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Dingo Jellybean

Vitamin A & vitamin D >> Accutane (SUCCESS!)

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There was some hoopla a few months ago when I made a thread entitled "vitamn d for acne" or something like that. I posted a small blog written in 1937 on how high doses of vitamin D over a period of months improved or cured acne.

I've taken vitamin A since April 1st 2008 and vitamin D April 27th 2008. I've taken both before in the form of cod liver oil (providing about 14000 IU of vit A and 1400 IU of vit D per tablespoon or 14g) but it never really cured my acne...just kept it at bay.

My acne was mostly large pores and oily skin. Pimples were not large in numbers.

It's been almost 5 months since I took large doses of vitamin A and 4 months since I took large doses of vitamin D. I really didn't see real results until maybe 3.5 to 4 months into the regimen. How much did I take? I started off on 100,000 IU of vitamin A/day and worked my way up to 700,000 IU/day then settled back down to 200,000 IU/day. But I never took less than 100,000 IU. I don't think the large doses speed up the process (just because you give someone more money, doesn't mean they work faster either, there's a limit as to how fast someone or something goes) but it does allow the body (namely the liver) to store more of it. On vitamin D I took 4000 IU for every 100,000 IU of vitamin A that I took then bumped it up to around 60,000 IU/day (I increased my D dosage each time my A dosage went up). I took vitamin K2 (up to 25mg/day...which is A LOT) as well during the time, but not sure what effect that had to do with it.

I've seen people on Accutane but never seem to get rid of large pores and blackheads and they still have oily skin. But there are some people who've taken Accutane and have all those problems disappear.

Just to let you guys know, I've never taken Accutane...so my results aren't bias (whatever you want to call bias). Some people questioned my sanity on taking such massive amounts of vitamins, but are they really massive or just massive in comparison to the paltry limits set by the FDA (or USDA or whatever)? Your body can produce 10's of thousands of IUs of vitamin D in a matter of minutes (about 10 to 40, depending on your skin tone), yet no one has ever died from the "massive" vitamin D produced from your skin. Yet it seems massive because the RDA is 400 IU, so something like 20,000 IU is "massive"...even though your body was meant to create this much. There have been cultures and even people today who consumed massive amounts of vitamin A with no ill effects. 5000 IU, the RDA, is barely what your body uses in a day anyways...and most people consume far less of this. I'm talking about retinol, pure natural vitamin A. Nothing synthetic (no palmitate or acetate) and nothing pro-vitamin A (no carotenes). Vitamin D must be consumed as D3 and nothing else. Even people with liver disfunction has the ability to hydroxylate cholecalciferol...it's one of the first and last functions of the liver even when it is damaged.

As far as symptoms goes, chelitis (chap lips) is the only symptom that I've had. And remember I took 730,000 IU of vitamin A along with 63,000 IU of vitamin D at the same time with 25mg of vitamin K2.

You generally can use any brand of vitamin A and D, just make sure they are in the form of retinol (usually fish liver) and cholecalciferol (D3). I use Carlson's only because their softgels are very small and very easy to swallow (I took 20 of the vitamin D3 softgels and 12 of the vitamin A softgels all in one swallow...it is THAT easy) and because they are SOY FREE. I'm allergic to soy anyways. Even though the oil used is not what I recommend (safflower and sunflower), the amount of the oil used is so little and the benefits of vitamin A and D3 are so monumental that it far outweighs the oils being used in the supplements.

Of course I also take a lot of minerals in the form of dairy and meat (I take a separate magnesium supplement). I don't believe that vitamins alone can do the trick, but if they can they don't do the trick well. Just make sure to get enough of the three main minerals: calcium, magnesium, and phosphorus. Milk contains plenty of phosphorus (heck, most foods do) and calcium. You can get magnesium from whole grains and vegetables but you have to deal with phytates and oxalates that hampers absorption.

There's much more than Vitamin D and A does than just promote skin health...but I always believed that there have never been a serious use for any drug, prescription or OTC, and that acne is really a result of our environment. Lack of sun during peak UVB hours, bad food choices like hydrogenated oils and MSG, and just exposure to excessive lead and dioxins.

So what's my advice on how to start off? 100,000 IU/day of vitamin A and 10,000 IU of vitamin D/day for 5 months should pretty much get rid of your acne or calm it down at least 80%. Taking more won't speed up the process though. But it does allow your body to store more for later. A maintenence dose after that would probably be like 30,000 to 50,000 IU vitamin A and 4000 to 7000 IU vitamin D.

