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LED light therapy

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Sam, I have used a dual array 660/880 for about a year with no visible improvements in anything. I use it because I bought it, but I wouldn't buy it again.


Dermabrasion - Full Face

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"The Road To Wellville" 1994

Goodloe Bender: Health! The 'open sesame' to the sucker's purse!


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Dudley what do you base this on? Have you actually use them in conjunction with scar removal techniques? i have always said they will do nothing for scarring by themselves but have an amazing outcome when you combine them with normal scar removal techniques.

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The article specifically says that 880mn is 'bad choice' of wavelength. If you look at the chart, you can see that 820mn would be a much better wavelength of infrared to use. Moreover, it seems that 620mn or 680mn would be more effective than 660mn. I wonder why the LED man didn't choose to sell devices with these wavelengths instead?

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Dudley what do you base this on? Have you actually use them in conjunction with scar removal techniques? i have always said they will do nothing for scarring by themselves but have an amazing outcome when you combine them with normal scar removal techniques.

I am using it with Copper Peptides and Fraxel Repair. Repair is the only thing that is working.


Dermabrasion - Full Face

CO2 Full Face 1996

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% May 22, 2008

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Jan 08, 2009

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Oct 30,2009

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Oct 08,2010

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Nov 04,2011

"The Road To Wellville" 1994

Goodloe Bender: Health! The 'open sesame' to the sucker's purse!


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Sam, I have used a dual array 660/880 for about a year with no visible improvements in anything. I use it because I bought it, but I wouldn't buy it again.

I bought a dual array 660/880 from the LED Man and would not recommend this course of treatment to anyone. Save your money for other treatments that actually work.

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Dudley what do you base this on? Have you actually use them in conjunction with scar removal techniques? i have always said they will do nothing for scarring by themselves but have an amazing outcome when you combine them with normal scar removal techniques.

I am using it with Copper Peptides and Fraxel Repair. Repair is the only thing that is working.

I don't see how you can say the leds aren't helping unless you have had fraxel repair done before and achieved better results. LED is simply there to make your results from surgeries MUCH more effective.

The article specifically says that 880mn is 'bad choice' of wavelength. If you look at the chart, you can see that 820mn would be a much better wavelength of infrared to use. Moreover, it seems that 620mn or 680mn would be more effective than 660mn. I wonder why the LED man didn't choose to sell devices with these wavelengths instead?

Look at the Nasa studies... That guy is trying to sell something so would say that wavelength is better.

Anyway i'm gonna stop now because it looks like i'm defending the LED man. Just remember i have always said the LEDs will do NOTHING for scarring on their own. They are there to make WOUND healing FAR more EFFICIENT, resulting in much better results....

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Lamarr, I am not on any kind of crusade about the LED, and I haven't even mentioned anything until this thread. I have also panned Dermabrasion and CO2 Laser on here, because they did nothing for me.


Dermabrasion - Full Face

CO2 Full Face 1996

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% May 22, 2008

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Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Oct 30,2009

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Oct 08,2010

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Nov 04,2011

"The Road To Wellville" 1994

Goodloe Bender: Health! The 'open sesame' to the sucker's purse!


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When I was 14-15 (now 18) I used to get chemical peels and some light therapy done,the only thing that made a difference is the chemical peels. The only time when light therapy worked was when I underwent Levulan. They put some sort of liquid on your face,then put you under blue light. It kills all the bacteria on your face and left me with no breakouts for like,a month.

I personally have never experienced any change in my skin with light therapy,even with using it with other scar/acne removing methods.

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Dudley what do you base this on? Have you actually use them in conjunction with scar removal techniques? i have always said they will do nothing for scarring by themselves but have an amazing outcome when you combine them with normal scar removal techniques.

I admire your dedication and the help given to others on these boards but I must admit that I do find it extremely difficult to understand how you can be sooo sure that the LEDs have had such an impact. Needling takes 6 months - 1 year for the results to be really seen so I don't know how you can be 100% sure that the LEDs are having such a dramatic effect as opposed to the collagen renewal just taking the expected mount of time to really demonstrate its benefits.

It could be complete coincidence that you started to use the LEDs around the time that the collagen stimulation really began to help your scarring - I really can't see any way that you could prove either to be the case in all honesty. If it works for you then excellent but how does one genuinely ascertain what is and isn't working?

