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#241 munsoned

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 11:42 AM

QUOTE (acne.orgmember @ Dec 6 2010, 11:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is my first "reply" on acne.org. I actually joined because of this thread.

First, I echo Nilou's sentiments re: munsoned. Thanks for sharing! It's rare that someone follows up on a promise. You promised you would document your progress and you have. Very much appreciated.

Thank you a.om..I would not say I was going to do something if I did not plan on doing it.

Second, I've just started using a 1.5mm derma roller, on rolling/depressed acne scars, in my temples/upper cheeks. I have some questions/observations which may be of interest and which anyone can answer...

1. Is it really necessary to draw blood?! I've seen videos of "doctors" drawing blood, but also read manufacturer/distributor suggestions that no blood should appear. You should simply get a pinkish hue. The suggestion being that more frequent rolling, without drawing blood, yields the same results over time.

I have heard the same thing a.om..I have even spoke to people who say they used the less aggressive approach and had very good improvements. Personally I have used a more aggressive approach to rupture blood vessels and cells to initiate that cascade of events which in sum is:
Phase I: inflammation, which starts immediately
after the injury
Phase II: proliferation (tissue formation), which
starts after about 5 days and lasts about 8 weeks
Phase III: tissue remodeling, from 8 weeks to
about 1 year

Check the dermarolling support thread at the top of the scar treatment home page. There are some in depth studies ect..you can read through to maybe help you determine what you feel is best. From my own research I determined the more aggressive approach was best.


2. Frequency of use? Perhaps that depends on how deep one goes, but I've seen estimates ranging from rolling 5 times a week, to rolling once every few months. I wish there was a more precise guideline.

I find when I roll/needle I see the best results by being patient and giving my self several months..

3. Post-roll cream? I've seen many suggestions. Some distributors suggest a cream with Vit C and E to stimulate collagen production. Others suggest a placenta cream (placenta being vitamin rich). Has anyone tried placenta cream with success?

I have used C serum. Others use terproline or copper peptides. C serum is easy on my skin so I stick with that.

4. What do you all make of the quality of the derma rollers? As you know, the prices vary considerably... from $10 out of China, up to hundreds of dollars. I wonder aloud if the cheap derma rollers are just as effective. I can't afford to buy and discard derma rollers like I would disposable razors.

I personally buy the some what cheaper models. However I get them here in the states not out of country. But certainly the higher quality rollers probably deliver the treatment a bit better. But like you, due to costs I stick with the cheaper models.

5. I'm just soaking my derma roller in rubbing alcohol for 5-10 mins post-roll. How are you folks disinfecting yours? And how often are you discarding them?


I basicly do the same thing. I let it soak for about 20/30m post roll then let it airdry and put it back in its case. I use my rollers as longas I possibly can. They eventually wear down andwhen that starts to happen I discard it and purchase another.


Cheers, Paul



#242 munsoned

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 06:29 PM

Update time

I recently needled and rolled..Needled each scar individually first followed by rolling. I had to treat a small area on the left side of my face and roughly 75% of my right. I also purchased some 50% MG TCA. I am going to spot treat a few scars in the next week..Scars that are seemingly resistant to needling/rolling. I am interested to see if the TCA can get these several scars moving along. Once I do that I probably won't be doing anything til spring other then using my led and giving my skin the time necessary to do what it has to do. Hopefully I have some more good news to report. I am sure I'll be around once and a while in the meantime. And any changes that occur I'll keep my log updated.



#243 acne.orgmember

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Posted 07 December 2010 - 11:44 PM

Thanks for your reply munsoned!

Your approach is probably better. I just don't know if I can bring myself to be that aggressive. So I may stick with the gentler approach.

I agree that it takes time. I've read a lot of comments, on various sites, where people want permanent results overnight. Drastic results require drastic procedures... like dermabrasion. I'd rather get results safely, over time.

I was VERY skeptical about derma rollers, but after one gentle rolling session the inflamation has mostly leveled my scars. I know it's not permanent. My scars will be visible again in a few days. But hopefully with continued rolling, the cream, and oral vit C + collagen supplements, I can get my skin leveled naturally.

Like munsoned, I'm in this for the long run. I literally just started rolling, yet I accept it will be years before I get permanent results. If I have to roll periodically for life, I will. Anything to avoid surgery.

