Man in the Mirror: Pre and Post Subcision Photos

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p.s. what are the risks of subcision matt? It seems that you are very knowledgeable about it...so please let me know...as I am sure I will have to sign a consent. I am 80% sure that I am going through with it and have some more questions for the doc next week that I am going to ask.

Thanks,

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p.s. what are the risks of subcision matt? It seems that you are very knowledgeable about it...so please let me know...as I am sure I will have to sign a consent. I am 80% sure that I am going through with it and have some more questions for the doc next week that I am going to ask.

Thanks,

Additional risks include:

1) additional scarring

2) hyperpigmentation from the treated areas

3) subcutaneous nodules (treated with steroid shots)

Of all of the surgical treatments I've reviewed, this one seemed to have the fewest risks.

My doctor had me sign a medical release before my first treatment.

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Thanks so much for your responses.

Yeah I'll take some befores this week and afters a week after the surgery then 4 weeks after the surgery.

Will tazorac/retin A work with the collagen remodeling process after the surgery?

how soon afterwards do you think I can use benzaclin/tazorac?

I will look into a topical Vitamin C-- if you have any recommendations for one-- I was thinking mainly to take tazorac topically, then vitamin C orally for collagen boosting--

and benzaclin during daytime for usual acne maintenance (I'm 23).

I am planning ot have 5 days where I am just staying in and not doing anything after that and just staying in the house.

how long did you have to keep your bandages on?

What do you think of the derma sanding after the subcisions are done that day?

how many subcisions exactly did you have done? Afdter 5 weeks what would you say your improvement/satisfaction percentage is after the first round?

Thanks, P.s. I may do it again if I have to but I'd like to keep it a 1 round thing

also, do they put stictches in that you have to return after a couple days to get taken out?

Thanks

Retin-A should help with the collagen remodeling process. I would use it for at least six months or as long as your physician recommends using it.

Ask your doctor about how soon you should wait before using any topical medications, however, as your skin will have just gone through the "trauma" of subcutaneous surgery.

If your doctor is going to do some sanding after the subcision process, you may need more than five days to recuperate. Subcision treats the scarring beneath the skin whereas the sanding will affect your epidermis.

You may want to apply Aquaphor on your face if your doctor is going to be sanding your face; that sounds painful to me.

My doctor had me leave my bandages on for 24 hours. My face looked really "odd" after I got all of the bandages, tape, and guaze off of my face.

I had a lot of rolling scars treated on both of my cheeks and chin; I'm not sure how many scars were treated.

I had the most dramatic improvement after my first round of subcision in March of this year. My latest round was on May 8th so, today marks week three. I haven't seen the dramatic improvement I did after the first round, but it is still early in the healing process.

Here is the link for the topical vitamin c serum. I think that this is a truly "natural" way to promote collagen remodeling.

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewt...d.php?tid=10491

You can make this vitamin C serum for a fraction of what you would pay online if you make it yourself.

Hope this helps.

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Hi Matt,

actually the doctor doesn't think dermasanding will be that useful as of yet.

So basic prognosis:

subcision

followed by a filler with hyaluronic acid

no stitching

No punches planned as of yet, but I have a feeling that he may "punch a couple of the smaller scars".

But not sure yet.

basically I will probably have subcision on about 4 scars on the right cheek. WIll probably not have any on the left cheek.

Am having it done on the 22nd.

I asked the questions I needed to and the doctor has done this procedure 4 times in the past 6 months and has been practicing 20 years and has done this procedure for a long time. It seems that he is skillful.

For the whole procedure and the filler it will be around 600 dollars.

I hope I can get around 50% improvement. I am very hopeful. Maybe I can be lucky and get even more improvement. Most people achieve 30-50%. Also they have treated people with much worse scarring than my own so that is also encouraging that they have treated some people with worse, but they also have done ones similar to mine.

What did you mean when you took your bandages off your face looked weird?

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Hi Matt,

actually the doctor doesn't think dermasanding will be that useful as of yet.

So basic prognosis:

subcision

followed by a filler with hyaluronic acid

no stitching

No punches planned as of yet, but I have a feeling that he may "punch a couple of the smaller scars".

But not sure yet.

basically I will probably have subcision on about 4 scars on the right cheek. WIll probably not have any on the left cheek.

Am having it done on the 22nd.