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When I was 14-15 (now 18) I used to get chemical peels and some light therapy done,the only thing that made a difference is the chemical peels. The only time when light therapy worked was when I underwent Levulan. They put some sort of liquid on your face,then put you under blue light. It kills all the bacteria on your face and left me with no breakouts for like,a month.

I personally have never experienced any change in my skin with light therapy,even with using it with other scar/acne removing methods.

Blue light is for acne and won't help scarring/pigmentation.

Dudley what do you base this on? Have you actually use them in conjunction with scar removal techniques? i have always said they will do nothing for scarring by themselves but have an amazing outcome when you combine them with normal scar removal techniques.

I admire your dedication and the help given to others on these boards but I must admit that I do find it extremely difficult to understand how you can be sooo sure that the LEDs have had such an impact. Needling takes 6 months - 1 year for the results to be really seen so I don't know how you can be 100% sure that the LEDs are having such a dramatic effect as opposed to the collagen renewal just taking the expected mount of time to really demonstrate its benefits.

It could be complete coincidence that you started to use the LEDs around the time that the collagen stimulation really began to help your scarring - I really can't see any way that you could prove either to be the case in all honesty. If it works for you then excellent but how does one genuinely ascertain what is and isn't working?

Because i had two dermaroller sessions WITHOUT the leds, professionally done so i know what results were like without them. I then added the LEDs and began getting MUCH better results. I had two sessions over a period of about 6 months without the LEDs and with dermarolling and needling you don't suddenly start getting results after 6 months, most results are seen within the first 6-8 weeks.

I can say WITHOUT a doubt they help me and i still believe they will benefit most if not all people when used in conjunction with scar removal techniques.

Lamarr, I am not on any kind of crusade about the LED, and I haven't even mentioned anything until this thread. I have also panned Dermabrasion and CO2 Laser on here, because they did nothing for me.

Fair enough dudley, can i ask you this though... Have you been using the LEDs in conjunction with your recent fraxel repair? and have you been getting results?

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Most sites on LLLT are trying to sell something, so as usual it's not easy to find something definitely unbiased, but most of the studies I've come across used a 820nm or 830nm wavelength for near-infrared, rather than 880nm. I'm not saying 880nm would do nothing at all, but given the research, maybe it's not the best choice?

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Lamarr, I suspended using the LED after the Repair and restarted about 2 months later. I continue to use the LED but I cannot attribute any improvement to the LED. It is kind of a ritual for me at the end of the day. I have also tried using the LED on a knee injury with no meaningful results. I firmly believe it has been the Fraxel Repair that has brought about progress, and the Dr. Roller and Copper Peptides and LED haven't shown me anything.


Dermabrasion - Full Face

CO2 Full Face 1996

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% May 22, 2008

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Jan 08, 2009

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Oct 30,2009

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Oct 08,2010

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Nov 04,2011

"The Road To Wellville" 1994

Goodloe Bender: Health! The 'open sesame' to the sucker's purse!


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I came to a different conclusion but the trouble is this technology is still relatively new for this application. I tend to rely ont he NASA studies because obviously there research has huge financing and they weren't/aren't trying to sell anything....

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Lamarr, I suspended using the LED after the Repair and restarted about 2 months later. I continue to use the LED but I cannot attribute any improvement to the LED. It is kind of a ritual for me at the end of the day. I have also tried using the LED on a knee injury with no meaningful results. I firmly believe it has been the Fraxel Repair that has brought about progress, and the Dr. Roller and Copper Peptides and LED haven't shown me anything.

Ah right fair enough then dude... What type of skin tone do you have btw? what sort of times/distance were you using the LEDs at? there are uite a few variables i.e. darker skin may require more exposure time and obviously the distance and time will determine the dose.

I don't like the way that people direct so many questions at me in my other thread.... i like people to do their own research and determine what parts of a proposed treatment will need to be tailored for them. This isn't directed at you btw, i just mean everyone is different and i think people should do their own reading on subjects to make sure they are getting the most out of their investments.

I still think the LEDs have been the key to my success and i know there are about 5 others that have said they needed them to get good results from their needling/dermaroller/peels etc.

Maybe not everyone responds but i would still recommend every to try it.

Again Dudley i am in no way trying to imply anything by my posts you seem like a nice well informed guy, so please don't take offence if anything sounds off!!