If anyone is considering dermabrasion, please do your research. I'm not saying it's bad. For some with extreme scarring it may be required. But know that there can be complications. Many have posted their bad experiences online.

I will visit the threads you mentioned munsoned and check back periodically.

Wishing everyone success!!

#244 munsoned

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 01:00 PM

Did my first TCA spot treatment today on just 1 scar. My other scars I am considering using tca on were needled about 6 weeks ago and I am giving them more time to rebuild. If they don't show some progress after the last treatments then I will tca them as well. But for now I just treated what I consider my most stubborn scar. If it has improved it has been extremely minor improvements. I have 50% medical grade tca. And I am familiar with the treatment both pre and post and treated that 1 scar. It frosted up nicely and now it is just a matter of waiting to see how it turns out in the months to come and I will hope for the best.

Edited by munsoned, 11 December 2010 - 01:01 PM.


#245 joe peeps

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 03:46 PM

Hey M, I have these like little tiny divots on the sides of my neck. They are definitely not ice pics b/c they are not deep and they are not box cars either, just tiny little holes that I could stretch out somewhat easily. Do you think these will respond well to rolling?

#246 munsoned

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 09:52 PM

QUOTE (joe peeps @ Dec 11 2010, 04:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hey M, I have these like little tiny divots on the sides of my neck. They are definitely not ice pics b/c they are not deep and they are not box cars either, just tiny little holes that I could stretch out somewhat easily. Do you think these will respond well to rolling?


Joe, what are they from?It is possible rolling could help. I don't know how aggressive you can go on the side of your neck? Maybe aggressive enough though. Realy there is only one way to find out and that is by giving it a shot.

#247 joe peeps

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 01:22 AM

ya they are from teenage acne before i went on accutane. i am going to give them a shot, but i just don't have much confidence yet.

#248 Enlightened

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Posted 26 December 2010 - 07:27 AM

Thank you munsoned for this thread. My question is that i have about 15 ice pick scars on my right cheek and have brown skin that is very prone to hyperpigmentation, could you recommend what u think would be the best course of action to treat.
Morning
Paula's choice 1 step cleanser
Paula's choice 2%BHA liquid (leave for 3 mins and wash off)
Paula's choice 8%AHA gel (leave for 3 mins and wash off)
paula's choice HydraLight Moisture-Infusing Lotion
lily lolo mineral make up

Evening
Paula's choice 1 step cleanser
Paula's choice 2%BHA liquid (leave for 3 mins and wash off)
0.30 retinol cream (Neova) (on forehead cheeks and chin)
paula's choice HydraLight Moisture-Infusing Lotion (on nose around lips and eyes)

#249 acne.orgmember

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 01:30 PM

Hi Munsoned.

Just an FYI to you and the others, that I stopped derma rolling for now.

At first, as I note in an earlier post, I was very pleased. The derma rolling made my shallow scars disappear. But after a while, it stopped having an effect. My theory is, it was just inflammation from the rolling that would temporarily smooth my skin.

Admittedly, I never went as deep as you with the derma roller. I never really drew blood. But I never could find a good numbing agent for my skin. I tried ice one time, but it wasn't very effective for me.

So despite saying I would roll for life if need be, I've sort of given up on it. Once my skin started to tolerate the irritation I was doing to it, and the inflammation stopped, so did the smoother skin.

I'll probably wait to have laser treatment done. Or maybe microderm.

If I ever return to rolling, I will have to find a better way to numb my skin so that I can go deeper. It now seems to me that the only way this could possibly work is if the skin is penetrated deeply... under some form of injected or topical anesthetic. And even then, I'm skeptical now.

Perhaps prescription strength Lidocaine is the way to numb the skin. I don't know. But I would bet 99% of those using derma rollers don't go deep enough for it to have any sustainable effect. I was one of them.

Perhaps that's why some sites suggest it must be done by a dermatologist in a professional setting. I just couldn't do it myself.

Munsoned seems to be one person who is rolling deep. I will continue to check back to see his progress. I would appreciate any updates. I would be interested to know if your results are long lasting, did it completely smooth your skin, just how bad was your scarring before, and if you're still as positive about rolling as before.

Any numbing advice would also be appreciated.

