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#21 Keats

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Posted 11 June 2004 - 03:19 AM

QUOTE(Bailey @ Jun 10 2004, 06:03 PM)
QUOTE(Keats @ Jun 10 2004, 02:03 PM)
Well.. of what I dont understand is that the liver flush prescription on sensiblehealth does not include epsoms. It is mainly based on apple juice and the olive oil/grapefruit juice..

So epsom salt isnt really necessary according to them. Thats why I still have a sort of internal dilemma; using epsoms or not.. which one should I try?

WHAT??? Epsom salt is key! I've never heard of a liver flush without epsom. They open the bile ducts..and it's the laxative of the whole thing. How else are you gonna (pardon my blunt-ness) poop?!?!

I'll have to go to the site you said..later though..I'm short on time right now.

Well... doesnt the malic acid in apple juice do the same? or... ?

#22 DuMaurier

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Posted 11 June 2004 - 06:32 AM

QUOTE(Bailey @ Jun 10 2004, 07:41 AM)
Go to http://curezone.com/...ver/default.asp and do Dr, Hulda Clark's recipe.  That's the more popular one.  Well, they are pretty much all the same.  Anyways, try it.  It can't hurt..and it's really easy.  Check with your doctor first if you are really worried about it.

Here's an excerpt from that site: "Bowel cleanse & Liver/gallbladder cleanse (together with parasites cleanse) is really the most simple way to start curing acne, high cholesterol, eczema, psoriasis, asthma, allergies, gallstones, food intolerance, shoulder pain, abdominal pain, upper back pain, arm pain, gallstones attack, liver pain, gallbladder pain, hypertension, cardiovascular diseases, heartburn, bloating, inflammatory bowel disease IBD, IBS, colitis, constipation, cancer, AIDS, MS, FMS, MSC, CFIDS/CFS, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's disease, epilepsy, seizures, osteoporosis, angina pectoris... Read and learn how to help yourself ! "


rolleyes.gif I think some of the claims should raise a few red flags.

#23 juliemarie

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Posted 11 June 2004 - 08:27 AM

DuMaurier, all those claims DO [B] raise a flag for me.
Im not saying that the claims dont have any basis at all, I was just looking for information on side effects or possible drawbacks.

I apologize for ruffling anyones feathers due to posing my liver flush questions relating to gallbladder in an acne forum.
I figured that if I was going to hunt for somewhat reliable information on flushes, it was best to explore all avenues, not just ask questions of people who are absolute supporters of liver cleansing/flushing.
It came to my attention, through a search, that people perform flushes for a variety of reasons, not just gallbladder issues, and there are dozens of forums in which people post about their experience. In my mind, it doesnt matter if the flush is performed for the purpose of attempting to deal with acne, gallstones or any other reason....a flush is a flush. Who better to ask than people who have done them?
It stood to reason in my mind that even though I was getting nothing but positive feedback in gallbladder related forums, that maybe since there were others performing flushes (for whatever reason) that I might be able to gain some information that I hadnt previously been able to find.
I am not pro-surgery, or pro-holistic medicine. I am simply a regular person who likes to be
fullyinformed before I take part in a treatment that I know very little about. I wouldnt submit to surgery either without taking into consideration, all the possible side effects and consequences, and the rate at which they occur.
I guess one of my biggest concerns,(with a flush), the one that started me looking for possible drawbacks...are that I could find none. The only risk anyone has told me about in relation to flushes is the possibility of a stone becoming stuck or lodged, but I have no idea how often this happens, or what the repurcussions of that are. And oddly, when I ask for information about this kind of thing, people seem to get very defensive about my questions. Its sorta like the Atkins Diet craze. I could find thousands of people who are avid supporters of the diet and will tell you all about their sucess....but it doesnt neccesarily mean that the Atkins Diet is a good thing. Im
not[B]saying its bad, Im simply saying I need more information before I can make what I consider an informed decision.

Anyhow, again I apologize for posing a question in an acne forum, unrelated to acne. That seems to be a forum-faux-pas that I wasnt aware of.

Take care,

Julie

#24 edenfield

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Posted 11 June 2004 - 08:40 AM

malic acid helps break down old stagnant bile/

sensiblehealth.com has alot of information too

#25 Guest_Tracy_*

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Posted 11 June 2004 - 10:00 AM

QUOTE(jc @ Jun 10 2004, 10:18 PM)
QUOTE(Bailey @ Jun 10 2004, 08:03 PM)
I've never heard of a liver flush without epsom.

