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Vitamin A & vitamin D >> Accutane (SUCCESS!)

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the reason why they created accutane was because it was considered a safer alternative to high dose vitamin a, with less side effects. whether this is true i dont know but thats what ive read.

No, Accutane (Isotretinoin) was originally developed as a chemotherapy drug.

During the chemotherapy trials doctors noticed patients' acne clearing.

And because they didn't make enough money with it as a cancer drug, they said what the fuck! We should sell this shit as an acne drug!

It's fucking genius! God bless them all!

yes i believe this story is closer to the truth although ive heard both storys, and i dont remember where i heard them.

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It's funny, this topic is a very natural approach to acne (and safe if done properly) yet gets so few replies?

Seriously, these two vitamins (in sufficient quantities) will CURE your acne. No blackheads, oil, or pimples. I don't want to sound like I'm promoting a product or anything, but there should be more replies than this.

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It's funny, this topic is a very natural approach to acne (and safe if done properly) yet gets so few replies?

Seriously, these two vitamins (in sufficient quantities) will CURE your acne. No blackheads, oil, or pimples. I don't want to sound like I'm promoting a product or anything, but there should be more replies than this.

thats the beauty of the mind, it self censors and filters out things that seem unimportant, yet may be immensly important. Its how existing"knowledge" can keep you from gaining new knowledge.

you see it and say oh that "is" that, and they are certain of it and continue to look over it, dismissing it as if they knew what it was all about. Its keeps the mind going in a stagnant circle just desiring to confirm that which you already "know". And intellectually you make very little progress. I also like to call this concept, being certain about what is possible, you can never be certain about what is 100% possible as you do not know everything nor the position of every atom in the universe, you only are highly certain what is probable and your idea of what is probable is dependant on what you usually see happen, yet you could not have possibly seen it all yet, so what you think is probable, is subjective to your experiance, and that is all you can account for.

So even though what you are claiming seems pretty reasonable and logical, ill have to admit personally im still a little uncertain about the safety of vitamin a, due to my conditioning which is sometimes more powerful then logic. It would be kind of crazy to say that acne could just be induced by a vitamin a&d deficiency but that would seem easy to prove and support with blood tests. But we all know accutane is derived from vitamin a and as long as you can find a way to tolerate the high doses, perhaps in conjunction with vitamin d, it could be just as effective as accutane.

You simply have to take some pictures of your face if the results have been that dramatic, or communicate more effectively how safe this actually is and why. You did post a study and i have looked for some info on my own and found out that your claims have a very high degree of possible truth, at least as far as taking vitamin d with vit a being safer then vitamin a alone. whether or not it will cure your acne, im still fairly uncertain, but i have even read claims about how high dose vitamin d has been tried for acne treatment, so im still pretty open to the possiblity.

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1: Exp Dermatol. 2007 Jul;16(7):618-25. Links

Vitamin D and the skin: an ancient friend, revisited.Reichrath J.

Klinik für Dermatologie, Venerologie und Allergologie, Universitätsklinikum des Saarlandes, Homburg/Saar, Germany. [email protected]

Most vertebrates need vitamin D to develop and maintain a healthy mineralized skeleton. However, 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 [1,25(OH)(2)D(3)], the biologically active vitamin D metabolite, exerts a multitude of important physiological effects independent from the regulation of calcium and bone metabolism. We know today that the skin has a unique role in the human body's vitamin D endocrine system. It is the only site of vitamin D photosynthesis, and has therefore a central role in obtaining a sufficient vitamin D status. Additionally, the skin has the capacity to synthesize the biologically active vitamin D metabolite 1,25(OH)(2)D(3), and represents an important target tissue for 1,25(OH)(2)D(3). In keratinocytes and other cell types, 1,25(OH)(2)D(3) regulates growth and differentiation. Consequently, vitamin D analogues have been introduced for the treatment of the hyperproliferative skin disease psoriasis. Recently, sebocytes were identified as 1,25(OH)(2)D(3)-responsive target cells, indicating that vitamin D analogues may be effective in the treatment of acne. Other new functions of vitamin D analogues include profound effects on the immune system as well as in various tissues protection against cancer and other diseases, including autoimmune and infectious diseases. It can be speculated that the investigation of biological effects of vitamin D analogues will lead to new therapeutic applications that, besides cancer prevention, may include the prevention and treatment of infectious as well as of inflammatory skin diseases. Additionally, it can be assumed that dermatological recommendations on sun protection and health campaigns for skin cancer prevention will have to be re-evaluated to guarantee a sufficient vitamin D status.

