mr. matt

Man in the Mirror: Pre and Post Subcision Photos

416 posts in this topic

I only noticed popping sounds on one spot. I think he did a good job, but will have to wait to know what the results are. He also let my mom watch. She's a nurse and she will probably be helping me to do some more in the near future. I'll keep you posted...

Thanks, surprised.gif

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mr matt i want to do tca peel to improve my texture. can i use cotton ball to apply the tca ? i did three subcisions with dr despain and alot of my scars i cant see them no more. how did you do your tca peel ? thank you

Hello. I heard you went to see Dr. Despain for subcision in Co, Missouri. I had a couple questions. I was worried about the subcision procedure. Is subcision really that big of a deal? Like is it traumatic to the skin? I wonder if my fears are irrational. What size needles did he use? How many scars did you have? How was the improvement? Cost? Location of scars? I am planning on seeing him shortly. If you could answer these questions for me It was make me a very happy camper. Thank you very much.

mr matt i want to do tca peel to improve my texture. can i use cotton ball to apply the tca ? i did three subcisions with dr despain and alot of my scars i cant see them no more. how did you do your tca peel ? thank you

Hello. I heard you went to see Dr. Despain for subcision in Co, Missouri. I had a couple questions. I was worried about the subcision procedure. Is subcision really that big of a deal? Like is it traumatic to the skin? I wonder if my fears are irrational. What size needles did he use? How many scars did you have? How was the improvement? Cost? Location of scars? I am planning on seeing him shortly. If you could answer these questions for me It was make me a very happy camper. Thank you very much.

i didnt feel pain with three subcisions that i had. i had scars that looked like mr matt's all over cheeks and temples and the cost was 400 each. i would say 70 percent improvement and some of the scars i cant see them. i also did dermastamp at home. the doctor used 18 gauge nokor needle. i wish i would have done the subcisions much earlier. good luck

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Matt:

I'm wondering how deep you go with the dermarolling? Do you go deep enough to cause bleeding? What is your downtime like?

Thanks, Joey rolleyes.gif

Edited by houtexjoe

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Joey:

I bought a 2.0 cm dermarolling device last year and use this every six weeks. After each session. I apply Retin A and then do a 70 percent glycolic acid peel.

My skin has toughened up quite a bit and I rarely bleed during a rolling session.

Because I combine the acid peel with a rolling session, My skin looks irritated for about three days.

I can't say enough good things about collagen induction therapy (dermarolling). For me, it's been more effective than any of the laser treatments I've had.

Hope this helps.

Matt

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Hey there Matt

First of all I would like to comment on your skin ..It really looks great..Congrats Man..This is the only thread that inspires me. And the reason why I signed up here.I am sorry for not introducing myself.

However I just wanted to ask a few questions and hopefully you might answer them up for me.And this post may be helpful for some who had or are seeking subcision.I am sorry they are a lot of questions.Thank you

1) I just had subcision technique done on me by a derm.I was astonished to see the scars dissappearing instantly owing ofcourse to the microswelling.The scars then reappeared.So my question is you had 3-4 subcision sessions right?Out which you performed suctioning on one of the session and for that session scar did not reappear right? So the question is what about the previous scars.the ones you didn’t suctioned.When they reappeared after swelling went down what did you do to get rid of them? Did they fill up on their own? How much time did it take to fill up?

2) The reason why I asked about the non suctioned scars is that I see a lot of posts that say “scar reappeared after swelling and so I guess subcision failed” so I needed my self and others to understand what is right and what is wrong..

3) If you read the article “Subcision-suction method”..The mainly used diabetic lancets and 23 Gauge needles..They reserved Nokor needles 18guage for severe fibrotic scars.The article says inserting 23 G needle better for superficial undermining?So did your doctor used Nokor needle for small less fibrotic scar as well?And did he pinched your skin before inserting the needle into the scar?

I am sorry for asking a Lot of questions on my first post.

You are doing a great Job here bro.i have seen a lot of people who when they get there skin corrected don't even bother coming back to post ..Not because they don't want others to improve but they don't want to look back @ the dark past they left behind...But bro you are an exception and you are doing a great job, worthy of applause.