I NEVER used epsoms anymore for my flushes! :eh: :mrgreen:

You big sissy!! razz.gif

#26 Bailey

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Posted 11 June 2004 - 10:12 AM

QUOTE(juliemarie @ Jun 11 2004, 08:14 AM)
In my mind, it doesnt matter if the flush is performed for the purpose of attempting to deal with acne, gallstones or any other reason....a flush is a flush. Who better to ask than people who have done them?

Ok, and we're telling you that they are worth trying...so what's stopping you?

Like I said, use epsom and you won't have to worry about a stone getting stuck. (Plus, that never happens..even without the epsom.)

You're not fuffling our feathers (as you like to put it), you're asking and we're telling you our experiences..but you keep bringing up these "red flags". If you don't want to do it then don't do it. It's as simple as that.

Anyways, it can't hurt. If you don't believe that it will "cure" all the things it said it will..then that's another story. But it won't "hurt" you in any way. Plus, in order to achieve those kind of results, you need to do about 14 flushes..and you don't seem that dedicated to do it that many times. I mean, it's not going to "cure" anything in just one flush if that's what you're thinking.

#27 jc

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Posted 11 June 2004 - 11:50 AM

QUOTE(Tracy76567 @ Jun 11 2004, 11:47 AM)
You big sissy!!  razz.gif

user posted image

#28 Ebby

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Posted 11 June 2004 - 12:09 PM

I've done three successful flushes so far and haven't used epsom salts; I KNEW that I would puke that stuff up right away, so I did some research and found that others have used magnesium citrate instead--that has worked for me and tastes sooooooo much better going down. Also, on my first flush I literally gagged down the oil and lemon juice (chasing each dose of oil w/lemon juice) and I was sick for two days afterwards. After that, I used Hulda Clark's recipe, mixing the oil and grapefruit juice; it actually tasted pretty good and I didn't even feel any nausea afterwards. One BIG mistake that I did make on my first three flushes that I am now aware of is that I didn't take a mineral supplement to replenish what was lost in the flush. I started getting soooooo tired and picked up viruses constantly; I've started supplementing and I'm feeling much better already.

I'm going to keep on flushin' till they're ALL gone!!

#29 Lydia

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Posted 11 June 2004 - 05:35 PM

QUOTE(jc @ Jun 11 2004, 06:37 PM)
QUOTE(Tracy76567 @ Jun 11 2004, 11:47 AM)
You big sissy!!   razz.gif

user posted image

Is that.... that's horrible! Where do you get these crazy things from? :eek:

#30 jc

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Posted 11 June 2004 - 07:14 PM

I have no idea! shock.gif

#31 Scotty_G

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Posted 11 June 2004 - 07:57 PM

I'm doing another liver cleanse tomorrow (#3!) I can't decide if i'm going to use the epsoms though.

#32 DuMaurier

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Posted 11 June 2004 - 09:12 PM

QUOTE(juliemarie @ Jun 11 2004, 07:14 AM)
DuMaurier, all those claims [b]DO [B] raise a flag for me.
Im not saying that the claims dont have any basis at all, I was just looking for information on side effects or possible drawbacks.

I apologize for ruffling anyones feathers due to posing my liver flush questions relating to gallbladder in an acne forum.
I figured that if I was going to hunt for somewhat reliable information on flushes, it was best to explore all avenues, not just ask questions of people who are absolute supporters of liver cleansing/flushing.

Anyhow, again I apologize for posing a question in an acne forum, unrelated to acne. That seems to be a forum-faux-pas that I wasnt aware of.

Take care,

Julie

I wasn't bitching at all about the fact that you posted about this in an acne forum, I was just pointing out that when some of the proponents of "liver flushes" claim it can cure AIDS, cancer, Alzheimer's, I would really be wary....

#33 krista

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Posted 11 June 2004 - 10:20 PM

JulieMarie,
I understand your hesistancy in following through with the flush, because I have been skeptical. However, since I was so desperate with my acne problems; I decided I might try it since their were so many positive testimonies. However, I found from a reliable source that the "liver flush" may not be the best choice. Dr. Andrew Weil gives his opinion, that is backed up by research.

