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Why masturbation MIGHT cause some acne!

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#41 jc

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Posted 03 June 2004 - 05:55 PM

I'll give it a try then... user posted image
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#42 Locnar

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 09:39 AM

QUOTE(dudeman @ Jun 3 2004, 01:46 PM)
QUOTE(Locnar @ Jun 3 2004, 01:33 PM)
QUOTE(dudeman @ Jun 3 2004, 11:12 AM)

Anyway, I meant that generations of poor eating and the breakdown of genes have caused the genetic acne phenomenon, not the disease you have. I haven't yet studied endometreosis enough to make any statements about it in particular.

Let's try this again. Do you have ANY credible evidence, training, or qualifications to lend any validity to the wild claims you make? Any at all? These are extreme claims. Extreme claims require a lot of evidence to back them up.

For one, I suspect you are just talking a bunch of theories with no credible evidence.

They aren't very extreme claims if you actually think about it. I'm a naturopathic medicine student who studies Western medicine as well. I'm currently a student and as such have no "qualifications", and no one is forcing you to believe what I'm saying. My knowledge at this time is based on my studies, first hand experience, and experience with other people. I'm certainly not going to lose sleep over it. I'm very busy during the day and I can only spend a few minutes here at a time.

If people actually got past their being offended and understood what I'm saying, they'd see that it's true. Genes have been deteriorating over the last few generations, and many MD's acknowledge that as well. Our bodies did not evolve to eat the junk that most people eat on a regular basis, and the genetic de-evolution of sorts has been causing the more-or-less modern phenomenon of genetic (and otherwise) obesity, acne and skin problems, liver toxicity and it's effects (including "depression"), and a myriad other ailments.

As for my comment about diseases, if you cared to look you'd see that I corrected myself by saying "most diseases", which is what I originally intended. We live in a universe based on "cause and affect" scientific principles, and as such, everything is caused by something. Be offended, be very offended.

Ok so we've established that you have no qualifications. Good.

Next, it's not up to the reader to find evidence for your assertions. It's up to you. If you aren't willing to back them up, then don't bring them up.

For the sake of argument, let's say that "Dr. Price" is correct. He's found that aboriginal diet cures acne. Then it should be TRIVIAL to set up a controlled study to prove it. If he proved it, he would blown an area of medical knowledge wide open. So has he (or she) done this? If not, why not?

As for your "most diseases" comment. I'd say it's probably still wrong. I'd guess that genetics are a bigger factor. I don't really have any information, but since you don't need to supply any, then I guess I don't either. There. I've refuted your argument with the same qualifications and evidence that you presented for it. That is, none.


Lastly, yes I'm offended. In fact I'm pissed off. :angry: I'm offended at unfounded information being spread. I'm offended at being told acne is my fault. I'm offended at people like you who post here like high and mighty know it alls, and then when pressed, don't feel the need to back up anything they say. You feel free to make extreme claims and then provide nothing to back it up. Damn right I'm offended.

I can safely dismiss you as another paper thin blowhard.
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#43 Badass912

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 09:51 AM

ooh a qoute inside of a quote inside of a quote!

#44 Locnar

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 11:38 AM

I'm quotalicious. Quotific. Mega-quotable. Quotaramadingdong. :blink: lol.gif biggrin.gif
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#45 dudeman

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 01:30 PM

QUOTE(Locnar @ Jun 4 2004, 09:26 AM)
QUOTE(dudeman @ Jun 3 2004, 01:46 PM)
QUOTE(Locnar @ Jun 3 2004, 01:33 PM)
QUOTE(dudeman @ Jun 3 2004, 11:12 AM)

Anyway, I meant that generations of poor eating and the breakdown of genes have caused the genetic acne phenomenon, not the disease you have. I haven't yet studied endometreosis enough to make any statements about it in particular.

Let's try this again. Do you have ANY credible evidence, training, or qualifications to lend any validity to the wild claims you make? Any at all? These are extreme claims. Extreme claims require a lot of evidence to back them up.

For one, I suspect you are just talking a bunch of theories with no credible evidence.

They aren't very extreme claims if you actually think about it. I'm a naturopathic medicine student who studies Western medicine as well. I'm currently a student and as such have no "qualifications", and no one is forcing you to believe what I'm saying. My knowledge at this time is based on my studies, first hand experience, and experience with other people. I'm certainly not going to lose sleep over it. I'm very busy during the day and I can only spend a few minutes here at a time.