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thats the beauty of the mind, it self censors and filters out things that seem unimportant, yet may be immensly important. Its how existing"knowledge" can keep you from gaining new knowledge.

you see it and say oh that "is" that, and they are certain of it and continue to look over it, dismissing it as if they knew what it was all about. Its keeps the mind going in a stagnant circle just desiring to confirm that which you already "know". And intellectually you make very little progress. I also like to call this concept, being certain about what is possible, you can never be certain about what is 100% possible as you do not know everything nor the position of every atom in the universe, you only are highly certain what is probable and your idea of what is probable is dependant on what you usually see happen, yet you could not have possibly seen it all yet, so what you think is probable, is subjective to your experiance, and that is all you can account for.

I know that it's hard to break "tradition" and that "existing" knowledge says vitamin A is harmful past 10,000 IU/day (via retinol). But at the same time there is existing knowledge that A LOT of vitamin A is useful and even vital. But what a lot is depends on who you ask. The daily dose of vitamin A should be at least 25,000 IU in pre-formed retinol. I don't know everything about every atom, nor do I want to, but I don't like staying dumb. I try to learn as much as I can.

So even though what you are claiming seems pretty reasonable and logical, ill have to admit personally im still a little uncertain about the safety of vitamin a, due to my conditioning which is sometimes more powerful then logic. It would be kind of crazy to say that acne could just be induced by a vitamin a&d deficiency but that would seem easy to prove and support with blood tests. But we all know accutane is derived from vitamin a and as long as you can find a way to tolerate the high doses, perhaps in conjunction with vitamin d, it could be just as effective as accutane.

Vitamin A and Vitamin D are synergistic with each other. They both play a role in acne, though high doses of each (without high doses of the other) can cure acne...but at a cost to your health. But combined they're really powerful. Vitamin A is safe alone, usually about 100,000 IU/day for many many months without ill effects.

You simply have to take some pictures of your face if the results have been that dramatic, or communicate more effectively how safe this actually is and why. You did post a study and i have looked for some info on my own and found out that your claims have a very high degree of possible truth, at least as far as taking vitamin d with vit a being safer then vitamin a alone. whether or not it will cure your acne, im still fairly uncertain, but i have even read claims about how high dose vitamin d has been tried for acne treatment, so im still pretty open to the possiblity.

Honestly if you guys could see my face, you'd do it too. I don't have a digital camera and the quality of my cell phone's camera is very poor. But the doses of vitamin A and D must be done properly. Here's another study I posted before:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender...mp;blobtype=pdf

It was from 1937, relatively large doses (the doses used were not that big actually since 14,000 IU viosterol is comparable to about 5000 IU cholecalciferol) were used to cure acne. Here's an article from time magazine dated 1943:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...,850340,00.html

These articles were posted well before accutane ever existed. We never needed Accutane, it's just the drug companies' way of selling us more drugs. You just posted an article about vitamin D and acne and I posted two articles on both vitamins that combat acne. If both of them combat acne alone, imagine what they would do together.

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I wonder why cod liver oil didn't help you

what kind of vit A and D are you taking?

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I wonder why cod liver oil didn't help you

what kind of vit A and D are you taking?

I'm sure cod liver oil can help, if you take a lot of it...like 10 tablespoons (30 teaspoons). While cod liver oil is the best source of vitamin A and D, gram for gram, it wouldn't help too much if you're deficient in both vitamins. It be enough to maintain, but not enough to help you recover your stores.

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thats the beauty of the mind, it self censors and filters out things that seem unimportant, yet may be immensly important. Its how existing"knowledge" can keep you from gaining new knowledge.

you see it and say oh that "is" that, and they are certain of it and continue to look over it, dismissing it as if they knew what it was all about. Its keeps the mind going in a stagnant circle just desiring to confirm that which you already "know". And intellectually you make very little progress. I also like to call this concept, being certain about what is possible, you can never be certain about what is 100% possible as you do not know everything nor the position of every atom in the universe, you only are highly certain what is probable and your idea of what is probable is dependant on what you usually see happen, yet you could not have possibly seen it all yet, so what you think is probable, is subjective to your experiance, and that is all you can account for.

