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Stem Cells for Acne Scar Repair (SCIENCE FACT, not science fiction!)


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#1 Bulgarian R.

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 02:03 PM

First and foremost, I am not going to go into academic detail about the use of progenitor cells, particularly autologous adipose derived mesenchymal stem cells, for the treatment of various skin conditions including the repair of hypotrophic (depressed) acne scars. I realize most people here will not be interested in me blabbing on and on about this and that hypothesis while citing various academic articles. I am simply going to say that I am preparing to conduct an experiment with these cells as I believe they are far more capable of flattening and beautifying skin in comparison to anything else that is currently used by the conformist medical establishment.

Anyway, both anecdotal and peer reviewed evidence exists to suggest that mesenchymal stem cells can be used effectively to radically alter the appearance of one's "damaged" skin. The anecdotal evidence largely comes from people who have had successful autologous fat transfers. If the procedure is done right, a large number of adipocytes and resident stem cells can survive the transfer only to integrate themselves into the site of injection. When this happens, the patient often observes a very positive and noticeable difference in their skin within a few weeks/months time.

However, there are not that many mesenchymal stem cells in fat. So, some researchers have proposed a more advanced fat transfer technique, wherein the mesenchymal stem cells are separated from the fat cells, then cultured/multiplied for a few days/weeks, and then either (A) recombined with the fat cells and injected into facial tissue deficits, or (B) injected without recombination with fat cells.

Either way, by culturing the said stem cells for a short period of time, one can increase their numbers exponentially. It really isn't very hard to increase the number of stem cells found in 10cc of fat tissue 1000 fold. For example, a thousand cells can be turned into a million cells with the right culturing solution, incubation temperature and time management. Think of what a 1000X viable cell mass can do for the skin in comparison to what has already been achieved with the traditional fat transfer procedure...

OK, to make a long story short I want to try this procedure in 2009. Currently I am in the process of adding new equipment to my lab. Once that's done and I am brave enough to try some of my ideas I will go for it.

That said, I am most certainly not the first person to be doing this. There are many clinics in Eastern Europe and East Asia that are already offering this service. I don't know much about their quality control processes nor have I seen their results firsthand. However, a colleague recently sent me some before/after pictures of a doctor in Asia who is apparently trying the above described type (A) procedure. Again, what this means is that stem cells are extracted from fat tissue, then cultured, and finally recombined with the fat tissue a few days later into what is essentially an enhanced autologous cellular mixture which can regenerate tissue deficits present at the site of acne scars... This doctor is experimenting with stem cells for anything from scar revision to breast enlargement.

Anyway, here are the photos that I received:

Acne Scars:

http://img232.images...acnescarib9.jpg

http://img183.images...cnescar1er8.jpg

http://img297.images...cnescar2lu8.jpg


Wrinkles:

http://img232.images...773/5417el9.jpg

http://img297.images...797/5409lq0.jpg


The results look quite good and as far as I know are the product of a single treatment session.

In retrospect, the use of stem cells for cosmetic purposes is quite new. On the other hand, the extensive academic peer reviewed animal model studies and these preliminary results as seen in the above photos are all quite stimulating and exciting. The problem is that I don't know of a single colleague in North America or Western Europe who performs this type of procedure. It may be because of the bureaucratic regulations set in place within these countries (sometimes an extension of religious perspectives), or simply because of traditionalist medical inertia, which I'm sorry to say is very prevalent in many of the wealthy and "advanced" countries.

To illustrate my point, I recently spoke to a plastic surgeon in Canada about this very issue. I asked if he had considered the use of stem cells to treat acne scars. He replied, "it's coming!"