Have a Good day Matt

P.S

Btw the article with pics for those who haven't seen it..Its a complete .And not the one you usually download as pdf

Subcision-suction method

http://www.scribd.co...7/Acne-Scarring

Edited by scarfaces

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1). Yes, I had four subcision treatments and I suctioned my face after the fourth treatment that I had. The scars on my left cheek that were treated did not re-appear. They were still rather large and may have been missed by my doctor during the previous procedures. The scars on my right cheek did improve, but not to the degree that the scars on my left cheek improved.

2). My previous experience with subcision treatments was that it would take weeks or months for the cratered areas to fill and they would fill up by varying degrees. I never expected perfection, but I was definitely pleased with the reduction in the severity of my scarring.

3). Honestly, I don't know what size of Nokor needle that he used on my face. I had a large compound scar on my right cheek that made it appear that my cheek had partially collapsed into my face. It looked hideous under direct lighting. When my doctor treated this area the first time, he said that the needle was 'bowing' from the tension caused from the thick fibrous bands. At one point, he stated that hews concerned that the needle would break under my skin - that would have been disastrous. So, I a glad that he used the gauge of needle necessary for my type of scarring.

I can't say enough good things about this site and the people who offered me encouragement along the way. I'm glad that this thread has inspired you. I hope that more people will document their experiences so that others can learn and benefit from what they learned.

Matt

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Thank you so much for your reply...It really was helpful.your self-explainatory answers urges me to ask more...:(..I hope you don't mind bro...

1)do you think i should wait, seeing that your non-suctioned scars filled in with time after redepression, so mine will too?

2)Or should i opt for going another round of subcision on the same scars....? Its about two weeks since my last subcision.

3)You said that the filling of scars may take weeks to months...so my question is when was the time after your first subcision that you noticed massive improvement ....meaning by looking in the mirror and saying that it has INDEED improved?

4)so using suctioning weren't the results instant and permanent than those without suctioning...?

5)what are your aftercare of wound to promote efficient healing? meaning you might be well aware of the established fact that it is the moist surroundings around or of the wounds the promote efficient healing....dry wounds heal poor...(it is a Myth that dry scabbing wounds heal Better)...

so what should i do to keep the area Moist...? i am apply vaseline a.k.a petroleum jelly on the wound because it traps moisture of the skin especially of the wound....but is there anyother alternative?

6)do you use supplements like vitamins???

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1)do you think i should wait, seeing that your non-suctioned scars filled in with time after redepression, so mine will too?

I had the most success combining subcision with suctioning - it yielded the most dramatic and quickest results of any of my previous treatments. Combining suction with subcision is a personal decision and only you can decide if you think that this is the best option for you. If the tethered bands were broken, you should see some type of improvement over time.

2)Or should i opt for going another round of subcision on the same scars....? Its about two weeks since my last subcision

It may take multiple rounds of subcision on the same scars to yield the results that you are seeking.

3) 3)You said that the filling of scars may take weeks to months...so my question is when was the time after your first subcision that you noticed massive improvement ....meaning by looking in the mirror and saying that it has INDEED improved?

If you look at the baseline photos I took and the photos I took about a month after my first subcision treatment, you'll see some fairly dramatic results. I had several deep pock marks on my left cheek that were very noticeable pre-subcision and less noticeable after subcision. My right cheek also showed progress about six weeks or so after the first procedure.

4)so using suctioning weren't the results instant and permanent than those without suctioning.

Yes, the results with the suctioning were as instantaneous as they could be. I was fully expecting the pock marks to re-appear and then gradually fill in over weeks and months. However, the craters never reappeared. I saw my doctor in August and he was elated. He was all smiles and wanted to know if I had been using any types of serums on my skin.

5) do you use supplements like vitamins?

Yes, I take a multivitamin everyday, use Retin-A 0.1%, and apply Vitamin E oil to my skin daily. I also use a product from Reviva Labs which contains Ester C, DMAE, and Alpha Lipoic Acid. I can't say enough good things about this cream - it's inexpensive, it moisturizes, contains antioxidants, and tightens your skin. It's an amazing product at a relatively low cost.

Matt

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hey matt....

where do you get the vitamin e oil from?

is it ok if i extract the oil from the vitamin e capsule and apply it to my face?

Plus i noticed in your before and after pic....that the skin in the after photos looks quite young and supple...and well moisturized..

so what do you think i should do to moisturize my skin???

i cannot get that product in my country...:(...unfortunately...

