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Man in the Mirror: Pre and Post Subcision Photos

subcision tca

Best Answer alex13, 07 June 2013 - 06:09 PM

Hey guys, I have had a pretty nasty acne since age 14 (the worst - cystic acne) and now it seems I managed to reduce it to one or two pimples (no milk, no cow products, no sugar or spicy foods) :(. I am 22 now I got a few nasty scars and dont know how to get rid of them. I didn`t read all your thread but I want some expert advice from you !

 

In my country - romania - we don`t have lots of options for acne scar treatments and the one that are available are very expensive, but I want to try one of these :

 

1. Microdermabrasion with cristals

2. Microdermabrasion with diamonds

 

They say it would help a lot, the one with diamonds seems to be better. What do you guys think ? should I give money for something like that ? and also, is there any cream that I should search for ? or maybe some natural stuff that I can eat ? however the scars are pretty old , 7 years old and i don`t know if anything internally would change them. Please respond with your info ! I really need it.

 

I aprecciate a lot, Alex

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#141 Nightlilly89

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 05:59 PM

Matt -

Did you use the light consistantly for any period of time after treatment? This is my first time using it after a procedure and I'm not sure how long to go for. Did you do it daily for a while, or not really?

#142 mr. matt

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 10:39 PM

Yes, I used the light for five minutes each on my left and right cheeks. I'm still using it and will probably continue to do so for the next couple of weeks. After that, I'm not sure.

It really helps with the inflammation and I hope that it helps with the collagen development.

#143 Pord

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 09:53 AM

Yes, I used the light for five minutes each on my left and right cheeks. I'm still using it and will probably continue to do so for the next couple of weeks. After that, I'm not sure.

It really helps with the inflammation and I hope that it helps with the collagen development.


Is there research that proves that LEDs help with collagen remodeling?

#144 mr. matt

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 10:25 AM

I found this article in the Indian Journal of Dermatology: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2763719/

Fibroblasts are responsible for producing collagen.

"Light-emitting diode (LED)
Apart from the light- and laser-based devices described above, three newly described nonablative technologies have been used for treatment in ethnic skin types. Light Emitting Diodes (LEDs) represent the latest advancement in visible spectrum, monochromatic light therapy for photoaged skin. Typically, LEDs in devices are arrayed in panels, and each emits visible light in a ±10-20 nm band around the dominant emitted wavelength. Energy output is less than 25 W, representing a fluence of about 0.1 J/cm2. The Gentlewaves LED device (Light Biosciences, Virginia Beach, VA, USA) recently received approval from the US Food and Drug Administration for the treatment of periorbital wrinkling.20 In brief, this device is thought to act by targeted stimulation of fibroblastic mitochondrial metabolic activity, concomitant upregulation of procollagen, and downregulation of matrix metalloproteinase I.21,22 "

I've read other articles on the web that talk about how LED's can be effective in wound repair which is why I have used my unit after my subcision and laser treatments.

http://www.thorlaser.com/wound/clinical-research.htm

Time will tell if this is an effective way to produce collagen.....

#145 Pord

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 10:39 AM

I found this article in the Indian Journal of Dermatology: http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2763719/

Fibroblasts are responsible for producing collagen.

"Light-emitting diode (LED)
Apart from the light- and laser-based devices described above, three newly described nonablative technologies have been used for treatment in ethnic skin types. Light Emitting Diodes (LEDs) represent the latest advancement in visible spectrum, monochromatic light therapy for photoaged skin. Typically, LEDs in devices are arrayed in panels, and each emits visible light in a ±10-20 nm band around the dominant emitted wavelength. Energy output is less than 25 W, representing a fluence of about 0.1 J/cm2. The Gentlewaves LED device (Light Biosciences, Virginia Beach, VA, USA) recently received approval from the US Food and Drug Administration for the treatment of periorbital wrinkling.20 In brief, this device is thought to act by targeted stimulation of fibroblastic mitochondrial metabolic activity, concomitant upregulation of procollagen, and downregulation of matrix metalloproteinase I.21,22 "

I've read other articles on the web that talk about how LED's can be effective in wound repair which is why I have used my unit after my subcision and laser treatments.

http://www.thorlaser...al-research.htm

Time will tell if this is an effective way to produce collagen.....


