Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Zag Enzyme, Lectins, Digestive Tract And Clogged Pores

255 posts in this topic

Edit: This thread started out about the ZAG enzyme but it's full of info on lectins, digestive tract health and which lectins harm it and what heals it, cooking methods that reduce lectins and food/nutrient combinations that reduce damage. Not to mention info about the enzymes and other factors involved in normal exfoliation of skin cells that doesn't clog pores.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Something I'm looking into:

ZAG enzyme (zinc-alpha-2-glycoprotein) which per Cordain:

There is an enzyme called ZAG that normally dissolves the proteins holding together skin cells lining the pore, so that they can flake away and not block the pore. But there is exciting new evidence showing that components of certain foods enter the bloodstream and inhibit ZAG, thus causing the skin cells lining the pore to stick together and thereby block the pore.

2 people like this

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In this study about the possibility of using ZAG enzymes as a marker in testing for prostrate cancer, they mention two things that were comprehensible and of interest. One is that ZAG enzymes tend to increase as we age. Perhaps a factor in 'growing out' of acne?

And the other is that ZAG may be induced by androgens, which would seem contradictory in preventing acne if what Cordain says about ZAG dissolving the proteins that hold skin cells together. If it's induced by androgens, then many of us should have plenty of it.

Then again, I myself don't have excess androgens going on, so perhaps this is a factor for me, but maybe not for teen boys.

---------------

A new-to-me term came up in all this. Exocrine. Exocrine glands are glands that secrete their products (hormones) into ducts (duct glands). They are the counterparts to endocrine glands, which secrete their products (hormones) directly into the bloodstream (ductless glands). Typical exocrine glands include sweat glands, salivary glands, sebaceous glands, mammary glands, stomach, liver, pancreas.

If you search for ZAG, you do find a lot about prostrate, breast and some other cancers. But so far not about acne or similar skin condition.

1 person likes this

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About lectins:

http://www.clearskin.net/acne/modules.php?...req=viewarticle Claims:

Lectins are sugar-binding proteins that mimic insulin. They bind to carbohydrates, and to various proteins. This binding action causes your body to attack itself, which in turn creates inflammation. This inflammation leads to more acne, among many other physiological problems.

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, here's a study about ZAG and shedding of skin cells:

http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/full/14/3/565

Another enzyme that we have shown to participate in desquamation of normal skin is ZAG (38) . We had previously shown that ZAG expresses enzymatic activity (44) and that it plays a role in stratum corneum cohesion (45) . ZAG also has ribonuclease activity (46) and it participates in the destruction of nuclei in terminally differentiating keratinocytes (47)

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very interesting stuff. Though now I am more confused than ever with beans/legumes... some say they are the healthiest foods in the world, some say they are basically poisonous!


Exercise, eat and live like you are constantly trying to get into the best shape of your life, and it will show, inside and out.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Very interesting stuff. Though now I am more confused than ever with beans/legumes... some say they are the healthiest foods in the world, some say they are basically poisonous!

And some say they are the healthiest foods when properly prepared according to centuries old traditions.

Some references on soaking and sprouting seeds and nuts (with conflicting instructions):

http://www.wellnesstips.ca/grain%20preparation.htm

http://www.raw-food-living.com/soaking-nuts.html

http://foodthatnourishes.blogspot.com/2007...otein-with.html

http://www.smallfootprintfamily.com/2009/0...nuts-and-seeds/

http://www.thenourishinggourmet.com/2008/0...aking-nuts.html

Most of those are citing Sally Fallon. And they say to add salt to break down enzyme inhibitors. But I wonder what that does to the nuts ability to sprout.

http://kardenaskitchen.com/2009/09/nuts-and-seeds/

http://www.veggiewave.com/soaking_chart

http://www.raw-food-living.com/soaking-nuts.html I like this one. It better explains soaking vs sprouting process. Which is basically soak first. Then follow sprouting instructions.

http://www.astrologyclub.org/PowerFood/Pow...ndSprouting.htm

http://www.living-foods.com/articles/sprouting.html

Preparing legumes and grains:

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008...ns-part-ii.html

http://www.thenourishinggourmet.com/2008/0...g-grains-2.html

http://www.thenourishinggourmet.com/2008/1...g-grains-2.html


Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was just re-reading and noticed that I've posted some stuff that may be of interest to those that feel they need to avoid gluten. Candida diet followers as well. See post #4. I've just gone back in and bolded the points of interest.

