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Liver flushes

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In my mind, it doesnt matter if the flush is performed for the purpose of attempting to deal with acne, gallstones or any other reason....a flush is a flush. Who better to ask than people who have done them?

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I've done three successful flushes so far and haven't used epsom salts; I KNEW that I would puke that stuff up right away, so I did some research and found that others have used magnesium citrate instead--that has worked for me and tastes sooooooo much better going down. Also, on my first flush I literally gagged down the oil and lemon juice (chasing each dose of oil w/lemon juice) and I was sick for two days afterwards. After that, I used Hulda Clark's recipe, mixing the oil and grapefruit juice; it actually tasted pretty good and I didn't even feel any nausea afterwards. One BIG mistake that I did make on my first three flushes that I am now aware of is that I didn't take a mineral supplement to replenish what was lost in the flush. I started getting soooooo tired and picked up viruses constantly; I've started supplementing and I'm feeling much better already.

I'm going to keep on flushin' till they're ALL gone!!


Ebby


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DuMaurier, all those claims DO raise a flag for me.

Im not saying that the claims dont have any basis at all, I was just looking for information on side effects or possible drawbacks.

I apologize for ruffling anyones feathers due to posing my liver flush questions relating to gallbladder in an acne forum.

I figured that if I was going to hunt for somewhat reliable information on flushes, it was best to explore all avenues, not just ask questions of people who are absolute supporters of liver cleansing/flushing.

Anyhow, again I apologize for posing a question in an acne forum, unrelated to acne. That seems to be a forum-faux-pas that I wasnt aware of.

Take care,

Julie

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JulieMarie,

I understand your hesistancy in following through with the flush, because I have been skeptical. However, since I was so desperate with my acne problems; I decided I might try it since their were so many positive testimonies. However, I found from a reliable source that the "liver flush" may not be the best choice. Dr. Andrew Weil gives his opinion, that is backed up by research.

"But there are no natural ways to "remove" gallstones. The olive oil “treatment� you mention does not dissolve or remove them. This folk remedy, known as a "liver flush," requires drinking apple juice, Epsom salts, and a half-cup of olive oil with lemon juice. The day after you manage to down the olive oil, you pass green globs that you may think are dissolved gallstones but are actually the residue of the olive oil you've consumed.

Instead, try these steps to prevent gallstone formation or further attacks:

Reduce your fat intake to 25 percent of your daily calories. Restrict your dietary cholesterol consumption to no more than 300 mg a day.

Limit your intake of sugar, which may promote gallstone formation by affecting lipoprotein metabolism.

Increase your fiber intake, and substitute soy protein for animal protein in your diet.

Many studies have suggested that these changes may help prevent gallstones."

http://www.drweil.com/app/cda/drw_cda.html...uestionId=16253

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Krista: As respected as Dr. Weil IS, he is just wrong on this topic, for many reasons. First and foremost, olive oil doesn't just "harden" or become congealed by sheer force and strength of will. Oil hardens under very strict circumstances. Saponification only happens with the presence of lye. I have already provided links and posts on this. Secondly, there comes a point in time when people stop passing intrahepatic and gallstones. Why would this occur if it is just hardened oil or "soap stones"? Thirdly, some people havn't even used olive oil and have flushed out stones (by consuming large amounts of fat, which causes liver contraction). Some people have removed stones after doing extended fasting (the body tends to store bile during fasting, and once eating resumes, the stones are pushed out of bile ducts.)

And on top of that, I have taken Gold Coin Grass and have passed stones that were completely flattened like a pancake (GCG is known to crush and flatten stones for easy removal out of the bile ducts). How could olive oil achieve such a feat? What...it hardens then flattens itself? You see...this doesn't even make sense.

If you havn't done liverflushes for yourself and seen the benefits that all fine, well, and good, but please don't infer that the rest of us don't know what we are talking about, and that the medical doctors DO. They drop the ball so many times and are full of so much misinformation it's pathetic. Derms still keep people on antibiotics indefinately and think that it does no harm. Doctors also had millions of women on HRT for 20 plus years saying that it cured just about everything under the sun. I wonder how many women got breast cancer due to this kind of tripe being preached to them.

If you want to listen to doctors that is all fine, well, and good, but there are enough people who have had ultrasounds to prove that their stones were removed through liverflushing, and I have spoken to many of them.

http://www.angelhealingcenter.com/GallstonePictures.html

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I'd like to add something to the argument that olive oil created the stones...