I asked the questions I needed to and the doctor has done this procedure 4 times in the past 6 months and has been practicing 20 years and has done this procedure for a long time. It seems that he is skillful.

For the whole procedure and the filler it will be around 600 dollars.

I hope I can get around 50% improvement. I am very hopeful. Maybe I can be lucky and get even more improvement. Most people achieve 30-50%. Also they have treated people with much worse scarring than my own so that is also encouraging that they have treated some people with worse, but they also have done ones similar to mine.

What did you mean when you took your bandages off your face looked weird?

If you look at the photos in my album, you'll see that I had bandages taped in various directions across my face and the goal was to minimize excessive bruising and bleeding.

So, the tape ended up stretching the skin on my face so that enough pressure was applied to the injection sites.

As a result, when I took the tape and bandages off the next day, my face looked rather contorted and "wrinkly" from the tape pulling my face in different directions.

Within a few hours, my face didn't look quite so contorted.

I am seriously thinking about putting up a website that shows more photos of what my skin looked like each day after both procedures. When I had my first treatment done, I had NO idea of what to expect.

I would have like to have had someone else's photos to look at to get a better idea of what I should expect after the procedure.

I definitely learned to use icepacks on my face after the procedure and it really minimized by bruising.

Matt

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so 7 days afterwards is definitely okay to start work? I am starting a new job exactly 7 days after is why I am asking.

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so 7 days afterwards is definitely okay to start work? I am starting a new job exactly 7 days after is why I am asking.

Yes, you should be fine. Learn from what I should have done after my first subcision treatment: apply ice packs to your face in the morning and evening for at least three to four days and stay out of the sun.

I honestly thought that I had developed hyperpigmentation after my first round of subcision because my cheeks turned orangish/yellow. It was actually bruising from the procedure.

Please take "before and after' photos as the improvement can be incremental and it is very easy to forget how bad your scarring may have been based upon the amount of improvement you get from the treatment.

I look back at my photos from time to time to see just how far I have come.

Keep us posted. We can all learn from one another's experiences.

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will do. Thank you for all your help and advice from your experience. I really think that people can find a way to get rid of acne scarring. As a believer in modern medical science I believe there are ways to do anything.

I think for people with deep scarring it definitely requires 1-2 rounds of some form of skin surgery (i.e. subcision, skin graft, excision, punch graft, etc.) and then that can be followed up by fillers if necessary, or afterwards do soemthing like a dermasanding or a laser surgery like fraxel after enough healing time. In combination with that and a good topical retinoid I think it is definitely possible to really make skin look completely different and better than before. There is no reason why there shouldn't be ways to do these things. I think people just need to learn how to diagnose the issue and then find a regiment that will lead them to the best form of success.

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will do. Thank you for all your help and advice from your experience. I really think that people can find a way to get rid of acne scarring. As a believer in modern medical science I believe there are ways to do anything.

I think for people with deep scarring it definitely requires 1-2 rounds of some form of skin surgery (i.e. subcision, skin graft, excision, punch graft, etc.) and then that can be followed up by fillers if necessary, or afterwards do soemthing like a dermasanding or a laser surgery like fraxel after enough healing time. In combination with that and a good topical retinoid I think it is definitely possible to really make skin look completely different and better than before. There is no reason why there shouldn't be ways to do these things. I think people just need to learn how to diagnose the issue and then find a regiment that will lead them to the best form of success.

Subcision - Round Three

I just returned home from my dermatologist's office where I had my third round of subcision performed.

This time, I did not have the TCA Method performed.

My doctor started the initial meeting by telling me how pleased he was with my results and asked me if I really thought that I needed a third round of subcision. I replied by telling him that I did want a third round as there some scars that had not been treated during the previous two rounds.

I really appreciated his questioning attitude as it showed me that he was not going to perform the procedure just to make money.

He also said that the improvement that I had shown after the first procedure was, by far, the most dramatic improvement he had seen with my scarring.

The injections with the anesthetic really hurt this time as he injected anesthetic very close to my eyes and right temple. :ninja: Ouch!

Like the last time, I could hear the fibrous bands breaking as he fanned the 18 guage Nokor needle under my skin. This time, I noticed that he used a separate needle on each cheek. I guess the ends can become worn during the procedure.

