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Dermarolling Support Thread

needling

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#1 munsoned

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Posted 19 January 2009 - 10:38 PM

This thread is going to be dedicated to information regarding dermarolling..If you have any worth while links to add please do so..Just make sure that you dont add any links that have allready been posted..


Just to add..This information was put together by Bethany of the eds forum..She put alot of time and effort into this obviously and want to give credit where credit is due..


Environ® Medical Roll-CIT™ Micro-needling
Revolutionary New Approach to Medical Needling
Probably my FAVORITE rolling article - it contains frequency recommendations, as well as pre- and post-roll protocols for optimal collagen development. Also comparisons of rolling with 1mm vs. 3mm needles.
http://www.dermaconc...mmNeedling1.pdf


Micro Needling and Injecting Platelet Rich Plasma to Enhance Collagen Synthesis and Skin Tightening.
Author: Joseph F. Greco, PhD, PA/C
This article discusses a number of needling research studies, wound healing, and mesotherapy lifts (with pics)
http://www.microneed...r...umbs&page=1


New Life for Lips
A VERY good article focusing on above the lip lines, usage of 1.0mm vs 3.0mm needles, and the protocols used by Dr. Des Fernandes (one of the inventors)
http://www.vivida.co.../show_article/3


Minimally Invasive Percutaneous Collagen Induction
Desmond Fernandes, MB, BCh, FRCS(Edin)
This article provides a great overview of how collagen is developed with the micro needling process, as well as the rolling protcol, etc. (pics included)
http://www.dermogene...f_N_Am_2005.pdf


The Collagen Induction Therapy
Provides an overview (with pics) of the medical roll process.
http://www.cit-nordi...etechnique.html


Euro Medi Travel
Page 8 contains CIT frequency recommendations based on skin condition:
http://www.euromedit...tional_info.pdf

Environ stunned the world...
Some results pics and detailed directions on how to do a roll, including frequency of usage for the .2mm Environ home care roller:
http://www.beautymag...ron_rollcit.htm


Getting The Point
An overview of the process from Dr. Des Fernandes, including some frequency recommendations:
http://www.vivida.co..._newsletter.pdf


Some results photos from a Boston doctor (with pics):
http://www.bostoncen...ninduction.html


A Miami doctor's webpage, with links to a video of him performing the procedure:
http://www.drbustillo.com/roll-cit.htm


The Dermaroller blog where I asked Horst Liebl about needle length, and his reply:
http://dermaroller.w...lagen-function/


The Dermaroller blog with a question and answer on rolling frequency:
http://dermaroller.w...ment-intervals/


STIMULATION OF CELL GROWTH
by Horst Liebl
http://www.dermaroll...eflections.html


Electrical Signals Control Wound Healing (dermarollers generate electrical charges)
http://www.dermaroll...es/Findings.pdf


Percutanous Delivery By Dr. K. Anastassakis May 2005
http://www.dermaroll...s-delivery.html


Collagen Induction Therapy in Mouse ( IPL vs. Micro-needling )
http://www.clinicalr...S...umbs&page=1


Skin Needling - A New Treatment for Scars and Lines
http://www.mesothera...0Doctors_MW.pdf


Percutaneous Collagen Induction Therapy: An Alternative Treatment for Scars, Wrinkles, and Skin Laxity
http://www.acaciader.....pril 2008.pdf


MTS (Microneedle Therapy System) by Prof. Kim Beom Joon, Department of Dermatology
Dongguk University International Hospital
page 15 talks about delivery of ascorbic acid
Lots of pictures of scar revisions, striae, etc.
http://www.clinicalr...kimbeomjoon.pdf

#2 thelegend

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 08:21 AM

"Environ® Medical Roll-CIT™ Micro-needling
Revolutionary New Approach to Medical Needling
Probably my FAVORITE rolling article - it contains frequency recommendations, as well as pre- and post-roll protocols for optimal collagen development. Also comparisons of rolling with 1mm vs. 3mm needles.
http://www.dermaconc...n1...ling1.pdf"

Any idea on the specific kind of Vitamin A topical being used

#3 munsoned

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 09:50 AM

QUOTE (thelegend @ Jan 20 2009, 09:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
"Environ® Medical Roll-CIT™ Micro-needling
Revolutionary New Approach to Medical Needling
Probably my FAVORITE rolling article - it contains frequency recommendations, as well as pre- and post-roll protocols for optimal collagen development. Also comparisons of rolling with 1mm vs. 3mm needles.
http://www.dermaconc...n1...ling1.pdf"

Any idea on the specific kind of Vitamin A topical being used



legend, I have read retin a or a company called 302 which has a serum, C boost and A boost..

