Posted 13 June 2004 - 09:33 PM
Posted 14 June 2004 - 06:31 AM
Posted 14 June 2004 - 07:29 AM
Krista, I will say again that it can't hurt to try it. My acne is gone. And so is many other's here. Dr. Weil never says it will harm you to try it. He never mentions any proof in the form of a study or any lab tests, so to me it sounds more like an opinion. And the green globbs he mentioned, turn to tan and then to black the more you flush... why doesn't he provide proof. Folk remedies often work, as your naturopath will tell you.
Posted 14 June 2004 - 07:44 AM
Also, when the liver and gallbladder are cleared of all stones, no more stones are released. If stones were formed from olive oil, this would continue to be the case even after the liver is clean. But this isn't so. After my 12th cleanse I had no more stones. When I did a 13th cleanse 4 years later, I still had no stones, not suprising given my diet and lifestyle. And I had released over 3,500. All stones were packed with bacteria that produced a horrendous smell. Olive oil is bacteria-static and therefore does not support living bacteria. Bacteria only go where there is decaying organic matter. Anyone who says that olive oil turns into stones has no knowlege of basic biochemistry and digestive functions.
Written by Andreas Moritz
Posted 14 June 2004 - 07:50 AM
Sorry, but dermatologists and estheticians couldn't EVER clear or control my acne, but cleansing my bowel and flushing my liver DID.
Again; no one, YOURSELF INCLUDED can explain how on earth olive oil turns into "stones" without the presence of lye (the only agent that hardens oil under extreme conditions and temperatures.)
Sorry, but your posts don't mean squat. I posted an actual lab report CONFIRMING the presence of calcified stones. Please.....don't continue this game unless you can explain how oil turns into stones.
Again....I don't put my trust and faith in doctors as they didn't do anything but severely damage my health by keeping me on antibiotics for many years in a PATHETIC, PITIFUL attempt to control my acne; I became very sick with liver toxicity and candida overgrowth. These same dermatologists still keep people on antibiotics TO THIS FREAKIN' DAY and swear it helps control acne; meanwhile, people are suffering because of a lack of knowledge these so-called "skin experts" possess. I have an internet friend who has been on Accutane TWICE, and he is breaking out again. So with all his liver tests, HORRIFIC side effects, years on antibiotics, etc....he isn't clear. Sorry, but these derms are only doing what they have been taught, and it doesn't work for everybody, OBVIOUSLY. And, like everyone else says, what harm can it do? I have passed tan, light green, dark green, and white stones. Some have been totally flattened or crushed (deflated looking) by taking Gold Coin Grass.....how come you didn't explain that. You see Krista......you keep cutting and pasting Dr. Weil's opinions, but seem to not be able to explain or answer the questions I posted, as if people have forgotten that I asked them. You see Krista, once I did my own research, I found that everything made sense. Julia Chang at www.sensiblehealth.com is a bio-chemist and one of the smartest people I've ever spoken with. I would put her up against Dr. Weil or any other doctor any day of the week. Her website is articulate and explains a lot of the issues pertaining to liver function anyway. Thanks, but I'll take HER advice.
Sorry, but the opinion of dermatologists and doctors doesn't impress me, therefore, your cut and paste jobs don't, either. I was already aware of Dr. Weil's opinion on this issue anyway.
Unless and until people begin to do their own research and ask/answer the TOUGH questions, they will continue to listen to fallible men who don't have a clue that the liver and bowel and are the key to skin health. This is the biggest DUH in the world. Until people begin to take charge of their own health and stop their unnecessary doctor worship, they will continue to suffer and be in pain. Doctors are great for trauma care, but fall way short of treating chronic conditions.
Posted 14 June 2004 - 11:15 AM
Krista, thankyou for the link you provided, re: Dr Weir.
Ok, so after the reading a researching that Ive done, it seems that the complication I should worry about most is a stone becoming stuck in a duct.
So, my next logical question was "How often does this happen, and what are the repercussions of this".
So, I called my doc.
Now, part of the problem is there are NO studies or data on how often stones become lodged due to liver flushing. Stones become stuck all the time, but the question remains, did they move and become lodged due to the flush....or would they have moved and lodged anyhow. Many people have suffered from the agony of a stuck stone (and there are many health repercussions of this, some of them are life threatenintg) that have never even heard of a liver flush....let alone attempted to do one. And there are people who have presented at the ER with a stuck stone that have performed flushes.
So, my doc says, the possibility exsists of ending up with complications due to a stuck stone wether I liver flush or not. It can happen either way. However, could I be taking an extra risk by doing the flush? He simply didnt know....and he said it would be extremely difficult to find reliable scientific data to support or disprove either claim, because very little info exsists when it comes to homeopathic remedies or cures. They have not been put through standard trials or studies like medications or other treatments have, nor do they have a "watchdog" (so to speak) like the FDA. As an example he asked me to look into how long St Johns Wort has been used,(many, many years) and the many things it has been used for. And then, look into how long it has been studied and put through double-blind trials.(not nearly as many years as its been used) It was only after the trials occured that the information on side-effects and incidence of occurance, became available to the general public.