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I purchase my Vitamin E oil from a store called Trader Joe's. If you live outside of the United States, I don't believe you'll have one of these stores in your country.

You may be able to find it at a health food store or online.

I've read that Vitamin E oil is a natural moisturizer and is full of antioxidants.

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Thanks for the inspiration Mr. Matt

I've been through so many different lasers and doctors just telling me things to get money from me that I almost gave up on trying to find something but I always kept ending up back here and even though I was still skeptical about trying something else I got 2 test spots done with subcision and suction.

At first I wasn't too excited about doing test spots because after 15 years of dealing with cystic acne and rolling acne scars of course I wanted to get it all done as soon as possible. But after I thought about it, it made me realize my Dr. actually cares about what will work and not just the money. I had the spots done a little over 2 and a half weeks ago, got a check up the following week and I go back mid-january to see if the subcision will be effective enough to do on the rest of my scars. He actually let me choose any 3 scars I wanted and after I chose he suggested I change one because another one was deeper and caused the area to look worse. So far the deepest one seems to be coming back a little, the other 2 are pretty much gone still, which I'm excited about but learned not to get my hopes up about.

I'm really hoping I can get even some of the results that you have gotten, I honestly lived my life regardless for the first 13 years of having this problem, pretty much not caring at all, doing whatever I wanted to do not caring about what people though, but the past 2 years have completely flipped on me and my scars make me stay home and miss out on things I would love to be doing with my friends. Which is really weird considering the things I used to do not even thinking twice about my face. But one day I woke up and it's like I started losing my confidence, hearing the whispers, and noticing the people staring and judging me more and more which turned me into a completely different person and its exhausting dealing with that everyday.

I really hope it works out so I can be myself again and not hide at home anymore.

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Thanks for the inspiration Mr. Matt

I've been through so many different lasers and doctors just telling me things to get money from me that I almost gave up on trying to find something but I always kept ending up back here and even though I was still skeptical about trying something else I got 2 test spots done with subcision and suction.

At first I wasn't too excited about doing test spots because after 15 years of dealing with cystic acne and rolling acne scars of course I wanted to get it all done as soon as possible. But after I thought about it, it made me realize my Dr. actually cares about what will work and not just the money. I had the spots done a little over 2 and a half weeks ago, got a check up the following week and I go back mid-january to see if the subcision will be effective enough to do on the rest of my scars. He actually let me choose any 3 scars I wanted and after I chose he suggested I change one because another one was deeper and caused the area to look worse. So far the deepest one seems to be coming back a little, the other 2 are pretty much gone still, which I'm excited about but learned not to get my hopes up about.

I'm really hoping I can get even some of the results that you have gotten, I honestly lived my life regardless for the first 13 years of having this problem, pretty much not caring at all, doing whatever I wanted to do not caring about what people though, but the past 2 years have completely flipped on me and my scars make me stay home and miss out on things I would love to be doing with my friends. Which is really weird considering the things I used to do not even thinking twice about my face. But one day I woke up and it's like I started losing my confidence, hearing the whispers, and noticing the people staring and judging me more and more which turned me into a completely different person and its exhausting dealing with that everyday.

I really hope it works out so I can be myself again and not hide at home anymore.

Thanks for your post.

I am so glad that you took the leap and got some of your scars subcised and suctioned. I think that if you are realistic about the types of results you are seeking, you'll be satisfied with further subcision treatments coupled with the suctioning process.

Don't expect to have a complexion like Mario Lopez's if you're a male or Jennifer Lopez if you're a female, because a flawless complexion is probably unattainable.

I hope that you'll try dermarolling in conjunction with your other treatments. My skin looks so much different than it did about four years ago when I started this process.

Here is one of the key lessons that I learned during this process: improvement is i-n-c-r-e-m-e-n-t-a-l. That is to say, it takes time for the collagen to remodel itself and develop. I found that the suctioning process certainly helped to prevent the tethered bands from reattaching.

Don't let your complexion keep you hiding in your home. Knowing that there are ways to improve your complexion and reduce your scaring should greatly boost your confidence level and give you a lot of hope that things can improve for you.