I know that it's hard to break "tradition" and that "existing" knowledge says vitamin A is harmful past 10,000 IU/day (via retinol). But at the same time there is existing knowledge that A LOT of vitamin A is useful and even vital. But what a lot is depends on who you ask. The daily dose of vitamin A should be at least 25,000 IU in pre-formed retinol. I don't know everything about every atom, nor do I want to, but I don't like staying dumb. I try to learn as much as I can.

So even though what you are claiming seems pretty reasonable and logical, ill have to admit personally im still a little uncertain about the safety of vitamin a, due to my conditioning which is sometimes more powerful then logic. It would be kind of crazy to say that acne could just be induced by a vitamin a&d deficiency but that would seem easy to prove and support with blood tests. But we all know accutane is derived from vitamin a and as long as you can find a way to tolerate the high doses, perhaps in conjunction with vitamin d, it could be just as effective as accutane.

Vitamin A and Vitamin D are synergistic with each other. They both play a role in acne, though high doses of each (without high doses of the other) can cure acne...but at a cost to your health. But combined they're really powerful. Vitamin A is safe alone, usually about 100,000 IU/day for many many months without ill effects.

You simply have to take some pictures of your face if the results have been that dramatic, or communicate more effectively how safe this actually is and why. You did post a study and i have looked for some info on my own and found out that your claims have a very high degree of possible truth, at least as far as taking vitamin d with vit a being safer then vitamin a alone. whether or not it will cure your acne, im still fairly uncertain, but i have even read claims about how high dose vitamin d has been tried for acne treatment, so im still pretty open to the possiblity.

Honestly if you guys could see my face, you'd do it too. I don't have a digital camera and the quality of my cell phone's camera is very poor. But the doses of vitamin A and D must be done properly. Here's another study I posted before:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender...mp;blobtype=pdf

It was from 1937, relatively large doses (the doses used were not that big actually since 14,000 IU viosterol is comparable to about 5000 IU cholecalciferol) were used to cure acne. Here's an article from time magazine dated 1943:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...,850340,00.html

These articles were posted well before accutane ever existed. We never needed Accutane, it's just the drug companies' way of selling us more drugs. You just posted an article about vitamin D and acne and I posted two articles on both vitamins that combat acne. If both of them combat acne alone, imagine what they would do together.

Its crazy to hear just high dose vitamin d being effective for acne, it seems vitamin a and d have some weird relationship to acne, what comes to mind is the immune system since both vitamins play major roles in the immune system and acne is also related to the immune system, although im not exactly sure of the exact mechanisms, still very interesting.

its funny about the drug companies, its all about manipulating a certain enzyme such as cox or lox inhibitors for inflammation, when all you may need to do is increase gla and epa in your diet which will compete with Arachidonic acid for the cox and lox enzymes to produce eicosanoids, the same shit is also in the auto industry every shop is used to scamming their customers because they know they dont know shit about auto mechanics, especially at the dealership where they really try to gain your blind trust, that shit never worked on me and i make every mechanic nervous and upset that i just dont take his word for it. Politics are also the same way, you got mcain saying this and that about himself, knowing nobody has followed his career closely over time, and will not research every thing he claims he is or has done, so they just say what they can get away with to get what they want and thats that. Truly its no surprise once you learn everyone is looking out for their own best interests its only natural though. And usually its the dollar people become slaves to over time that makes them give up their soul, mortgage payment ugghh!! college loans ugggh!!! 3 kids ugghh!!!! ok its either lie to get more or struggle, ok 99.9% of people will choose to get as much as they can get for themselves and throw all their decency and honesty out the window. Of course the world isnt this shitty!! but it does happen more often then you would like to admit. From my first hand experiance with the medical industry, most docs want cool jobs and arent really into healing people or have a passion for solving peoples problems ive been to doctors that just spit out bullshit for answers and i leave thinking wow is this the real world??? did i just pay for that?? man i should be a doctor if its that fuckin easy.

