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Dermarolling Support Thread

needling

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#141 taghiyawat

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 04:51 AM

I had 4 sessions by now. The 4th was two weeks ago. I'd say the result is negligible - not noticeable. But I'm not giving up. I'll get more sessions when i get back to the philippines. I'm also going to buy a dermaroller online and do it myself. I'm not giving up!

#142 brokeninside

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 05:43 AM

Good luck with your treatment, i hope it works for you.

They did say to me that one lady had 6 treatments and her scarring is almost gone.
I do need TCA cross aswell, so that may help more.

I'm certainly not giving up, I do think my expectations may be a bit high.
Hopefully, i can get my pictures from last year and post them with current ones and let everyone have look and see what they think.



#143 deleo

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Posted 24 April 2010 - 12:37 PM

QUOTE (cheerfulgal @ Feb 4 2010, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i really wonder why there is NO recommedation of needling/dermaroller to treat acne scars in many official international medical sites..?

i know some said it may be due to the fact that the dermatologists dont have the technology to sell to patients but some research said it hasnt had enought scientific evidence to prove it.. here in hongkong there are SO many comanpies claims that it works because they just wanna sell the dermrollers, which i think is cruel to people who are suffering from acne scar, the pain that others cant taste.. so can someone offer me other answers? please?I am SO eager to know

PS I am so excited to find this site recently where i can find people who can understand the situation im going through eusa_drool.gif (especially last summer i was seriously depressed because of my face as i was going to be a freshman in the coming year WHICH CAUSED ME TO HAVE SERIOUS BREAKOUT, SO GUYS PLEASE DANT BE DEPRESSED AT ANYTIME CUASE IT CAN CASUE SERIOUS CONSEQUENCES ) AND i would like to thank all who give informative replies which really help! really appreciate! THANK YOU! eusa_clap.gif biggrin.gif



I have moderate rolling scars on both cheeks. I have done two fraxels at high intensities (probably should do a couple more), some chemical peels etc. I tried dermarolling about 3 months ago - I did it at home with a 1.5mm roller, two times, one month apart. In between I put a lot of vitamin cream on my face at night (vitamins A, C, and E). I bought the roller from a company in Norway for about $45. They sent me everything I needed. I did use some cold packs to numb beforehand. Numbing your skin will make it go better. My skin did bleed, and I was nervous as hell doing it. I was red for two days after, so don't plan on social stuff for a couple of days.

Out of all of the treatments that I have done, I have to say that dermarolling is great. Your dermo won't know a thing about it, because they don't make $ off of it. It really has the same effect as a fraxel to me. The goal is to wound the skin underneath the top layer and let it produce collagen as it heals. The collagen pushes up and smooths out the scarred areas on your face. Forget chemical peels and things that strip off the top layer of your skin. You need to get underneath the top layer to smooth out your scars. Dermarolling is great for this. I have not seen my face look this smooth since I was probably 15 (in my mid-thirties now). It takes a few months to really see your skin smooth out. I would definitely suggest doing deramarolling and vitamin cream. It's a great combo. I wouldn't mind paying someone to do it, just because I am not crazy about doing it myself. I am wondering at this rate if I should even do another one. My moderate scarring is probably 60 to 70% better from dermarolling (the two deep fraxels I did a year ago have helped too).









#144 brokeninside

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Posted 27 April 2010 - 04:07 AM

Hello Deleo,
Congrats on your success. Just wondering what vitamin cream do you use?
i have been searching for a vit c cream and just cant find a decent one.

let me know,
Thanks

#145 Lillya

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Posted 27 April 2010 - 10:24 PM

I personally like the Vitamin C powder by Philosophy - you just mix a small amount in with your moisturizer. It is nice because the powder isn't as unstable as most of the liquid forms of Vitamin C.

#146 brokeninside

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 08:16 AM

I actually have that powder but havent used it regularly, are you currently having dermaroller treatment?

#147 Lillya

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 11:07 PM

Yep - I use the stamp version myself once every few months (but I haven't been consistent lately...). I like to user copper peptides for the first 2 days after the dermarolling session and then Vitamin C every other day. I have been using the powder for years now and am really happy with it. With that being said, I haven't tried many other options so I don't have much to compare to.

#148 pepo

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 08:35 PM

i appologise if this has been answered before, but how much bleeding are you supposed to see?

ive heard some people say they dont bleed at all, some say littles specks, others say they get a lot of blood.

i rolled with 2mm last night and i got a few small specks of blood, not a lot at all. i pushed down very hard.

should i be seeing more blood than this? im pushing very hard so i dont see how i could produce more blood.

#149 Lillya

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 12:28 AM

I personally believe that not everyone bleeds in response to dermarolling. I don't bleed much and I push pretty much as hard as I can.

#150 pepo

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Posted 04 May 2010 - 06:47 AM

QUOTE (Lillya @ May 2 2010, 06:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I personally believe that not everyone bleeds in response to dermarolling. I don't bleed much and I push pretty much as hard as I can.


thanks for the reply lillya. i rolled again last night to see if i could get some blood. i pushed down so hard i almost broke the roller. i did manage to get a lot more blood but still it didnt seem like a whole lot. it was extremely painful and a huge amount of pressure was applied.

im thinking this is because of the area im treating. im treating stretch marks on my shoulder at the moment. the skin there is tougher than on the face and when you apply pressure you just end up pushing the skin/fat/muscle downwards so you dont really get anywhere. because of this it is taking extreme force to get any blood out.

#151 brokeninside

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Posted 05 May 2010 - 07:18 AM

Dont push down too hard. I have dermaroller done by Dr chu, he doesnt push down really hard, i do bleed but as soon as i'm iced and cleaned, im just red.

Please be careful.
Thanks for all the advice, good luck everyone!

#152 scarr

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 08:29 AM

QUOTE (taghiyawat @ Apr 20 2010, 02:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I read somewhere that fish oils (0mega3) should be avoided before an operation/cosmetic procedures as it an anti-coagulant or makes you bleed a lot and hard to scab or heal.


I actually think this might be correct, be aware people do a bit of research.


#153 msh1925

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Posted 13 May 2010 - 08:29 PM

is derma-roller.com & dr roller same company?

#154 ABRB

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Posted 15 May 2010 - 09:03 AM

Hi

Had my first dermaroller session yesterday surprised.gif


Anyone here who recommends the "Home Care Dermaroller" ?

Is it useful to use it after a medical dermaroller session ?

#155 Bellerophon

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Posted 18 May 2010 - 10:07 AM

I want to treat 1 boxcar, not very deep, and some hyperpegmentation.

Should I take 0,25 or 0,5 mm?

Thanks

#156 claisen

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 05:14 AM

QUOTE (cheerfulgal @ Feb 4 2010, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i really wonder why there is NO recommedation of needling/dermaroller to treat acne scars in many official international medical sites..?

i know some said it may be due to the fact that the dermatologists dont have the technology to sell to patients but some research said it hasnt had enought scientific evidence to prove it.. here in hongkong there are SO many comanpies claims that it works because they just wanna sell the dermrollers, which i think is cruel to people who are suffering from acne scar, the pain that others cant taste.. so can someone offer me other answers? please?I am SO eager to know


The reason that majority of medical doctors do not recommend it is because it is not a very effective method, especially for deeper scars. Many doctors believe that you can achieve better results with other modality (and combination of) than needling if you put in the same type of dedication and time into improving your scars. I can find 100 times testimonial articles, medical advises, including with my experience, to tell you that there are much better alternatives out there. I've asked many doctors who have used needling or have studied it thoroughly. To argue that they do not make any money from needling is retarded because they are charging almost $2000 USD for a package of 5 sessions here in Asia while Fraxels Erbiums are going for $150 each and Fraxel CO2 are going for $300 each here.

I believe that if the cost of Fraxels in US and Europe come down to $100 (Erbium) and $300 (Co2) per session here, needling would no longer become poor man's DIY to scar improvement. I think no matter how many professional advises or experience people give here , one way or another, people will *stick to their personal belief* even if medical evidence to the contrary is overwhelming. The allure of inexpensive cost of needling and the 'great expectation', I think, is what is fueling a lot of passionate debate.

I've too had great results after a recommended course of needling, using HGH and other expensive topical recommended by my dermatologist - but these micro-swelling all faded away after 2-3 weeks. Then I would do needling again and it would make my skin pinkish and scars less noticeable then 2-3 weeks, deja vu, nothing really changed. Some of my scars actually look worse a year after needling. That is my experience and I think you should take it along with dozens of experience that claims otherwise.

I'm just sharing my experience, if you go to other acne boards, almost nobody is talking about needling seriously as a scar improvement not because it is unknown (its been around almost a decade now) because there are better methods out there, some new, some old. You get what you paid for but in some cases, what you pay for with needling you can do a lot better with other modality.

On the other hand, I'm sure people have gotten poor results with lasers, dermabrasion, TCA, , etc, etc. Some maybe due to poor techniques (wrong modality for wrong type of scar, bad dermatologists) but as a collective whole, these techniques are what is generally recommended by the medical community and what most people have success with. People only want to hear what they want to hear - if 10,000 people done Fraxel and 500 people had bad experience, they would use the 500 people who come to complain on the internet as an example to support their claim that needling is better.

But most medical profession believe that if these people didn't get such a good result from laser modality, they sure will be disappointed from needling.

CIT and needling can help deliver topical creams (Retin A, Vitamin C, Collagens, HGF etc), LED to maximize its effect - this has never been argued because it punctures micro holes to better absorb these substances. But understand that these chemicals, even the new craze PRP, have limited effects for deep acne improvement. CIT depends on these chemicals to maximize its effects, even added together, it is limited at best. Other modality are usually standalone and of course you can use these chemicals in addition, but you are talking about few percentage difference because their effects are just that.

The scientific community (who is interested in verifiable truth, would give a rat's AS# about whether doctors make more from CIT or latest laser machines) have never validated the effectiveness of needling other than the one or two articles keep being rehashed by the needling companies and their advocates. I'm just saying if the people who keep posting 'scientific evidence' supporting needling spent a fraction of time researching other modality, they will find a more credible mountain of evidence that gives better results.

In the end, I would caution people not to believe any internet posting. Not even mine. Use it as a guideline and be sure to talk to as many professional as possible. A lot of misinformation are out there, it is up to you to sort out what is BEST for you. Some people would like to poison the well by suggesting that doctors have a vested interest in not introducing needling - well, that is such a convenient & self-serving argument. If I had to trust my face to the medical/scientific community or some unknown poster on the internet, I would pick the professional who spent 8 years of their lives understanding my skin any day of my life.

That's just my 2 cents.

Edited by claisen, 21 May 2010 - 05:58 AM.


#157 scoobie_do

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Posted 24 May 2010 - 06:51 PM

Claisen,

Thanks for sharing. Wanted to ask you're opinion. Here's a study,
which you've probably read already. Its a "Dr. Fernandez" study:

Http://www.dermogenesis.com/clinical/clin_art.php?aid=151

5 doctors, 480 samples (people), dermarolling, good results.
The three options from the above "positive results" are:
1. The 5 doctors are liars, being deceptive about the results.
2. The 5 doctors are lunatics (twisted reality).
3. The 5 doctors are truthful in their study.

There are no other options. Let's discount #2, and assume they aren't
crazy. You are concluding, I assume, that they are deliberately lying
in their research paper. That the results are intentionally misleading,
the whole nine yards, phoney photos, statistics, etc., and they then published
it in the Journal of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery for some reason.

Assuming dermarolling is either effective, or ineffective... from your
perspective, how do you take into account a study like this? Its pretty
"cut and dry", easy to read, simply conclusions. Do you feel the doctors
were deliberately lying?

#158 pepo

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Posted 25 May 2010 - 11:48 AM

QUOTE (scoobie_do @ May 25 2010, 12:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Claisen,

Thanks for sharing. Wanted to ask you're opinion. Here's a study,
which you've probably read already. Its a "Dr. Fernandez" study:

Http://www.dermogenesis.com/clinical/clin_art.php?aid=151

5 doctors, 480 samples (people), dermarolling, good results.
The three options from the above "positive results" are:
1. The 5 doctors are liars, being deceptive about the results.
2. The 5 doctors are lunatics (twisted reality).
3. The 5 doctors are truthful in their study.

There are no other options. Let's discount #2, and assume they aren't
crazy. You are concluding, I assume, that they are deliberately lying
in their research paper. That the results are intentionally misleading,
the whole nine yards, phoney photos, statistics, etc., and they then published
it in the Journal of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery for some reason.

Assuming dermarolling is either effective, or ineffective... from your
perspective, how do you take into account a study like this? Its pretty
"cut and dry", easy to read, simply conclusions. Do you feel the doctors
were deliberately lying?


you are using a clinical trial from a company who distribute CIT rollers as your source.

the problem these days is that you can get clinical trials to show you anything you want. some are independent some are not, some are funded by companies in search of positive results some are not. also with clinical trials regarding opinion based improvements you get very inaccurate results precisely because they are opinion based. often i read medical papers and they say something like 'on average 50 people saw a 50% improvement in their scars'. how can you say they got a 50% improvement? its extremely hard to measure. often i hear about certain methods giving 25-75% improvement in scars and then you see comparison pictures and they are mostly a massive let down.

it happens with all sorts of products e.g. bodybuilding supplements. 'clinically proven to add 12lbs of muscle in an 8 week cycle'. the science looks all good and proper, but in the end you will be lucky to put on anything at all. strange how all the 'test subjects' but on 10-15lbs yet other customers dont see any reults at all.

ive recently experienced something very similar with lugols solution. a medical paper written by Dr David Derry suggests consistent application of lugols solution to scars will make them dissapear. What reason have i got to believe hes lieing - none at all. he says every scar he has tried it on has disappeared. ive tried it for nearly 6 months now and i havent seen a single bit of improvement.

i guess what im trying to say is always take medical papers with a pinch of salt. there are so many medical papers out there which completely contradict each other.

im not saying rolling doesnt work, in fact i think with prolonged use it probably does, i just dont think it works very well and not necessarily better than other forms of treatment.

#159 katiekat

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 05:42 PM

http://www.realself.com/photo/157755

#160 logger710

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Posted 17 June 2010 - 03:47 PM

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