My doctor told me that he was not comfortable treating some scars on my left jawline due to the close proximity of major arteries and veins. He said that it would be safer and much wiser to treat this specific area with laser. I appreciated his frankness and concern for my safety.

I opted not to get any dermal filler this time as I knew that my skin would swell up as soon as he started to inject my face with the anesthetic and I wanted to use dermal fillers only as a last resort after my third and final round of subcision had healed and after I had completed my laser treatment in November.

Right now, I look like a complete mummy. Both of my cheeks and nose are completely covered with cotton balls and guaze. I'm sure that the people who saw me in the parking lot must of wondered what had happened to me as I looked quite odd.

I'm going back in November for a Pearl Fractional Laser treatment and I think that I will call it "quits" after that.

It's been an amazing journey since I began my subcision and TCA Cross treatments back in March of this year.

I've learned a lot from so many of you who have posted threads on this site and have greatly appreciated the encouraging e-mails people have sent me. I am doubly grateful for having a forum like this one where I could learn about what worked and it didn't work for people.

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hi matt, i was wondering with tca cross for icepicks , if there is a wide gap, does it close the gap so more close , or something else?. does it still continue to look as scarred ? thanks

subcsion has done great for you!!!!

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will do. Thank you for all your help and advice from your experience. I really think that people can find a way to get rid of acne scarring. As a believer in modern medical science I believe there are ways to do anything.

I think for people with deep scarring it definitely requires 1-2 rounds of some form of skin surgery (i.e. subcision, skin graft, excision, punch graft, etc.) and then that can be followed up by fillers if necessary, or afterwards do soemthing like a dermasanding or a laser surgery like fraxel after enough healing time. In combination with that and a good topical retinoid I think it is definitely possible to really make skin look completely different and better than before. There is no reason why there shouldn't be ways to do these things. I think people just need to learn how to diagnose the issue and then find a regiment that will lead them to the best form of success.

Subcision - Round Three

I just returned home from my dermatologist's office where I had my third round of subcision performed.

This time, I did not have the TCA Method performed.

My doctor started the initial meeting by telling me how pleased he was with my results and asked me if I really thought that I needed a third round of subcision. I replied by telling him that I did want a third round as there some scars that had not been treated during the previous two rounds.

I really appreciated his questioning attitude as it showed me that he was not going to perform the procedure just to make money.

He also said that the improvement that I had shown after the first procedure was, by far, the most dramatic improvement he had seen with my scarring.

The injections with the anesthetic really hurt this time as he injected anesthetic very close to my eyes and right temple. :ninja: Ouch!

Like the last time, I could hear the fibrous bands breaking as he fanned the 18 guage Nokor needle under my skin. This time, I noticed that he used a separate needle on each cheek. I guess the ends can become worn during the procedure.

My doctor told me that he was not comfortable treating some scars on my left jawline due to the close proximity of major arteries and veins. He said that it would be safer and much wiser to treat this specific area with laser. I appreciated his frankness and concern for my safety.

I opted not to get any dermal filler this time as I knew that my skin would swell up as soon as he started to inject my face with the anesthetic and I wanted to use dermal fillers only as a last resort after my third and final round of subcision had healed and after I had completed my laser treatment in November.

Right now, I look like a complete mummy. Both of my cheeks and nose are completely covered with cotton balls and guaze. I'm sure that the people who saw me in the parking lot must of wondered what had happened to me as I looked quite odd.

I'm going back in November for a Pearl Fractional Laser treatment and I think that I will call it "quits" after that.

It's been an amazing journey since I began my subcision and TCA Cross treatments back in March of this year.

I've learned a lot from so many of you who have posted threads on this site and have greatly appreciated the encouraging e-mails people have sent me. I am doubly grateful for having a forum like this one where I could learn about what worked and it didn't work for people.

Hey Matt, thanks for the update. I will be having subcision done soon, so it's great to learn from other people's experience with the procedure. Hopefully you continue to post pictures :)

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hi matt, i was wondering with tca cross for icepicks , if there is a wide gap, does it close the gap so more close , or something else?. does it still continue to look as scarred ? thanks

subcsion has done great for you!!!!

My doctor did TCA Cross on a very large scarred pore on my nose.

He treated it twice and the first time this pore was treated it left a scab that eventually fell off. This particular scar did respond well to the TCA. However, it is still larger than most people's pores who have had normal skin all of their lives.