Ya blah blah blah, that will be 150.00 please!!! of course my experiances cannot represent the whole of what exists out there there are probably really smart and great docs out there that have a passion for what they do, the trick is finding them!!

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Serum levels of vitamin D metabolites were determined in 11 patients treated for cystic acne with a four-month course of isotretinoin (Roaccutane). The levels were measured before treatment and after two months of medication. We found a significant fall in the level of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D (p less than 0.01) and a significant increase in the molar ratio of 24, 25-dihydroxyvitamin D to 25-hydroxyvitamin D (p less than 0.05). No significant changes were found for the vitamin D metabolites 25-hydroxyvitamin D or 24,25-dihydroxy-vitamin D, for serum calcium, phosphorus, alkaline phosphatase or parathyroid hormone. Our data indicate early changes in the metabolism of vitamin D in patients on retinoid treatment.

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I think you are on to something Dingo: Nature never lies, A and D are put together for a reason. I'm just flustered why megadoses are needed.

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Dingo:

http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/vf/labels/015605HB.pdf

&

http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/vf/labels/000382HB.pdf

look good?

Would be taking:

20x Halibut Liver oil = 100,000 IU Vitamin A (Retinol) & 1,700 IU Vitamin D3

9x Vitamin D = 9000 IU Vitamin D3

Totals: 100,000 IU Vitamin A (Retinol) & 10,700 IU Vitamin D (Cholecalciferol)

What other supplements would you recommend in the way of minerals (and quantities)?

edit: For me (65kg) 260,000 IU or more daily for 6months+ will result in toxicity so I think 100,000 IU is safe. For acute toxicity i'd have to take a single ingestion of 1,625,000 IU :D.

But gee, 29 capsules/day that's more pills than I was popping on B5; which didn't work btw, or well maybe it had delayed affect - skin on my face has been pretty clear now for a year or so - I took B5 about 2years ago (or more!) for about 3 months though. I'm not sure if it helped at all. My skin is a little less greasy these days I guess... but i'm 19 now so hormones are settling down a bit I guess.

I only really get troublesome acne now on my chest/back (worst)/neck. My face has enlarged pores and some blackheads though. Maybe this regimen will help, we'll see eh. I'll have to borrow my mum's digicam and make a log :).

Oh btw, about acne and dioxins and lead. I read somewhere that acne was prehistoric man's 'plooms' (like a bird's pretty feathers). So we'd all be dashingly attractive with our colourful lesions! Can't remember where I read that or if there's any truth in it though :D.

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I think you are on to something Dingo: Nature never lies, A and D are put together for a reason. I'm just flustered why megadoses are needed.

perhaps they are not and it all depends on the severity, try a low dose and see what happens.

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I think you are on to something Dingo: Nature never lies, A and D are put together for a reason. I'm just flustered why megadoses are needed.

20,000 IU of vitamin D/day is really not a megadose since your body makes that much with 20-30 minutes of direct mid-day summer sun exposed to 90% of your body's skin. It just seems high because the RDA (400 IU) is so drastically low.

Your body can handle a lot of vitamin A with adequete vitamin D. It should be noted I took 700,000 IU (or 4.9 million IU in a week) per day without ill effects because I took about 80,000 IU of vitamin D. What may seem like megadoses to many are really just normal doses physiologically.

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My question is mainly about vitamin a:

If you don't eat liver, how in the heck are you supposed to get dosages above 200,000 naturally? I'm sure there are many people that don't eat that amount of vitamin a per day.

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My question is mainly about vitamin a:

If you don't eat liver, how in the heck are you supposed to get dosages above 200,000 naturally? I'm sure there are many people that don't eat that amount of vitamin a per day.

yes i was wondering the same thing, so i went to nutrition data.com and found out that non fortified dairy products were the most likely source for natural a&d but for whatever reason it has become normal to add more a&d, even though naturally its already in there in decent quantitys but no where near what is considered a megadose, unless you are drinking 20 gallons of milk per day and 2 pounds of butter.