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Lamarr, I have light to medium skin tone. I use the LED 5 minute in direct application to the skin. That I am still using it tells you that I want it to work. I advocate Fraxel Repair, but it is not for everybody, it is expensive and requires 3-4 procedures to reach optimum results. Darker skin types can have problems with hyperpigmentation, and I doubt that it works on Ice Pick scars. It does seem like there is a wide variety of responses to different treatments, so I guess we all just bounce around until we find something that works.


Dermabrasion - Full Face

CO2 Full Face 1996

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% May 22, 2008

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Jan 08, 2009

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Oct 30,2009

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Oct 08,2010

Fraxel Re:pair 70 mj - 60% Nov 04,2011

"The Road To Wellville" 1994

Goodloe Bender: Health! The 'open sesame' to the sucker's purse!


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Dudley the reason i asked about skin type is because darker skin types absorb about half as much energy.... you probably absorb about 30-40% less energy (the melanin in your skin will be reflecting/absorbing about 30-40% of the energy, which in lighter skin tones would pass through). Up your treatment times bro!

Try doing ten minutes per night per area treated. Remember if your using the smaller devices i recommended 5-7 minutes per area, not for the whole face. Only if you have a full face array would you treate for 5-7 mins in total. Up your treatment time to 10 minutes bro (per area if using a smaller device).

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All i can say is that i've done self needling once without leds and then two more times after with the leds and i've gotten really good results now with the led's and terproline. I'm kind of slacking on using the leds every night but i try my best to do so. Thanks lamarr.

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All i can say is that i've done self needling once without leds and then two more times after with the leds and i've gotten really good results now with the led's and terproline. I'm kind of slacking on using the leds every night but i try my best to do so. Thanks lamarr.

If people are really truly seeing results with the LED and needling method I would love to see some sort of results, has anyone aside from Lammarr posted any pics of their treatment results?

I would consider purchasing the LEDs if I could find a number of people who can illustrate even to a small extent that their treatment is working but the problem is that no one it seems has shared images of their progress and very few people have actually said that they are sure it is working.

Forgive my scepticism but it is difficult to be optimistic when there appears to be very little out there that points towards this combined method working any better than just trying, for example, the needling and topicals.

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All i can say is that i've done self needling once without leds and then two more times after with the leds and i've gotten really good results now with the led's and terproline. I'm kind of slacking on using the leds every night but i try my best to do so. Thanks lamarr.

If people are really truly seeing results with the LED and needling method I would love to see some sort of results, has anyone aside from Lammarr posted any pics of their treatment results?

I would consider purchasing the LEDs if I could find a number of people who can illustrate even to a small extent that their treatment is working but the problem is that no one it seems has shared images of their progress and very few people have actually said that they are sure it is working.

Forgive my scepticism but it is difficult to be optimistic when there appears to be very little out there that points towards this combined method working any better than just trying, for example, the needling and topicals.

Greg09, I have been at this roughly 10 months or so..rolling and individual needling for roughly 6 months and after 6 months I added an led light. I don’t have before or after pics thou..I have just kept a written log about my experience. If people want to look at what I say as helpful that’s great, if not that’s out of my control.

When I started I had not seen any before or after pics of success. I listened to what lamarr was saying when he started talking about this....What he was saying was making sense. And the more he spoke and the more details he put out the more I felt it made sense. I did a lot of research on the science and studies of rolling, needling, led’s, topicals ect..and that way you are able to draw your own conclusions. So the combination of what lamarr said and the research I had done and continue to do was enough to convince me to go for it..

Do the research and draw your own conclusions bro. Its out there for anybody to find and read. I could sit here and have 20 people tell me derma rolling and led’s are the best thing since sliced bread, and 20 who tell me it does not work at all. And that’s exactly what you do end up getting on the forums. Mixed reviews. I did my own research in the end to draw my own conclusions. And even by doing that I still had to actually do it to truly find out and get the answers I wanted. I had done a lot of research and felt confident this was very worth doing and I believed I could get something positive out of this.

I cant tell you what anybody else has or has not achieved by doing this, only what I have achieved.

Its no quick fix. I have had certain area’s of my skin and scars respond to this treatment very well while other scars and area’s of skin have not responded very well. Remember that lamarr has been doing this much longer then I have and that’s a factor. My scarring is different then lamarrs and that’s a factor among other things.

Its an ongoing process for me. I am just going to keep at it like I have been..