Ice pick scars that are treated with TCA should respond at various degrees to the treatment. However, everyone's skin reacts differently and heals at different rates so it is hard to say how much improvement you may get from this treatment.

From what I've read and experienced, it seems to be the most effective treatment for this type of scarring.

I would encourage anyone who is getting their skin treated for acne scarring (laser, TCA Cross, TCA peel, subcision, etc.) to do their research and ask lots of questions. Also, taking care of your skin is also vitally important (sunscreen, topical antioxidants, etc.)

Take care,

Matt

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hi matt, i was wondering with tca cross for icepicks , if there is a wide gap, does it close the gap so more close , or something else?. does it still continue to look as scarred ? thanks

subcsion has done great for you!!!!

My doctor did TCA Cross on a very large scarred pore on my nose.

He treated it twice and the first time this pore was treated it left a scab that eventually fell off. This particular scar did respond well to the TCA. However, it is still larger than most people's pores who have had normal skin all of their lives.

Ice pick scars that are treated with TCA should respond at various degrees to the treatment. However, everyone's skin reacts differently and heals at different rates so it is hard to say how much improvement you may get from this treatment.

From what I've read and experienced, it seems to be the most effective treatment for this type of scarring.

I would encourage anyone who is getting their skin treated for acne scarring (laser, TCA Cross, TCA peel, subcision, etc.) to do their research and ask lots of questions. Also, taking care of your skin is also vitally important (sunscreen, topical antioxidants, etc.)

Take care,

Matt

After doing a lot of research online and speaking with my dermatologist, I purchased a dermaroller device from E-Bay last week and performed my first "rolling" this evening.

I bought a dermaroller with 1.5 mm needles for about $30.00.

I came across the following post from a former patient of Dr. Chu's and decided to try dermarolling to supplement the three subcision treatments I've had this year.

http://www.clearskin.net/viewtopic.php?t=9375

I did a little bit more research and found the following article that Dr. Chu wrote about treating scars and was very impressed with how much he endorses dermarolling:

http://www.cheshirelasers.co.uk/documents/...odyLanguage.pdf

My dermatologist sent me a copy of a scientific article that outlines a study which was published in 2008 by the American Society of Plastic Surgeons entitled: "Percutaneous Collagen Induction Therapy: An Alternative Treatment for Scars, Wrinkles, and Skin Laxity."

I was amazed at the results that these physicians were able to obtain with the four hundred plus patients who were a part of this study.

As you can see, I like to do a lot of research before I will consider any type of new or alternative medical treatment. :surprised:

Having read this research and Dr. Chu's endorsement of Collagen Induction Therapy (Dermarolling), I decided to try this alternative treatment.

I started by washing my hands with soap and water. Then, I applied Hibiclens (an antiseptic/antimicrobial skin cleanser) that my dermatologist used on my face before my subcision treatments. You can purchase Hibiclens at most drugstores.

I also soaked the dermaroller in alcohol for ten minutes to disenfect it as well.

While the dermaroller was soaking in alcohol, I applied a 2% Lidocaine gel to my face and let it sit there for ten minutes.

I started with my forehead, moved to my temple areas, and then to both cheeks followed by my chin.

As Dr. Chu explained in the above article, your skin appears as if it is sunburned immediately after rolling. I probably should have waited longer for the Lidocaine to take effect as the "needling" did hurt. I would be lying to say that it didn't. I didn't see any bleeding and I was fairly aggressive with my rolling. Afterwards, my youngest son pointed out some very, very faint and small drops of blood on my face.

However, "NO PAIN/NO GAIN."

I'm hopefully optimistic that this process with "jump start" the collagen remodeling process in my skin. After three subcision treatments, I don't think that I have any fibrous bands left holding down my epidermis. However, I would like to see more collagen development.

Based upon what I've read, dermarolling/needling can result in a "lattice-work" pattern of collagen formation that produces smother looking skin.

I have a lot of "before" and "after"photos of my journey with subcision. I'm now ready to go down the "dermarolling path" and see what type of improvement this leads to.

I'll post photos in about a month.

I'm still scheduled for a Pearl Fractional Laser treatment in November......

Best wishes to you on your journey to healing.

Matt

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hi matt, i was wondering with tca cross for icepicks , if there is a wide gap, does it close the gap so more close , or something else?. does it still continue to look as scarred ? thanks

subcsion has done great for you!!!!

