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Dermarolling Support Thread

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Stick with it...scars remodeling can be odd and alarming at the start...but after about 1 month they look much more calm and one thing I always noticed is the depth reduction

I think my Green Cream (level 6), or any retinol/retin-a will help things along ALOT...and a plus is that it will make your scars look smaller and pores more refined temporarily, while still helping along permanent results of collagen building and scar remodeling

Also cannot forget the C serum I am using, really helps calm things down and reduce chances of breakouts (the vit A also helps this)

ohh and carolina rain, quit ASAP! :)

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I made a thread but no one seems to notice so here goes:

Hi guys,

I'm new to this forum and I have a few questions about dermarolling.

To start off, though I am a noob, I have read through many pages in different threads so I hope these questions will not anger any members.

I have considered many treatments but it seems like many people are having success with dermarolling. My scars are considered rolling and in my temple areas.

My first question is: What is the actual price of this procedure?

I see many people here with home self-treatment, but in many articles/sites, it is said that this procedure should only be done by a profession like the vid at this site: http://www.drbustillo.com/roll-cit.htm

In the vid, they said the procedure is $2500 to $3000 American. But I doubt most of you paid that much for the home-kits. Can you clarify please?

Also I see this vid and the patient had dramatic results in one trial.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4wwQFQtrus...feature=related

It's definitely possible that it's manufactured that way for profit but it's nevertheless impressive. What is the realistic (average) results to expect? (mainly through people who have successfully used it)

I read through Lamar's thread http://www.acne.org/messageboard/guys-t217908.html and I believe his personal procedure was dermarolling but it also mentioned "needling" which I did not find a proper explanation.

My last question is: How widely known/utilized is this procedure? Can I go to any dermatologist and expect him/her to be experienced? On that note, does anyone in NYC that have a good dermatologist that you can recommend? smile.gif

I apologize if you heard these questions many times before, but I read for hours and didn't find the exact answers I hoped for. Thanks for reading.

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Is the effects of dermarolling permanent? Does it turn back the aging process of your skin, or just makes it produce more collagen temporarily ?

I have saggy skin on my nose due to my previous use of Bensoyl Peroxide. I'm over-sensitive to the substance, which I didn't know at the time I was using it.

Now I'm trying to repair my skin.

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Is the effects of dermarolling permanent? Does it turn back the aging process of your skin, or just makes it produce more collagen temporarily ?

I have saggy skin on my nose due to my previous use of Bensoyl Peroxide. I'm over-sensitive to the substance, which I didn't know at the time I was using it.

Now I'm trying to repair my skin.

It is like any scar removal technique, in that yes the results are permanenet per se, but as you naturally age your scars will become more apparent again. However you need to bare in mind that if you get improvement these results will always make you better off than you would of been without them,

e.g. if you get 30% improvement, 5 years later you will still be 30% (or there abouts) better off than you would of been at that stage. But your scarring may still become more obvious again because of natural ageing.

I hope this is clear. My advice? you a physical sunblock, take some oral vitamin C and use home light therapy. One dermaroller session per year should easily maintain results this way.

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munsoned, I think we should leave this thread for products based on advise through reports ect. dealing with the use dermaroller. Unless of course something has been proven to work for others.

Otherwise, instead of a thread where someone can to for matter of fact info, they will be forced to read through a bunch of stuff that is useless and confusing.

Within the next few days, I will be posting to this thread about my use of GreenCream that I think others will want to know about. I wanted to wait at least one full week of use before giving any feedback.

C Ya

yeah you're right. I started a new topic asking if anybody has tried it..this was the wrong place for it without any personal use..

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munsoned, I think we should leave this thread for products based on advise through reports ect. dealing with the use dermaroller. Unless of course something has been proven to work for others.

Otherwise, instead of a thread where someone can to for matter of fact info, they will be forced to read through a bunch of stuff that is useless and confusing.

Within the next few days, I will be posting to this thread about my use of GreenCream that I think others will want to know about. I wanted to wait at least one full week of use before giving any feedback.

C Ya

yeah you're right. I started a new topic asking if anybody has tried it..this was the wrong place for it without any personal use..

Hi, everyone...I'm new to this site. I am probably older than most of you, age 62. I had moderately severe acne years ago in my teens and have the scars to prove it. I'm fortunate not to have many wrinkles, but the scars look worse now that I have lost some of the fullness of youth. I've always been selfconcious about the scars and now that I have heard of dermarolling it seems like a miracle come true. I have several dermarollers, 0.25mm, 0.5mm, 1.5mm, and 2.0mm. I also have the lac-sal serum, supercop & emu oil from Skinbiology.com. I tried the 0.5mm roller a few days ago and OUCH!! it certainly wasn't pain free although I was pushing really hard with it. I may try the local anesthetic cream.

Anyway, to make a long story short, I'm a bit of a regimented person so I'd like a real plan on how to use this thing. It seems that many of you have a different system. On the Skinbiology site, I found something that said you can put the supercop on BEFORE rolling...has anyone done this? Also, how about retin A? I would have to get it from a dermatologist, and I would..but can you use this with supercop? I just don't know what system to use...I would appreciate any help you can give me, and hopefully it will help others, too!!

Thanks for listening....

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Which needle-length and brand are you guys using? I use Dr. Roller 1.5 mm.

I roll without anaestethic, because I wan't to feel exactly how hard I'm pushing the roller. It hurts some, but I can deal with it.

I have definetly seen some improvements, but I'm still not satisfied. I'm thinking about purchasing a new roller with a needle length of 2-3 mm. However, many of the retailers don't want to sell the profesional rollers to the public with the excuse that it can be dangerous in the wrong hands.

Ofcourse it's dangerous if you're not careful and don't use the a good routine with sterility and so on. But apart from that, is it really THAT dangerous?

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Hi I just started rolling and currently have a 0.5 mm roller.The manufacturer says it can be used 100 or so times but that doesnt sound right from what I've read. My question is I know I need a magnifying glass to check the roller but are there varying times you can use a roller depending on its length?I would hope you could use the 0.5 a few more times however I dont want to even think of messing my face up from having them bend or something......second question is there anyone that is using Roc deep wrinkle filler with retinol and hyalauronic acid after rolling?.....any opinions on whether this is safe or not? Thanks soooo much people just battling these scars and dont want to screw up! ps this is most likely somewhere but I can seem to get the right answers on threads and cant find the info I need so I apologize if this had already been discussed on here somewhere.

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Dermarollers and needles

1.5mm derma roller (2mm for advanced rollers and if you want to take a slight increase in risk of infection or other potential side effects) personally I feel the results from a 2mm roller are better and will be better than a 1.5mm roller for most, but I do believe there is a slight increase in risk of side effects, although this is minimal. I prefer the 3 line or 4 line rollers that you can get; they are easier to apply the right pressure for penetration and to get the correct penetration depth across the whole face.

For the more stubborn and deeper scars I recommend the BD Micro-Fine Pen Needle 31 G x 5mm. I used to recommend using stoppers with these, but if you are careful in not penetrating the full 5mm, making sure you use between 3-4mm and not directly in at 90degrees, but at angles so you don’t penetrate to the full depth then you should be fine. Practice this on your arm before hand ( I recommend practicing on the arm for all stages of needling including the topical anesthetic, use of Dermaroller etc.

To clean your rollers firstly dip the roller in 70% isopropyl alcohol for about 10-15 minutes, then dip in Hibicleanse for 5 minutes or so. Using one of the UV-C disinfection devices is also a good idea.

Skin Preparation

EMLA is to be used, under an occlusive dressing for at least 1 hr (Cling film or saran wrap for you Americans). I personally use a small home Dermaroller i.e. 0.2 mm needle length before i apply the EMLA to increase absorption. I think people should try with just the occlusion and EMLA first though, if you can tolerate the pain then don’t bother with the smaller roller before hand, this way less EMLA will be entering the blood stream.

For disinfection I use a combination of 70% isopropyl alcohol, and hibicleanse/hibiscrub.. To pre the skin, again a combination of isopropyl 70% wipes, then cleaning with hibiscrub for several minutes and rinse THOROUGHLY, should be sufficient.

I always keep a tube of Bactroban ointment handy for any potential breakouts or infections. The Hibicleanse can also be used as a cleanser for a few days before and after dermaroller/needling to help prevent breakouts. Don’t use hibiscrub or alcohol in the first few days post dermaroller or needling though.

Oral supplements

The two supplements I recommend are vitamin C, at least 1000mg daily preferably 2000mg for several (split this into several doses throughout the day) months post dermaroller/needling. Another good supplement is red wine/grape seed extract (iherb have a very good red wine extract by doctors best). A multivitamin can’t hurt but for those of you who have taken Accutane I would find a multivitamin WITHOUT vitamin A.

Topicals

Now everyone prefers different topical, people know my preference i.e. terproline. I think it is a very good topical and I will always recommend it till something better comes along. If your skin agrees with retionds you may like these, but I don’t recommend starting these at the same time as needling/Dermaroller until you know how your skin reacts. Don’t use topical Retinoids if you have taken accutane in the past few years, or until you know how your skin responds to topical Retinoids. Topical Vitamin A the same applies.

Topical vitamin C (ascorbic acid) is another good one which I like. You need a good 15 or 20% solution and it needs to be the right PH. Check up on these things.

Copper peptides I have tried and wasn’t a big fan of but they did seem to refine my pores slightly, I haven’t used long term but again some people really like them.

Keep topical simple, don’t use too many of them it will only confuse matters. Don’t start topical in the middle of starting needling or dermaroller.

If you are using a topical to keep your acne under control, then you should probably keep using it. I personally recommend light therapy if you have active acne though as it won’t irritate the skin like some topical can.

Light therapy

Now this is one of the most important stages. I recommend everyone use light therapy, a combination of yellow (590 nm) red (660nm) and infra red (880nm) is best. You can use each separately or a combination of each. Some people believe using each separately is best. I use the 660/990 together and the yellow separately.

For acne you need the blue frequency at or around 405-420nm. The Beauty skin device is very good for acne.

Every day for the first few weeks or every other day at least. You need to reach the correct level of energy (joules per cm squared) we aim to hit about 6 joules. So you need to keep the distance down to about an inch or so from the skin and use them for approximately 5 minutes per are if you are using the LED mans devices.

You need to read up on each of these topic areas, I can’t go into enough detail and there will always be questions or variables which you can generally find the answers to out there, by searching. I love giving advice to people but when the questions are easy to find the answer to and they are repeatedly continuously it get a bit annoying.

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Is it nessecary to use a skin numbing solution? Does everyone do this?

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Thanks to everyone who put this together. It's a great resource!

I'm looking to purchase a dermaroller for daily use and I was wondering what's the most effective needle length. I see .5mm and .75mm on ebay. Which one works better? Any recommendations?

This is for better absorption of topical creams like terproline. What's too long to use on a regular basis?

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I have done two dermarolling sessions with a Dr Roller 1.5 mm. I have used Envirion Original Essentia Oil on my skin every night. It is rich with vitamin a, e, c and beta carothene.

My problem is that i get very good results in about 2-3 weeks after each treatment, but after a while my skin goes back to it's normal state. I have saggy skin on my nose and scars on my checks and forehead. I get a good tightening effect some weeks, but then it goes back to the way it was before.

So I'm just wondering, why? Is dermaroller just another "temporary" way to treat scars? Should I buy a roller with longer needles?

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Enough time has passed that I can definitely say some of my scars are worse from dermarolling. I wanted to post exactly why I think this happened, so you guys can learn from my idiocy.

Don't press so hard when you roll that some of the needles get stuck and the roller drags. The roller should always move smoothly over the skin. If the roller moves while the needles are stuck to far into the skin the drag can cause wider holes than what is necessarry and create worse scars.

I find that I can use fairly light pressure and still bleed quite a lot, I just make sure I move the roller evenly and smoothly and I've had no further issues with scarring. I decided to avoid my worst scars around my cheek area for now. I want to try tca cross for these. The rest looks great.

Is it a bad thing to use retin a after a roll? Could this make scarring worse?

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Enough time has passed that I can definitely say some of my scars are worse from dermarolling. I wanted to post exactly why I think this happened, so you guys can learn from my idiocy.

Don't press so hard when you roll that some of the needles get stuck and the roller drags. The roller should always move smoothly over the skin. If the roller moves while the needles are stuck to far into the skin the drag can cause wider holes than what is necessarry and create worse scars.

I find that I can use fairly light pressure and still bleed quite a lot, I just make sure I move the roller evenly and smoothly and I've had no further issues with scarring. I decided to avoid my worst scars around my cheek area for now. I want to try tca cross for these. The rest looks great.

Is it a bad thing to use retin a after a roll? Could this make scarring worse?

So the scars that you pushed too hard on, turned out worse but the ones you did correctly, it had alot of improvement?

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I have enlarged pores that look a lot better. I use tazorac right after I dermaroll so it could be that the improvement is caused by the tazorac penetrating so deeply. The only acne scars I have are on both my lower cheek areas and I'm going to avoid using the roller on these for now and try the tca cross instead.

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I'm thinking of going on the roller. I have some questions though:

What happens if I'm out in the sun after I've rolled my face? Is it really that bad?

What should I use on my face after every rolling session?

If I get a 1,5 mm roller, how often should I use it?

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Does anyone know if the results from dermaroller on acne scars are permanent, or does it only make the scars better as long as you roll?

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I just posted this in the "Ok guys.." dermarolling thread started by Lamarr, but given the pinned status and title of this thread, thought I should post it here as well. Hope the info helps, thanks.

---------------------------------------------------------

I've been doing needling along with LEDs per Lamarr's advice for about the past 6 months.

It isn't a miracle cure and the results are slow, but it's the best thing I've ever tried for my scars.

It was much better than tca cross especially for me (better results, and much less terrible scar magnifying redness).

I have ice pick and box car type scarring mainly. The scars that I was most aggressive on (i.e. had the most sessions on and punctured the most times per session) have had the best results. I typically focus on individual scars w/ 3mm diabetic needles, but when my schedule permits downtime I will also do full face 2.0 or 2.5mm roller.

There is one scar that was a mid sized box car that has been raised significantly, I'd say 40% improvement. That is the one I have been most aggressive on and had the most sessions on, which is probably why it's had the best results. There are a few icepicks that have also improved about 30% and again they are the ones I was most aggressive on. Many of my other scars have only improved around 10% or not at all, but these are generally the ones that I was not as aggressive on and/or did not have as many sessions on.

Now, if I jump on them very aggressively too is that going to cause them to improve a lot as well? Who knows, with scars you can't predict anything. But I will say again that this method has the most promsie to me of doing that than any other I've tried.

Like many treatments, your scars will still look red and thus worse than normal as you go through this process, and you have to be patient and have many sessions. There were certain sessions when I felt I had been very aggressive on certain scars and then got no improvement over the following month - but then I tried again on them a month later, with the same level of aggression, and got a solid 10 or 15% improvement over the following month. Perhaps the first time undermined the scar in an unnoticeable way making it more ammenable to the next session, or perhaps it was just luck and the chance of where in the scar you prick and at what angle. One of the conclusions I draw from it is that I should try to do as many sessions (no less than a month apart though) on as many of my scars as I can, being as aggressive as I can (while still being safe).

A few other pointers: Firstly, I believe the LEDs are very key. I've used them pretty religiously, once per day about 5 days per week. I use my red and yellow leds for about 7 minutes each. I'm not very familiar with the science behind them and my understanding is that 5 minutes may be optimum. I just prefer a couple minutes longer, as it seemed to improve my results ever so slightly but that's just me and it could simply have been a coincidence. Point is that I think the LEDs are key as Lamarr has said again and again.

Secondly, after you do a session, get as much sleep as possible over the following week at least. I'm a workaholic and part-time student and often only get 4 hours a night. I've had no choice but to do most of my sessions under those conditions - however, there was one session where i was able to reduce my workload for the subsequent week and get plenty of sleep, and that was my best session in terms of results.

Thirdly, I take a whole lot of vitamin C. Other stuff may help as well (I also take yeast tablets and a multi), but C is obviously worthwhile.

As far as topicals go, I do use the terproline that Lamarr suggested. I don't believe it made a major difference in the results (though I could be wrong). But I like it, it doesn't break me out and it moisturizes.

So the ideas are: be very aggressive, do as many sessions as possible (allowing >1 month of healing in between), use the LEDs, get lots of sleep, take vitamin C.

Use these ideas at your own risk. These are essentially the ideas Lamarr stated from day one, so I'm not providing anything new. I'm mainly here (as others have been) to say that I believe that this works. Whether it can achieve 100% improvement on my icepick and boxcar scarring I do not know yet, but I can verify that it's achieved 40% so far on at least one of them.

I'm mad busy but will try to update with my progress and any other procedures I try in the coming months. Best of luck you guys. If you cure your scars, try to help others w/ permanent problems and never base ur treatment of a book on its cover.

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There is a company in Ireland that sell Dr.Roller branded derma rollers that include free delivery to anywhere in the world.They sell for only €45/$62 delivered to your door.They also accept paypal.

To buy them goto:

*Moderator edit, URL removed - read the board rules. *

For more information on these Dr.Rollers goto:

*Moderator edit, URL removed - read the board rules. *

These guys are great to deal with and brilliant prices with free delivery.I bougt the .5mm and 1mm from them.I haven't worked up the courage to use the 1.5 yet.

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Great reply Jonah.Thanks for taking the time to write this all up.Keep up the good work.

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Would the following be safe to use right after "rolling"?:

Kirkland Signatureâ„¢ by Borghese Age-Defying Protective Moisture Lotion SPF 15

Nourish Your Skin. Formulated with Mineral Salts, Sea Salts, and anti-oxidant Vitamin E, this nutritious daily moisturizer helps protect and defend skin from the sun’s harmful rays and free radical damage. Light and luxurious, it hydrates all day as it restores a smoother, firmer, more radiant look.

Thanks for any help.

If not what would be the best post cream to use?

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I don't think sunscreen would be too safe to use after rolling. Since the micro channels are created by the needles, you wouldn't want the ingredients of a sunscreen to past through those channels deep into your skin. It's not safe to be absorbed. I would probably just stay out of the sun for 2 to 3 days, to the best of your abilities and not worry too much on what type of topicals you ought to use after being treated. I don't think topicals will add much to your result since it's only dermarolling and there is nothing else involved. Just keep the area clean and don't over do it with any creams.

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One other interesting thing I've thought about are methods that can be used to improve circulation of blood around one's face. I believe that many people who have fought bad rounds of acne and suffered some scarring as the results may tend to not show facial expressions or emotions as well as person with "better" skin. It's really interesting to note that I've been playing around with a lot of facial exercises in the past few months and I've noticed a dramatic change in my overall skin tone and I would dare say in some of my scarring. Doing exaggerated movements with your face, for the sake of exercising certain muscles such as your cheekbones, or chin, or your smile, may actually help to get more blood to the surrounding area. More blood means more oxygen and nourishment to the tissue. I know actors regularly exercise their faces to keep their tone and skin firm. Maybe most people in their daily stressful lives could use of a bit of that too. I mean, how many of us actually find ways to use all of the muscles in our face? A lot of us live very boring lives, working in an office every day, having to drive or sit on a bus, waiting for a light, we're moving our bodies but not our faces. Actors HAVE to do it because its their work, their job, their lively-hood. And they're the ones that tend to have the better skin (yes, I know, it's not always true).

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I can not for the life of me find any individual needles shorter than 5 mm in length. Can anyone help me out here? I was hoping to find something like 2-3 mm so it's appropriate for needling individual scars.

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Anyone know a good topical with vitamin C to use after a rolling-session? I use Environ Original Essentia Oil. It work wonders, but... I get zits. I need some kind of oil-free topical. So help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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