Regards, Paul

#250 acne.orgmember

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 01:36 PM

I'm not munsoned, but I read that ice pick scars really need to be treated with punch excision. A dermatologist removes the scars and sews the skin back up. They're a small incisions, so I don't think there are any scars from the operation. Just my two cents. I think rolling might be effective for rolling/shallow scars (IF one can go deep enough). I can't see it working on icepick scars. Check with a dermatologist. Maybe there are other options.

#251 munsoned

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 06:23 PM

QUOTE (acne.orgmember @ Feb 6 2011, 01:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Munsoned.

Just an FYI to you and the others, that I stopped derma rolling for now.

At first, as I note in an earlier post, I was very pleased. The derma rolling made my shallow scars disappear. But after a while, it stopped having an effect. My theory is, it was just inflammation from the rolling that would temporarily smooth my skin.

Admittedly, I never went as deep as you with the derma roller. I never really drew blood. But I never could find a good numbing agent for my skin. I tried ice one time, but it wasn't very effective for me.

So despite saying I would roll for life if need be, I've sort of given up on it. Once my skin started to tolerate the irritation I was doing to it, and the inflammation stopped, so did the smoother skin.

I'll probably wait to have laser treatment done. Or maybe microderm.

If I ever return to rolling, I will have to find a better way to numb my skin so that I can go deeper. It now seems to me that the only way this could possibly work is if the skin is penetrated deeply... under some form of injected or topical anesthetic. And even then, I'm skeptical now.

Perhaps prescription strength Lidocaine is the way to numb the skin. I don't know. But I would bet 99% of those using derma rollers don't go deep enough for it to have any sustainable effect. I was one of them.

Perhaps that's why some sites suggest it must be done by a dermatologist in a professional setting. I just couldn't do it myself.

Munsoned seems to be one person who is rolling deep. I will continue to check back to see his progress. I would appreciate any updates. I would be interested to know if your results are long lasting, did it completely smooth your skin, just how bad was your scarring before, and if you're still as positive about rolling as before.

Any numbing advice would also be appreciated.

Regards, Paul


Paul I never used anything to numb my skin. I just went for it. What about the stuff lamarr used. I cannot think of the name off the top of my head? But if you check his thread he mentions it several times. But sorry to hear you had to stop. Its not easy and its not a miracle treatment. But I wish you all the best if you try another treatment.

#252 munsoned

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Posted 12 March 2011 - 06:39 PM

Yes I am still here..I have not rolled since whenever my last update was nor have I needled. I just recently did my first tca spot treatment with 50% tca. So I have kind of crossed over in this log from rolling to tca. Not to say I am done rolling/needling. I just felt with the lack of progress on certain scars I had to try something else. I will do one more tca before summer hits then that is it til fall because I am out doors alot in the summer so tca is a no go. I will likely do a good needling/roll once over the summer. But will worry about that in a few months. Right now I am hoping tca can help some of my worst scars that did not respond well to the needling/rolling efforts. Besides a big scar on my forehead and a few others here and there the worst of my skin problems left is a burn on the right side of my face. Not a chemical burn but a burn burn. And it left my skin a mess. Lots of scars in that area that are not even acne scars mostly but scars from the burn itself. Lots of pores in that area are a mess due to the burn. So its just a real mess. And that are has been very difficult to treat. But I am still trying and hoping tca can possibly help improve that area some what as well as a handful of other scars that did not respond well to rolling needling. So in the next 1-3 months I will post updates about my first tca treatment which I just recently did as well as another I plan on doing about the end of april. Hope all you guys are hanging in there and doing well.smile.gif

#253 acne.orgmember

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 12:29 AM

QUOTE (munsoned @ Mar 12 2011, 07:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes I am still here..I have not rolled since whenever my last update was nor have I needled. I just recently did my first tca spot treatment with 50% tca. So I have kind of crossed over in this log from rolling to tca. Not to say I am done rolling/needling. I just felt with the lack of progress on certain scars I had to try something else. I will do one more tca before summer hits then that is it til fall because I am out doors alot in the summer so tca is a no go. I will likely do a good needling/roll once over the summer. But will worry about that in a few months. Right now I am hoping tca can help some of my worst scars that did not respond well to the needling/rolling efforts. Besides a big scar on my forehead and a few others here and there the worst of my skin problems left is a burn on the right side of my face. Not a chemical burn but a burn burn. And it left my skin a mess. Lots of scars in that area that are not even acne scars mostly but scars from the burn itself. Lots of pores in that area are a mess due to the burn. So its just a real mess. And that are has been very difficult to treat. But I am still trying and hoping tca can possibly help improve that area some what as well as a handful of other scars that did not respond well to rolling needling. So in the next 1-3 months I will post updates about my first tca treatment which I just recently did as well as another I plan on doing about the end of april. Hope all you guys are hanging in there and doing well.smile.gif



