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vitamin a needling

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#1 lamarr1986

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 06:58 PM

I want you ALL to begin using light therapy and dermaroller/needling. You can get yourself a whole "kit" for perhaps 750 dollars and you will get better results than anything else...

Here is a pic of my skin now

http://img81.imagesh...dsc00109pk1.jpg

What i have been doing for the past year is having dermaroller done every 6-8 weeks and and needling individual scars with 4mm diabetic 33guage needles. I use a 1mm stopper to prevent it penetrating th full 4 mm.

I then use terproline twice per day. My dual 660/880nm array from the LED man and my 96 led yellow array from the LED man. 5 mins with the dual array 3 mins with the yellow.

You will need EMLA for doing dermaroller at home, many people don;t realise ho agressive you need to be and waste their time rolling every day or every week. Every month would be the most i would ever consider if you are rolling properly.

Take your vitamin C aswell...

good luck guys, you can beat your scars just think outside the box. It is no coicidence that i have beaten so many skin issues. I try things that most haven't thought of or try it in an inovative way till i get the results i want.

Heres my semi comprehensive guide. I may add more to it later on...

Dermarollers and needles
1.5mm derma roller (2mm for advanced rollers and if you want to take a slight increase in risk of infection or other potential side effects) personally I feel the results from a 2mm roller are better and will be better than a 1.5mm roller for most, but I do believe there is a slight increase in risk of side effects, although this is minimal. I prefer the 3 line or 4 line rollers that you can get; they are easier to apply the right pressure for penetration and to get the correct penetration depth across the whole face.
For the more stubborn and deeper scars I recommend the BD Micro-Fine Pen Needle 31 G x 5mm. I used to recommend using stoppers with these, but if you are careful in not penetrating the full 5mm, making sure you use between 3-4mm and not directly in at 90degrees, but at angles so you don’t penetrate to the full depth then you should be fine. Practice this on your arm before hand ( I recommend practicing on the arm for all stages of needling including the topical anesthetic, use of Dermaroller etc.
To clean your rollers firstly dip the roller in 70% isopropyl alcohol for about 10-15 minutes, then dip in Hibicleanse for 5 minutes or so. Using one of the UV-C disinfection devices is also a good idea.

Skin Preparation
EMLA is to be used, under an occlusive dressing for at least 1 hr (Cling film or saran wrap for you Americans). I personally use a small home Dermaroller i.e. 0.2 mm needle length before i apply the EMLA to increase absorption. I think people should try with just the occlusion and EMLA first though, if you can tolerate the pain then don’t bother with the smaller roller before hand, this way less EMLA will be entering the blood stream.
For disinfection I use a combination of 70% isopropyl alcohol, and hibicleanse/hibiscrub.. To pre the skin, again a combination of isopropyl 70% wipes, then cleaning with hibiscrub for several minutes and rinse THOROUGHLY, should be sufficient.
I always keep a tube of Bactroban ointment handy for any potential breakouts or infections. The Hibicleanse can also be used as a cleanser for a few days before and after dermaroller/needling to help prevent breakouts. Don’t use hibiscrub or alcohol in the first few days post dermaroller or needling though.

Oral supplements
The two supplements I recommend are vitamin C, at least 1000mg daily preferably 2000mg for several (split this into several doses throughout the day) months post dermaroller/needling. Another good supplement is red wine/grape seed extract (iherb have a very good red wine extract by doctors best). A multivitamin can’t hurt but for those of you who have taken Accutane I would find a multivitamin WITHOUT vitamin A.

Topicals
Now everyone prefers different topical, people know my preference i.e. terproline. I think it is a very good topical and I will always recommend it till something better comes along. If your skin agrees with retionds you may like these, but I don’t recommend starting these at the same time as needling/Dermaroller until you know how your skin reacts. Don’t use topical Retinoids if you have taken accutane in the past few years, or until you know how your skin responds to topical Retinoids. Topical Vitamin A the same applies.
Topical vitamin C (ascorbic acid) is another good one which I like. You need a good 15 or 20% solution and it needs to be the right PH. Check up on these things.
Copper peptides I have tried and wasn’t a big fan of but they did seem to refine my pores slightly, I haven’t used long term but again some people really like them.
Keep topical simple, don’t use too many of them it will only confuse matters. Don’t start topical in the middle of starting needling or dermaroller.
If you are using a topical to keep your acne under control, then you should probably keep using it. I personally recommend light therapy if you have active acne though as it won’t irritate the skin like some topical can.