Look into a face cream with Ester C and other antioxidants and anything that has been medically proven to develop collagen.

Once you are satisfied with how your complexion looks, you'll look back and see this current time as a distant memory.

I hope that you'll take some photos and journal along the way. When I look back at my baseline photos, I ask myself, 'Was that really ME?' because my skin has improved so much over the past four years or so. I'm glad that I took photos and chronicled my journey.

There is hope for you!

Matt

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congratulations...

just 2 things:

1)what size of needles did they use and how many holes did you see around the scar ...i mean how many entry points they used to

undermine the fibrotic tissue?

2)do you believe that your age helped you since the growth factors of persons at about your age tend to help to heal better.

Edited by panos

If you're bored of Suburbia, burn down your house,lets dance in the colour of the fire.


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Guys I apologize as Im almost positive this issue has been covered numerous times, but what exactly are you suctioning with?

Im currently in Bangkok and should take advantage of the prices of subsicion while im here, but I would really like to know how to suction. Ive never heard of this before. Thanks so much Matt for sharing this information!

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congratulations... just 2 things: 1)what size of needles did they use and how many holes did you see around the scar ...i mean how many entry points they used to undermine the fibrotic tissue? I don't remember. I believe that someone else who followed this post and was treated by my dermatologist asked him and posted the information on this thread somewhere. I don't have an exact number regarding the entry points that Dr. DeSpain made into the scarred areas, but I do know that there were several and he aggressively went after the tethered bands from a variety of angles which is necessary in order to undermine them. 2)do you believe that your age helped you since the growth factors of persons at about your age tend to help to heal better.
Honestly, I don't know. I believe that several of the things that I did helped to promote collagen deposition: 1). Retin-A topically each night. 2). Topical Ester C, DMAE, and Alpha-Lipoic Acid. 3). Topical Vitamin E oil 4) needling sessions every six weeks or so (I still do them) 5). Chemical peels: 70 percent alpha hydroxy and lactic acid peels plus 25 percent TCA peels 6). Multi-vitamin daily plus zinc supplements 7) Daily facial scrub 8) Vitamin C facial wash 9) Exercise twice a week or more - helps with capillary development which delivers the vitamins and supplements to your sub dermis 10). Wear sunscreen everyday (SPF 30 or higher with both UVA and UVB protection) 11) I was using red and ultraviolet light on my face for awhile as well Hope this helps. Matt As you can see, I took a very aggressive approach to dealing with my scarring.

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Hi Matt,

i am quite new on this forum (i registered on this site two weeks ago after my first airgent treatment),

and like everybody else, i am deeply impressed by your subcision results. Your skin looks

absolutely great. Thank you for sharing your journey and providing all this information to the rest of us.

I have a few questions i would rather ask you via a private message, but your inbox

seems to be full. Can we find a way to get in contact? You could PM me an email address for example.

I really would appreciate that, it would mean a lot to me.

Cheers GuyGermany

Edited by GuyGermany

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i think the reason why subcision results arent perfect is beacause the doctors

arent paying enough attention at the fibroblasts that exist at the edges of the scar...

am i the only one that see that the edges block off the regenaration?

for exampe if you manage to break the fibrotic tissue at one point of the edge you can see that the skin

begins to heal and creates a line that reaches the other edge...

i just did self subcision at one depressed sun spot with a thin diabetic lancet ..

i insert the needle in a way just to break all the fibrotic tissues that exist only at the edge...


If you're bored of Suburbia, burn down your house,lets dance in the colour of the fire.


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Hi Matt,

I just got subcision done 5 days ago on a surgical scar and I'm already seeing the scar coming back as the swelling is gone down. I realize a surgical scar is different than an acne scar but my dermaotlogist told me that subcision can help greatly with the scar. I'm getting married in 6 months and am concerned about the depression or indentation on my face as it is very noticeable.

I'm scheduled to get a subcision in another 4 weeks and wanted to try the suction method for it. I'm still very unclear as what to use for it and how it will work. You had stated you used a Oreck hand-held vacuum sweeper. Is this a regular vacumn cleaner? If so how do you perform the suction method? I guess I'm worried about putting a regular vacumn cleaner on my face but if it helps I'll do anything to get rid of the indentation. Do you just put it on your scar? I purchased a suction device from owndoc.com. Do you think this might be suffice? I'm also possibly thinking if this doesn't work I might even travel to see your doctor as he seems really good. I live in San Francisco.