Good luck with the tca. As you describe the scars from the sunburns, I imagine tca would really help. Use plenty of sunscreen! ; ) FYI, I just started rolling again. This time I'm taking a different approach. Last time I used a 1.5mm roller, but didn't apply much pressure. In fact, I'm pretty sure I was just rolling the needles over the top of the skin. Deafeating the whole point of needling! So I decided to step it down to a 1.0mm roller, but really roll aggessively. It went well. Some pain (no numbing lotions) but I could handle it. This time I heard the little "pop, pop, pop" of the needles pentrating the skin. I will follow each rolling with Vit C serum. Also, I will only roll perhaps once a month. What I've gathered online suggests that the skin needs time to heal from the rolling and it takes 4-6 weeks for the skin to heal and new collagen to form. I think these people who are rolling 5 times a week may be making a mistake... rolling over new collagen and using needles that are too long. I encourage anyone trying this to find a needle length they can tolerate. Minimum 1mm. Many use 1.5mm. I feel better with a 1.0mm as my scarring is most around my temples (thin skin and lots of nerves). Roll to the point of penetration of the skin. It may or may not bleed. From what I gather, bleeding is not necessary, but can occur. Roll only every 4-6 weeks. Munsoned gives a lot more time for recovery. Use Vit C serum, just as he does. Above all else be CAREFUL and BE PATIENT. It's not a quick fix and I honestly don't know if derma rolling provides lasting, long term, results. Concensus seems to be a 70-80% improvement. I don't know if munsoned would agree. Don't get too excited after your first roll, like I was. Inflammation will level out the scars, but expect them to return shortly after. But I'm hoping each time the scars return, they return a little less deep. Meaning, a 70-80% improvement over time. Will report back and will watch munsoned's progress also.

Edited by acne.orgmember, 13 March 2011 - 12:49 AM.


#254 acne.orgmember

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 01:02 AM

QUOTE (munsoned @ Mar 12 2011, 07:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yes I am still here..I have not rolled since whenever my last update was nor have I needled. I just recently did my first tca spot treatment with 50% tca. So I have kind of crossed over in this log from rolling to tca. Not to say I am done rolling/needling. I just felt with the lack of progress on certain scars I had to try something else. I will do one more tca before summer hits then that is it til fall because I am out doors alot in the summer so tca is a no go. I will likely do a good needling/roll once over the summer. But will worry about that in a few months. Right now I am hoping tca can help some of my worst scars that did not respond well to the needling/rolling efforts. Besides a big scar on my forehead and a few others here and there the worst of my skin problems left is a burn on the right side of my face. Not a chemical burn but a burn burn. And it left my skin a mess. Lots of scars in that area that are not even acne scars mostly but scars from the burn itself. Lots of pores in that area are a mess due to the burn. So its just a real mess. And that are has been very difficult to treat. But I am still trying and hoping tca can possibly help improve that area some what as well as a handful of other scars that did not respond well to rolling needling. So in the next 1-3 months I will post updates about my first tca treatment which I just recently did as well as another I plan on doing about the end of april. Hope all you guys are hanging in there and doing well.smile.gif



By the way, I should add that musoned had it right all along. He fully explained the need to penetrate the epidermis and cause trauma. He explained why he only rolls every few months. I must admit I wanted fast results. So I rolled completely wrong, many times a week. But all that did was irritate my skin and cause it to become wrinkled and leathery. So, as stated above, I'm taking musoned's approach of actual penetration, followed by adequate recovery time. By the way, my reading suggests 1.0mm is the ideal needle length to address facial scarring. 1.5mm is the ideal length to address body scarring, and 2, 2.5, 3mm seems like it's mostly for doctor use. I would not suggest using anything more than 1.5mm on the face. Especially in the temple regions. I've gone with 1mm. Anything less than 1mm... e.g. 0.75, 0.50, 0.25 seems inadequate to address scarring. 0.5mm is fine for anti-aging, wrinkles, etc., but not enough penetration for scarring. Just my opinion based on what I've read. Good luck all.

