Man in the Mirror: Pre and Post Subcision Photos

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Hi Matt,

I'm going to try one more time with subcision and suction method. My doctor said that my scar is tethered. Go figure. When I stretch my skin out I still see the scar, I believe that means it is tethered? I purchased http://shop.owndoc.com/product-info.php?suction-pump-scars-pid212.html suction pump. I just hope it is strong enough to be effective or it's all for nothing. I looked up your vacumn cleaner hand-held Oreck vacuum sweeper but I can't find it or the ones that are available look big and bulky and over 200 bucks. I have a hoover vacumn cleaner but it is old and dirty and even if I sterilize it I have my doubts using it. I know you're not a doctor and plus you probably haven't purchased the one from owndoc but have you any advice on this. So far my scar is still indented but it has only been 3 weeks since I got my first subcision treatment done
Thanks,

Catherine

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Catherine: I think that some type of auctioning device is better than none. I've found that the subcision/suction method in conjunction with dermarolling and topical vitamin C to be a very powerful combination. Keep us posted on your progress. Matt

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Catherine: I think that some type of auctioning device is better than none. I've found that the subcision/suction method in conjunction with dermarolling and topical vitamin C to be a very powerful combination. Keep us posted on your progress. Matt

Thanks so much! I appreciate your advice. I will let you know how it goes.

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Matt,

I am going to be getting subcision done on my cheeks in a few weeks. I have not been able to read every post in your thread but I noticed that you said that icing after your 2nd subcision resulted in a lot less bruising than the first subcision. I also read that you had great success with suctioning in your later subcisions. My question is did you also ice in between your suctions? I ask because I am considering suctioning after my procedure and am not sure if using ice should be done along with that as is isnt the point of the suction to kind of keep the inflammation and swelling alive longer for better results? Thanks in advance.

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It's been awhile since my last subcision treatment, but I believe that I did not use ice for the first two weeks.

The suctioning resulted in prolonged bruising and inflammation which was probably the result of suctionning my face with so much force.

The end result was worth all of it though because it was, by far, my most successful subcision treatment.

I also used a topical cream from Reviva Labs containing Ester C, DMAE, and Alpha Lipoic Acid along with my Retin-A and topical Vitamin E oil. I still use all of these on my face on a regular basis.

Keep us posted how things go for you - we're all in this together.

Matt

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Its obvious ,when you cause trauma in deeper derma layers ,results will be by far the best.

That applies to subcision,suction ,even lugol's iodine

All of the above cause dermal microtrauma-trauma

No TCA or fraxel or derma roller will do anything unless your aim is to resurface the walls of the scars

Its just common logic and everyone experienced should know that

By the way i could never understand the principle of the scar being tethered to fibrous tissues!?!?

Scars are just an unorganized mass of collagen consisting of fibroblasts mostly

Attacking the fibroblasts and make the body think to heal without fibrotic tissue again is the key

Edited by panos

If you're bored of Suburbia, burn down your house,lets dance in the colour of the fire.


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I used a hand-held Oreck vacuum sweeper. I cupped my left hand around the end of the nozzle to reduce the amount of suction because it was so powerful.

I did several passes on my face twice a day beginning on day three and did this for about two weeks.

I highly recommend this approach and you should read the study if you haven't done so already.

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That is amazing progress. I'm really happy for you man.

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Thanks. It's been a four year journey that continues to this day.

There are some great people on this site who have encouraged me along the way.

One of the important things that my dermatologist taught me about the skin was the importance of antioxidants in protecting and aiding in the healing of the skin as well as the importance of topicals and a good diet.

Based upon his information, I set out on 'quest' to learn more about how the skin works and how our diet and exercise affect our skin.

Along the way, I read a book that I would like to recommend to people who follow this thread. For me, it has been one of THE most informative books I've read on how to care for you skin from the inside/out.

The book is entitled "Your Skin, Younger' and was written by three doctors. I've checked it out for the second time from my local library.

It contains a wealth of information about topicals, supplements, and the research behind them. It's an outstanding book that I would recommend to anyone with acne scarring.

Two of the antioxidants that I use are Alpha Lipoic Acid and Tumeric. I use a topical form of Alpha Lipoic Acid on my face (Reviva Labs). I buy my Tumeric capsules from Wal-Mart. They have the lowest price that I have found.

I've eliminated virtually all processed foods (to the greatest extent that this is possible in the U.S.), stopped drinking soda, and mainly drink tea or water.

I believe changing my diet and incorporating supplements and the right type of topicals has greated aided in the reduction of the appearance of my acne scarring. Take a look at my baseline photos - they show the poor texture my skin had along with lines and acne scars on both cheeks and my chin.

If there is one thing that I've learned about acne scar reduction is this: it takes time and multiple modalities to see improvement. You have to be consistent. For example, I dermaroll every six weeks. I do one to two 25% TCA peels a year, I wear Retin-A every other day, I use a topical cream on my face daily, and I wear sunscreen seven days a week.

Keep up the good fight, my friends. We're all in this together.

Matt

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I'm an advocate of that book too, Matt. Amazingly informative and easy to understand from my layman perspective.

Some quick wins people can make in their diets is encorporating tea and smoothies. My tea cupboard now consists of Rooibos, Green, Fennel, Nettle, Ginger and a couple of other antioxidant rich teas. I tend to have 2-3 cups per day, rotating through them in turn (variety is the spice of life, right?).