I have done around 10-11 flushes. Since #8 the stones have come out progressively darker. They say the darker ones are the older ones. Why would this happen?? The 9th one I had 8 huge brown stones, and this last time I had many large and small black stones. the first several, I only had green with the occational tan. Why would that be? No I didn't take pictures. I have no need to PROVE this to anyone. I am doing this for myself and not anyone else. I have some new pictures of the progression of my skin improvments. I only started the pictures 2 months ago. My acne is gone now. It really stopped coming about 4 or so months ago when I started cleansing my system. So the acne is not there but the obvious red marks from the acne are still there. There has been a very rapid improvment, and I no longer break out but once in a great while.. ie during PMS.

http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/wavycurly2000

My question is WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU CUT OUT AN ORGAN before trying a much milder alternative?? Shouldn't surgery be the very last resort? My thought is that all the organs serve an important purpose, not to mention the trauma to your body from being cut open and carved at? Please go deep inside and ask yourself, "what harm could it do to try"? You have heard from many that it brought about good results.

Also, if my city water was so dangerous to my body, I'd move in a big hurry, but that's just me.

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The "stones" resulting from "liver flushes" are actually hardened faecal matter. Nothing more, nothing less.

Anyone considering "liver flushes" might be interested in some further reading on Hulda Clark: Hulda Clark

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That could only be said, regarding it being bm rather then stones, by someone who hasn't ever flushed. When you see this stuff you will understand that you are incorrect. But since you never will, c'est la vie.

Either way my skin looks great, and I am very happy I found something that works.

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So I guess those 3 white, calicified stones that were almost as hard as rocks were b.m. too....gimmee a break. rolleyes.gif :eek: :smile:

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Denise2,

F.Y.I., I have had acne since I was 12 years old and have not visited a dermatologist. I am in search for something that will heal my body and balance my body systems. I am not trying to discount the "liver flush." I would just be weary of it...since Dr. Weil suggests otherwise.

Currently, I am visiting a chinese medical doctor and hope to visit a homeopathic doctor, if the oriental medicine doesn't work.

Also, I would like to add that Dr. Weil, M.D.'s opinion is extremely respected, because he is a graduate of Harvard Medical School, is a Clinical Professor of Medicine at the University of Arizona and the director of the program of Integrative Medicine at that institution. He is also the founder of the Foundation for Integrative Medicine in Tucson, Arizona and author of eight books...

"Is There a Natural Way to Get Rid of Gallstones?

I read about a natural remedy for dissolving gallstones that involves drinking olive oil and lemon juice. What is your opinion of this approach? Are there any other natural means of removing gallstones?

-- Len

Today's Answer

(Published 11/29/2001)

Most gallstones are composed of cholesterol and can cause intense pain if they get stuck while trying to pass from the gallbladder, where they form, into the bile duct, where they pass to your small intestine. Gallstone symptoms include nausea and vomiting as well as pain, often spreading from the upper right abdomen to the back.

Most people with gallstones  about 60 percent  never develop symptoms and may never know they have them since the larger stones actually stay put in the gallbladder. Individuals at greatest risk of developing gallstones include women, particularly those who are middle-aged and overweight; diabetics; those whose mothers had gallstones; pregnant women or those taking birth control pills; those with high triglyceride levels; anyone who has lost a lot of weight quickly; and Native Americans (especially Pima Indians) and those of Scandinavian background.

If you have had intense and frequent gallbladder attacks, you may need surgery to remove your gallbladder. However, you may be able to avoid surgery by adopting the lifestyle and dietary measures I recommend below, which help to prevent gallstone formation as well as recurrent attacks.

But there are no natural ways to "remove" gallstones. The olive oil “treatment� you mention does not dissolve or remove them. This folk remedy, known as a "liver flush," requires drinking apple juice, Epsom salts, and a half-cup of olive oil with lemon juice. The day after you manage to down the olive oil, you pass green globs that you may think are dissolved gallstones but are actually the residue of the olive oil you've consumed.

Instead, try these steps to prevent gallstone formation or further attacks:

Reduce your fat intake to 25 percent of your daily calories. Restrict your dietary cholesterol consumption to no more than 300 mg a day.

Limit your intake of sugar, which may promote gallstone formation by affecting lipoprotein metabolism.

Increase your fiber intake, and substitute soy protein for animal protein in your diet.

Many studies have suggested that these changes may help prevent gallstones.

Lose weight, if necessary, to lower your gallstone risk. However, avoid crash dieting, which is associated with gallstone formation.

Drink six to eight glasses of water a day to help keep the bile in your gallbladder fluid. Bile helps your body to digest and absorb dietary fat.

Get at least 45 minutes of aerobic exercise (such as brisk walking) at least five times a week. A 1998 study showed that middle-aged men who watched 40 hours of television per week (and presumably got little exercise) had two-and-a-half times the risk of gallstones than those who watched less than six hours a week.