Light therapy

Now this is one of the most important stages. I recommend everyone use light therapy, a combination of yellow (590 nm) red (660nm) and infra red (880nm) is best. You can use each separately or a combination of each. Some people believe using each separately is best. I use the 660/990 together and the yellow separately.
For acne you need the blue frequency at or around 405-420nm. The Beauty skin device is very good for acne.
Every day for the first few weeks or every other day at least. You need to reach the correct level of energy (joules per cm squared) we aim to hit about 6 joules. So you need to keep the distance down to about an inch or so from the skin and use them for approximately 5 minutes per are if you are using the LED mans devices.
You need to read up on each of these topic areas, I can’t go into enough detail and there will always be questions or variables which you can generally find the answers to out there, by searching. I love giving advice to people but when the questions are easy to find the answer to and they are repeatedly continuously it get a bit annoying.


Hey guys,

Some of you may remember Bulgarian derm bringing up the point that some people have suffered things such as cardiac arrest from topical anesthetics such as Lidocaine. While these incidents are extremely unlikely, they are a rare possible risk.... I was reading an article earlier and it went along with my consensus that it is the higher concentrations of lidocaine e.g. 10% applied under occlusion that pose the problem.

EMLA does contain 2.5% lidocaine and 2.5% prilocaine. Now because i recommend people use EMLA i want to make a new recommendation for safety. Because we do this at home we don't have the supervision we would have in a hospital, so here is what i recommend we do from now on to minimise the chances even further.

The half life (time for the body to eliminate half of the drug from the body) of lidocaine is aprox 2hrs, prilocane is even shorter. SO as some of you have been doing i recommend you do one section of your face at a time in the same evening, leaving and hour or two in between application of the anesthetics.

E.g. at 5pm apply anesthetic to right cheek, leave under occlusion for an hour then clean and needle/dermaroll. Then at 7pm do the same on the right cheek, then 9pm do the forehead....


This way you will have aprox 1/3-1/2 of the peak plasma concentration you would have if you were to apply it all at once. As you all should know, chances of side effects decrease with a decrease in dose. So i am confident if we all do this we will never have any problems.

I hope you all take the time to read this.

#2 crzyakta

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 07:17 PM

Hey great work on your self treatment...do you have before pictures of your skin?

Also what type of scarring did you have prior, though the pic doesnt show close ups, it looks as though you have normal smooth skin...another question, any other topicals like retin-a or copper peptides?

#3 Starlite

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 09:47 PM

You're cute. : )

What was your scarring like before? Rolling, ice pick, moderate or light?

#4 tj101

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 02:18 AM

lamarr, where do you get the stoppers and lancets/needles?

That's sort of what I've been doing lately, using a dermaroller and needling individual scars with a tattoo needle.

#5 adella

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 05:38 AM

Well Lamarr what a very nice photo
you skin looks fabulous.
was it bad before??


#6 lamarr1986

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 06:03 AM

Lancets i can find for you, but the stoppers i get from my dad...hes a dentist.

#7 thelegend

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 06:10 AM

we need before pics...bc without them we have no clue what kind of improvement you really had.....and yeah when you roll your face you have to be pretty hardcore about it because you have to press down hard to get full penetration with the needles and do so in many different directions over and over again.....bc since the needles are spaced so far apart you are actually getting a very small area of penetration if your not actually picking up the roller and then sitting it back down on the skin and going over your face again....I just hope I havent over done it with the .75mm roller because my face looks like it has red tank tred tracks where I rolled so hard!!! I'm not having any pain from it though....but they have been there 48 hours

#8 lamarr1986

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 06:12 AM

These are the needles, they say 5mm but they measure 4mm and i use the stopper. Just make sure your not going the full 4mm and use them at an angle.


Here is a pic of what my skin was like AFTER a few sessions of dermaroller. I don't have any when my skin was at it's worst.

http://img141.images...02007007lk1.jpg

I didn't have proper ice picks but i did have some deep ish boxcars. If you needle them individually you can get up to 80-90% improvement.

The upper scar on my left cheek was actually pretty darm huge. Some of the lines were pretty deep aswell. I have both acne and other scars.

I was pretty ill when the photos were took. thanks to accutane. I really recommend against tane.

#9 lamarr1986

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 06:16 AM

QUOTE (thelegend @ Nov 26 2008, 01:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
we need before pics...bc without them we have no clue what kind of improvement you really had.....and yeah when you roll your face you have to be pretty hardcore about it because you have to press down hard to get full penetration with the needles and do so in many different directions over and over again.....bc since the needles are spaced so far apart you are actually getting a very small area of penetration if your not actually picking up the roller and then sitting it back down on the skin and going over your face again....I just hope I havent over done it with the .75mm roller because my face looks like it has red tank tred tracks where I rolled so hard!!! I'm not having any pain from it though....but they have been there 48 hours


The redness should fade by about the 7th day. This is what happens with me anyway.

#10 thelegend

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 06:17 AM

what are the advantages to the LEDs other than what the popular Red and Infrared offer

#11 lamarr1986

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 06:18 AM

The key with dermaroller and needling is to actually make sure you get this redness and red dots, they should last about 5 days atleast. When you expose they small blood clotts to the LED therapy you get biostimulation, which recruits many substances (stem cells especially) and upregulates a number of biological processes, your healing can be made as good as when you were a child.

#12 adella

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 06:22 AM

Thanks for the inpirational photots Lamarr.

Im getting right into my treatments, with a renewed positive outlook.

This time next year...i should be enjoying results!!!



#13 thelegend

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 06:23 AM

well here is my site that I am logging my progress with in pictures..I have pics of me after using the .75 roller....not the 2.0mm because I used it a few days before....do you think this is about what the bleeding should look like....I have pics of where I went hardcore on my face and bled a good bit more...when I post those maybe you can tell me if it appears as though I am doing it hardcore enough

http://www.pcbuilder...rmarolling.html


#14 lamarr1986

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 06:28 AM

Looks perfect bud, just like when i have a professional do it on me....

Don't be scared of the bleeding, just dont RIP through the skin, try and be smooth in your operation, pull the skin gently tight.

You have some good kits there, the YELLOW frequency ha provided me with some pretty dramatic improvements considering i havent rolled in months now.

the yellow frequency is very very good for fibroblast stimulation.

Also i recommend you get some bactroban ointment apply this about an hour after you have rolled. I do this to ensure no infections, just a one time application.

Remember your cleanlyness guys, dissinfect and re dissinfect.

When i am usign the needles i only actually penetrate the skin with them about 8-10 times then use a new one.

#15 lamarr1986

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 10:10 AM

QUOTE (thelegend @ Nov 26 2008, 01:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
well here is my site that I am logging my progress with in pictures..I have pics of me after using the .75 roller....not the 2.0mm because I used it a few days before....do you think this is about what the bleeding should look like....I have pics of where I went hardcore on my face and bled a good bit more...when I post those maybe you can tell me if it appears as though I am doing it hardcore enough

http://www.pcbuilder...rmarolling.html



Can i just say i think your using waaay to many things bud. All those oral products aren't needed. Just get your vitamin c twice per day. I'm not a fan of cps either tbh....

#16 thelegend

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 10:36 AM

those oral products arent for my acne scarring they are for my working out...they are vitamin A, B, ester-C,D, fish oil and some other supplements...I just listed them in case they may have some affect so I could log everything I was putting in my body

I was wondering if this was normal...I was very aggressive on my face the last time I rolled over 48 hours ago now...and it looks like I have tank tred tracks on my face...It doesnt hurt...its just odd and VERY noticable and eye catching

http://www.atwsports...tredtracksa.jpg

#17 patience28

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 11:02 AM

Lamar,

Can you give us some links to the best place to buy the LED lights?

Thanks

#18 munsoned

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 12:32 PM

I have very similiar scaring as you lamarr. I mean very similiar. I have also started derma rolling with a 1.5mm, light needling and glycolic acid peels at 25%. I cannot afford the led light. wish I could but I cant. Its hard to tell how much improvement you have made because one photo is to far away. But I will take your word that you have had great success and that is a great thing. this is some method you have put together.

Like I said I will not have the light in my routine which looks like a big loss for me. sad.gif But I cant let that get me down. I have to keep the mindset that I will have to be the guy who achieves results without it.

#19 pumpkin21

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 12:46 PM

lamaar where is good place to buy LED in UK or where did u get it from

#20 lamarr1986

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 12:50 PM

I will take a photo in the same lighting when i am back from uni.... You wont even see the scarring on camera anymore though.

The place i buy LED units from is the LED man.

I don't want to appear to be advertising him but he has been very good for me.

http://www.theledman.net/order.html




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