I feel pretty trusting in my doctor, because he can and does support alternative medical choices if they have data to back them up that they are safe. When I told him during my pregnancy that I was going to get a midwife and have a home birth, he was 100% supportive, where many doctors are not. He actually provided me with information and stats showing that during an uncomplicated pregnancy, home birth is likely the safer alternative. So, I know he doesnt completely rule out health choices just because they are not the norm, or they are considered holistic, homeopathic, or even wives tales.
It was his opinion, and he stressed it was only his....that it is impossible to make an informed decision based on the information I have available to me.
LOL...So Im back to square one with trying to decide wether to take the risk or not.
He did provide me with all the information I need in how to tell if I have a stuck stone, and at this point, Im thinking I may try the flush. If nothing terribly uncomfortable happens, I would probably go forward and try it again with the understanding that one flush is not going to cure all evils.
Back to my quest.
Thanks to most of you for some very thought provoking information. I truly appreciate it.
Posted 14 June 2004 - 11:29 AM
Posted 14 June 2004 - 11:50 AM
The risk of surgery is something that I take very seriously, hence my reason for looking for possible alternatives. Im not scared of surgery itself....Ive had a few, and I based my decision on a quality of life issue.
As an example I can offer this:
4 years ago I had a partial hysterectomy, at the age of 30. It took me many years to finally take this last resort step, and I had tried everything under the sun....but it still boiled down to a quality of life issue for me. I had tried different medical approaches including medication, diet and lifestyle changes, and I enlisted the help of the midwife I had used for my pregnancy and birth who credits herself very pro-womens health and anti-medical establishment. I worked with her for almost 2 years but still suffered from uncontrollable bleeding.
I tried a milder surgical intervention that they dubbed balloon therapy....still didnt work.
I finally submitted to the hysterectomy,(uterus only) and was oh so glad that I did. The only side effect....I cant have any more kids. LOL...didnt bother me, hubby and I already have 4 and I certainly wasnt itching to have any more. My quality of life improved tenfold.
Ive just come to a basic understanding that sometimes alternatives work for some people, and sometimes they dont. Sometimes surgery offers the best possible outcome, but I do have the understanding that it is not without possible risk.
I tend to discredit or steer away from anyone who offers information that either surgery or alternatives can offer me a guaranteed fix.
My biggest understanding is that there are no guarantees of any kind.
Posted 14 June 2004 - 11:56 AM
You may want to read about the tips, procedures, FAQ, and progress report of a liver flusher in this forum - go to:
JC posts quite a bit in the forums and it's a very interesting profile. Worth a read (or two).
Posted 14 June 2004 - 12:09 PM
Ive also done so much reading at curezone that my eyes are getting tired.
Im finding that theres lots of information available, its just a matter of weeding through it all.
Posted 14 June 2004 - 12:11 PM
The fact that you have had "female problems" just shows that your liver is congested!
Did you go to the sensiblehealth website and read it?
Good grief....just look at your own health history.....it points to liver congestion with probable intrahepatic (cholesterol) stones.
For the life of me....I don't understand why anyone would rather risk not having a gallbladder verses flushing the stones out. The fact of the matter is, you can take GCG to crush the stones; but most importantly.....the risk of getting a stone stuck is about the same as getting struck by lightening. The fact that people fear having a stuck stone (which usually isn't a big deal....do another flush, take some Gold Coin Grass) ABOVE the risks involved with complications from not having a gallbladder is frightening imho. I mean....truly frightening. :eek:
Posted 14 June 2004 - 12:17 PM
JC states that a healthy liver is vital to good skin.
Im sitting here wondering why I have gallstones, I mean, my understanding is that they begin formation in the liver, leading me to believe that my liver is probably not at peak efficiency, (holy cow...never even mind the junk I poured into my body for years. I loved sugar and fat. I lived on french-fries during my teenage years)
However...I dont have, and have never had bad skin.
This certainly raises questions for me.
Geez...do you understand where Im going with this line of thinking? Or do I need to put more thought into the way I present the questions....?
Posted 14 June 2004 - 12:24 PM
I have read *some* of the info on sensible health website, but not as much as I would like to. Its just a time issue. LOL...one computer, 4 kids who demand equal time from both me and the computer. Heehee..these days, while they are in school, with all the reading and typing im doing, hubby's convinced I want uis all to become nudists, cuz the laundry sure isnt getting done.
You brought up an interesting point though, one that Im going to have a look at.
My health history and the probability of it being linked to liver congestion.
Im not sure my past *female probs* are a result of a congested liver, but I certainly cant rule it out either.
Holy crow....and the plot thickens.... :eek:
Posted 14 June 2004 - 12:26 PM
LOTS of people in my family have bad skin; very bad, even. It is very dominant on my mother's side of the family where there is native american blood. Personally, I believe it's many factors, but the bottom line is that if you don't have the genes to point you toward acne, you probably won't get it.