Get 1,000 to 1,500 mg of calcium a day from either food or supplements. A Dutch study found that men who consumed the most calcium over a 25-year period had the lowest incidence of gallstones, and other recent research has suggested that calcium may be protective against gallstones. Our Vitamin Advisor can calculate supplemental calcium needs, if any, based on the calcium intake of your diet.

Take 300 mg of curcumin three times a day; this herbal extract may increase the solubility of your bile. Look for a reputable source, any herbal products should be standardized to insure dosage.

Make sure to get 200 mg of supplemental vitamin C a day. Researchers at the University of California at San Francisco found that women with higher levels of vitamin C in their blood were half as likely to develop gallstones as those with lower levels. Even though no such relationship has been found in men, I recommend this daily dosage to everyone because vitamin C is also an important antioxidant. My daily multivitamin and antioxidant formula will cover your Vitamin C needs as well as provide basic nutrition insurance.

Related Links:

Gallstones: What Are They? How Are They Treated?

Dr. Andrew Weil"

http://www.drweil.com/app/cda/drw_cda.html...uestionId=16253

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I was a skeptic just like the rest of you about liver flushing. I put my doubts aside though and yesterday i did my first liver flush. All i can say is wow. You really have to see the stones for yourself to believe that liver flushing isnt just some scam. Im going to continue liver flushing now until i get no stones or very few stones out.

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3. The oil and juice cannot turn into stones, the body cannot do that, not even a laboratory. Analysis of the stones shows that they consist of 90 percent cholesterol crystals. The cholesterol in olive is minimal and not sufficient to form any clumpts. Besides it is soluble cholesterol that is unable to coagulate. The reason why the the liver can easily accomodate 4000-5000 stones becauuse of the huge biliary network. Instead of having bile occupying the space, bile stones begin to occupy that space. Of course, the bile ducts dilate because the stones are relatively large in comparison with the normal diametre of a smaller bile duct. This causes the typical enlargement of the liver among people with chronic health problems. In fact most people, even children, in the industrialised world have enlarged livers (which is now considered normal). If a person has 20,000 stones, he actually has a fatty, enlarged liver, completely white on the ultrasound picture.

Also, when the liver and gallbladder are cleared of all stones, no more stones are released. If stones were formed from olive oil, this would continue to be the case even after the liver is clean. But this isn't so. After my 12th cleanse I had no more stones. When I did a 13th cleanse 4 years later, I still had no stones, not suprising given my diet and lifestyle. And I had released over 3,500. All stones were packed with bacteria that produced a horrendous smell. Olive oil is bacteria-static and therefore does not support living bacteria. Bacteria only go where there is decaying organic matter. Anyone who says that olive oil turns into stones has no knowlege of basic biochemistry and digestive functions.

Written by Andreas Moritz

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Krista: Dr. Weil's opinion doesn't mean squat to me. No disrespect intended. Most medical and other doctors don't even understand what liverflushing is or how it is accomplished because it's not something they have been taught.

Sorry, but dermatologists and estheticians couldn't EVER clear or control my acne, but cleansing my bowel and flushing my liver DID.

Again; no one, YOURSELF INCLUDED can explain how on earth olive oil turns into "stones" without the presence of lye (the only agent that hardens oil under extreme conditions and temperatures.)

Sorry, but your posts don't mean squat. I posted an actual lab report CONFIRMING the presence of calcified stones. Please.....don't continue this game unless you can explain how oil turns into stones.

Again....I don't put my trust and faith in doctors as they didn't do anything but severely damage my health by keeping me on antibiotics for many years in a PATHETIC, PITIFUL attempt to control my acne; I became very sick with liver toxicity and candida overgrowth. These same dermatologists still keep people on antibiotics TO THIS FREAKIN' DAY and swear it helps control acne; meanwhile, people are suffering because of a lack of knowledge these so-called "skin experts" possess. I have an internet friend who has been on Accutane TWICE, and he is breaking out again. So with all his liver tests, HORRIFIC side effects, years on antibiotics, etc....he isn't clear. Sorry, but these derms are only doing what they have been taught, and it doesn't work for everybody, OBVIOUSLY. And, like everyone else says, what harm can it do? I have passed tan, light green, dark green, and white stones. Some have been totally flattened or crushed (deflated looking) by taking Gold Coin Grass.....how come you didn't explain that. You see Krista......you keep cutting and pasting Dr. Weil's opinions, but seem to not be able to explain or answer the questions I posted, as if people have forgotten that I asked them. You see Krista, once I did my own research, I found that everything made sense. Julia Chang at www.sensiblehealth.com is a bio-chemist and one of the smartest people I've ever spoken with. I would put her up against Dr. Weil or any other doctor any day of the week. Her website is articulate and explains a lot of the issues pertaining to liver function anyway. Thanks, but I'll take HER advice.