Thanks

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Congratulations on your upcoming wedding! That is awesome. You are the first person that I've heard of who has had subcision for a surgical scar. The purpose of the suction method is to prevent the tethered bands from reattaching to the epidermis during the healing process post-subcision. If your scar(s) are not tethered, I don't think that the subcision/suction method will work for you. But, I am not a doctor either. I did use a hand-held Oreck vacuum sweeper on my scars. I used one hand to buffer the vacuuming power because the suction power was so powerful. I vacuumed both of my cheeks twice a day two days after my subcision treatment. The results were amazing for me. But, I did have prolonged bruising and swelling as a result. The pain was worth the gain. If you have tethered scars, subcision coupled with with suction is a very powerful combination. You'll need suction power that is strong enough to lift your epidermis and separate it from the underlying dermis or it is all for naught.

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Hi Matt,

Thanks so much for that info! Yeah I wasn't sure if subcision would help with surgical scars myself. I didn't even go to the dermatologist to ask for subcision but I went because I had a concern about ruining my skin with a tca peel. I did a 15% tca peel on my scar. I didn't prepare my skin with retin a or anything. I ended up doing it 3 times on the scar. It frosted up and went pure white. After a week I was worried so I went to the dermatologist and she told me to come back in a month. I went back a month later and it was still really red still and almost more indented. She suggested subcision. I agreed to it because I do want to look the best I can on my wedding. The surgical scar is on my cheek and was due to a mole removal I got years ago for cosmetic purposes and it made it way worse than the scar but who knew. I even had a mole removed from a less visible place as a test and that scar was barely noticeable. Go figure. I was so upset that I made the worse mistake of my life that was self. Anyway it's been a long road of me struggling trying to make the scar better and I have found your story inspirational when I read it. The scar on my face really impacts my life on an everyday basis. Anyway I'm hopeful that this will help but not convinced since it is a surgical scar. I will keep you posted. I'm so happy for you that you had a positive outcome. It gives other people hope.

Thanks,
Catherine.

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Hi Matt,

Where did you get your red and ultraviolet light from? Was it expensive?

I purchased it from the LED Man.

http://theledman.net/

I spent about approximately $125.00 for the unit.

I'm not convinced that it did a whole lot for me,though.

I believe that it does help with inflammation and speeding up the healing process after an injury. So, I used it mainly after my laser treatment and subcision treatments.

Hope this helps.

Matt

Hi Matt,

Thanks so much for that info! Yeah I wasn't sure if subcision would help with surgical scars myself. I didn't even go to the dermatologist to ask for subcision but I went because I had a concern about ruining my skin with a tca peel. I did a 15% tca peel on my scar. I didn't prepare my skin with retin a or anything. I ended up doing it 3 times on the scar. It frosted up and went pure white. After a week I was worried so I went to the dermatologist and she told me to come back in a month. I went back a month later and it was still really red still and almost more indented. She suggested subcision. I agreed to it because I do want to look the best I can on my wedding. The surgical scar is on my cheek and was due to a mole removal I got years ago for cosmetic purposes and it made it way worse than the scar but who knew. I even had a mole removed from a less visible place as a test and that scar was barely noticeable. Go figure. I was so upset that I made the worse mistake of my life that was self. Anyway it's been a long road of me struggling trying to make the scar better and I have found your story inspirational when I read it. The scar on my face really impacts my life on an everyday basis. Anyway I'm hopeful that this will help but not convinced since it is a surgical scar. I will keep you posted. I'm so happy for you that you had a positive outcome. It gives other people hope.

Thanks,

Catherine.

Catherine:

I'm not a doctor, but it would seem to me that you might get better results using a dermaroller to induce collagen regeneration.

http://journals.lww.com/plasreconsurg/Abstract/2008/04000/Percutaneous_Collagen_Induction_Therapy__An.46.aspx

However, I am not a doctor and perhaps your doctor knows best in this particular situation. Waving a need under your skin as is done with subcision does result in subdermal injury - bleeding will result in collagen formation, so perhaps that is your doctor's logic for performing it.

Please keep us posted on how things progress; we're all here to learn from one another.

Matt

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