If people actually got past their being offended and understood what I'm saying, they'd see that it's true. Genes have been deteriorating over the last few generations, and many MD's acknowledge that as well. Our bodies did not evolve to eat the junk that most people eat on a regular basis, and the genetic de-evolution of sorts has been causing the more-or-less modern phenomenon of genetic (and otherwise) obesity, acne and skin problems, liver toxicity and it's effects (including "depression"), and a myriad other ailments.

As for my comment about diseases, if you cared to look you'd see that I corrected myself by saying "most diseases", which is what I originally intended. We live in a universe based on "cause and affect" scientific principles, and as such, everything is caused by something. Be offended, be very offended.

Ok so we've established that you have no qualifications. Good.

Next, it's not up to the reader to find evidence for your assertions. It's up to you. If you aren't willing to back them up, then don't bring them up.

For the sake of argument, let's say that "Dr. Price" is correct. He's found that aboriginal diet cures acne. Then it should be TRIVIAL to set up a controlled study to prove it. If he proved it, he would blown an area of medical knowledge wide open. So has he (or she) done this? If not, why not?

As for your "most diseases" comment. I'd say it's probably still wrong. I'd guess that genetics are a bigger factor. I don't really have any information, but since you don't need to supply any, then I guess I don't either. There. I've refuted your argument with the same qualifications and evidence that you presented for it. That is, none.


Lastly, yes I'm offended. In fact I'm pissed off. :angry: I'm offended at unfounded information being spread. I'm offended at being told acne is my fault. I'm offended at people like you who post here like high and mighty know it alls, and then when pressed, don't feel the need to back up anything they say. You feel free to make extreme claims and then provide nothing to back it up. Damn right I'm offended.

I can safely dismiss you as another paper thin blowhard.

I never said I had medical qualifications, so "establishing" that I have none is of little consequence. I'm a medical and health student, what can I say?

I think it should come naturally to anyone of reasonable intelligence that whatever I say is based on my experiences and studies alone, and shouldn't be taken as gospel until they try it themselves.

The fact of the matter is, this forum is about independant research on acne, because the medical community has been largely despondant about finding the real causes to this terrible problem. People come here to try to find answers, and people share their experiences. By that token, I have every right to say what I say because it's been true for me and thousands of others, and you have every right to not believe me. Who's forcing you?

In essence, what I'm saying are things that I have proven true for myself through research, study, and "field testing". Being a student I have no way of formally conducting a study yet.


All that said, I have yet to see you offer much in the way of data or personal experience to people on this forum in a helpful way. You just sound like a grouchy, over-sensitive guy in almost all your posts. I spend most of my time here trying to help others, since my acne is finally, after many years, going away, ONLY after I made the lifestyle changes I describe in my posts. I can finally look in the mirror and not be horribly disgusted. To me, that means everything.


As for your remarks on my disease comments, yes, of course genetics play a role; they can create the predisposition to the disease, but rarely are they the actual cause that triggers the disease post-birth. Smoking? Working in a mine? Higher risk of causing lung cancer. Eating lots of fatty foods? Higher risk of heart disease, etc. Everything has a cause, however minute it may be.
'Till you clear the inside you ain't gonna clear the outside.

#46 Locnar

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 02:05 PM

I'm still waiting for your "Dr. Price" revelation. Sounds like he should have been able to make the diet/acne connection without a shadow of a doubt. Or have you dropped that argument because you have to actually supply some evidence?


The medical community has not been despondant. That's your value judgement that is entirely wrong and without any basis in fact.

Yep, I'm grouchy. Yep, I'm sensitive. I do help people. I just don't make up stuff and pass it off as fact. I help people by exposing all the BS that people like you try to pass off as fact.
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#47 dudeman

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 04:10 PM

QUOTE(Locnar @ Jun 4 2004, 01:52 PM)
I'm still waiting for your "Dr. Price" revelation. Sounds like he should have been able to make the diet/acne connection without a shadow of a doubt. Or have you dropped that argument because you have to actually supply some evidence?


The medical community has not been despondant. That's your value judgement that is entirely wrong and without any basis in fact. 

Yep, I'm grouchy. Yep, I'm sensitive. I do help people. I just don't make up stuff and pass it off as fact. I help people by exposing all the BS that people like you try to pass off as fact.

I can tell that you're so hostile that you can't properly read posts that inflame you, since you seem to have missed so many things that I've said in my posts, especially my last one. That's ok.