Sorry, but the opinion of dermatologists and doctors doesn't impress me, therefore, your cut and paste jobs don't, either. I was already aware of Dr. Weil's opinion on this issue anyway.

Unless and until people begin to do their own research and ask/answer the TOUGH questions, they will continue to listen to fallible men who don't have a clue that the liver and bowel and are the key to skin health. This is the biggest DUH in the world. Until people begin to take charge of their own health and stop their unnecessary doctor worship, they will continue to suffer and be in pain. Doctors are great for trauma care, but fall way short of treating chronic conditions.

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Wow, now thats the stuff I was looking for. biggrin.gif

Krista, thankyou for the link you provided, re: Dr Weir.

Ok, so after the reading a researching that Ive done, it seems that the complication I should worry about most is a stone becoming stuck in a duct.

So, my next logical question was "How often does this happen, and what are the repercussions of this".

So, I called my doc.

Now, part of the problem is there are NO studies or data on how often stones become lodged due to liver flushing. Stones become stuck all the time, but the question remains, did they move and become lodged due to the flush....or would they have moved and lodged anyhow. Many people have suffered from the agony of a stuck stone (and there are many health repercussions of this, some of them are life threatenintg) that have never even heard of a liver flush....let alone attempted to do one. And there are people who have presented at the ER with a stuck stone that have performed flushes.

So, my doc says, the possibility exsists of ending up with complications due to a stuck stone wether I liver flush or not. It can happen either way. However, could I be taking an extra risk by doing the flush? He simply didnt know....and he said it would be extremely difficult to find reliable scientific data to support or disprove either claim, because very little info exsists when it comes to homeopathic remedies or cures. They have not been put through standard trials or studies like medications or other treatments have, nor do they have a "watchdog" (so to speak) like the FDA. As an example he asked me to look into how long St Johns Wort has been used,(many, many years) and the many things it has been used for. And then, look into how long it has been studied and put through double-blind trials.(not nearly as many years as its been used) It was only after the trials occured that the information on side-effects and incidence of occurance, became available to the general public.

I feel pretty trusting in my doctor, because he can and does support alternative medical choices if they have data to back them up that they are safe. When I told him during my pregnancy that I was going to get a midwife and have a home birth, he was 100% supportive, where many doctors are not. He actually provided me with information and stats showing that during an uncomplicated pregnancy, home birth is likely the safer alternative. So, I know he doesnt completely rule out health choices just because they are not the norm, or they are considered holistic, homeopathic, or even wives tales.

It was his opinion, and he stressed it was only his....that it is impossible to make an informed decision based on the information I have available to me.

LOL...So Im back to square one with trying to decide wether to take the risk or not.

:blink:

He did provide me with all the information I need in how to tell if I have a stuck stone, and at this point, Im thinking I may try the flush. If nothing terribly uncomfortable happens, I would probably go forward and try it again with the understanding that one flush is not going to cure all evils.

I dunno.... :think:

Back to my quest.

Thanks to most of you for some very thought provoking information. I truly appreciate it.

Julie

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The risk of going under the knife and the trauma of surgery should be your biggest consern. Out of all the stories you have read about flushing, how many resulted in anything dangerous or negative?? For God's sake if you go straight to the knife without trying to flush first, you are foolish in my opinion.

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Amoira;

The risk of surgery is something that I take very seriously, hence my reason for looking for possible alternatives. Im not scared of surgery itself....Ive had a few, and I based my decision on a quality of life issue.

As an example I can offer this:

4 years ago I had a partial hysterectomy, at the age of 30. It took me many years to finally take this last resort step, and I had tried everything under the sun....but it still boiled down to a quality of life issue for me. I had tried different medical approaches including medication, diet and lifestyle changes, and I enlisted the help of the midwife I had used for my pregnancy and birth who credits herself very pro-womens health and anti-medical establishment. I worked with her for almost 2 years but still suffered from uncontrollable bleeding.

I tried a milder surgical intervention that they dubbed balloon therapy....still didnt work.

I finally submitted to the hysterectomy,(uterus only) and was oh so glad that I did. The only side effect....I cant have any more kids. LOL...didnt bother me, hubby and I already have 4 and I certainly wasnt itching to have any more. tongue.gif My quality of life improved tenfold.

Ive just come to a basic understanding that sometimes alternatives work for some people, and sometimes they dont. Sometimes surgery offers the best possible outcome, but I do have the understanding that it is not without possible risk.

I tend to discredit or steer away from anyone who offers information that either surgery or alternatives can offer me a guaranteed fix.

My biggest understanding is that there are no guarantees of any kind.

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Thanks Catwoman, Ive bookmarked it and will read it.

Ive also done so much reading at curezone that my eyes are getting tired. tongue.gif

Im finding that theres lots of information available, its just a matter of weeding through it all.

Julie

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