Great reply. Please keep us posted.

Edited by Pord, 16 January 2012 - 10:39 AM.


#146 Frax1

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 12:32 PM

Matt,

how long did you wait after each subcision treatment before derma rolling?

Thank you!

#147 mr. matt

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 06:42 PM

I typically wait 42 days or six weeks which is the time that I've read that it takes for the skin to repair itself.

#148 Coppedsynergy999

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 01:24 AM

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#149 mrjarjarbinks77

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 04:54 PM

Congrats man. Thanks for sharing. I think you are brave. I am looking into fillers but, even that has me scared.

#150 mr. matt

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 05:45 PM

I decided to share my journey because I read someone else's posts on this site who had subcision and had shared her results. Frankly, I was amazed at what I saw and wanted to try subcision and other scar revision methods to help my face.

Just a quick update: it's been 49 days since my fourth subcision treatment. I have a very small lump and bruise on my left cheek that continues to become slightly smaller each week. I'm hopeful that this may be a sign that collagen is developing.

The good news is this: three of the four scars treated on my left cheek have vanished. Gone. They were fairly deep and wide and were quite visible because they were on or near my right cheek bone.

I used the 'suction' technique mentioned by a previous poster and it seemed to make all of the difference in the world. I keep looking at myself in the mirror at work, in my car, and in our bathroom waiting for the scars to return, but they haven't.

I have two scars on my right cheek that seemed to have evaded the Nokor needle that I may get treated at a later point in time.

Life is good.....

#151 mrjarjarbinks77

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 10:15 PM

I am so happy for you man. I am considering fillers for a scar but, I am thinking that I am being a coward about it. I prob should do what you do for subcision to really handle it but, I cannot deal with a lot of time off work. I need to work and pay bills. I heard its anywhere from $250 and up per scar. That is awesome. Any photo updates? Congrats again man. Was it any one thing that made the difference or the combo of subcision and fillers?

#152 Coppedsynergy999

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 03:02 AM

Yeah I want to get subcision but Im being a baby about it. I mean, it doesnt sound like that big of a deal. You take a needle and cut underneath skin. I figure its a relatively low risk procedure. Hey Matt, any encouraging words?haha. You sound like your out of the woods my friend. Kudos to you for gettin er done.

#153 mr. matt

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:06 AM

I am so happy for you man. I am considering fillers for a scar but, I am thinking that I am being a coward about it. I prob should do what you do for subcision to really handle it but, I cannot deal with a lot of time off work. I need to work and pay bills. I heard its anywhere from $250 and up per scar. That is awesome. Any photo updates? Congrats again man. Was it any one thing that made the difference or the combo of subcision and fillers?


Acne scarring is notoriously difficult to treat and to see improvement especially if your scarring is significant.

I have not had any fillers - they are temporary and expensive. I was quoted $2100 for Sculptura or something similar. It doesn't make sense to pay that kind of money for temporary improvement when I can have multiple subcision treatments and have a long-lasting and/or permament improvement.


Based upon the photos I took after I removed my bandages on day two, it looks as if my doctor went after my scars from a variety of angles to undermine them as much as possible. I think that this is one reason why I had dramatic improvement with this last round of subcision.

Next, I've been dermarolling for at least two years - one session every 42 days or six weeks. Collagen has been developing and with the tethered scar tissue broken, my skin kind of 'bloomed' in the areas that were treated. That is to say that the skin lifted.

The three scars that are gone now on my left cheek were deep and visible under certain types of lighting. The 'vacuuming' that I did for two weeks may have also helped to prevent the scars from re-attaching. It was very 'unorthodox' but it does make sense that you 'undermine' the scars from reattaching by pulling the epidermis away fibrous bands during the healing process.