Also, according to the cooking show I was watching. Grains like wheat don't actually contain gluten. They contain a couple of proteins that bind together with water to make gluten. And I do know that the yeast bread making process is designed to maximize gluten formation and you must use a gluten flour. When making cakes, gluten is undesirable and cake flour is low gluten. So maybe you don't really need to avoid all grains or even all sources of wheat, just the ones that are produced in a way that they form a lot of gluten.


Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

awesome stuff alternativista! (as always)

I follow alot of what Cordain teaches, except for his stance against saturated fats.

Other than that he really knows his stuff!


Since AUG 09: Been experimenting with Paleo/Primal diet and absolutely loving it.

Probiotics have been huge as well.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^Well, most of this info isn't coming from Cordain. Cordain is only where I got the connection between the ZAG enzyme and acne and lectins. And I do appreciate that. But the problem with lectins is apparently alleviated when foods like the legumes and grains he considers inedible are prepared properly according to ancient traditions.

I don't agree with a lot of what Cordain says. He is not an anthropologist and I think he just picked whatever diets he liked and ignored many others. It's a big planet and humans spread in all directions to all kinds of climates and adapted just fine to many different diets.

Much like with the Weston Price people. I appreciate their recommendation of whole foods prepared in traditional methods, but that's about it. They are complete nut jobs on a number of subjects.

1 person likes this

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I posted this on here months ago... an amazing article on properly preparing grains:

http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/be_kind.html

-"But many healthy societies consume products made from grains. In fact, it can be argued that the cultivation of grains made civilization possible and opened the door for mankind to live long and comfortable lives. Problems occur when we are cruel to our grains-when we fractionate them into bran, germ and naked starch; when we mill them at high temperatures; when we extrude them to make crunchy breakfast cereals; and when we consume them without careful preparation."

-"Our ancestors, and virtually all pre-industrialized peoples, soaked or fermented their grains before making them into porridge, breads, cakes and casseroles. A quick review of grain recipes from around the world will prove our point: In India, rice and lentils are fermented for at least two days before they are prepared as idli and dosas; in Africa the natives soak coarsely ground corn overnight before adding it to soups and stews and they ferment corn or millet for several days to produce a sour porridge called ogi; a similar dish made from oats was traditional among the Welsh; in some Oriental and Latin American countries rice receives a long fermentation before it is prepared; Ethiopians make their distinctive injera bread by fermenting a grain called teff for several days; Mexican corn cakes, called pozol, are fermented for several days and for as long as two weeks in banana leaves; before the introduction of commercial brewers yeast, Europeans made slow-rise breads from fermented starters; in America the pioneers were famous for their sourdough breads, pancakes and biscuits; and throughout Europe grains were soaked overnight, and for as long as several days, in water or soured milk before they were cooked and served as porridge or gruel.

As you said, they don't mention lectins... But the same idea

This is probably also why Dr. Mercola's no-grain diet clears acne (or so he says).


Exercise, eat and live like you are constantly trying to get into the best shape of your life, and it will show, inside and out.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
^Well, most of this info isn't coming from Cordain. Cordain is only where I got the connection between the ZAG enzyme and acne and lectins. And I do appreciate that. But the problem with lectins is apparently alleviated when foods like the legumes and grains he considers inedible are prepared properly according to ancient traditions.

I don't agree with a lot of what Cordain says. He is not an anthropologist and I think he just picked whatever diets he liked and ignored many others. It's a big planet and humans spread in all directions to all kinds of climates and adapted just fine to many different diets.