#255 munsoned

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 12:40 PM

QUOTE (acne.orgmember @ Mar 13 2011, 12:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Good luck with the tca. As you describe the scars from the sunburns, I imagine tca would really help. Use plenty of sunscreen! ; ) FYI, I just started rolling again. This time I'm taking a different approach. Last time I used a 1.5mm roller, but didn't apply much pressure. In fact, I'm pretty sure I was just rolling the needles over the top of the skin. Deafeating the whole point of needling! So I decided to step it down to a 1.0mm roller, but really roll aggessively. It went well. Some pain (no numbing lotions) but I could handle it. This time I heard the little "pop, pop, pop" of the needles pentrating the skin. I will follow each rolling with Vit C serum. Also, I will only roll perhaps once a month. What I've gathered online suggests that the skin needs time to heal from the rolling and it takes 4-6 weeks for the skin to heal and new collagen to form. I think these people who are rolling 5 times a week may be making a mistake... rolling over new collagen and using needles that are too long. I encourage anyone trying this to find a needle length they can tolerate. Minimum 1mm. Many use 1.5mm. I feel better with a 1.0mm as my scarring is most around my temples (thin skin and lots of nerves). Roll to the point of penetration of the skin. It may or may not bleed. From what I gather, bleeding is not necessary, but can occur. Roll only every 4-6 weeks. Munsoned gives a lot more time for recovery. Use Vit C serum, just as he does. Above all else be CAREFUL and BE PATIENT. It's not a quick fix and I honestly don't know if derma rolling provides lasting, long term, results. Concensus seems to be a 70-80% improvement. I don't know if munsoned would agree. Don't get too excited after your first roll, like I was. Inflammation will level out the scars, but expect them to return shortly after. But I'm hoping each time the scars return, they return a little less deep. Meaning, a 70-80% improvement over time. Will report back and will watch munsoned's progress also.


Paul I am glad to hear you will keep going. The truth is its not a miracle and you have to take what you can get. We all have high hopes any time we do any treatment because we all want the best possible results. And I think the truth is unless we see drastic results it can be a let down. But that does not mean you did not achieve improvements. I have never viewed the percent of improvement like some do. I don't view it as an overall percent of improvement but each scar as individuals. Some scars I have achieved a very high percent of improvement and others very low. And the ones with low percent of improvements is why I am trying tca. I will continue to roll/needling these stubborn scars/areas as well. But for now the focus is on tca. And the scars are acually not from sunburn but rather getting burned as in Second degree burn (deep partial thickness) Also forgot to mention which I have earlier in this log that I have a big scar from where I had excision done many years ago. The Dr. did a terrible job and left me with a far worse scar then I began with. Rolling has helped improve that but it is still very noticeable and I think I just have to live with it due to the nature of the scar. But like you said, you just have to be patient and keep trying. Some scars may not respond well, but some will. And for me I have come to view each scar as its own tough battle I must fight. Improving just one deep scar significantly is a big accomplishment in my opinion.

#256 acne.orgmember

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 02:12 PM

QUOTE (munsoned @ Mar 13 2011, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Paul I am glad to hear you will keep going. The truth is its not a miracle and you have to take what you can get. We all have high hopes any time we do any treatment because we all want the best possible results. And I think the truth is unless we see drastic results it can be a let down. But that does not mean you did not achieve improvements. I have never viewed the percent of improvement like some do. I don't view it as an overall percent of improvement but each scar as individuals. Some scars I have achieved a very high percent of improvement and others very low. And the ones with low percent of improvements is why I am trying tca. I will continue to roll/needling these stubborn scars/areas as well. But for now the focus is on tca. And the scars are acually not from sunburn but rather getting burned as in Second degree burn (deep partial thickness) Also forgot to mention which I have earlier in this log that I have a big scar from where I had excision done many years ago. The Dr. did a terrible job and left me with a far worse scar then I began with. Rolling has helped improve that but it is still very noticeable and I think I just have to live with it due to the nature of the scar. But like you said, you just have to be patient and keep trying. Some scars may not respond well, but some will. And for me I have come to view each scar as its own tough battle I must fight. Improving just one deep scar significantly is a big accomplishment in my opinion.