My doctor did TCA Cross on a very large scarred pore on my nose.

He treated it twice and the first time this pore was treated it left a scab that eventually fell off. This particular scar did respond well to the TCA. However, it is still larger than most people's pores who have had normal skin all of their lives.

Ice pick scars that are treated with TCA should respond at various degrees to the treatment. However, everyone's skin reacts differently and heals at different rates so it is hard to say how much improvement you may get from this treatment.

From what I've read and experienced, it seems to be the most effective treatment for this type of scarring.

I would encourage anyone who is getting their skin treated for acne scarring (laser, TCA Cross, TCA peel, subcision, etc.) to do their research and ask lots of questions. Also, taking care of your skin is also vitally important (sunscreen, topical antioxidants, etc.)

Take care,

Matt

After doing a lot of research online and speaking with my dermatologist, I purchased a dermaroller device from E-Bay last week and performed my first "rolling" this evening.

I bought a dermaroller with 1.5 mm needles for about $30.00.

I came across the following post from a former patient of Dr. Chu's and decided to try dermarolling to supplement the three subcision treatments I've had this year.

http://www.clearskin.net/viewtopic.php?t=9375

I did a little bit more research and found the following article that Dr. Chu wrote about treating scars and was very impressed with how much he endorses dermarolling:

http://www.cheshirelasers.co.uk/documents/...odyLanguage.pdf

My dermatologist sent me a copy of a scientific article that outlines a study which was published in 2008 by the American Society of Plastic Surgeons entitled: "Percutaneous Collagen Induction Therapy: An Alternative Treatment for Scars, Wrinkles, and Skin Laxity."

I was amazed at the results that these physicians were able to obtain with the four hundred plus patients who were a part of this study.

As you can see, I like to do a lot of research before I will consider any type of new or alternative medical treatment. :surprised:

Having read this research and Dr. Chu's endorsement of Collagen Induction Therapy (Dermarolling), I decided to try this alternative treatment.

I started by washing my hands with soap and water. Then, I applied Hibiclens (an antiseptic/antimicrobial skin cleanser) that my dermatologist used on my face before my subcision treatments. You can purchase Hibiclens at most drugstores.

I also soaked the dermaroller in alcohol for ten minutes to disenfect it as well.

While the dermaroller was soaking in alcohol, I applied a 2% Lidocaine gel to my face and let it sit there for ten minutes.

I started with my forehead, moved to my temple areas, and then to both cheeks followed by my chin.

As Dr. Chu explained in the above article, your skin appears as if it is sunburned immediately after rolling. I probably should have waited longer for the Lidocaine to take effect as the "needling" did hurt. I would be lying to say that it didn't. I didn't see any bleeding and I was fairly aggressive with my rolling. Afterwards, my youngest son pointed out some very, very faint and small drops of blood on my face.

However, "NO PAIN/NO GAIN."

I'm hopefully optimistic that this process with "jump start" the collagen remodeling process in my skin. After three subcision treatments, I don't think that I have any fibrous bands left holding down my epidermis. However, I would like to see more collagen development.

Based upon what I've read, dermarolling/needling can result in a "lattice-work" pattern of collagen formation that produces smother looking skin.

I have a lot of "before" and "after"photos of my journey with subcision. I'm now ready to go down the "dermarolling path" and see what type of improvement this leads to.

I'll post photos in about a month.

I'm still scheduled for a Pearl Fractional Laser treatment in November......

Best wishes to you on your journey to healing.

Matt

can you get Lidocaine over the counter or u need prescription?..Thanks.

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hi matt, i was wondering with tca cross for icepicks , if there is a wide gap, does it close the gap so more close , or something else?. does it still continue to look as scarred ? thanks

subcsion has done great for you!!!!

My doctor did TCA Cross on a very large scarred pore on my nose.

He treated it twice and the first time this pore was treated it left a scab that eventually fell off. This particular scar did respond well to the TCA. However, it is still larger than most people's pores who have had normal skin all of their lives.

Ice pick scars that are treated with TCA should respond at various degrees to the treatment. However, everyone's skin reacts differently and heals at different rates so it is hard to say how much improvement you may get from this treatment.

From what I've read and experienced, it seems to be the most effective treatment for this type of scarring.