Much like with the Weston Price people. I appreciate their recommendation of whole foods prepared in traditional methods, but that's about it.

Well I think Cordain is just trying to guide people toward a less inflammatory, nutrient dense "diet".

Grains just don't have nearly the amount of nutrients that other food groups do. And their Glycemic Load is also much poorer than fruits and veggies.

Does soaking grains/legumes eliminate the lectin problem? I thought that was just to counteract the phytates? I could be wrong there.


Since AUG 09: Been experimenting with Paleo/Primal diet and absolutely loving it.

Probiotics have been huge as well.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well I think Cordain is just trying to guide people toward a less inflammatory, nutrient dense "diet".

Grains just don't have nearly the amount of nutrients that other food groups do. And their Glycemic Load is also much poorer than fruits and veggies.

Does soaking grains/legumes eliminate the lectin problem? I thought that was just to counteract the phytates? I could be wrong there.

Yes, according to the article I linked to in my first post. And somehow, despite what Cordain says, the communities all over the world with high numbers of very healthy centenarians tend to eat plant based diets with a great deal of legumes and grains.

Also, this was about all seeds. Not just legumes and grains. Besides, lectins are in all foods, not just seeds.

1 person likes this

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grains just don't have nearly the amount of nutrients that other food groups do. And their Glycemic Load is also much poorer than fruits and veggies.

glycemic load of

ripe banana 13

raisins 28

dried dates 42

wheat bread 9

barley bread 7

Coke 15


I think impaired zinc metabolism is the root cause of chronic acne.

A Zinc Regimen. | My crappy blog.

"When you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer -- superstition ain't the way" -- S. Wonder


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Grains are also a really good source of calories.


Please, use Retin-A. It has nearly eliminated my acne and continues to lighten my red marks.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some threads with interesting related info:

Food allergies, lectins and N-acetyl glucosamine, a possible supplement to reduce intolerance http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Food-alle...&hl=lectins

Gluten Sensitivity, Signs, Infertility, ADHD, Diabetes, Autism etc. http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Gluten-Se...&hl=lectins

Bloodtype and development of disease http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...st&p=278649

IGF and lectins in dairy (grain fed animals) http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Question-...&hl=lectins


Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Grains just don't have nearly the amount of nutrients that other food groups do. And their Glycemic Load is also much poorer than fruits and veggies.

glycemic load of

ripe banana 13

raisins 28

dried dates 42

wheat bread 9

barley bread 7

Coke 15

LOL...i love how you picked out the dried fruit for your argument. Yeah, dried fruit is gonna have high GL. and bananas are one of the higher GI fruits. good job for figuring that out.

Why don't you do a more thorough comparison?

The first number after the food is CALORIES the second number is GYLCEMIC LOAD

FRUITS

Apple, average 120 6

Banana, ripe 120 13

Dates, dried 60 42

Grapefruit 120 3

Grapes, average 120 8

Orange, average 120 5

Peach, average 120 5

Peach, canned in light syrup 120 9

Pear, average 120 4

Pear, canned in pear juice 120 5

Prunes, pitted 60 10

Raisins 60 28

Watermelon 120 4

BAKERY PRODUCTS AND BREADS

Banana cake, made with sugar 80 18

Banana cake, made without sugar 80 16

Sponge cake, plain 63 17

Vanilla cake made from packet mix with vanilla frosting (Betty Crocker) 111 24

Apple pie, made with sugar 60 13

Apple pie, made without sugar 60 9

Waffles, Aunt Jemima (Quaker Oats) 35 10

Bagel, white, frozen 70 25

Baguette, white, plain 30 15

Coarse barley bread, 75%-80% kernels, average 30 7

Hamburger bun 30 9

Kaiser roll 30 12

Pumpernickel bread 30 6

50% cracked wheat kernel bread 30 12

White wheat flour bread 30 10

Wonder™ bread, average 30 10

Whole-wheat bread, average 30 9

100% Whole Grain™ bread (Natural Ovens) 30 7

Pita bread, white 30 10

Corn tortilla 50 12

Wheat tortilla 50 8

SO THE AVERAGES ARE

FRUIT: CALORIES 106.15 GL 10.9

GRAINS: CALORIES 47.09 GL 12.33

So....on AVERAGE according to YOUR supplied list...fruit has a LOWER glycemic load and HIGHER calories.

