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Icepick Treatment using TCA (Cross Method)

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Hi All,

Test treatment on one scar is scheduled for Friday April 4th at 4:15. I'm scared and excited! Keeping my fingers crossed.

Anna

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anan keep this post going wrer all interested

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my scars are almost gone 50 percent...i think mine mature :P but they are improving i use to have lines on my skin now i dont i guess it was from photo damage or smaller scars?? but they are diminishing

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If you want to see what treatment of icepicks using tca involves, go to cosmetic-medicine.jp (search with lycos) . it's a japanese website, but just click "no" when it prompts you to download the japanese texts. one says tca--acne...the dr. is very nice and willing to answer all emails very promptly. his email and name can be found on the sight.

d.

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guess anna is ahead of me. she found the site. i am pretty sure it is the cross method, as this was advised by a doc in thailand for atrophic saucer shaped scars near my eyebrow. better than laser he said. if you really want to know, please email the doctor. i have emailed him for pigmentation problems. he is fluent in english and very helpful.

d.

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i forgot to mention. i am guessing that tca is done in conjunction with another therapy this doctor uses to treat hyperpigmentation, as speaking first hand ijapanese skin is subject to hyperpigmentation. the doc also uses a treatment of very strong retinoic acid in aqueous solution to treat other skin problems with good results. the strength of retinoic acid he uses is not available in retin a, etc in aqueous form , but is made in the tokyo university labs where this guy works in the plastic surgery/ derm unit. i'm not an advertiser for him--just someone who is impressed with how caring he seemed--unlike many derms i've met here.

d.

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anna, thanks for your email. perhaps, you 've discussed this before, but what type of scarring do you have. also, did you say your appointment was for april 3 or friday april 4 because i will see rapaport on friday as well. in the article you have, did they mention that cross is progressive. you have to do it a few times depending on scar depth. also, are you fair skinned or olive. if you are not fair i would really think long and hard about tca on the whole face. i had a very frightening experience with it.

d.

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Hi Daltgib,

You are welcome. If you look at my March 15th post in this thread, I describe my various scars. I am really very fair, however with a bit of an olive undertone (kind of greenish in the wrong light (yikes)). I too am apprehensive about the prospect of a full face TCA peel. I have heard people say that after one their pores looked permanently enlarged (all I need). Anyway, my appointment is on April 4th too. And yes, the article does describe CROSS as progressive. Some people had up to six treatments. When I talked to the assistant at Dr. Rapaport's office via phone she said it averages about three treatments they then follow up with N-Lite.

Do you care to share your TCA experience? The article is focused on this treatment on darker skin types, including Koreans (the study was performed at Leejiham Skin Clinic and the Department of Dermatology at Yonsei University College of Medicine, Seoul, Korea). They warn of the dangers of full face peels on darker skin types and therefore the focus of the study was to evaluate the clinical effects of CROSS on all types of atrophic acne scars in dark-complexioned patients. They said that the scars they treated successfully with this modality have ranged from dialated pores to surgical scars.

Anyway, I really envy you for being able to see Dr. Rapaport, I have never heard one negative thing about him.

All my best!

Anna

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Hi Anna - this is a great thread...

Just want to wish you GOOD LUCK!! :P:lol::lol:

It does look like a really impressive treatment. I really hope it works out for you - will send you positive vibes on the 4th!

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Thanks Maya!

I really would like to have all my scars treated, but since I don't want to use up all my vacation time treating scars and want to make sure my skin reacts well I am just having the one scar test treated. Thanks so much for the positive thoughts! I'm sure I'll be pretty anxious until I see how this thing looks after the crusting sloughs off.

Anna

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Daltgibt, what happened to you from TCA? And anyone else here have problems with a tca peel? I am concerned that puting in a pit might make the pit larger.

How does TCA cause enlarged pores?