I have just come in contact with all this info legend, I am asking questions on another forum..I have pmed some members and I am doing all the research I can.I am not dropping my current topicals just yet..as I learn more and can better digest more of this info I'll keep you posted..

#4 just another1

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 10:17 AM

To put the facts out here, the person above who started this topic did a full copy and paste directly from the EDS forum. He gave NO credit at all to Bethany from that forum who worked her tail off reading, researching and compiling the info for others to be helped.

It wasn't until I personally PMed this above topic starter that he changed the text giving credit where credit was do



Many thanks to "bethany" from EDS for collecting all this info.

I think the moderators should consider "pinning" this thread to the top.Everything anyone wanted to know about dermarolling is contained in these links.

Also, others who are interested in this procedure should consider starting a folder on your PC to save the info contained here in case links go dead in the future.

I will have info on a Vitamin A/C topical product to use very soon. I'm waiting on a couple emails.

#5 munsoned

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 10:36 AM

QUOTE (just another1 @ Jan 20 2009, 10:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Great job starting this thread munsoned. Many thanks to "bethany" from EDS for collecting all this info.

I think the moderators should consider "pinning" this thread to the top.Everything anyone wanted to know about dermarolling is contained in these links. Also, others who are interested in this procedure should consider starting a folder on your PC to save the info contained here in case links go dead in the future.

We will have info on a Vitamin A/C topical product to use very soon. I'm waiting on a couple emails.



Thanks JA1..But JA1 and crzyakta are the guys who really helped put this together on this forum..I just pitched in after they were kind enough to point this info out to me..

So its thanks to them... wink.gif

#6 crzyakta

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 06:00 PM

Hey munsoned, glad you got this here...bethany is a WEALTH of info at EDS, as is Boski, both are great

As to the forms of Vit A, a non acidic (lipid based) form of a retinoid (or for sensitive skin, retinols etc)

302 is one of the companies that makes a A serum and a C serum based in avocado oil, Boski vouches for their effectiveness, and you can see her before and after pics on the site, nothing short of amazing skin (and she is in her 50s!)

#7 just another1

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 06:12 PM

Here are couple Vitamin A products that can be used while dermarolling.

The first is "A Boost" from 302 SkinCare. They claim it to be very mild. You will need to order from an outside source as the main company doesn't sell directly to the public. I sent out a few emails to various sellers of this line and no one answered back. I then tried calling these sellers and their phone lines were constantly tied up.

I finally called 302 themselves and the rep there gave me a contact. The contact was Advanced Dermatology out of Washington state. they answered the phone quickly and were happy to help. The "A boost" sells for $45 US plus delivery for 1 ounce. The person to ask for is Sabrina Simon. She can quote prices on all the products and discuss their use.

Link to A Boost: http://www.302skinca...cts_aboost.html

Link to Advanced Dermatology: http://www.advancederm.net/


The other product is from a line developed by Dr. Fernandes called "Environ". Dr. Fernandes is the person behind the Roll-Cit ( dermaroller) and the author of the detailed report in one of the links above. Again, his company doesn't sell directly to the public. He even has a listing on his site of a few companies he calls out as not being authorized sellers of his products.

One of those companies FirstForSkinCare has the full product line listed with a 110% guarantee that all products are fresh and original. I'm not exactly sure what issue is bewteen these two companies but I'm guessing it has to do with way FFSC markets products. Anyway, it's up to each of you to decide if you want to deal with them.

BTW, it looks like "Environ Original Essentia Oil" is the product Dr. Fernandes was using after his dermarolling sessions. I personally like the description/ingredients of there "Environ Original Moisture Gel" which is listed as mild and oil free. You can look further into yourselves.

Link to FirstForSkinCare: http://www.firstfors...m/original.html

Link to Environ: http://www.environ.co.za/


P.S. prescription type retinoids like Retin A, Differin, Tazorac can also be used but the two products listed above are marketed as being mild compared to those.