What do we know about the nutritional density of grains compared to fruit?

Well for the most part Fruit is MORE nutritionally dense than grains.

So...

1) Fruit has higher calories and higher nutrient value than grains. To get more nutrient and caloric value from grains you would have to EAT MORE of them.

2) Fruit ON AVERAGE has a lower glycemic load than grains.

3) So you could eat fruit, get more nutrition, be satiated faster, and have less blood sugar problems than eating grains.

4) unfortunately this list didn't include fiber, but i'd be willing to bet fruit has grains beat in the fiber department too.

5) Veggies would probably put up equally impressive stats.

@databased: please use all the data if you're gonna use data to argue.

@packerfan: obviously grains are not the best source of calories when taking nutrient density and glycemic load into account.


Since AUG 09: Been experimenting with Paleo/Primal diet and absolutely loving it.

Probiotics have been huge as well.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also note that the above listings for the grain products don't take into account people rarely eat just the serving size amount...


Exercise, eat and live like you are constantly trying to get into the best shape of your life, and it will show, inside and out.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LOL...i love how you picked out the dried fruit for your argument. Yeah, dried fruit is gonna have high GL. and bananas are one of the higher GI fruits. good job for figuring that out.

Why don't you do a more thorough comparison?

Because people don't eat laundry lists of foods. The point was precisely that people eat specific foods, not "grains". Thus, if you look at people on this forum who claim they are eating "healthy" and still have acne, they often have chosen a high-fructose, high glycemic load diet (which they inexplicably decide to make produce even higher insulin responses by running through a blender).

You can stare at the list of low-glycemic load fruits all you want, but if you in fact eat apples, bananas, pears, and mangoes, you're just going for maximum sugar and fooling yourself into thinking it's healthy.

Also note that the above listings for the grain products don't take into account people rarely eat just the serving size amount...

Which is... an identical issue for fruit -- especially when people get out the blender to amplify both portions and glycemic load. There are folks doing "apple fasts" and imagining it is healthy to eat such massive amounts of sugar because apples are "natural". We are highly trained sugar seekers (some believe that was the evolutionary advantage of the retinal cones that let us distinguish colors). Put that laundry list of fruits out on a table and people will instinctively eat the high glycemic load selections first -- and then claim it was "healthy".


I think impaired zinc metabolism is the root cause of chronic acne.

A Zinc Regimen. | My crappy blog.

"When you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer -- superstition ain't the way" -- S. Wonder


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@databased: please use all the data if you're gonna use data to argue.

You too. You only included processed foods in your argument against grains. Where's the oatmeal, barley, rice? And especially the lentils, quinoa, nuts, seeds, garbanzos, the lima beans that according to one of the sources isn't that much of a problem lectin wise? All nutrient dense foods.


Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@databased: please use all the data if you're gonna use data to argue.

You too. You only included processed foods in your argument against grains. Where's the oatmeal, barley, rice? And especially the lentils, quinoa, nuts, seeds, garbanzos, the lima beans that according to one of the sources isn't that much of a problem lectin wise? All nutrient dense foods.

i was using the data from his supplied link.


Since AUG 09: Been experimenting with Paleo/Primal diet and absolutely loving it.

Probiotics have been huge as well.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LOL...i love how you picked out the dried fruit for your argument. Yeah, dried fruit is gonna have high GL. and bananas are one of the higher GI fruits. good job for figuring that out.

Why don't you do a more thorough comparison?

Because people don't eat laundry lists of foods. The point was precisely that people eat specific foods, not "grains". Thus, if you look at people on this forum who claim they are eating "healthy" and still have acne, they often have chosen a high-fructose, high glycemic load diet (which they inexplicably decide to make produce even higher insulin responses by running through a blender).