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Freedom,

This website talks about full face peels and their possible complications:

http://surgery.org/chemicalpeel_deep.html

Both the medium and deep peels have listed as possible side effects enlarged pores, I think this is because the skin itself swells and the pores of course remain rooted, which would cause this effect. My understanding of the spot treatment is the re-wounding causes collagen reorganization and repithialization which helps fill in the pit. The pictures in the study were pretty impressive.

Thanks, Anna

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Sorry for the delay. I guess it was pretty traumatic, so I don't like to think about it. My experience with full face tca--the doc used glycolic (i forgot the %) and tca 35%. I was purple and black with the hyperpigmentation finally resolving after 4 or 5 months. The doc was inexperienced with the procedure and Asian skin is not suitable for it. I am not exceptionally dark--fair even by some standards .Demarcation lines remained and yes i had enlarged pores--not a few months later, but a year afterward. I have always had pores that were on the large side, but I thin TCA thinned the skin and caused them to become more noticeable earlier than they should have. I don't think the CROSS method will do this. But, as for full face, in my case the disadvantages outweighed the benefits. Benefits of full face were about 0% once the swelling subsided. It is difficult with full face for docs to predict how deep the acid will go and in my case it went much deeper on the left side than the right, so I was much more hyperpigmented on that side. Anyway, like an idiot, I was convinced erbium might help to mitigater some of the premature aging I thought I'd developed as a result of the TCA. Well, it didn't and now I have a whole new set of problems after finally recovering from the TCA episode. I guess I can serve as a living warning about being careful what you do with your skin cause once its messed up, its very hard to repair. This is not meant to deter you from CROSS. AS I havee said in previous posts, I think it could be helpful. I will be seeing Rappaport at the begiining of April regarding shallow scarring and let you know what he recommends.

Hope this helps. Anna, good luck with your appointment. keep us posted about what happens. BTW-my name is Deborah.

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Deborah,

Thank you for telling us about your experience. I know how difficult it can be to pay good money with hope of improving your situation only to have it backfire and wind up putting you in a position worse off than you were before. I have sensitive and over-reactive skin and am therefore probably one of those people who would have a negative reaction from a full face TCA so I was leary at the prospect before you shared your story. I am still going forward with the spot TCA (CROSS). I figure at the very worst I can have the pit excised. Thank you for your kind words and I wish you the very best with your appointment too.

Anna

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OK, It's only three days away now and even though I am only going to test one scar, I am stressing. The scar is right on my nose, so it will be noticeable. My husband says he hopes the acid doesn't eat a hole clean through. I keep looking at the study pictures to keep my courage up. No guts no glory, I guess. Please send positive thoughts my way on Friday! It will be so great if this works and it will really suck if it doesn't!!!

Anna

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Anna - You're going to be fine girl!!! :shock:

You've been wanting to do it. I know it's scary - trust me - subcision sounded so great until I was under the "knife" or in this case needle. lol. If you are unsure of doing it to the one on your nose, do it on one that is less noticeable. Sending you positive thoughts.

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Thanks so much Tamara! I just hope future generations don't have to subject themselves to such barbary or ever endure acne scarring. Unfortunately, most of my scarring is on my nose with the exception of a big old boxcar on my cheek which took forever to fade when I first got it. So, I am pretty much stuck with my nose as the guinea pig. Maybe because of SARS I'll wear a face mask and say I am just hyper-vigilant against the disease. Thanks again!

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Anna,

Can you describe the scar you are having treated with the Cross method? Icepick, boxcar, or rolling? Superficial, medium, or deep?

I think I speak for many others when I say I think you deserve great praise for your willingness to describe how this treatment goes for you, since your account will benefit so many of us, and of course, I am sure I also speak for others in wishing you the absolute best of luck for a great result!

Henry

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Thanks so much for your kind words Henry!

I would say my scar is a medium icepick. Unfortunately, it is on my nose the doctors have told me this is the most unforgiving areas for scarring. I am hoping for the best though.

Thanks!

Anna

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Anna,

I hope you the very best on your treatment. I know it will go well. I have a huge ice-pick star on my left temple. It has been there for years and I have yet to find anything that helps get rid of it. The only comforting thing is that I can hide it with my hair... I am praying for you. I hope you have hit upon a truly effective treatment method.