Posted 14 June 2004 - 12:45 PM
So, in your opinion, could a person who has a predisposition towards acne (or other problems) still aquire the problem regardless of the state of their liver?
I can apply some of this line of thinking to my own case as gallstones have been proven to have a heredity factor. Oddly enough, same goes with the female probs. My grandma had a hysterectomy for the same reason I did, in her 40's. My mom suffered the same problems, but opted to put up with the bleeding as she was fairly close to menopause, and the surgery and recovery time not only scared her but she didnt want to work it into her lifestyle. (time off work, etc)
Now...my grandma had 5 kids, 3 girls, 2 boys. My mom and her one sister experienced the same female prob stuff. One didnt...but, she never had any pregnancies, whereas my mom and her sister did.
I dont know if theres a link, if any of its related....but its certainly worth looking at.
Posted 14 June 2004 - 01:29 PM
Your blasts...I mean comments...are well taken. The reason why I quote Dr. Weil is I feel his extensive background in medicine...traditional and alternative... is well grounded in facts. I do not even pretend to know all the fine intricacies that go one within the body, because that is not my discipline.
However, I am convinced from reading Dr. Weil's book "Spontaneous Healing" that the body is capable of healing itself, through eating the proper foods, etc. Finding the right combination is the key...Thank you for all of your insights...Peace...out.
Posted 14 June 2004 - 02:21 PM
I just wish I knew of how large the possibility of getting a stone stuck really was. Being offered information that "being struick by lightening, or getting into a car accident" does nothing to appease that question for me.
If I stand out on a golf course, with a lightning rod pointed at the sky...my chances increase of that happening, but if I stay in the house during a lightening storm...my chances markedly decrease of being struck. If I drive like a demon with a car that has bad brakes, again, I have increased my risk of that happening. If I follow the rules of the road, drive a safe car and follow all precautionary measures, yes it could still happen, but I have significantly decreased my risk.
Im just looking for ways to significantly decrease my risk of anything negative happening. I dont think that makes me anything but someone who cares very much about their body.
Posted 14 June 2004 - 02:44 PM
I also found a quote here (http://www.kitchendo...allbladder.html)
saying that ER docs have a quota of surgeries to fill. Highly laughable and just not true.
Sorting through the misleading and inflated claims is really difficult, and there are many.
While I do think that there may be some basis to thinking that a liver flush may help certain conditions, Im just not convinced (yet) that it does all the things that some claim it does. And Im even more hesitant about becoming my own guinea pig to find out.
If the risks are few enough, and any side effects that are worth noting are not considerable, I may give it a try. :eek:
But, I would rather do the research FIRST rather than wasting a considerable amount of time playing games with my body, if the only thing thats going to ensure that I never have another serious gallstone attack again is surgery. Im telling ya, Ive had 4 kids...all of them with no pain relievers of any kind, and Id gladly go through that again, x10, before I suffered another attack.
Pain like that Ive just never experiencerd before. I think Id only wish it on the absolute worst of humanity.
Posted 14 June 2004 - 05:41 PM
No doubt, some might find it mildly offensive as it calls into question the beliefs that many have formed.
While I feel I havent slanted my views in either arena, I do believe people should be offered information from both sides of each argument, and then be allowed to make up their own minds.
Interesting reading and a different point of view
Posted 14 June 2004 - 05:52 PM
As for everyone's comments about the curing of Aids, I'll just say that I don't believe that flushing your liver can "cure" Aids. What I can say is that flushing stones out of the liver causes all other bodily functions to function as they are supposed to; particulary the immune system. The cause of this is probably either two or threefold. First, when the bile ducts are clogged, this causes a chain reaction in the body of the lessening of the function of other vital organs, particularly the spleen. I recall talking to Julia Chang about why allergies clear up and she connected that to the spleen functioning properly once stones are expelled. She even went on to tell me that she had a client do a flush on their 4 year old, because she had such a severe allergic reaction to peanuts, and she almost died on several occasions. When flushing her liver, she expelled between 30-40 chickpea size stones, and her allergies totally went away. As for myself, I have stated many times here that I had very severe chemical allergies. It was difficult for me to be in craft stores and be around the plastic plants. Gas fumes, bleach, household cleaners all made my eyes burn and I would get nauseas and dizzy. This is all totally gone since I have flushed my liver. Also, one very important thing to remember is that stones harbor live virsus and bacteria. I remember this dude who posts under the username "Mr. Cooties" at Curezone saying that after a particular flush, his severe body odor and acne totally left. Keep in mind that he had taken all kinds of pharmecuetical drugs and been to many, many doctors over the years. He tried all kinds of things to control his body odor also. I remember when he posted this, he made the comment that since the stones harbored bacteria, he assumed that this is why his body odor left. He said the stones he passed smelled awful, and if you'll note in an earlier post, Andreas says the same thing.
So the bottom line is that liver flushing boosts the immune system on various levels. A heightened and normalized immune system can be helpful with treating aids or any other virus.