You can stare at the list of low-glycemic load fruits all you want, but if you in fact eat apples, bananas, pears, and mangoes, you're just going for maximum sugar and fooling yourself into thinking it's healthy.

Also note that the above listings for the grain products don't take into account people rarely eat just the serving size amount...

Which is... an identical issue for fruit -- especially when people get out the blender to amplify both portions and glycemic load. There are folks doing "apple fasts" and imagining it is healthy to eat such massive amounts of sugar because apples are "natural". We are highly trained sugar seekers (some believe that was the evolutionary advantage of the retinal cones that let us distinguish colors). Put that laundry list of fruits out on a table and people will instinctively eat the high glycemic load selections first -- and then claim it was "healthy".

i have no idea where you are going with this reply.

first...blending fruit doesn't change the glycemic load much. that's because the fiber is still there.

Juicing would dramatically change the glycemic load. Blending retains fiber.

Yes there are low-glycemic fruits and high glycemic fruits just like there are low and high glycemic grains. I was only using the averages of the "laundry list" to show how the two stack up with your supplied data since you tried to skew it the first time by showing us "dried fruit" and "coke".

Yes, too much sugar from any source is bad. I don't see too many fruitarians on the boards tho.

And about serving size....people do eat more than just the serving size amount...for just about everything (it's the american way right!?).

But with all the fiber and nutrients and calories from fruit...you would get full faster pigging out on fruit than you would pigging out on grains. Meaning pigging out on grains would be more detrimental to bloodsugar levels because you can consume alot more grains than you could say....apples,oranges?

I could eat a crap-load of rice but only a few apples.

anyway. i think we can all agree that it's watching your overall intake of carbs and selecting healthier choices (fresh fruit not dried....whole grains not refined) that is the important thing.

here is a cool link to check out.


Since AUG 09: Been experimenting with Paleo/Primal diet and absolutely loving it.

Probiotics have been huge as well.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could you argue about Glycemic impact elsewhere. This thread is about the ZAG enzyme and lectins.

Because people don't eat laundry lists of foods. The point was precisely that people eat specific foods, not "grains".

Status: Clear after 30 years. Wow, I guess it's been 6 years, now.

[ Story: Severe Acne since I was 10. 10+ years of Dermatologists, Antibiotics, topicals and ACCUTANE did nothing. Discovered oranges triggered the worst of my cystic acne = about 70% improvement. Tried some nutrient supplements like B-complex with zinc and C, saw palmetto and a BHA like the aspirin mask = more improvement, a lot less oily. Then, Diet changes = Clear.

Regimen: Anti-inflammatory, nutrient dense, blood sugar stabilizing diet and supplements (for hormones, inflammation, aging, health). No soap or other cleanser except for hand washing! Water only or Oil cleanse. Aloe Vera mixed with niacinimide and a high linoleic acid oil for moisturizer and reduce pigmentation.

Diet effects acne in so many ways: hormone balance, inflammation, Insulin levels, digestion, allergies and intolerances, liver function, adrenal function, SHBG levels, sebum quality, cell function and turnover, nutrient deficiencies, body fat, etc. Basic advice: Eat, sleep, supplement and exercise like you are a diabetic. And eat real food!

For more information, see my Good Things for Acne thread *Moderator edit - Please refer to the board rules (see “Advertising/soliciting”, “Linking” and “Signatures”)*

When you eat stuff, Stuff Happens!


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sorry for getting off topic.

i'm not endorsing this product b/c i don't fully believe in the "4 your type" gospel, but i thought this was interesting and worth a share...

some kind of lectin damage supplement brought to us by the "eat right 4 your type" people.

i'm not totally familiar with all the ingredients but it looks like alot of fiber supplementation.

that makes sense. Fiber helps flush out the things that are creating the negative responses.


Since AUG 09: Been experimenting with Paleo/Primal diet and absolutely loving it.

Probiotics have been huge as well.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites