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Liver flushes


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#101 Locnar

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 08:58 AM

QUOTE(animegirle @ Jun 18 2004, 06:00 AM)
Feel free to start a post listing your beliefs regarding holistic medicine. I was contacted by members of this board in regard to this post, they felt like it had strayed from the realm of information into an argument. I stand behind my statements, if you want to debate/argue the validity of liver flushing/etc please do so in the appropriate forum.

So, why in your original post, did you start out by questioning the very notion of debunking liver flushing. I don't think I've made any personal attacks. You also seem to be defending liver flushing.
QUOTE
Why is it so difficult to believe that this method is proving successful for some?


I guess what I'm asking, is that am I allowed to question the validity of liver flushing at all? Can I post links to medical sources that debunk them. Or is that too argumentative? This thread started as a question of the validity of liver flushing. I'm just concerned that the compliants all stem from liver flushing advocates who just don't like thier views challenged at all.

If you feel we've violated board rules, I can accept that. If the intent is to create a "safe space" for liver flushing advocates, that seems wrong. We didn't jump in on a thread that was discussing liver flushing techniques and start bashing it, this thread asked about the validity.

I'm truly not trying to be a jerk here, just trying to understand where you are coming from.

#102 animegirle

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 09:09 AM

Of course you are allowed to question methods, equating people's beliefs/results from liver flushing with someone's belief in "little green men" is taking it a bit far. You can read these past few pages and easily see feathers are ruffled. I just think that debates can occur without people feeling like they are being attacked on a personal level.

There is no "safe space" for liver flushing advocates, civil debate is fine, personal attacks are not. I am not laying this at your doorstep, I have seen the attacks coming from both sides. I am just asking people to be nice about posting their views. It is that simple.

#103 Denise2

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 09:33 AM

Sam: In a nutshell, your intestines have a mucous lining. When someone ingests something that the body deems poisonous, the intestines secrete a mucous material to surround the offending toxin to keep it from poisoning the body. It could be toxic residue from food, chemicals, synthetic drugs, etc......

Over time, this mucous, if it is not removed from the body, can develop into something called mucoid plaque. This plaque is hard as tire rubber and is usually black.

This mucous material (before it hardens and ofcourse after it becomes plaque) clogs up our intestines. Well functioning intestinal tracts push food through, but at times becomes so burdened with all of this material, it just becomes a toxic waste dump, essentially.

Here is a link for anyone interested in reading more:

http://www.cleanse.n...coid_plaque.HTM

#104 Sam The Man

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 09:59 AM

Thank you for the link Denise2 (is there a Denise1?)

This guy in there seems to say that meat is not good for you and your intestens. I just can't understand how something that the human animal has been eating millions of years could be so unhealthy.

And then when you see pages like this : http://www.cleanse.n..._about_meat.HTM you seem to wonder if the rest of the "facts" in there are valid or not.

In another thread I was said that testosterone levels will rise eating a high carb diet and now I'm told that meat and dairy are very bad for you and your intestens and that will cause acne. So what exactly am I suppose to eat?

And anybody concerned about high protein intake, here is an article about that : http://www.sportsnut...riptMay2004.pdf

#105 Bailey

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 12:14 PM

Hey Denise, quick question. I'm doing a MC right now..will I still pass muciod plaque without P&B shakes??? Or do you think I should start the shakes?

#106 Denise2

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 02:18 PM

Hey Sam: I understand the confusion!!!! :o :blink: :unsure:

It does seem that meat is a mucous forming food, along with sugar and dairy. Now here is the thing; I'm not sure that it's the meat per se; maybe it's the toxic residue from hormones and other things they put in meat that make them toxic. I admit there are conflicting views on this. I still eat meat; I even eat red meat sometimes. I eat vegetarian some days because I do think that relying on things like beans and legumes for protein make a healthy diet. I do know that if you ever do colon cleansing, it's quite shocking what you pass..... :eek: I have passed mucoid plaque..... :neutral: I was doing an extended fast and on the 15th day, I did pass some....EEEEWWWWW!

When I got my colonics (I got one today, too) I'm astonished at how much gunk is in the colon; just sitting undigesting and fermenting and decaying.

So the bottom line is that everyone's body is different. I can say that I've read (who knows if it's true) that Irish and Native Americans have a genetic propensity towards low hydrochloric acid in the stomach, making digestion harder. I have both Irish and Native American blood. I do know that on my mother's side where there is Native blood, that there is an awful lot of acne. So perhaps there is some kind of genetic thing there, I'm not sure at all! I'm still learning too. But I can speak from some experience because 15 years ago, I started searching for answers myself when I figured out that the derms just didn't know what they were doing. I am reading The Maker's Diet, and I believe it contains a lot of really good keys to eating well. The author emphasizes eating a lot of fermented (pre-digested) foods as one important key. But he advocates eating organic meat. I like the guy and respect him; he was at death's door and weighed 104 pounds from terrible colitis and various other diseases that kept him from eating or digesting food. He was literally dying when he began a regimen that healed him. I take a lot of his supplements.

Anyway....there are lots of things to consider, and I certainly don't know all the answers. I do know that dairy and sugar seem to do me in. I'm not sure about meat. I think that the dairy is so bad because it's homogenized and all the enzymes are killed; the enzymes are so necessary for digestion and assimilation, and I'm not sure that by supplementing the enzymes you get what you need to digest it fully. After all, nature provides proper assimilation automatically, we just take it away by heating it. Baby cows, when fed homogenized milk, DIE. :eek: Many cultures in the world drink raw and fermented milk; both cows' and goats' and seem to be perfectly healthy.

So I'm not sure what to tell ya, bub. A good program to remove all this gunk is always helpful; colonics do the best job imho. I would say that if you can pinpoint what seems to aggravate your acne, more power to you. Don't eliminate things like meat unless you are sure it is mucous forming (I just don't know that it is for everyone). Try to eat a clean diet with lots of fruits and veggies, and eat sprouted grain bread if possible (Ezekiel bread is great, and very tasty). Eat junk occasionally but try to keep clean. Everyone is different and our bodies are all different.

I know that is a speech, but I'm not sure what else to tell you. I try to keep an open mind and I'm constantly trying to be balanced in what I say and how I live my own life. I try not to be too fanatical because I sure as heck don't know EVERYTHING.

Hey Bailey; I think if you are really interested in removing plaque, you really should use bentonite. I was literally just talking to my hydrotherapist today about this. Bentonite is one of the keys to pulling it out. So keep up the p&b shakes if you can.

#107 Locnar

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 06:47 PM

QUOTE(animegirle @ Jun 18 2004, 07:56 AM)
Of course you are allowed to question methods, equating people's beliefs/results from liver flushing with someone's belief in "little green men" is taking it a bit far. You can read these past few pages and easily see feathers are ruffled. I just think that debates can occur without people feeling like they are being attacked on a personal level.

There is no "safe space" for liver flushing advocates, civil debate is fine, personal attacks are not. I am not laying this at your doorstep, I have seen the attacks coming from both sides. I am just asking people to be nice about posting their views. It is that simple.

Thanks for the clarification. I guess I can see your point. It just sounded like you were laying it all at the feet of the skeptics in your original post. I'll take your point under consideration.

#108 evan3037

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Posted 21 June 2004 - 05:23 PM

well milk thistle works to cleanse your liver and kidneys while on AAS