I would encourage anyone who is getting their skin treated for acne scarring (laser, TCA Cross, TCA peel, subcision, etc.) to do their research and ask lots of questions. Also, taking care of your skin is also vitally important (sunscreen, topical antioxidants, etc.)

Take care,

Matt

After doing a lot of research online and speaking with my dermatologist, I purchased a dermaroller device from E-Bay last week and performed my first "rolling" this evening.

I bought a dermaroller with 1.5 mm needles for about $30.00.

I came across the following post from a former patient of Dr. Chu's and decided to try dermarolling to supplement the three subcision treatments I've had this year.

http://www.clearskin.net/viewtopic.php?t=9375

I did a little bit more research and found the following article that Dr. Chu wrote about treating scars and was very impressed with how much he endorses dermarolling:

http://www.cheshirelasers.co.uk/documents/...odyLanguage.pdf

My dermatologist sent me a copy of a scientific article that outlines a study which was published in 2008 by the American Society of Plastic Surgeons entitled: "Percutaneous Collagen Induction Therapy: An Alternative Treatment for Scars, Wrinkles, and Skin Laxity."

I was amazed at the results that these physicians were able to obtain with the four hundred plus patients who were a part of this study.

As you can see, I like to do a lot of research before I will consider any type of new or alternative medical treatment. :surprised:

Having read this research and Dr. Chu's endorsement of Collagen Induction Therapy (Dermarolling), I decided to try this alternative treatment.

I started by washing my hands with soap and water. Then, I applied Hibiclens (an antiseptic/antimicrobial skin cleanser) that my dermatologist used on my face before my subcision treatments. You can purchase Hibiclens at most drugstores.

I also soaked the dermaroller in alcohol for ten minutes to disenfect it as well.

While the dermaroller was soaking in alcohol, I applied a 2% Lidocaine gel to my face and let it sit there for ten minutes.

I started with my forehead, moved to my temple areas, and then to both cheeks followed by my chin.

As Dr. Chu explained in the above article, your skin appears as if it is sunburned immediately after rolling. I probably should have waited longer for the Lidocaine to take effect as the "needling" did hurt. I would be lying to say that it didn't. I didn't see any bleeding and I was fairly aggressive with my rolling. Afterwards, my youngest son pointed out some very, very faint and small drops of blood on my face.

However, "NO PAIN/NO GAIN."

I'm hopefully optimistic that this process with "jump start" the collagen remodeling process in my skin. After three subcision treatments, I don't think that I have any fibrous bands left holding down my epidermis. However, I would like to see more collagen development.

Based upon what I've read, dermarolling/needling can result in a "lattice-work" pattern of collagen formation that produces smother looking skin.

I have a lot of "before" and "after"photos of my journey with subcision. I'm now ready to go down the "dermarolling path" and see what type of improvement this leads to.

I'll post photos in about a month.

I'm still scheduled for a Pearl Fractional Laser treatment in November......

Best wishes to you on your journey to healing.

Matt

can you get Lidocaine over the counter or u need prescription?..Thanks.

I got a tube of it from a nurse in the ER where my youngest son was treated after taking a spill on his bike.

I should have waited a full 30 minutes before I started rolling as it was fairly painful.

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Looks good Matt. The roller will be a positive addition to your scar revision program. Thanks for taking the time to post your experience ect..I'm sure many will also appreciate it..Time to rock N roll!! :cool:

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Looks good Matt. The roller will be a positive addition to your scar revision program. Thanks for taking the time to post your experience ect..I'm sure many will also appreciate it..Time to rock N roll!! :cool:

As I mentioned in one of my previous posts, I like to do my research before I will undergo any alternative type of medical treatment.

I've attached a link to an article that my dermatologist sent me about Collagen Induction Therapy (CIT). I found a link and would encourage you to read this article.

Rolling (CIT) appears to offer a lot of promise to those of us who have suffered from acne scarring.

http://www.acaciadermacare.com/upload/docs...pril%202008.pdf

Here is another link from a plastic surgeon on the east coast. What I find really amazing about CIT is that this physician indicates that it is as effective as Erb:YAG laser resurfacing, and far superior to radio frequency ablation (e.g. Thermage®) or phototherapy techniques.

http://www.sanfranciscosnoring.com/non-invasive.php#COLLAGEN

I bought my roller for less than $50 on E-Bay. This may be a far less expensive mode of treatment than many expensive lasers out on the market with less downtime.