"But there are no natural ways to "remove" gallstones. The olive oil “treatment� you mention does not dissolve or remove them. This folk remedy, known as a "liver flush," requires drinking apple juice, Epsom salts, and a half-cup of olive oil with lemon juice. The day after you manage to down the olive oil, you pass green globs that you may think are dissolved gallstones but are actually the residue of the olive oil you've consumed.

Instead, try these steps to prevent gallstone formation or further attacks:

Reduce your fat intake to 25 percent of your daily calories. Restrict your dietary cholesterol consumption to no more than 300 mg a day.
Limit your intake of sugar, which may promote gallstone formation by affecting lipoprotein metabolism.
Increase your fiber intake, and substitute soy protein for animal protein in your diet.

Many studies have suggested that these changes may help prevent gallstones."

http://www.drweil.co...uestionId=16253

#34 Denise2

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Posted 12 June 2004 - 10:25 AM

Krista: As respected as Dr. Weil IS, he is just wrong on this topic, for many reasons. First and foremost, olive oil doesn't just "harden" or become congealed by sheer force and strength of will. Oil hardens under very strict circumstances. Saponification only happens with the presence of lye. I have already provided links and posts on this. Secondly, there comes a point in time when people stop passing intrahepatic and gallstones. Why would this occur if it is just hardened oil or "soap stones"? Thirdly, some people havn't even used olive oil and have flushed out stones (by consuming large amounts of fat, which causes liver contraction). Some people have removed stones after doing extended fasting (the body tends to store bile during fasting, and once eating resumes, the stones are pushed out of bile ducts.)

And on top of that, I have taken Gold Coin Grass and have passed stones that were completely flattened like a pancake (GCG is known to crush and flatten stones for easy removal out of the bile ducts). How could olive oil achieve such a feat? What...it hardens then flattens itself? You see...this doesn't even make sense.

If you havn't done liverflushes for yourself and seen the benefits that all fine, well, and good, but please don't infer that the rest of us don't know what we are talking about, and that the medical doctors DO. They drop the ball so many times and are full of so much misinformation it's pathetic. Derms still keep people on antibiotics indefinately and think that it does no harm. Doctors also had millions of women on HRT for 20 plus years saying that it cured just about everything under the sun. I wonder how many women got breast cancer due to this kind of tripe being preached to them.

If you want to listen to doctors that is all fine, well, and good, but there are enough people who have had ultrasounds to prove that their stones were removed through liverflushing, and I have spoken to many of them.

http://www.angelheal...nePictures.html

#35 Amoira

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Posted 12 June 2004 - 12:09 PM

I'd like to add something to the argument that olive oil created the stones...

I have done around 10-11 flushes. Since #8 the stones have come out progressively darker. They say the darker ones are the older ones. Why would this happen?? The 9th one I had 8 huge brown stones, and this last time I had many large and small black stones. the first several, I only had green with the occational tan. Why would that be? No I didn't take pictures. I have no need to PROVE this to anyone. I am doing this for myself and not anyone else. I have some new pictures of the progression of my skin improvments. I only started the pictures 2 months ago. My acne is gone now. It really stopped coming about 4 or so months ago when I started cleansing my system. So the acne is not there but the obvious red marks from the acne are still there. There has been a very rapid improvment, and I no longer break out but once in a great while.. ie during PMS.

http://f2.pg.photos....m/wavycurly2000

My question is WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU CUT OUT AN ORGAN before trying a much milder alternative?? Shouldn't surgery be the very last resort? My thought is that all the organs serve an important purpose, not to mention the trauma to your body from being cut open and carved at? Please go deep inside and ask yourself, "what harm could it do to try"? You have heard from many that it brought about good results.

Also, if my city water was so dangerous to my body, I'd move in a big hurry, but that's just me.

#36 DuMaurier

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Posted 12 June 2004 - 05:56 PM

The "stones" resulting from "liver flushes" are actually hardened faecal matter. Nothing more, nothing less.

Anyone considering "liver flushes" might be interested in some further reading on Hulda Clark: Hulda Clark

#37 Bailey

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Posted 12 June 2004 - 10:59 PM

I don't care what it is. It can't hurt to get it out. Am I right?

#38 Amoira

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 08:55 AM

That could only be said, regarding it being bm rather then stones, by someone who hasn't ever flushed. When you see this stuff you will understand that you are incorrect. But since you never will, c'est la vie.

Either way my skin looks great, and I am very happy I found something that works.