I was amused so I asked him to elaborate. He then said that the use of stem cells for cosmetic purposes will likely be available in 10 or so years. I was trying my best to be diplomatic when I explained to him that this exact procedure was already being performed in Japan, Russia, Korea, Taiwan, China, etc... Needless to say he was surprised by what I had to say. It was obvious to me that although he was being polite, he was also extremely sceptical that a young Bulgarian doctor may know something he doesn't... Finally after some ensuing discussions, he told me that he felt the use of synthetic dermal fillers was "good enough" and that the results he had achieved with these substances were very positive. In essence, he was being defensive and thus tried to redeem his lack of an innovative spirit with what I call B.S.!!! On the other hand, I'm pretty sure he is now more open to learning about autologous mesenchymal injections. Let's just abbreviate this procedure as AMI from now on.

Now I want to get to the point! If you live in a city and/or country where AMI is not available, then be the one to tell the medical community about it. Be the one to tell your local dermatologist and/or plastic surgeon that the use of stem cells for cosmetic purposes is not science fiction, but rather science reality. Tell them that you are not talking about the use of embryonic stem cells, but rather about autologous adult stem cells. If need be I will give you information about how this procedure is performed since your doctor will likely not have a clue. I am here to help, and the point I am making is that you can also help yourself. Spread the information and get your local docs to start thinking about what's best for YOU the patient. Needless to say, the first doctors to start performing this procedure in your respective countries/cities will have an immense competitive advantage.

And you may just get to have the skin you've always wanted.

Best wishes and start spreading the message of change,

BRD




#2 holdontohope

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 02:14 PM

Great post, BRD!!!!! Always so hopeful and inspiring. You are a pioneer and an innovator. Thank you!!!

I have FIVE questions/points to make:

1.) Do you think this would be good to do in conjunction with TCA CROSS? Say, right after the cross is performed? I wouldn't do before, cuz I wouldn't want to destroy the cells with the acid.

2.) Is there any way you could come up with a "script" that people could follow - complete with what sources to present, etc. --- when introducing their derms and PSs to stem cells???? I think you'd do that brilliantly and it'd be a major help.

Things that you could include in this "script" are:

- An introductory paragraph that someone could memorize and follow exactly or follow loosely ... words that would help us intelligently and succinctly breach the topic with our doctors.
- a link to clinical sources that we could print up and bring to show
- a step by step guide of what the doctor would need to do if they wanted to go ahead and use stem cells on us.

I don't know. Something like that.

3.) Is there any way that we could have our stem cells isolated, then keep them and inject them ourselves periodically?

4.) How often can we do stem cell injections into the same area?

5.) Do you know the name and contact info of this Asian doc who's before/after stem cell pics you showed? If so, could you provide them?

THANKS!!!!!

#3 Franklins Tower

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 03:08 PM

Thanks BRD, for always lifting our spirits and giving us hope....

I suggest that those interested in such treatment contact Allan Wu, MD (awu@MorrowInstitute.com)at the Morrow Institue, a cosmetic clinic outside of Palm Springs, CA. They have their own stem cell lab and may be open to use MSCs for acne scars.

#4 deadliest catch

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 03:13 PM

wow. very interesting. bul are you a doctor. you seem very well informed.

if i ever go back with my derm il tell him about this and see what he has to say.

#5 holdontohope

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 03:17 PM

Hey, BRD, I edited my first post and now have FIVE questions for ya.

#6 v_singh

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 03:22 PM

i do not quite understand the whole stem cell thing, but if this stuff does work is it only temporary like botox. as in do you have to keep goining back for top ups to keep the results ?
Are you a doctor ?

#7 Franklins Tower

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 03:23 PM

BRD, please do inform me if you know of any physician anywhere (preferably north america) who is using MSCs without recombining with fat.

#8 v_singh

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 03:33 PM

BRD could you explain in more simple terms what this procedure is and how its done lol. i dont understand

#9 deadliest catch

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 03:38 PM

if this is true i think we land on something far more bigger then acne scars. just think if this eliminated wrinkles.

#10 just another1

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 03:38 PM

This post should give many here more than hope. It's spelling out what's to come.

BRD, you hit the nail on the head when you said " sometimes an extension of religious perspectives " in regards to why certain countries haven't advanced in the area of stem cell research.