#8 crzyakta

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 08:21 PM

yeah the Rx Vit A derivatives apparently can only be used 2-3 days max a week

Also, according the the Dr behind 302, using C and A serums should be alternated with using C one night then A the next, throughout the week

There is alot of science behind this (from the Dr himself as well), as discussed in Boski's 302 thread at EDS on page 79 (from the Dr himself as well)...it has to do with receptors on the skin at the sites of application

#9 munsoned

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 09:58 PM

http://www.serioussk...t.asp?compid=15

A-CREAM NANO XR SPF 30
A-CREAM
A-CREAM WITH SPF 30, WITH PEPTIDES, 2 OZ.


Can be purchased on ebay also....



#10 crzyakta

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Posted 24 January 2009 - 08:45 PM

More on Retin-A, retinol and retinyl palmitate and their uses for skin issues, a good read...the link was provided by Bethany from EDS:


http://www.dermadoct...-Creams_63.html

#11 munsoned

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Posted 24 January 2009 - 11:04 PM

QUOTE (crzyakta @ Jan 24 2009, 08:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
More on Retin-A, retinol and retinyl palmitate and their uses for skin issues, a good read...the link was provided by Bethany from EDS:


http://www.dermadoct...-Creams_63.html



great article..learned some new stuff to think about..thanks crzyakta

#12 dwainpipe

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 11:12 AM

Do none of you guys use green cream after dermarolling? thats what im currently doing at night-time followed by terproline, and in the morning just terproline and moisturizer.

Seems to be improving my skin tone/texture. Been dermarolling for 3 months now since November 08' first 2 months with just a 1 mm and this month with 1.5mm.

#13 just another1

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 04:48 PM

QUOTE (dwainpipe @ Jan 25 2009, 01:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do none of you guys use green cream after dermarolling? thats what im currently doing at night-time followed by terproline, and in the morning just terproline and moisturizer.

Seems to be improving my skin tone/texture. Been dermarolling for 3 months now since November 08' first 2 months with just a 1 mm and this month with 1.5mm.


I currently use Super CP Serum from SkinBiology as terproline isn't available to us here in the states.

It wasn't until reading the report from Dr. Fernandes that I was aware of the need for the use a topical Vitamin A product. I only heard of Green Cream in passing over the years and wasn't sure what it was made of until a did a search after your post here.

Looks like something I will look further into. Thanks for the info.

Here's a link to Green Cream: http://www.greencream.com/product.htm


P.S. I assume this is the product dwain is talking about.

#14 munsoned

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 05:26 PM

Thank you dwainpipe and JA1. smile.gif looks like a very good topical line to consider..

#15 DudleyDoRight

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Posted 25 January 2009 - 06:37 PM

Here is an article on rolling from the Skin Biology site.
http://www.scar-redu...m/needling.html

#16 just another1

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 03:06 PM

munsoned, I think we should leave this thread for products based on advise through reports ect. dealing with the use dermaroller. Unless of course something has been proven to work for others.

Otherwise, instead of a thread where someone can to for matter of fact info, they will be forced to read through a bunch of stuff that is useless and confusing.

Within the next few days, I will be posting to this thread about my use of GreenCream that I think others will want to know about. I wanted to wait at least one full week of use before giving any feedback.

C Ya



#17 munsoned

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Posted 22 February 2009 - 03:41 PM

QUOTE (just another1 @ Feb 22 2009, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
munsoned, I think we should leave this thread for products based on advise through reports ect. dealing with the use dermaroller. Unless of course something has been proven to work for others.

Otherwise, instead of a thread where someone can to for matter of fact info, they will be forced to read through a bunch of stuff that is useless and confusing.

Within the next few days, I will be posting to this thread about my use of GreenCream that I think others will want to know about. I wanted to wait at least one full week of use before giving any feedback.

C Ya



yeah you're right. I started a new topic asking if anybody has tried it..this was the wrong place for it without any personal use..

#18 just another1

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 10:51 AM

I have been using Green Cream for about nine days now and the results I've had, have been great.

I started with the Level 3 because I didn't want any chance of severe bad reaction which can include redness and flaking skin. I have used Retin A many many years ago for at least 1 year and skin would always remain red.

I usually use the 0.5mm roller every other day but stopped the day I placed my order for Green Cream just make sure my skin was in a strong enough state to fight back any redness.

I applied the Green Cream and left it on for about 8 hours the first day. After washing it off my skin had a pink tone. The second day I left it on for at least 12 hours and again the skin was left with an even pink tone. By the third day I felt confident enough to try using GC after I used the 0.5mm roller.