Unfortunately, you're supposed "exposing" of our so-called "BS" has no basis, as you can't seem to provide any significant source that denies our findings. I find it almost crazy that you'd go out of your way so often to deny something that you have no clue about in the first place. Since I'm a student of health and medicine and you're apparently not, I am more informed, more well read, and have more reasons for saying the things that I do than you do. That's the simple fact.


As for the Dr., it slipped my mind. I can probably find you a link soon. Unfortunately, finding things for grouchy, rude dweebs on message boards isn't high on my priority list.
'Till you clear the inside you ain't gonna clear the outside.

#48 Parker

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Posted 04 June 2004 - 11:30 PM

LOL These masturbation/Acne things always come up every month and there is always some new theory to link it all together. It cracks me up.

Just a couple of points

1. Acne is due to bacteria. How does masturbation/sex affect bacteria?
2. Girls. How often do you masturbate?. Why do girls also get acne and almost always either never masturbate or do not do it that often and in any case does there orgasim fluid (sorry I dont know the technical term) have zinc in it to.

I got these next points from a site from "English for purity":


Warning signs that your child is Masturbating!

1. Does your teenager have acne? Masturbation often leads to excessive hormone production, which is the cause of acne. Very few teenagers who don't Masturbate have acne.
2. Is your teenager depressed? If a teenager acts sullen, withdrawn or unhappy the most likely cause is Chronic Masturbation.
3. Does your child lock his or her bedroom door? It is not healthy for a teen to want privacy. Chances are he or she is in there Masturbating!
4. Does your child listen to "Rock And Roll" music? If a teenager has rebelled against God far enough to listen to the Devil's music, then he or she has almost certainly rebelled enough to try Masturbation.
5. Are there semen stains on your son's bed sheets or underwear? There's only one way they could have gotten there!
6. Does your teenager have Liberal political opinions? The weakness of mind brought on by Self-Abuse often leads to left-wing sympathies.
7. Does your child wear fashionable clothing or hairstyles? If your child can't resist the peer pressure to look a certain way, he or she probably can't resist the peer pressure to Masturbate, either.
8. Does your child deny Masturbating? Very few teenagers will openly admit to Masturbating!
9. Have you caught your child Masturbating? If you walk into your son's bedroom without knocking and he's in there with his pants down holding his erect penis, he's probably Masturbating.

Preventing and Treating Teen Masturbation

If your child Masturbates, there are steps you can take to stop the problem. If your child doesn't Masturbate, there are things you can do to prevent it.
1. Remove your child's bedroom door. Privacy is one of the leading causes of Masturbation.
2. Monitor your family's use of the restroom. Not only will this prevent Masturbation, it will prepare your teens for today's workplace, where corporations are stepping up their surveillance of employees' bathroom usage.
3. Kill your television. There is absolutely nothing of value on television. Everyone should be reading their Bibles or working, not watching filth like Baywatch or Star Trek.
4. Control your child's reading material. Screen everything your child brings into the house. Do not allow anything even remotely stimulating. Get up early in the morning and go through the newspaper cutting out all of the pictures in the Underwear ads. Burn them before your teenager wakes up.
5. Use corporal punishment. Spare the rod and spoil the child! Although outlawed by Socialists in many places, a good, sound thrashing has always been the best cure for the unruly child.
6. Put boxing gloves on your children's hands at bedtime. Boxing gloves are pretty hard to take off without someone's help. If you do this you can sleep soundly, knowing that your children aren't touching themselves in an impure way.
7. Understand your child's language. There are dozens of slang terms for Masturbation in use by today's teenagers. You should be familiar with them. Click here for a list. There are many other lists available on the Web. Don't use these slang terms around your children! If you must refer to Masturbation, use the term "Self-Abuse."
Accutane 40MG FOR 7 MONTHS has cleared my skin when nothing else did.

THANKYOU ROCHE and DAN

#49 Locnar

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Posted 05 June 2004 - 02:53 PM

QUOTE(dudeman @ Jun 4 2004, 02:57 PM)
QUOTE(Locnar @ Jun 4 2004, 01:52 PM)
I'm still waiting for your "Dr. Price" revelation. Sounds like he should have been able to make the diet/acne connection without a shadow of a doubt. Or have you dropped that argument because you have to actually supply some evidence?


The medical community has not been despondant. That's your value judgement that is entirely wrong and without any basis in fact. 

Yep, I'm grouchy. Yep, I'm sensitive. I do help people. I just don't make up stuff and pass it off as fact. I help people by exposing all the BS that people like you try to pass off as fact.

I can tell that you're so hostile that you can't properly read posts that inflame you, since you seem to have missed so many things that I've said in my posts, especially my last one. That's ok.

Unfortunately, you're supposed "exposing" of our so-called "BS" has no basis, as you can't seem to provide any significant source that denies our findings. I find it almost crazy that you'd go out of your way so often to deny something that you have no clue about in the first place. Since I'm a student of health and medicine and you're apparently not, I am more informed, more well read, and have more reasons for saying the things that I do than you do. That's the simple fact.


As for the Dr., it slipped my mind. I can probably find you a link soon. Unfortunately, finding things for grouchy, rude dweebs on message boards isn't high on my priority list.

I didn't miss anything. Don't confuse lack of agreement for lack of understanding.

The "dweeb" comment really hurt. Really. rolleyes.gif

The only source I would need to refute this thread would be, let's see, just about EVERY dermotologist practicing in the United States today. Is that a good enough reference for you?
Locnar

Reviled but not restrained.

#50 dudeman

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Posted 05 June 2004 - 04:14 PM

QUOTE(Locnar @ Jun 5 2004, 02:40 PM)
QUOTE(dudeman @ Jun 4 2004, 02:57 PM)
QUOTE(Locnar @ Jun 4 2004, 01:52 PM)
I'm still waiting for your "Dr. Price" revelation. Sounds like he should have been able to make the diet/acne connection without a shadow of a doubt. Or have you dropped that argument because you have to actually supply some evidence?


The medical community has not been despondant. That's your value judgement that is entirely wrong and without any basis in fact. 

Yep, I'm grouchy. Yep, I'm sensitive. I do help people. I just don't make up stuff and pass it off as fact. I help people by exposing all the BS that people like you try to pass off as fact.

I can tell that you're so hostile that you can't properly read posts that inflame you, since you seem to have missed so many things that I've said in my posts, especially my last one. That's ok.

Unfortunately, you're supposed "exposing" of our so-called "BS" has no basis, as you can't seem to provide any significant source that denies our findings. I find it almost crazy that you'd go out of your way so often to deny something that you have no clue about in the first place. Since I'm a student of health and medicine and you're apparently not, I am more informed, more well read, and have more reasons for saying the things that I do than you do. That's the simple fact.


As for the Dr., it slipped my mind. I can probably find you a link soon. Unfortunately, finding things for grouchy, rude dweebs on message boards isn't high on my priority list.

I didn't miss anything. Don't confuse lack of agreement for lack of understanding.

The "dweeb" comment really hurt. Really. rolleyes.gif

The only source I would need to refute this thread would be, let's see, just about EVERY dermotologist practicing in the United States today. Is that a good enough reference for you?

The "dweeb" comment wasn't meant to hurt you. It was meant to maybe make you think twice about coming off so hostile, but if it doesn't, it's no skin off my nose.

I stopped believing everything traditional Dermatologists said after they damaged my skin (and several other people's) and failed to help clear my acne in the slightest, infact making it worse. I went on antibiotics, oral and topical, retin-A's, and suchforth, for most of my teen years and they only ever made it worse. They also said diet doesn't cause acne, which is clearly BS, since it's what ended up making me clear. Sucks to be them, as they're not getting my business anymore.

The dermatologists I went to were all stuck up dweebs, anyway. I kept telling them that I think my diet might be causing it, and they refuted it every time, so I kept on eating what I was (which was pretty healthy, just not ideal). Bad deal, when I think of all the wasted years of depression I could have avoided by not listening to their ignorance.

When I get my degree I hope to put those fools to shame.
'Till you clear the inside you ain't gonna clear the outside.

#51 Locnar

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Posted 07 June 2004 - 12:43 PM

I'm still back to extreme claims require extreme evidence. If your going to discount the whole of mainstream derms, then, in my opinion, you better have really good evidence to back it up.

You think your smarter, and know more than the entire medical community. That is a quite egotistical stance. If your going to stick your neck out that far, don't be surprised if you are called on it. You can't just discount a whole history of medical knowledge because your are a student who's read and studied a lot. It's foolish.

I consider you to be overconfident at best, and dangerous at worst. If you are going to try to lead people away from proven medical treatments, you could at least have the decency to provide a single SHRED of evidence.