America has just gone through one of the worst periods in our history under the fascist leadership of Bush/Cheney, along with their christofascist supporters. We lived through a period where, pharmacutical companies, conspired with government officials as well as physicians themselves to drain the wallets of average citizens. Ignorance reigned king here for eight long years.

Within days we will be heading in a totally new direction under president Barack Obama. With it, will come advances in many areas where we have fallen behind.

The information you listed here is very promising. I look forward to hearing more about it.

#11 holdontohope

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 03:41 PM

QUOTE (v_singh @ Jan 15 2009, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
BRD could you explain in more simple terms what this procedure is and how its done lol. i dont understand


Please correct me if I'm wrong, BRD, but this is how I know it to be done in the simplist of terms:

1.) extract fat from abdomen which is rich in adult stem cells
2.) put fat in a centrifuge which turns the fat into layers of individual cell types. The stem cells are in one layer and are extracted.
3.) They're put into some sort of solution and injected into the skin.

#12 EricB

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 03:46 PM

Wow, very interesting! thank you for your post BRD! I am very excited to see what kind of results you achieve!!

#13 dostoyevsky

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 04:36 PM

These are adult stem cells right? Not from embryos?

Also, do you know what effect this would have on acne for those of us lucky enough to be suffering from scarring AND acne...



#14 LadyWillow

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 04:48 PM

I think the new stem cell technology is really great. My biology teacher was briefly explaining the new ways to get stem cells. I really don't know much about it but good luck with your experiment. I see this becoming a popular cosmetic procedure in the future. Once there is more research and stuff all this will probably come to the west. Anywho.. this sounds pretty awesome

#15 pb101

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 06:32 PM

Why are you posting this on the internet instead of going out there and doing it yourself and making mega cash?

#16 deadliest catch

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 03:01 PM

so what your saying is there already doing this in china??

#17 Bulgarian R.

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 04:41 PM

QUOTE (holdontohope @ Jan 15 2009, 11:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Great post, BRD!!!!! Always so hopeful and inspiring. You are a pioneer and an innovator. Thank you!!!

I have FIVE questions/points to make:

1.) Do you think this would be good to do in conjunction with TCA CROSS? Say, right after the cross is performed? I wouldn't do before, cuz I wouldn't want to destroy the cells with the acid.

2.) Is there any way you could come up with a "script" that people could follow - complete with what sources to present, etc. --- when introducing their derms and PSs to stem cells???? I think you'd do that brilliantly and it'd be a major help.

Things that you could include in this "script" are:

- An introductory paragraph that someone could memorize and follow exactly or follow loosely ... words that would help us intelligently and succinctly breach the topic with our doctors.
- a link to clinical sources that we could print up and bring to show
- a step by step guide of what the doctor would need to do if they wanted to go ahead and use stem cells on us.

I don't know. Something like that.

3.) Is there any way that we could have our stem cells isolated, then keep them and inject them ourselves periodically?

4.) How often can we do stem cell injections into the same area?

5.) Do you know the name and contact info of this Asian doc who's before/after stem cell pics you showed? If so, could you provide them?

THANKS!!!!!


Hey holdontohope,

Here are the answers:

1) I think stem cell injections would help with the healing after any procedure, including something as harsh as a TCA peel. Still, I am not a big fan of acids.

2) I could do this. However I see it more as a marketing challenge than a medical one. I know you're in marketing so perhaps we can work on this together. Are you interested? Maybe we could somehow incorporate this effort into your HopeSkin Foundation's activities.

3) Yes, but I don't think a doctor would help you with this. So essentially you'd have to do it by yourself, which is both dangerous and difficult especially if you're not trained in the field. Astonishing as it may be, there is a growing commmunity of so-called backyard biologists doing stuff like this in the comfort of their homes. Here's a link you'll find interesting: http://pimm.wordpres...acenta-at-home/

4) I don't see any problem with doing such injections often. However from what I gather the effects are cumulative and permenant when perceived in absense of the normal aging process.