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Dilemma,

I really appreciate and need the encouragement. What I wouldn't give to have scarring I could hide with my hair, but no, had to get it right on my snout! I am a wizard with make-up though, but I don't want to wear it anymore all the time.

Before I got this nose pit last summer, I didn't feel my other scars were as noticeable. This is just the scar that broke my face, so to speak. Now, I see every imperfection. I want to be able to get out of a swimming pool with no make-up on and not feel self-conscious. It probably doesn't help that I just turned 40 either. But, dang it, I have worked really hard to keep in shape (I'm 5 feet 5 inches and 110 pounds) and curvy. No real wrinkles, dark hair and green eyes.

My reality though is I see women who are 250 pounds with beautiful skin and wish I was them. I am pretty sure I could lose the weight on my own but feel helpless when it comes to scarring.

So sorry to ramble, just nerves I guess. Anyway, I just wanted to say that if this treatment doesn't work for me because my scar is on my nose, I still wouldn't let it discourage anyone from at least having a doctor do a test spot. All the pictures I have seen this treatment on have been of cheeks and the results look pretty amazing.

Thank you again everyone! I feel like you are all my supportive family because you truly understand what this is like.

Blessings!

Anna

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Hey Anna - best of luck, I'm sure it's your time - I wish you a perfect nose!! :shock:

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I can totally relate to what you are saying, Anna. I have many a time debated over the same hypothetical dilemma - overweigth w/good skin or as I am w/acne scars. I know that being overweight can be a serious problem both physically and mentally and I am not trying to belittle the problems of others. But to me that's how stressful having scars is. And like you, I am embarrassed to confess I have usually chosen (in my mind) to be heavier with good skin. I feel very shallow and vain saying this but... I can't help it. The big ice-pick scar (the one I can hide with my hair) isn't the only scar I have. With the exception of rolling scars, I have every scar known to man/woman, on both cheeks. They are not that deep so makeup helps to make them look less obvious but you can tell they are very much there. Anna, don't be nervous. It will work! It has to work!

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Dilemma,

You know, people don't understand how utterly destructive it can be to have skin that you feel ashamed of. I have chatted to quite a few people through the various forums and a huge number of them have voiced sentiments of what major things they would give up to have healthy normal skin. People have stated to me they would give up 10 years of their life, the ability to have children, their houses, almost anything you can imagine just to be able to look in the mirror and not cringe.

The irony is that when you say this to people who don't suffer they kind of roll their eyes and say, "it's just acne scars, it's not cancer." Somehow you are made to feel vain because you haven't lost a limb. I think this is a disease that should be fully funded and eradicated with all the fury and effort that is put behind breast cancer and AIDS. I believe if you were to rate diseases by mathematically assessing the total time spent being unhappy and feeling emotionally devastated, acne scarring would rate highest.

Anyway, that's my rant for now. More this evening after my appointment.

Thanks again to everybody for all the support!

Anna

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Well, I don't know where to begin. After a 45 minute commute from my doctors office crying, here is my story.

I went into my doctor's office waited for about 25 minutes; the doctor came in; asked me to specify where I wanted the acid place; I detailed where; asked her if I could watch and wanted to know when she would know when the treatment was complete. She said when it frosts we'll put iced water on it, but the acid is self-neutralizing.

Next I couldn't believe my eyes, instead of isolating the acid to the pit, she started out there and swiped the acid in a 4mm perimeter around the pit. I asked her what she was doing and she said that this is the way to do it. I said that the study stated that just the depressed area was to be treated. She said, I can see your upset, I will be in the office tomorrow if you have any questions. Anyway, I now have a half dime size area when I was expecting basically to just be dealing with my pit on my nose. I don't know how I will be able to go into work on Monday! This is going to blister and turn brown. I could just shoot myself. My dearest hope is that I just don't wind up in a worse position than I was before.

I am so upset!

Anna

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