Instead, you whine, piffle, moan and call names when someone has the audacity to ask for some proof when you crap all over all the dermotologist who are practicing. Did you think that you could fly directly in the face of current knowledge and NOONE would challenge you? Stop complaining about my "rude" attitude and try to understand what you are asking me to swallow.

I'm rude to you because that's all the respect you deserve.
Locnar

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#52 Monkeypie

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Posted 07 June 2004 - 12:51 PM

I've had very bad luck with doctors. Dudeman, I hope you get your degree and help people.
Illusion is the first of all pleasures.
-Oscar Wilde

#53 dudeman

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Posted 07 June 2004 - 01:26 PM

QUOTE(Locnar @ Jun 7 2004, 12:30 PM)
I'm still back to extreme claims require extreme evidence. If your going to discount the whole of mainstream derms, then, in my opinion, you better have really good evidence to back it up. 

You think your smarter, and know more than the entire medical community. That is a quite egotistical stance. If your going to stick your neck out that far, don't be surprised if you are called on it. You can't just discount a whole history of medical knowledge because your are a student who's read and studied a lot. It's foolish. 

I consider you to be overconfident at best, and dangerous at worst. If you are going to try to lead people away from proven medical treatments, you could at least have the decency to provide a single SHRED of evidence. 

Instead, you whine, piffle, moan and call names when someone has the audacity to ask for some proof when you crap all over all the dermotologist who are practicing. Did you think that you could fly directly in the face of current knowledge and NOONE would challenge you?  Stop complaining about my "rude" attitude and try to understand what you are asking me to swallow. 

I'm rude to you because that's all the respect you deserve.

I've said over and over again that I'm not asking you to swallow anything at all. Frankly, this is becoming amusing, since you seen to be continually ignoring things that I say. I've said at least twice that I fully support your right to not believe me. Your rebuttals are inconsequential to me, since I have my own experience (and you have your's).

I never said I was smarter than doctors, only that I have experienced things greatly to the contrary of their research. Doctors only made my acne worse, and that's a fact.

Are many people's acne problems helped by them? Absolutely. But mine and many other people's were not, and now we're trying to find alternate solutions so we don't have to waste more years with these silly spots on our face. NOTHING doctors gave me helped me, so where do I turn? Alternative therapies. And because I did, I'm clearing up. That's the bottom line.

The fact that you claim it's "all the respect I deserve" is ridiculous, at best. And to say I'm whining is laughable. You have no idea who I am. At least, I'm studying medicine to help people and try to put things right where there have been wrongs. I've yet to see you claim to be doing so.

You are in no way obligated to believe anything I say whatsoever, and I am in no way obligated to care about your opinions of my experience whatsoever.

Have a nice day. smile.gif
'Till you clear the inside you ain't gonna clear the outside.

#54 Locnar

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Posted 07 June 2004 - 01:48 PM

QUOTE(dudeman @ Jun 1 2004, 10:39 AM)

It is our fault, but we're not aware of it. There are things people ingest and do that cause acne, therefore making it our fault, harsh term though it may be.

It's not like we said "Ah hah, I'll do this so I get acne". But it doesn't diminish the fact that it IS due to our habits, whatever the triggers may be.

The simple fact of the matter is that if everyone had clean livers and other organs, ate healthfully, and exercised, THEY WOULDN'T HAVE ACNE. Aboriginal tribes, on their traditional diets, almost NEVER got acne. That cannot be ignored.

Yes, acne is a disease, but there are many diseases that are brought on by one's habits, knowingly or not.

Your not asking me to swallow anything? Hmm. This post seems to me to indicate that you have an opinion about the cause of acne. It sure seems like you are making claims to me. So what gives, you were making claims but don't expect anyone to believe them?

The problem here is, you have NOTHING to back up these claims. Now you are trying to weasle out because someone has called you on it. You throw up smoke screens about my rudeness.

Let's make it simple:

1. In the above post, you make some extreme claims about the cause of acne. You basically go against current medical knowledge.

2. You repeatedly refuse to provide any evidence for your claims.

These are the facts and anything else you post is just smoke and mirrors intended to confuse this issue. It's not difficult. Make extreme claims:provide evidence.
Is that so hard?