I've also been appling a cream from Reviva labs which contains Ester C, DMAE, and Alpha Lipoic Acid. All three of these are supposed to help with collagen development, skin tightening, and scar revision.

In addition to this, I've been taking 50 mg of Zinc everyday.

As a reminder, my improvement was not an 'overnight' success. I've also done multiple chemical peels (70% Glycolic Acid or 70% Lactic Acid) along with one 25% TCA peel. I also have been using topical Retina-A for at least three years - I highly recommend this as it does produce collagen and make your skin look good.

It's taken a lot of procedures and time to get this far.....

Hope this helps.

Yeah I want to get subcision but Im being a baby about it. I mean, it doesnt sound like that big of a deal. You take a needle and cut underneath skin. I figure its a relatively low risk procedure. Hey Matt, any encouraging words?haha. You sound like your out of the woods my friend. Kudos to you for gettin er done.


If you can go to the dentist and get a cavity filled, you can certainly undergo a subcision procedure. Posted Image

The worst part are the injections of anesthetic. Posted Image

No pain: No gain.

The other is the recovery period. This is not a 'lunch time' procedure meaning that you can go back to work right away if you have multiple areas treated. Posted Image

Even after two weeks post procedure, I still had bruising and some swelling. My wife bought some concealor for me and it didn't do a good job of hiding the black/blue and orangish bruises. For me, hibernating was the best option.

But, subcision has been, by far, the most effective thing I've ever done to improve my complexion and so worth it!

I would encourage you to take another look at your options.

Ciao....

#154 mrjarjarbinks77

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 09:07 PM

I have scarring, 1 I am insecure about, 1 shallow and 1 I think box car relatively close to each other. The scars have healed, one is noticeable, the other not so much. I believe fillers will help me but, I do not have the balls to do all that you have. I have under gone a family misfortunate, lost some family, and I have responsibilites to take care of them. I was depressed about this shit since, I workout, I eat healthy, I deprive myself from all that tastes good, I have my body fat under 10%, full abs, six pack, and lean muscle mass. How do I struggle with this? It blows my mind away. I have a lot of insecurities, self esteem issues, and I have built myself from the ground up using self help. I have seeked help from all sorts of these gurus from Eckhart Tolle to Tony Robbins. For things like dating, I even dabbled into pick up which is pretty embarrassing, and even shameful. I have conquered things like approach anxiety. Even stranger is having a amateur boxing, kick boxing, and comeptive martial arts background growing up. I never cared about looks or my skin. I just fought but, I gradually got insecure with age and my skin seem to get worse acne as time went ont. I always thought it would correct itself.

Fortunately, I have my acne under control. Its not perfect but, 99% better. What has changed? Nothing. I eat healthy, I workout, I keep positive, I do some yoga, I am practicing meditation, I am doing a 10day mental challenge I read from a book to let go of negative thoughts under 2minutes or I have to start the 10day challenge again, I continue to plug away, and I do my best not to let a pretty girl pass me by without approaching. It isn't always easy but, I am working towards a higher self and getting past this crap. If I don't, my kids or future grand kids can take on this battle. I would hate for them to face it.

I understand where you come from with fillers and temporary success. Then again, there is a lot of risks involved in laser treatment, some who are even scarred far worse with these expensive treatments but, doing nothing sucks too so, I am considering fillers. Looking into juvederm, restylane, and other fillers. I am scared how I will react to it and even in situations where skin gets infected. I don't know what I would do.


I just want to say how brave you are. Thank you for sharing your success story with me. Out of curiosity, how did you meet your wife and did she ever care about it? One thing I noticed, I was out, saw a beautiful girl with my cousin, and we really hit it off. Unfortunately, this was out of state but, it was great. To my surprise, my skin was awful, broken out, and I didn't look my best. It made no difference. What is crazy is that, if I knew that, i probably wouldn't have approached her. This has stayed with me. I keep trying to reinforce positive thoughts, care and concer to others here on the forums. I never know how far gone people are with depression or negative thoughts and to what extent they will go. At times, it may be just a kind word that brings someone back down from the craziness. I know I could use a pattern change when I have negative thoughts fluttering through my mind.