I applied the Green Cream when I finished the 0.5mm session. I left it on for at least 8 hours. In that time I didn't feel any irritating effects or notice any added redness. I showered and applied the Level 3 just before bedtime. I was concerned with what my skin would look like by morning but I figured I would just roll the dice to see what would happen.

When I awoke and looked in the mirror, I was really shocked because my skin looked great! My pores ( which are very large) were a lot smaller. They haven't looked this small in almost 10 years! I had no excessive redness but I did have a slight pink tone to my skin.

I consider GC....or a product similar to GC ( Retinol) a MUST for anyone involved with dermarolling. I takes you to a new level of skin quality.

As is stated in many of the links in this thread, Dr. Fernandes, one the leading researchers on dermarolling considers topical Vitamin A the keep topical anyone dermarolling should use. He explains how it starts the whole collagen building process within the dermis. After seeing my results in just a week, I agree 100%.

A few points I want to make from my experience. When I used GC alone without rolling, the effects to my skin were minimal. Many of us who have read up on rolling understand how it will allow a huge uptake in topicals compared to not rolling before hand. This is certainly the case.

I think anyone who uses GC ( and there are many in the OTC section of this site) would get more intense and immediate beneficial effects if they consider using it along with a smaller roller maybe in the size of 0.15mm. 0.25mm or 0.5mm.

Some bad points I find with GC are;

It is very expensive. One ounce has an on average price of about $50 US delivered. I would say with the amount I use per day, I would be lucky if this will last 1 month.

The container appears to hold a lot more product then it actually does. It's a special pump container that keeps air and light out so the retinol isn't destroyed.

For me GC has a lot of moisturizer. Approx. 45 minutes after I apply it I can see the moisturizers bubblling through my pores (especially on the nose) but this is a problem I have with 95% of the topicals I have ever used. Many people don't have this issue.

It can make your skin, pink, red and perhaps worse if you go to fast and not allow your skin to adapt to it's strength.


On another note, I mentioned how expensive GC is. I looked around and dropped a few emails to companies trying to get the best deal. I came across one company who finally agreed to send me the Level 3 with free shipping and give me a free sample of the Level 6. From what I have seen almost everyone charges $3 to $6 just for a sample ( dependent of the Level of the sample).

I went ahead and ordered the Level 6 and again ask for the free shipping and another free sample of Level 9 ( which they agreed to). I then asked if it would be ok for me to let this forum know about it and if anyone here could get the same deal. They agreed.

Their name is "Cosmeticville". This is their site, http://www.cosmeticv...reen-cream.html They are also on eBay but they said they can't allow free samples through eBay because of a pricing schedule eBay puts them under.

If you are interested in getting a free sample, you need to write "FREE L3 Sample" "FREE L6 Sample" or "FREE L9 Sample" ( depending on which level sample you want....and only one) in the comment box of the order form.

They also noted that if you order the full size GC Level 3, shipping will be applied to the order then automatically given right back to you. I guess they can't adjust the site without incurring costs. The Level 6 and Level 9 go through with no shipping.

If anyone has a better deal than what I posted here, please post back to let us know about it!



BTW, GC has been loosening up blackheads I have been trying to treat for a while. They are smaller and softer. Some have fallen out on there own. I wont try to remove any physically for fear nose pores may be scarred in the process. It's really doing wonders to the skin.

Good Luck!




#19 munsoned

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 08:23 PM

sounds like you are off to a good start with the GC..I will be interested to see how things are going when you are a couple weeks into the next level..I read lionqueens posts and this stuff is highly praised..looks like its living up to the hype..nice to see a product deliver..hope you keep getting better and better results.

are you still using the cp's?? if so whats you routine like in regards to that with the GC??

is it called green cream cause it costs alot of green?? eusa_think.gif biggrin.gif

thanks for the update..keep us posted as you progress deeper into the green cream realm.

#20 just another1

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 10:35 PM

QUOTE (munsoned @ Feb 25 2009, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
sounds like you are off to a good start with the GC..I will be interested to see how things are going when you are a couple weeks into the next level..I read lionqueens posts and this stuff is highly praised..looks like its living up to the hype..nice to see a product deliver..hope you keep getting better and better results.

are you still using the cp's?? if so whats you routine like in regards to that with the GC??

is it called green cream cause it costs alot of green?? eusa_think.gif biggrin.gif

thanks for the update..keep us posted as you progress deeper into the green cream realm.


CP's still being used but alternated between GC.




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