If you don't want to provide evidence, than we can just conclude that you have non foundation for your claims. That's all I wanted to establish in the first place.
Locnar

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#55 Monkeypie

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Posted 07 June 2004 - 04:34 PM

Locnar, you really do sound hostile. Relax, please.
Illusion is the first of all pleasures.
-Oscar Wilde

#56 dudeman

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Posted 07 June 2004 - 08:06 PM

QUOTE(Locnar @ Jun 7 2004, 01:35 PM)
QUOTE(dudeman @ Jun 1 2004, 10:39 AM)

It is our fault, but we're not aware of it. There are things people ingest and do that cause acne, therefore making it our fault, harsh term though it may be.

It's not like we said "Ah hah, I'll do this so I get acne". But it doesn't diminish the fact that it IS due to our habits, whatever the triggers may be.

The simple fact of the matter is that if everyone had clean livers and other organs, ate healthfully, and exercised, THEY WOULDN'T HAVE ACNE. Aboriginal tribes, on their traditional diets, almost NEVER got acne. That cannot be ignored.

Yes, acne is a disease, but there are many diseases that are brought on by one's habits, knowingly or not.

Your not asking me to swallow anything? Hmm. This post seems to me to indicate that you have an opinion about the cause of acne. It sure seems like you are making claims to me. So what gives, you were making claims but don't expect anyone to believe them?

The problem here is, you have NOTHING to back up these claims. Now you are trying to weasle out because someone has called you on it. You throw up smoke screens about my rudeness.

Let's make it simple:

1. In the above post, you make some extreme claims about the cause of acne. You basically go against current medical knowledge.

2. You repeatedly refuse to provide any evidence for your claims.

These are the facts and anything else you post is just smoke and mirrors intended to confuse this issue. It's not difficult. Make extreme claims:provide evidence.
Is that so hard?

If you don't want to provide evidence, than we can just conclude that you have non foundation for your claims. That's all I wanted to establish in the first place.

You overestimate me - "smoke and mirrors"? "Confuse the issue"? Oh please. You seem a tad paranoid.

What I'm saying has worked for me and many other people. That's all the proof I need, even though it's been substantiated by many degree holding naturopaths that I've worked with and by a medical doctor as well.

No, you don't need to swallow any of it, silly. This is very new age, un-traditional material, I don't expect every single person to believe me until they try it for themselves. That would be stupid. If you want to try out the methods I'm talking about, go ahead, if not, that's fine too. If you read anything I said about dermatologists in my last post, then you'd understand where I'm coming from, but apparently you didn't.

Night night. smile.gif
'Till you clear the inside you ain't gonna clear the outside.

#57 nate_king1

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Posted 07 June 2004 - 08:49 PM

OMFG you might be on to something. I started to get bad acne the first time I wacked off, I cannot be sure but this might be true. So I will have to stop with it, All together sad.gif

#58 Locnar

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Posted 08 June 2004 - 10:41 AM

QUOTE(Monkeypie @ Jun 7 2004, 03:21 PM)
Locnar, you really do sound hostile.  Relax, please.

About this issue I'm totally hostile. I've said that multiple times in my posts.
Locnar

Reviled but not restrained.

#59 Locnar

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Posted 08 June 2004 - 10:46 AM

Dudeman: I UNDERSTAND where you are coming from, I just think you are TOTALLY WRONG. Don't confuse disagreement for misunderstanding.

You did just what "alternative" people do when asked to produce evidence. You've whined, stalled, attacked the inquisitor, name-called, everything except produce any damn evidence. Now you will use your pithy goodbyes and run away with your tail between your legs.

There is no evidence to back up what you say. That's at least, is obvious.
Locnar

Reviled but not restrained.

#60 dudeman

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Posted 08 June 2004 - 01:11 PM

QUOTE(Locnar @ Jun 8 2004, 10:33 AM)
Dudeman: I UNDERSTAND where you are coming from, I just think you are TOTALLY WRONG. Don't confuse disagreement for misunderstanding. 

You did just what "alternative" people do when asked to produce evidence. You've whined, stalled, attacked the inquisitor, name-called, everything except produce any damn evidence. Now you will use your pithy goodbyes and run away with your tail between your legs. 
 
There is no evidence to back up what you say. That's at least, is obvious.

I'm not running away here mate, I'm still here. But frankly, I don't see the point in continuing this with someone who has already acknowledged that we don't agree. I'm glad we have that settled. I've said all that needs to be said, and you seem to finally understand some of what I'm saying.

Anyway, if you want to try out the methods I've been describing, go right ahead, I hope your acne clears up like mine is.
'Till you clear the inside you ain't gonna clear the outside.