Here is another article from the Journal of American Society of Plastic Surgeons about Percutaneous collagen induction therapy. This study was published in November of 2008, so it is fairly recent:

http://journals.lww.com/plasreconsurg/page...p;type=abstract

One thing that I've read on several doctors' websites is that CIT increases the absorption rate of topical vitamin A and C by about 1000 times. As you may know, these vitamins play a key role in the development of fibroblasts and collagen formation.

The next web page is from another physician and gives an excellent overview of CIT:

http://www.cosmeticlasermd.com/OurServices...on-Therapy.aspx

There are another three clinical studies on CIT on the following website:

http://www.microneedle.com/main/clinicalstudy.html

Here is to happy healing for all of you!

Matt

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What is the full recovery time from subsicion ? (from bruise and having red bumps to no bruise at all ) ?

my doctors told me that to have subcision done u will get red bumps and bruise for at least 3-4 months . is it really that long ? i kinda worry since i would like to have it done

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What is the full recovery time from subsicion ? (from bruise and having red bumps to no bruise at all ) ?

my doctors told me that to have subcision done u will get red bumps and bruise for at least 3-4 months . is it really that long ? i kinda worry since i would like to have it done

Recovery is pretty quick, I just had it a week ago and I look perfectly fine now.

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What is the full recovery time from subsicion ? (from bruise and having red bumps to no bruise at all ) ?

my doctors told me that to have subcision done u will get red bumps and bruise for at least 3-4 months . is it really that long ? i kinda worry since i would like to have it done

I've had subcision done three times now.

It took a good seven to ten days for all of my bruising to go away.

If you take a week off from work or school, you should be fine. Remember to use ice packs on your face to minimize bruising and wear sunscreen.

Matt

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I've had subcision done three times now.

Did anyone have more than three subcisions? I've read that a couple of doctors (Orentreich et al) recommend between three and six subcisions for optimal results for medium scarring. So, I guess for deeper scarring one should expect to have more than six subcisions. What are your thoughts on this?

Did you feel that the incremental improvement from each subcision diminishes after the first subcision (significant improvement after the first, but less improvement after the second for example).

I just had one subcision and feel that I would need more than three.

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I've had subcision done three times now.

Did anyone have more than three subcisions? I've read that a couple of doctors (Orentreich et al) recommend between three and six subcisions for optimal results for medium scarring. So, I guess for deeper scarring one should expect to have more than six subcisions. What are your thoughts on this?

Did you feel that the incremental improvement from each subcision diminishes after the first subcision (significant improvement after the first, but less improvement after the second for example).

I just had one subcision and feel that I would need more than three.

I definitely had the most improvement after the first subcision. My doctor did treat a large boxcar scar during my second treatment that responded well. However, he missed two adjacent scars due to the fact that my skin began to swell from the injections and it was hard to see where they were located.

He did get these two scars during the third treatment.

Ideally, I think it is best to either roll (Collagen Induction Therapy) between each subcision treatment or have some type of laser. CIT or laser will definitely promote collagen development.

Based upon what I read, treating rolling and boxcar scars without having subcision first, is probably fairly useless. The fibrous bands holding down the skin need to be broken by subcision, otherwise, I don't think that optimal results will be achieved.

Just my opinion. Others, please chime in....

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Hey Matt

Great results. I was wondering who did the procedures for you? I am in almost the exact same situation, had acne problems in middle and high school, took accutaine and face exploded with acne. Your scarring even looks very similar to mine.

Years ago I tried dermabrasion and 2 laser resurfacing procedures. Needless to say, the results were almost non-existant. Funny thing is I remember asking both docs about doing excision, and they said it wouldn't help.

It is very depressing to live with scars for this many years, so I would be willing to travel to achieve the same results you have.

Thanks,

Kevin

tazbulldog@gmail.com

quote name='mr. matt' date='Apr 14 2009, 08:33 PM' post='2590818']

Today marks Day 30 after my subcision and TCA Cross Method treatments.

I was really inspired by the photos that Tamara Madden and another Acne.org subscriber had posted on the web and wanted to see if subcision would work for me.