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Lamarr, I had blue light for bacteria killing and red light for healing. I tried both. Both did nothing.Don't assume I have no clue what I'm talking about.

Furthermore,you can buy professional chemical peels online for 16-40 bucks and that's cheaper than treatments or buying an LED light lamp :dance:

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Chemical peels will not do shit for atrophic scars. Dermarolling and needling definitely works but it has to take time to see results. LEDs do work but it takes time, and you will not see any result until about 3 months or more. But trust me its there and i just hit the 4 month mark and now i'm seeing results just like he said.

I wish I had photos but I'm not posting any photos online and thats just something I don't want out there.

Listen, don't believe me or Lamarr, i personally don't give a damn who doesn't believe us or does. We are just trying to help, you don't want to do it then that's definitely fine with me. Why lie about something if you can purchase LEDs anywhere it doesn't have to be Ledman. Terproline is great and I highly doubt Lamarr works for Skinmed and would waste his time to try and convice people to buy it here.

LEDs do work, don't believe it? Then go research it yourself. Much information to keep you busy with that.

Night everyone had a crazy 4th of July. Its 2:54am here

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Lamarr, I had blue light for bacteria killing and red light for healing. I tried both. Both did nothing.Don't assume I have no clue what I'm talking about.

Furthermore,you can buy professional chemical peels online for 16-40 bucks and that's cheaper than treatments or buying an LED light lamp :dance:

Whoa chill out dude, unless you were having some scar revision at the same time the LEDs won't do a thing. LIKE I KEEP SAYING.

Thanks Munsoned and Mclarensupra. I know there are plenty of others out there like yourselfs who have tried everything but are finding some sort of success with this protocal. It takes a bit of initiative with this regieme and you guys seem to have it!

There are many reasons why this treatment may not work, but i believe if people do their own research and use it correctly they will get results!!

For instance a big factor i think which comes into play is people not doing the needling/dermaroller agressively enough. They then go on to say that it doesn't work, what they don't realise is they haven't even done it properly!!

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I am going to have to support Lamarr1986, Mclarensupra and Munsoned on this issue. I have seen better results after various acne scar treatment procedures when using daily LLLT (LED) photobiomodulation as opposed to when I have not used it.

I talked about LLLT close to year ago on these forums. I told people that I believe it is effective as it upregulates a number of regenerative histological processes that enhance the overall look of one's skin. As stated earlier, the results will not occur overnight, but cumulatively over a few months time. Stay disciplined, eat healthy and do not injure your skin (through needling, chemical peels, pixelated laser procedures, etc) more than once in an interval of 6-8 weeks.

For most people I have recommended doses of 4J/cm2/day.

Note: It is not difficult to calculate LLLT device output in Joules (J). These devices use LEDs that each have a power output rated in Watts. After taking note of this information, measure how many LEDs there are within a square cm. Then use the formula provided below to calculate the time it takes for you LLLT device to emit a 4J/cm2 dose of light energy: (1 W = 1J/s), where [W is a Watt], [J is a Joule] and [s is a second]. You will re-write the formula as follows: (s = J/W)

For example, if one light emitting diode (LED) on your device has a power rating of 0.0064W and there are 4 of these diodes in a cm2, then the formula becomes: (s = J/(W x 4)), and thus you would calculate accordingly, s = 1J/0.0064W x 4 = 1J/0.0256 = 39.0625 seconds for 1J of energy. We now know that after the device is turned on it takes ~39 seconds for it to emit 1 Joule of light energy. Thus for it to emit 4 Joules of energy we have to make a final step, which is to multiply 39 seconds by 4. The result is ~156 seconds.

In summary, for the fictitious device I made up above in order to illustrate the way to calculate a dose of 4J/cm2, it would take 156 seconds to give the necessary light to achieve proper daily photobiomodulation stimulation of the illuminated skin. Remember, keep the LEDs right up against your skin, because even at a few centimetres distance the energy reaching your dermis drops significantly. Also keep your skin clean and free of lotions during an LLLT session.

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Thanks BGD, Your very respected on here and it is nice to have your support.

I have worked out the doses for the LED mans devices using a similar formula as above, but i factored in the 20 degree viewing angle of the leds and distance.

I have had a high powered LED array for about 2 years now and i have used it for numerous problems. Helped my mums joint pain, my dads hayfever and all sorts. They most certainly aid any type of wound healing. I wouldn't be without it...

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