I agree with you. Using different methods... rolling, needling, tca, etc., is probably not a bad idea. As you suggest, some scars may respond differently to other methods. I'm going to stick with the 1mm derma roller for now, going deep just once a month, followed by Vit C serum, and report back.

Speaking of other methods, what's your opinion of dermabrasion and Fraxel? I consulted with a cosmetic surgeon. Microdermabrasion I was told would do nothing. Scars are too deep. Dermabrasion carries with it certain risks and is expensive. Fraxel sounds great, but is also expensive and many report it does not work as well as derma rolling. You may have spoken of this earlier, but what's your opinion of these two methods? Both of which I can't afford right now anyway.

Here's the kicker, the doctor's licensed aestician, who does all the microderm and spa treatments for the office (it's a very fancy place), admitted to me that, while they don't offer it, derma rolling works!!! I was shocked. I fully expected her to tell me it doesn't work, so as to convince me to do an expensive procedure. But she had high ethics, she was very sweet and she admitted that derma rolling works similar to Fraxel. Same concept of stimulating collagen production, just using a different method. This is a lady who has worked for many high-end skin care companies, such as La Roche. Maybe she was just being nice. Maybe she sensed I couldn't afford expensive options, so she wanted to give me some hope. But I think she was just being honest. Even if her honestly might prompt me to not use her doctor.

So that was interesting.

One final thought. I don't know how your scarring compares to mine. It may be better. It may be worse. But as far as my scarring goes, I'm trying to change my thinking. I don't mean to be insensitive to women here, but scars on men seem to be perceived differently than scars on women. If a man was handsome before, scars can make him more "ruggedly handsome".

Personally, I hate my scars. But I've come to realize two things... 1. They look far worse to me than they do to others. 2. Some women just don't seem to mind. Some may even like it. Let's face it, women are far more accepting of flaws in men than they are of flaws in themselves. Society expects women to be flawless... perfect. Women use all kinds of makeup, extensions, etc. to achieve perfection. But the same is not expected of men. It's an unfair double-standard, but it's in my favor.

So I'm trying to accept that I will always be scarred, to some extent, and that's OK. If I can get some measure of improvement, I'll be happy. I don't need 100% improvement. Nor does any procedure boast 100% improvement. Not even Fraxel or dermabrasion.

So I'll keep rolling, but my new attitude may make the biggest difference.

To any ladies out there, I don't mean to depress you. You ladies must be well aware of the double-standard I refer to. My best friend's daughter is just 15 years old. She's absolutely gorgeous, but she's obsessed with even the smallest flaw. She's already into makeup, fancy clothes, etc.. From a young age, women are judged based on their looks. Far more so than men. I think beauty is beauty. Eva Mendes would still be hot with a little scarring. But for men, like munsoned and myself, flaws are even more accepted.

#257 munsoned

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 09:53 AM

QUOTE (acne.orgmember @ Mar 13 2011, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree with you. Using different methods... rolling, needling, tca, etc., is probably not a bad idea. As you suggest, some scars may respond differently to other methods. I'm going to stick with the 1mm derma roller for now, going deep just once a month, followed by Vit C serum, and report back.

Speaking of other methods, what's your opinion of dermabrasion and Fraxel? I consulted with a cosmetic surgeon. Microdermabrasion I was told would do nothing. Scars are too deep. Dermabrasion carries with it certain risks and is expensive. Fraxel sounds great, but is also expensive and many report it does not work as well as derma rolling. You may have spoken of this earlier, but what's your opinion of these two methods? Both of which I can't afford right now anyway.

Here's the kicker, the doctor's licensed aestician, who does all the microderm and spa treatments for the office (it's a very fancy place), admitted to me that, while they don't offer it, derma rolling works!!! I was shocked. I fully expected her to tell me it doesn't work, so as to convince me to do an expensive procedure. But she had high ethics, she was very sweet and she admitted that derma rolling works similar to Fraxel. Same concept of stimulating collagen production, just using a different method. This is a lady who has worked for many high-end skin care companies, such as La Roche. Maybe she was just being nice. Maybe she sensed I couldn't afford expensive options, so she wanted to give me some hope. But I think she was just being honest. Even if her honestly might prompt me to not use her doctor.

So that was interesting.

One final thought. I don't know how your scarring compares to mine. It may be better. It may be worse. But as far as my scarring goes, I'm trying to change my thinking. I don't mean to be insensitive to women here, but scars on men seem to be perceived differently than scars on women. If a man was handsome before, scars can make him more "ruggedly handsome".