I've attached their websites below:

Here is a very brief overview of my journey with acne scar revision. I first developed cystic acne when I was in the eighth grade. By my senior year, I had several cysts on my right cheek which collapsed and left a rather large crater.

My cystic acne really flared up in college and it was then that I went to a dermatologist for the first time and was placed on antibiotics. My acne stayed under control with antibiotics and topical creams (Retin-A and Benzol Peroxide) for several years.

However, I kept getting cysts and decided to go on Acctuane. My skin EXPLODED with cystic acne lesions all over my face which left me with considerable scarring that I had not had before taking Accuntane. The good news, however, is that I never had another cystic lesion on my face after taking Accutane.

Over the years, I've tried Glycolic and Lactic Acid Peels, Cryotheraphy, etc. to help diminish my scars. After reading about subcision on this website, I decided to talk to my dermatologist about it. He agreed to do the procedure on me along with the TCA Cross Method on March 16, 2009.

Quite honestly, I am really glad that I had the procedure done. I took a week off of work and had some bruising and swelling, but no complications whatsoever.

I decided to take tons of pictures to help document the process and help others learn more about it.

post-50088-1239757181_thumb.jpg Right Cheek (Pre-Subcision)

post-50088-1239757361_thumb.jpg Right Cheek (30 Days Post-Subcision)

Some flattening of the rolling scars, but will need more subcision treatments.

post-50088-1239757482_thumb.jpg Left Cheek (Pre-Subcision)

post-50088-1239757566_thumb.jpg Left Cheek (30 Days Post-Subcision)

Dramatic improvement over the baseline photo.

Many of the "creases" and fine lines have disappeared in this photo.

post-50088-1239757827_thumb.jpg

This photo kind of scares me......Acne scarring combined with aging is not a pretty site.

post-50088-1239757897_thumb.jpg

The lighting is not quite the same, but the overall appearance of my scars has diminished.

The reflection of the "man in the mirror" has definitely changed for the better and for that I am truly grateful. I recently went to get my haircut by a friend in a city nearby whom I had not seen in six years and had always "cringed" when I saw myself in the mirror due to the harsh lighting in there. This time, I kept looking at myself and saying, "Is that really me?" The man in the mirror that I was now seeing wasn't the same one I had seen in the past. The man I was seeing had smoother and healthier looking skin.

As I mentioned above, I plan going for at least two more rounds of subcision followed by Pearl Laser in December of this year.

I am not aiming for perfection as I know that is not truly attainable. As my photos show, I have seen incremental improvement and I will take any improvement that I can possibly get.

I want to encourage ALL of you out there who have suffered from acne scars to do your research online, ask lots of questions, and find a competent and compassionate doctor who can help you.

I have just ordered an LED light and hope to have it before my next round of subcision in May.

Best wishes to you on YOUR journey to healing..... :surprised:

P.S. I have a blog on this website that will give you a good idea of what to expect if you decide that subcision is the right treatment for you.

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My physician was John DeSpain (columbiaderm.com).

He's an honest doctor and is sincerely concerned about the care of his patients. I can't say this for some of the other dermatologists I've gone to.

He's very conservative in his approach and won't do anything foolish in order to make a buck.

My entire family goes to see him for various skin-related ailments.

My overall complexion has greatly improved since I began this journey nine months ago. The improvement was incremental and took weeks/months to see visible results.

Subcision, by far, was the most effective in improving my complexion. In fact, my left check had the most dramatic improvement. :clap:

I had a Pearl Fractional Laser treatment in November and I'm beginning to see some signs of collagen remodeling.

Take "before" and "after" photos because the progress can be so incremental. Try to take photos with a flash and some without with some type of overhead lighting to truly capture the depth of your scarring.

Don't expect perfection because you may not attain that with any scar revision procedure. However, you should see some type of improvement.

My doctor prescribed Retin-A early in the process and it has helped my skin look so much better. Ninety percent of the fine lines on my face disappeared after six months using Retin-A and continuing with my "at home" 70% glycolic acid peels.

I also began using topical Vitamin C daily and apply it immediately after dermarolling.

Be sure to wear your sunscreen to protect your "investment".

Hope his helps.

Matt

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Matt TREMDOUS story. Congradulations. Im going for subscision followed by fraxel and maybe rolling after( they said it was ok to do in the same visit) My question was what is the led light you speak of and how do you use it. Thank you.

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