leaving a hole and a line.

I also have some pretty tiny ice-picks on the left side of my nose and a really shallow boxcar on my left cheek. After visits with seven Plastic Surgeons who suggested everything from excision, dermaplaning, laser treatment, collagen injections, doing nothing, dermabrasion, to silicone injections, needless to say I was a little perplexed. Forget the fact that a few of the doctors directly contradicted what other doctors had said. After I heard about Dr. Rapaport's treatment for Ice-Picks (among the most difficult of scars to treat) and purchasing the article I saw that CROSS was not only for Ice-Picks but for all types of depressed scars.

Anyway, this is my long-winded way of saying I can understand why this doctor thinks CO2 might be the way to go. However, I still think I am going to give CROSS a try first.

Sorry for the novel!

Thanks!
Anna

#48 Anna

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Posted 15 March 2003 - 07:10 PM

PS: Sorry, no she didn't have any pictures of the people she had treated with CROSS to show me. I am certain the patient has to sign a waiver for the doctor to be allowed to show before and after shots to other patients. Probably, no one wanted to sign the waiver.

#49 Anna

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Posted 19 March 2003 - 11:49 AM

Still no word on pricing yet. I've called twice already and left a message with no return call. Frustrating!

#50 Anna

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Posted 19 March 2003 - 04:37 PM

Hi All,
Just heard back. The doctor would charge $50 to do a test scar with 65% TCA. They suggested augmenting this with a full face 35% TCA which would be an additional $400. Still weighing my options at this point.
Thanks, Anna

#51 Anna

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Posted 21 March 2003 - 04:25 PM

Hi All,
Test treatment on one scar is scheduled for Friday April 4th at 4:15. I'm scared and excited! Keeping my fingers crossed.
Anna

#52 ben

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Posted 21 March 2003 - 04:36 PM

anan keep this post going wrer all interested
sup my brothers we die in harmony with each other

#53 ben

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Posted 21 March 2003 - 04:45 PM

my scars are almost gone 50 percent...i think mine mature :P but they are improving i use to have lines on my skin now i dont i guess it was from photo damage or smaller scars?? but they are diminishing
sup my brothers we die in harmony with each other

#54 daltgilb

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Posted 22 March 2003 - 07:42 PM

If you want to see what treatment of icepicks using tca involves, go to cosmetic-medicine.jp (search with lycos) . it's a japanese website, but just click "no" when it prompts you to download the japanese texts. one says tca--acne...the dr. is very nice and willing to answer all emails very promptly. his email and name can be found on the sight.
d.

#55 daltgilb

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Posted 22 March 2003 - 07:51 PM

guess anna is ahead of me. she found the site. i am pretty sure it is the cross method, as this was advised by a doc in thailand for atrophic saucer shaped scars near my eyebrow. better than laser he said. if you really want to know, please email the doctor. i have emailed him for pigmentation problems. he is fluent in english and very helpful.
d.

#56 daltgilb

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Posted 22 March 2003 - 08:02 PM

i forgot to mention. i am guessing that tca is done in conjunction with another therapy this doctor uses to treat hyperpigmentation, as speaking first hand ijapanese skin is subject to hyperpigmentation. the doc also uses a treatment of very strong retinoic acid in aqueous solution to treat other skin problems with good results. the strength of retinoic acid he uses is not available in retin a, etc in aqueous form , but is made in the tokyo university labs where this guy works in the plastic surgery/ derm unit. i'm not an advertiser for him--just someone who is impressed with how caring he seemed--unlike many derms i've met here.
d.

#57 daltgilb

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Posted 23 March 2003 - 10:51 AM

anna, thanks for your email. perhaps, you 've discussed this before, but what type of scarring do you have. also, did you say your appointment was for april 3 or friday april 4 because i will see rapaport on friday as well. in the article you have, did they mention that cross is progressive. you have to do it a few times depending on scar depth. also, are you fair skinned or olive. if you are not fair i would really think long and hard about tca on the whole face. i had a very frightening experience with it.
d.

#58 Anna

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Posted 23 March 2003 - 02:40 PM

Hi Daltgib,
You are welcome. If you look at my March 15th post in this thread, I describe my various scars. I am really very fair, however with a bit of an olive undertone (kind of greenish in the wrong light (yikes)). I too am apprehensive about the prospect of a full face TCA peel. I have heard people say that after one their pores looked permanently enlarged (all I need). Anyway, my appointment is on April 4th too. And yes, the article does describe CROSS as progressive. Some people had up to six treatments. When I talked to the assistant at Dr. Rapaport's office via phone she said it averages about three treatments they then follow up with N-Lite.

Do you care to share your TCA experience? The article is focused on this treatment on darker skin types, including Koreans (the study was performed at Leejiham Skin Clinic and the Department of Dermatology at Yonsei University College of Medicine, Seoul, Korea). They warn of the dangers of full face peels on darker skin types and therefore the focus of the study was to evaluate the clinical effects of CROSS on all types of atrophic acne scars in dark-complexioned patients. They said that the scars they treated successfully with this modality have ranged from dialated pores to surgical scars.

Anyway, I really envy you for being able to see Dr. Rapaport, I have never heard one negative thing about him.

All my best!
Anna

#59 Maya

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Posted 23 March 2003 - 03:06 PM

Hi Anna - this is a great thread...

Just want to wish you GOOD LUCK!! :P :lol: :lol:

It does look like a really impressive treatment. I really hope it works out for you - will send you positive vibes on the 4th!
The difficulties of life are intended to make us better, not bitter.

EDIT: Maya is a former moderator but unfortunately no longer posts here.

#60 Anna

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Posted 23 March 2003 - 03:22 PM

Thanks Maya!

I really would like to have all my scars treated, but since I don't want to use up all my vacation time treating scars and want to make sure my skin reacts well I am just having the one scar test treated. Thanks so much for the positive thoughts! I'm sure I'll be pretty anxious until I see how this thing looks after the crusting sloughs off.

Anna