Personally, I hate my scars. But I've come to realize two things... 1. They look far worse to me than they do to others. 2. Some women just don't seem to mind. Some may even like it. Let's face it, women are far more accepting of flaws in men than they are of flaws in themselves. Society expects women to be flawless... perfect. Women use all kinds of makeup, extensions, etc. to achieve perfection. But the same is not expected of men. It's an unfair double-standard, but it's in my favor.

So I'm trying to accept that I will always be scarred, to some extent, and that's OK. If I can get some measure of improvement, I'll be happy. I don't need 100% improvement. Nor does any procedure boast 100% improvement. Not even Fraxel or dermabrasion.

So I'll keep rolling, but my new attitude may make the biggest difference.

To any ladies out there, I don't mean to depress you. You ladies must be well aware of the double-standard I refer to. My best friend's daughter is just 15 years old. She's absolutely gorgeous, but she's obsessed with even the smallest flaw. She's already into makeup, fancy clothes, etc.. From a young age, women are judged based on their looks. Far more so than men. I think beauty is beauty. Eva Mendes would still be hot with a little scarring. But for men, like munsoned and myself, flaws are even more accepted.


I have never had an laser treatments done so I am probably not the best person to ask about that. I have had microderm done. About 5/6 treatments and it was just not aggressive enough. Rolling is more aggressive and it is effective. But its not a miracle and its a long process because scars are extremely difficult to treat. Some more then others. And I think its great you are not just focusing on treating your scars but working on dealing with them. I know how difficult that is. The bottom line is they are a part of life and we can't change that completely.

#258 PAUL L

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 11:35 PM

Hi Munsoned & all,

I've dipped in and out of this log over the last year or so and found it very informative. I'd previously had a couple of non ablative fractionalised laser treatments before starting Dermaroller. I only had 2 professional Dermaroller treatments, the last being over 12 months ago. Since then I've had no further treatments and have been only been using my red led on and off.

I'm considering my next move, in even recent weeks and months I've noticed some changes to my scars, I suppose I'm still experiencing collagen production & remodeling. I would say my scarring is somewhat worse than before my treatments, I've noticed some slightly raised or plumped areas near or surrounding my scars which makes the contrast greater and in certain lighting the depressed scars more visible. I'm curious if this is simply part of the remodeling process and if I continue with treatments will it even itself out.

I'd be interested to hear anyones thoughts and if anyone had similar experiences.

Thanks
Paul

#259 munsoned

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 08:55 AM

QUOTE (PAUL L @ Mar 14 2011, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Munsoned & all,

I've dipped in and out of this log over the last year or so and found it very informative. I'd previously had a couple of non ablative fractionalised laser treatments before starting Dermaroller. I only had 2 professional Dermaroller treatments, the last being over 12 months ago. Since then I've had no further treatments and have been only been using my red led on and off.

I'm considering my next move, in even recent weeks and months I've noticed some changes to my scars, I suppose I'm still experiencing collagen production & remodeling. I would say my scarring is somewhat worse than before my treatments, I've noticed some slightly raised or plumped areas near or surrounding my scars which makes the contrast greater and in certain lighting the depressed scars more visible. I'm curious if this is simply part of the remodeling process and if I continue with treatments will it even itself out.

I'd be interested to hear anyones thoughts and if anyone had similar experiences.

Thanks
Paul


Paul, I have not had any issues like that myself so not sure what to tell you?

#260 munsoned

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Posted 16 May 2011 - 09:18 AM

Figure its time for another update..I did my second tca treatment about a 3 weeks/month ago so its going to be another month or maybe two before I can update how it goes. But I have seen a couple scars show improvement thus far from the first tca treatment. And those scars had been very stubborn so its definitely a positive to see them finally show improvement. I kind of wish I had been cycling between rolling/needling and tca from the get go as it looks like it would have moved things along quicker for atleast a couple scars so far. I will not be doing tca again til earliest fall. I am out of individual needles and plan on purchasing some soon and I will likely do 1 needle/roll treatment over the summer. I will only be rolling my right side and likely needle one scar on my forehead and maybe 2/3 on my left side. The forehead scar will depend on how it responds to the latest tca treatment. I will update my progress from the tca within a month or so. Hope you all are hanging in there.smile.gif