#39 Denise2

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 01:26 PM

So I guess those 3 white, calicified stones that were almost as hard as rocks were b.m. too....gimmee a break. rolleyes.gif :eek: :smile:

#40 krista

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 07:11 PM

Denise2,
F.Y.I., I have had acne since I was 12 years old and have not visited a dermatologist. I am in search for something that will heal my body and balance my body systems. I am not trying to discount the "liver flush." I would just be weary of it...since Dr. Weil suggests otherwise.

Currently, I am visiting a chinese medical doctor and hope to visit a homeopathic doctor, if the oriental medicine doesn't work.

Also, I would like to add that Dr. Weil, M.D.'s opinion is extremely respected, because he is a graduate of Harvard Medical School, is a Clinical Professor of Medicine at the University of Arizona and the director of the program of Integrative Medicine at that institution. He is also the founder of the Foundation for Integrative Medicine in Tucson, Arizona and author of eight books...



"Is There a Natural Way to Get Rid of Gallstones?

I read about a natural remedy for dissolving gallstones that involves drinking olive oil and lemon juice. What is your opinion of this approach? Are there any other natural means of removing gallstones?

-- Len

Today's Answer
(Published 11/29/2001)
Most gallstones are composed of cholesterol and can cause intense pain if they get stuck while trying to pass from the gallbladder, where they form, into the bile duct, where they pass to your small intestine. Gallstone symptoms include nausea and vomiting as well as pain, often spreading from the upper right abdomen to the back.

Most people with gallstones — about 60 percent — never develop symptoms and may never know they have them since the larger stones actually stay put in the gallbladder. Individuals at greatest risk of developing gallstones include women, particularly those who are middle-aged and overweight; diabetics; those whose mothers had gallstones; pregnant women or those taking birth control pills; those with high triglyceride levels; anyone who has lost a lot of weight quickly; and Native Americans (especially Pima Indians) and those of Scandinavian background.

If you have had intense and frequent gallbladder attacks, you may need surgery to remove your gallbladder. However, you may be able to avoid surgery by adopting the lifestyle and dietary measures I recommend below, which help to prevent gallstone formation as well as recurrent attacks.

But there are no natural ways to "remove" gallstones. The olive oil “treatment� you mention does not dissolve or remove them. This folk remedy, known as a "liver flush," requires drinking apple juice, Epsom salts, and a half-cup of olive oil with lemon juice. The day after you manage to down the olive oil, you pass green globs that you may think are dissolved gallstones but are actually the residue of the olive oil you've consumed.

Instead, try these steps to prevent gallstone formation or further attacks:

Reduce your fat intake to 25 percent of your daily calories. Restrict your dietary cholesterol consumption to no more than 300 mg a day.
Limit your intake of sugar, which may promote gallstone formation by affecting lipoprotein metabolism.
Increase your fiber intake, and substitute soy protein for animal protein in your diet.

Many studies have suggested that these changes may help prevent gallstones.

Lose weight, if necessary, to lower your gallstone risk. However, avoid crash dieting, which is associated with gallstone formation.
Drink six to eight glasses of water a day to help keep the bile in your gallbladder fluid. Bile helps your body to digest and absorb dietary fat.
Get at least 45 minutes of aerobic exercise (such as brisk walking) at least five times a week. A 1998 study showed that middle-aged men who watched 40 hours of television per week (and presumably got little exercise) had two-and-a-half times the risk of gallstones than those who watched less than six hours a week.
Get 1,000 to 1,500 mg of calcium a day from either food or supplements. A Dutch study found that men who consumed the most calcium over a 25-year period had the lowest incidence of gallstones, and other recent research has suggested that calcium may be protective against gallstones. Our Vitamin Advisor can calculate supplemental calcium needs, if any, based on the calcium intake of your diet.
Take 300 mg of curcumin three times a day; this herbal extract may increase the solubility of your bile. Look for a reputable source, any herbal products should be standardized to insure dosage.
Make sure to get 200 mg of supplemental vitamin C a day. Researchers at the University of California at San Francisco found that women with higher levels of vitamin C in their blood were half as likely to develop gallstones as those with lower levels. Even though no such relationship has been found in men, I recommend this daily dosage to everyone because vitamin C is also an important antioxidant. My daily multivitamin and antioxidant formula will cover your Vitamin C needs as well as provide basic nutrition insurance.

Related Links:


Gallstones: What Are They? How Are They Treated?


Dr. Andrew Weil"

http://www.drweil.co...uestionId=16253