#155 mr. matt

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 05:01 PM

I have scarring, 1 I am insecure about, 1 shallow and 1 I think box car relatively close to each other. The scars have healed, one is noticeable, the other not so much. I believe fillers will help me but, I do not have the balls to do all that you have. I have under gone a family misfortunate, lost some family, and I have responsibilites to take care of them. I was depressed about this shit since, I workout, I eat healthy, I deprive myself from all that tastes good, I have my body fat under 10%, full abs, six pack, and lean muscle mass. How do I struggle with this? It blows my mind away. I have a lot of insecurities, self esteem issues, and I have built myself from the ground up using self help. I have seeked help from all sorts of these gurus from Eckhart Tolle to Tony Robbins. For things like dating, I even dabbled into pick up which is pretty embarrassing, and even shameful. I have conquered things like approach anxiety. Even stranger is having a amateur boxing, kick boxing, and comeptive martial arts background growing up. I never cared about looks or my skin. I just fought but, I gradually got insecure with age and my skin seem to get worse acne as time went ont. I always thought it would correct itself.

Fortunately, I have my acne under control. Its not perfect but, 99% better. What has changed? Nothing. I eat healthy, I workout, I keep positive, I do some yoga, I am practicing meditation, I am doing a 10day mental challenge I read from a book to let go of negative thoughts under 2minutes or I have to start the 10day challenge again, I continue to plug away, and I do my best not to let a pretty girl pass me by without approaching. It isn't always easy but, I am working towards a higher self and getting past this crap. If I don't, my kids or future grand kids can take on this battle. I would hate for them to face it.

I understand where you come from with fillers and temporary success. Then again, there is a lot of risks involved in laser treatment, some who are even scarred far worse with these expensive treatments but, doing nothing sucks too so, I am considering fillers. Looking into juvederm, restylane, and other fillers. I am scared how I will react to it and even in situations where skin gets infected. I don't know what I would do.


I just want to say how brave you are. Thank you for sharing your success story with me. Out of curiosity, how did you meet your wife and did she ever care about it? One thing I noticed, I was out, saw a beautiful girl with my cousin, and we really hit it off. Unfortunately, this was out of state but, it was great. To my surprise, my skin was awful, broken out, and I didn't look my best. It made no difference. What is crazy is that, if I knew that, i probably wouldn't have approached her. This has stayed with me. I keep trying to reinforce positive thoughts, care and concer to others here on the forums. I never know how far gone people are with depression or negative thoughts and to what extent they will go. At times, it may be just a kind word that brings someone back down from the craziness. I know I could use a pattern change when I have negative thoughts fluttering through my mind.


Thanks for your response.

I think all of us, if we're honest, have insecurities about a lot of things. Having acne and the resulting scarring does not help build or help our self-esteem or alleviate anxieties - it can sometimes make them worse.

When I got to the point where I didn't like the appearance of the 'man in the mirror', I decided to seek out my options. My mother had had horrible disfiguring cystic acne and, up until the day she passed away, would not turn on the light in the bathroom when she entered. She didn't like how she looked.

However, this never prevented her from being successful in life. She had A LOT of friends who accepted her and family members who loved her just the way she was. She had dermabrasion done in the '1950's and even had a facelift in her 20's thinking that this would help her appearance. It didn't do a whole lot for her scarring.

But, she never seemed to let it get her down. She was, despite the scarring, a beautiful person inside and out.

Getting back to your last question, I actually met my wife in church and she has always had a complexion like Christie Brinkley - beautiful, flawless skin. When I told her that I was going to pursue laser and other treatments to help my scarring she told me that my scarring never mattered to her. She loved me for the person I was on the inside and not the person I was on the outside.

I think that we all judge ourselves more harshly than others actually do. At the heart of it, I think that we're all afraid that our acne scarring will cause others to reject us.