5) I don't know his contact info. What I do know is that the experiments were conducted in Beijing in partnership with Japanese physicians/researchers.

See you,

BRD


QUOTE (Franklins Tower @ Jan 16 2009, 12:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks BRD, for always lifting our spirits and giving us hope....

I suggest that those interested in such treatment contact Allan Wu, MD (awu@MorrowInstitute.com)at the Morrow Institue, a cosmetic clinic outside of Palm Springs, CA. They have their own stem cell lab and may be open to use MSCs for acne scars.


Thanks for the info on Dr. Wu Franklin Towers. I think people will find it very useful.

#18 Bulgarian R.

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 04:49 PM

QUOTE (v_singh @ Jan 16 2009, 12:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i do not quite understand the whole stem cell thing, but if this stuff does work is it only temporary like botox. as in do you have to keep goining back for top ups to keep the results ?
Are you a doctor ?



Not like Botox at all. Results should be permenant and cumulative as the stem cells integrate themselves into the tissues surrounding the site of injection by differentiating into the appropriate cells (ie: fibroblasts). Of course if the doctor mishandles the stem cells and they are no longer viable, then one would not get permenant results.

Yes I am a research dermatologist.

QUOTE (Franklins Tower @ Jan 16 2009, 12:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
BRD, please do inform me if you know of any physician anywhere (preferably north america) who is using MSCs without recombining with fat.


Don't know one at the moment, but I can help you find one. I'll do my best to get you the right doc.

#19 Bulgarian R.

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 04:56 PM

QUOTE (v_singh @ Jan 16 2009, 12:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
BRD could you explain in more simple terms what this procedure is and how its done lol. i dont understand


Roughly speaking:

1) liposuction of fat from say your belly
2) adding a tinge of trypsin to the extracted fat (trypsin is an enzyme that helps break up the connective tissue between the various cell types)
3) putting this trypsin enhanced cellular mass in a medical centrifuge for a minute or so at low RPMs in order to minimize potential damage to the stem cells
4) extracting stem cells from the post centrifuged cellular layers (a consequence of the centrifugal force (measured in terms of gravitational (G) units) whereby heavier cells migrate to the bottom of the flask while lighter ones stay on top)
5) placing seperated/extracted stem cells in a stem cell growth solution inside of an incubator at 37 degrees celcius
6) adding some antibiotic to prevent bacterial ingrowths within the stem cell growth solution
7) waiting a few days/weeks before extracting cultured stem cells
8) injecting them into dermal deficits such as acne scars


VOILA! ... ... ... not so hard smile.gif

#20 Bulgarian R.

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 05:02 PM

QUOTE (just another1 @ Jan 16 2009, 12:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This post should give many here more than hope. It's spelling out what's to come.

BRD, you hit the nail on the head when you said " sometimes an extension of religious perspectives " in regards to why certain countries haven't advanced in the area of stem cell research.

America has just gone through one of the worst periods in our history under the fascist leadership of Bush/Cheney, along with their christofascist supporters. We lived through a period where, pharmacutical companies, conspired with government officials as well as physicians themselves to drain the wallets of average citizens. Ignorance reigned king here for eight long years.

Within days we will be heading in a totally new direction under president Barack Obama. With it, will come advances in many areas where we have fallen behind.

The information you listed here is very promising. I look forward to hearing more about it.


I'm glad you like the thread. Hopefully the US government will substantially increase the financing of the rising biotech sector, especially in regards to research involved in developing regenerative medicine, scarless healing technologies, etc... The US has the power to maximally accelerate the development of any breakthrough sciences/technologies...

QUOTE (EricB @ Jan 16 2009, 12:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wow, very interesting! thank you for your post BRD! I am very excited to see what kind of results you achieve!!


Glad you find it interesting. Do you know of any Swiss physicians who are getting into this?