Seeing as though i quit drinking milk a long time ago, that makes me a little concerned, although i take a multivitamin, the multi vitamin is only meant to fill the gaps in nutrition on a day to day basis, not replace a good diet. Oh the mistake we make, perhaps ill switch fish oil to cod liver oil now, or start drinking milk again.

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My question is mainly about vitamin a:

If you don't eat liver, how in the heck are you supposed to get dosages above 200,000 naturally? I'm sure there are many people that don't eat that amount of vitamin a per day.

Liver is very high in vitamin A, like one 3oz serving gives about 25000 to 40000 IU. It also depends on the liver of the animal too. But when our ancestors ate, they didn't just eat the muscle meats (high in protein and saturated fat, but not too much else), they ate everything practically.

But 200,000 IU/day isn't very realistic. If you eat an entire animal's liver you would pretty much store quite a bit of vitamin A for weeks to months. That's probably over 1 million IU for a few weeks (until you found another animal to kill and eat). So it's not like they ate it everyday. They just ate a ton of vitamin A in a few sittings.

But dairy products are good sources since they are easier to absorb (since dairy fat contains lecithin).

yes i was wondering the same thing, so i went to nutrition data.com and found out that non fortified dairy products were the most likely source for natural a&d but for whatever reason it has become normal to add more a&d, even though naturally its already in there in decent quantitys but no where near what is considered a megadose, unless you are drinking 20 gallons of milk per day and 2 pounds of butter.

Seeing as though i quit drinking milk a long time ago, that makes me a little concerned, although i take a multivitamin, the multi vitamin is only meant to fill the gaps in nutrition on a day to day basis, not replace a good diet. Oh the mistake we make, perhaps ill switch fish oil to cod liver oil now, or start drinking milk again.

Switching to cod liver oil is a better alternative since it's less likely to go rancid (even in your body...in fact cod liver oil is the only source of omega-3's that do not raise peroxidation levels). If you do drink milk, drink whole milk.

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The tissue behind the eyeball is also a very rich source of Vitamin A, and you can bet that humans would have eaten that, as well as the liver. Fish eggs are also a very rich source, and fish eggs are eaten by pregnant and lactating women in traditional cultures to maintain fertility.

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My question is mainly about vitamin a:

If you don't eat liver, how in the heck are you supposed to get dosages above 200,000 naturally? I'm sure there are many people that don't eat that amount of vitamin a per day.

Liver is very high in vitamin A, like one 3oz serving gives about 25000 to 40000 IU. It also depends on the liver of the animal too. But when our ancestors ate, they didn't just eat the muscle meats (high in protein and saturated fat, but not too much else), they ate everything practically.

But 200,000 IU/day isn't very realistic. If you eat an entire animal's liver you would pretty much store quite a bit of vitamin A for weeks to months. That's probably over 1 million IU for a few weeks (until you found another animal to kill and eat). So it's not like they ate it everyday. They just ate a ton of vitamin A in a few sittings.

But dairy products are good sources since they are easier to absorb (since dairy fat contains lecithin).

yes i was wondering the same thing, so i went to nutrition data.com and found out that non fortified dairy products were the most likely source for natural a&d but for whatever reason it has become normal to add more a&d, even though naturally its already in there in decent quantitys but no where near what is considered a megadose, unless you are drinking 20 gallons of milk per day and 2 pounds of butter.

Seeing as though i quit drinking milk a long time ago, that makes me a little concerned, although i take a multivitamin, the multi vitamin is only meant to fill the gaps in nutrition on a day to day basis, not replace a good diet. Oh the mistake we make, perhaps ill switch fish oil to cod liver oil now, or start drinking milk again.

Switching to cod liver oil is a better alternative since it's less likely to go rancid (even in your body...in fact cod liver oil is the only source of omega-3's that do not raise peroxidation levels). If you do drink milk, drink whole milk.

cool, do you remember what reason does it not raise peroxidation levels??? what is the logic?

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the vitamin content

My question is mainly about vitamin a:

If you don't eat liver, how in the heck are you supposed to get dosages above 200,000 naturally? I'm sure there are many people that don't eat that amount of vitamin a per day.