Matt

#156 Nightlilly89

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 06:02 PM

That was a really nice post Mr. Matt. It's defeinetly a challenge to be that person affected by the scarring. I totally agree that people see past it, because I I always look past others imperfections. But when it's on us, it's hard. No matter what anyone looks like, I just hope we all find peace and acceptance.

#157 mrjarjarbinks77

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 07:09 PM


I have scarring, 1 I am insecure about, 1 shallow and 1 I think box car relatively close to each other. The scars have healed, one is noticeable, the other not so much. I believe fillers will help me but, I do not have the balls to do all that you have. I have under gone a family misfortunate, lost some family, and I have responsibilites to take care of them. I was depressed about this shit since, I workout, I eat healthy, I deprive myself from all that tastes good, I have my body fat under 10%, full abs, six pack, and lean muscle mass. How do I struggle with this? It blows my mind away. I have a lot of insecurities, self esteem issues, and I have built myself from the ground up using self help. I have seeked help from all sorts of these gurus from Eckhart Tolle to Tony Robbins. For things like dating, I even dabbled into pick up which is pretty embarrassing, and even shameful. I have conquered things like approach anxiety. Even stranger is having a amateur boxing, kick boxing, and comeptive martial arts background growing up. I never cared about looks or my skin. I just fought but, I gradually got insecure with age and my skin seem to get worse acne as time went ont. I always thought it would correct itself.

Fortunately, I have my acne under control. Its not perfect but, 99% better. What has changed? Nothing. I eat healthy, I workout, I keep positive, I do some yoga, I am practicing meditation, I am doing a 10day mental challenge I read from a book to let go of negative thoughts under 2minutes or I have to start the 10day challenge again, I continue to plug away, and I do my best not to let a pretty girl pass me by without approaching. It isn't always easy but, I am working towards a higher self and getting past this crap. If I don't, my kids or future grand kids can take on this battle. I would hate for them to face it.

I understand where you come from with fillers and temporary success. Then again, there is a lot of risks involved in laser treatment, some who are even scarred far worse with these expensive treatments but, doing nothing sucks too so, I am considering fillers. Looking into juvederm, restylane, and other fillers. I am scared how I will react to it and even in situations where skin gets infected. I don't know what I would do.


I just want to say how brave you are. Thank you for sharing your success story with me. Out of curiosity, how did you meet your wife and did she ever care about it? One thing I noticed, I was out, saw a beautiful girl with my cousin, and we really hit it off. Unfortunately, this was out of state but, it was great. To my surprise, my skin was awful, broken out, and I didn't look my best. It made no difference. What is crazy is that, if I knew that, i probably wouldn't have approached her. This has stayed with me. I keep trying to reinforce positive thoughts, care and concer to others here on the forums. I never know how far gone people are with depression or negative thoughts and to what extent they will go. At times, it may be just a kind word that brings someone back down from the craziness. I know I could use a pattern change when I have negative thoughts fluttering through my mind.


Thanks for your response.

I think all of us, if we're honest, have insecurities about a lot of things. Having acne and the resulting scarring does not help build or help our self-esteem or alleviate anxieties - it can sometimes make them worse.

When I got to the point where I didn't like the appearance of the 'man in the mirror', I decided to seek out my options. My mother had had horrible disfiguring cystic acne and, up until the day she passed away, would not turn on the light in the bathroom when she entered. She didn't like how she looked.

However, this never prevented her from being successful in life. She had A LOT of friends who accepted her and family members who loved her just the way she was. She had dermabrasion done in the '1950's and even had a facelift in her 20's thinking that this would help her appearance. It didn't do a whole lot for her scarring.

But, she never seemed to let it get her down. She was, despite the scarring, a beautiful person inside and out.

Getting back to your last question, I actually met my wife in church and she has always had a complexion like Christie Brinkley - beautiful, flawless skin. When I told her that I was going to pursue laser and other treatments to help my scarring she told me that my scarring never mattered to her. She loved me for the person I was on the inside and not the person I was on the outside.