As for smoothies, I picked up a $100 blender and each morning make a pint-sized smoothie. In one pint you can fit (for example) three carrots, handful of blueberries, handful of kale (bizarrely kale is flavourless when blended), one banana, 2-3 florets of broccoli and half a pint of milk (or water). Amazing in terms of time/effort versus reward. Plus, they taste awesome.

Edited by crystalized
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Matt,

I am considering buying the Reviva Labs Alpha Lipoic Acid Vitamin C Ester and DMAE Cream that you recommended.

1. I still apply BP during the day and Tazorac at night. if i get this product I would have to apply it during the day. Is this moisturizing enough to be a stand alone moisturizer or do you think I would have to apply this in addition to my regular moisturizer after applying BP?

2. Do you use it every single day?

I got subcision done about a week away and I will be getting more treatments in the future. I am also considering dermarolling as you discussed so I want to get the best possible results. Thanks in advance.

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I do use this product everyday and typically apply it in the morning and sometimes at night, too.

I'm not sure how the BP might interact with this product.

I'm glad to hear that you had your first round of subcision. Hopefully, you'll see some improvement over time..

Dermarolling in conjunction with the subcision and the topicals should also help with the collagen remodeling process.

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Matt have you used Copper peptides? I have read that some people reported bad side effects but, most were using it to just treat wrinkles without having any type of procedure done. GHK-CU (copper peptides) are better used after procedures because they dramitically help with wound healing, stimulation of collagen, etc. I am thinking that using after subcision, dermarolling, and/or needling may help.

A 2% GHK gel showed promising results in treatment of 120 diabetic patients, increasing the percentage of ulcer closure from 60.8% to 98.5%, and decreasing the percentage of infection from 34% to 7%.

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I used copper peptides once, but didn't use them again after that.

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Not really any particular reason.

I may revisit using them down the road.

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Yea your face seems like you never had them before...I have to ask, I hav some tiny things on my cheek that look like ice picks..does this procedure work on them?

Yea your face seems like you never had them before...I have to ask, I hav some tiny things on my cheek that look like ice picks..does this procedure work on them?

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If you have ice pick or scarred pores, subcision won't do anything for them.

Subcision works well for rolling scars as the Nokor needle undermines the tethered fibrous scar tissue that holds the epidermis down.

My doctor peformed TCA CROSS (cross= chemical reconstruction of scarred skin) on several scarred pores/ice pick scars that I had on my chin and nose. I know that some people perform TCA CROSS on their faces themselves, but I don't recommend that you do this.

I think it's best performed by a dermatologist or plastic surgeon who knows what they are doing. Why mess up your skin anymore than it already is and take the chance of damaging your complexion?

Yes, I have seen quite a bit of improvement, but it was a journey that took several years and didn't occur overnight. My skin is not perfect today; I have a couple of scars that evaded the Nokor needle completely and have some minor scarring on the left side of my chin, but I am content with how my face looks today. Overall, I believe that my improvement was in the 70-80% range and I can live with that.

Life is good. :)

Edited by mr. matt

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Well I did start suctioning my re-depressing scar after my subcision but I think I did it a little too late. If the swelling is basically non-existant do you think suction would even still help? Or should I just wait it out now? My other deep scar is still raised with a knot under it so thats a good sign, i decided not to touch that one.

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If you're within five days of your subcision treatment, I would go ahead with suctioning your face and do it for the length of time done in the study.

My most dramatic results came from combining subcision with suctioning.

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Hey Matt, Just wanted to check up and see how things are going with you. I wanted to thank you again for providing me with so much information. If it wasnt for this thread I would have never found the doctor youve been seeing. I believe youve got alot of good coming to you for how youve helped so many people and even had the courage to approach a doctor with the case study on subcision and agree to embark on this quest. Thanks man, seriously. I mean that. On a further note I thought ide ask you about the tca cross that youve had. We all dont hear much about that. Ive heard mostly about the subcision. What was the downtime, aftercare, and results after the TCA cross?, Thanks -Adam

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Adam:

Great to hear from you.

I'm doing well. I'm continuing to take my supplements and will do dermarolling tonight.

I saw my mother-in-law for the first time since Christmas and the first thing she said was, 'You keep getting younger and younger looking each time I see you." Collagen development can do amazing things for your complexion/appearance.

I had TCA CROSS done about four years ago. It was not painful and my skin actually healed up in about three days. My nose and chin had a number of scarred pores and they responded well.

Just a friendly reminder to everyone to wear their sunscreen - UVA/UVB rays can damage your skin's DNA and collagen.

Matt

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Hey guys, I have had a pretty nasty acne since age 14 (the worst - cystic acne) and now it seems I managed to reduce it to one or two pimples (no milk, no cow products, no sugar or spicy foods) :(. I am 22 now I got a few nasty scars and dont know how to get rid of them. I didn`t read all your thread but I want some expert advice from you !

In my country - romania - we don`t have lots of options for acne scar treatments and the one that are available are very expensive, but I want to try one of these :

1. Microdermabrasion with cristals

2. Microdermabrasion with diamonds

They say it would help a lot, the one with diamonds seems to be better. What do you guys think ? should I give money for something like that ? and also, is there any cream that I should search for ? or maybe some natural stuff that I can eat ? however the scars are pretty old , 7 years old and i don`t know if anything internally would change them. Please respond with your info ! I really need it.

I aprecciate a lot, Alex

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