Liver is very high in vitamin A, like one 3oz serving gives about 25000 to 40000 IU. It also depends on the liver of the animal too. But when our ancestors ate, they didn't just eat the muscle meats (high in protein and saturated fat, but not too much else), they ate everything practically.

But 200,000 IU/day isn't very realistic. If you eat an entire animal's liver you would pretty much store quite a bit of vitamin A for weeks to months. That's probably over 1 million IU for a few weeks (until you found another animal to kill and eat). So it's not like they ate it everyday. They just ate a ton of vitamin A in a few sittings.

But dairy products are good sources since they are easier to absorb (since dairy fat contains lecithin).

yes i was wondering the same thing, so i went to nutrition data.com and found out that non fortified dairy products were the most likely source for natural a&d but for whatever reason it has become normal to add more a&d, even though naturally its already in there in decent quantitys but no where near what is considered a megadose, unless you are drinking 20 gallons of milk per day and 2 pounds of butter.

Seeing as though i quit drinking milk a long time ago, that makes me a little concerned, although i take a multivitamin, the multi vitamin is only meant to fill the gaps in nutrition on a day to day basis, not replace a good diet. Oh the mistake we make, perhaps ill switch fish oil to cod liver oil now, or start drinking milk again.

Switching to cod liver oil is a better alternative since it's less likely to go rancid (even in your body...in fact cod liver oil is the only source of omega-3's that do not raise peroxidation levels). If you do drink milk, drink whole milk.

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My order should arrive on monday, i'll be keeping a log for y'all :). Going to plan on having a liver test @ 2months and 4months. So, we'll see how it goes :). My plan so far is:

Week 1-3:

50,000 IU Vitamin A (10x Halibut Oil Capsules)

5,850 IU Vitamin D (5x Vitamin D3 Capsules)

Weeks 4-8:

100,000 IU Vitamin A (20x Halibut Oil Capsules)

10,700 IU Vitamin D (9x Vitamin D3 Capsules)

Weeks 9-20:

150,000 IU Vitamin A (30x Halibut Oil Capsules)

15,550 IU Vitamin D (13x Vitamin D3 Capsules)

Depending on what liver test @ 2months says will decide if I continue on 150,000 IU, stay at 100,000 IU or stop entirely :P. Though i'm hopeful - vitamin A without vitamin D requiring 260,000 IU for 4-6months continuous use to reach toxic levels for my body weight.

I've tried to plan it similar to an accutane course - 3weeks on lower dose (what would be 0.5mg/kg for accutane, roughly 30mg) then follow up with higher dose (1mg/kg accutane, roughly 60mg), and eventually reach the highest dose (1.5mg/kg accutane, roughly 90mg) in order to hopefully avoid:

In the past, the full 1 mg/kg per day dose was started initially, but most clinicians now advocate beginning therapy with a reduced dose of no more than 0.5 mg/kg per day, and frequently even as low as 10-20 mg per day for at least the first 3 weeks. Starting slowly helps prevent the occasional severe flare that may accompany abrupt full-dose onset. Dr. Shalita begins counting the 20-week course only after he has reached the full 1 mg/kg dose.

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Keeping an online log may be futile, as moderators have shut them down in the past... because they "spread dangerous ideas to others" etc. You can try anyway tho, or just keep updates in this thread.

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Oh, a quick question - should I be taking these with a meal or on empty stomach? I'd been planning on taking half with breakfast (6-10am) half with aternoon meal (4-7pm). But just thought about this, don't know which would be best!

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Keeping an online log may be futile, as moderators have shut them down in the past... because they "spread dangerous ideas to others" etc. You can try anyway tho, or just keep updates in this thread.

ive never seen this happen, has this really happend before?? and for the reasons you claim it has??? i find this website to be very open, i post the craziest stuff here sometimes, and never got any heat about it, it seems improbable that they would shut down a log on vitamin a&d.

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I did not mean to insult the moderators here at all. I think the website is great. But yes, if they think a thread promotes dangerous activity they will shut it down. I was reading some guys log last night about megadosing vitamin A (not much different from this thread) and it was closed by staff relatively quickly. Not saying its right or wrong, just saying it happened.

Adam 15, you should be taking them with meals, preferably meals high in fat. This is critical for maximizing absorption of these vitamins. (they are fat soluble)

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