I think that we all judge ourselves more harshly than others actually do. At the heart of it, I think that we're all afraid that our acne scarring will cause others to reject us.

Matt


Thanks so much man. I am having damage to the skin after years of acne. Mini imperfections, things I would dread to see of me in 1080 pi, and a scar that I want to have dealt with. I think you are brave. Unfortunately for me, I have not had much luck with my skin though, it has finally cleared up in my 20s through diet but, there is much I would like to correct. I imagine that, I will never have smooth beautiful skin like your wife. We both wont and this isn't to be cynical or negative. It just wasn't meant to be for us. I find the belief in god has been quite difficult for me. If depression and constant knocks at my self esteem were not a enough, I lost quite a bit of family, and I don't know which way is up any more (at least when things first happened).

Your success story is quite encouraging. I am considering my options. As you would know, approaching a beautiful stranger is difficult a task as is being without this curese nevermind the consciousness of acne or scars or both, the long term anxiety, and lack of confidence that it causes. I am glad you have strengthened your faith through this and found someone awesome. One of the things I never want to do is give up or jump into something cause of a feeling of lack of self worth. I am so happy with your success, with what this means but, I am shocked that even after you found your wife or have kids, and love, you still desire to reconcile this matter? That it never went to rest?

One of the amazing things I find is that, I can turn to a perfect stranger, share a kind word or even post a stranger a kind message, and yet, turn around to attack myself? I see a guy or girl and I admire them, even envy their beautiful flawless skin. How much I have dedicated to reaching that goal, to giving up sweets, junk foods, prioritizing nutrition, watching for trigger foods, and to be left with such a empty feeling sucks. I am looking into options. I think my only real hope is luck (which hasn't been on my side) and maybe advances in technology. I think our future is in stem cell research development but, that does us no good right now.

I have been forced to become mentally tough. Develop a stronger self or perish with my negative and limiting beliefs. Curl and ball and just die. This wasn't what my father or mother raised me to be but, it is very crippling and at times, feels very hopeless. I saw a beautiful young girl post a picture all upset and sad of her skin. I didn't even see what she was upset about till she pointed out exactly what. It is so overlooked and yet, we attack ourselves in the mirror. I think the biggest thing that bugs me is the misconceptions that, I don't care or that, it is poor hygiene when, it really is shitty genetics. To my astonishment, I have no record or history in my family of cystic or nodular acne and yet, my skin had slight blemishes growing up. Adult acne is the worst since, your body doesn't heal the way you do when young and when the dermis is attacked, it results in a scar. I know things can be treated to look better but, they never will be the same. If only I had Seal's strength and could love scars.

#158 10yearswiththis

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 05:38 PM

Matt and any other dermaroller pro's.....

What size of needle do you recommend?......1.5, 2.0? Any particular brand that anybody swears by?

Thanks

#159 mr. matt

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 06:02 PM

Matt and any other dermaroller pro's.....

What size of needle do you recommend?......1.5, 2.0? Any particular brand that anybody swears by?

Thanks


I use a 1.5 mm dermaroller made from surgical steel. I've had it for about a year now and I've been very pleased with it. The needles have not bent or broken.

I bought it online and don't remember which site I used to buy it.

I've been pleased with the device and the results.

#160 ashes123

ashes123

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 03:53 PM

Hi Matt,

I read through all the posts with great attention and delight. Im considering going to a doctor who offers subcision and plan to mention the suction technique. But one last question remains which still hasnt been completely answered. Subcision ALONE is generally considered as an effective treatment option of "rolling scars". Does the suction method change this? I mean can you treat shallow boxcar scars and maybe even ice pick scars with it ? Because the described treatment of "subcision suction" seems reasonable for every kind of scar. Why should releasing the tethers of a scar and keeping them from reattaching not work for every scar ? I mean every kind of scar is a scar because the tethers are pulling it down. Its confusing what Im saying but can you understand me? What do you thinK ? Thanks for a reply in advance




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