My pores have shrunk, my skin is FAR LESS oily, and I have FAR FEWER blackheads. My eczema has really calmed down too and so has my psoriasis. It sounds far-fetched and it sounds like I'm BSing but I've been to these forums for almost 3 years now (look at my profile). Do you really think I would lie to any of you? I'd have nothing to gain (and evidence to back me up if you want it). Seriously it's mega cheap. A bottle of carlson's 25,000 IU vitamin A (from cod liver oil - 250 softgels) is like $15...that's a 2 month supply. A bottle of carlson's 2,000 IU vitamin D (from cholecalciferol - 360 softgels) is about $11. That's a 2.5 month supply if you take 100,000 IU and 10,000 IU of vitamin A and D respectively. A grand total of $13/month (minus shipping)!!!!

I'm not trying to promote the carlson's brand, I gave reasons why I prefer it. Any other brand would work too. My local safeway sells 100 of 1000 IU vitamin D3 tablets for $2!!!!

If you're not into supplements you can always take cod liver oil (like 2 tablespoons) and liverwurst and get some sun during 10AM to 3PM for 40 minutes. It's not too hard to get 100,000 IU of vitamin A through diet. You can be creative and make fried rice from liverwurst (it's really tasty). It'll kind of look like dirty rice, but eh.

Lastly, consume mostly saturated fat. It helps your body use vitamin D and omega 3 fatty acids. Avoid vegetable oils at all cost! A slip up here and there won't hurt, but don't make them part of your regimen...it'll only slow your progress.

Any questions, please post them here...I want everyone to see the answers to the questions.


- My website to help people with acne. Generally for those mild to moderate.


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What kind of acne did you have? (cysts, whiteheads, blackheads,etc) and did you suffer from really oily skin or dry flakey skin with oilyness to it (if that makes sense). Thank you for posting this.

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The fact the results are so similar to that of accutane is, for me, concerning. Personally, I wouldn't advocate this, but to each their own.


Males - GET AN ELECTRIC RAZOR, so important

Experimenting with:

-no added/un-natural sugar

-no grains bar rice cakes, gluten-free bread & buckwheat pancakes, of which in moderation. Aim for <50g carbs/day

-intermittent fasting and eating smaller amounts more frequently

-daily exercise

What breaks me out: some pastuerised dairy, gluten, SUGAR, probably starch and lectins, sleep deprivation, lack of sun, stress, some other b*tch of a thing I'm yet to discover

Status: at least 90% - very, very close


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the reason why they created accutane was because it was considered a safer alternative to high dose vitamin a, with less side effects. whether this is true i dont know but thats what ive read.

For the past week ive been taking massive doses of sublingual b12 and vitamin b complex and just about all my anxiety and depression has disappeared and ive got tons more energy and my eyesight has improved greatly not like i dont need my contacts or anything its just that colors are brighter and my sight is sharper. But their isnt any toxicity for b vitamins all i can say is that sometimes its harder to focus that is all im a little jittery but ill taper off as my reserves build up, i find it interesting that this has happend.

You should post pics of your skin.


#1.critical nutritional issues- b12(three forms exist), Calcium(yogurt, cheese or calcium phosphate supps) and vitamin d(sun or supps not to exceed 1000 iu). heme iron-most absorbable from meat only, clams are high. these are the most difficult vitamins to get and absorb. All others or about the same in difficulty in absorption. MAgnesium in our food supply is generally low as well, try natural calm supps.

#2 Fats- monounsaturated should dominate(olives), followed by polyunsaturated plant sources(nuts) but not if you have acne. the health benefits of fish oil and fish are controversial and i dont consume them due to mercury contamination and immune supression avoid processed fats if possible.

#3 Protein/amino acids- dairy and eggs best sources for tryptophan and methionine which convert to powerful antioxidants melatonin and glutathione.

#4 Carotenoids- alpha- beta carotene, beta cryptoxanthin, lutein zeaxanthin, astaxanthin. these are vital to human nutrition, carrots, butternut squash, pumpkin, chili pepper and cayenne pepper are the best sources.

#5 Regularity-BM at least once a day, Moist, large stools, 1 piece ideal, no maldigestion, no floating stools indicative of maldigested fat. HOW- insoluble fiber- wheat and cooked vegetables. soluble fiber-oats/ good bacteria ferment soluble fiber making short chain fatty acids that inhibit pathogens.

#6 Circadian cycles-Light, get up with the sun, and expose your entire body to it. darkness-melatonin is released upon the sensing of absolute darkness. sleep in a pitch black room, try to ensure 10 hours total darkness, wear sunglasses before bed. do not eat too late at night.

#7 Desirable physiological states(positive moods/emotions) do precisely what you like and what feels good to you, but not regardless of consequences, just from a perspective that, you own your life, and can determine precisely what you do with it and need not answer or ask of permission from anyone,achieving maximum autonomy and self government.


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interesting what are other good sources of retinol?


Current Regimen:

Morning:

Water

50 mg zinc chelate

Rainbow Multi Vitamin

Emergen-C 1000 mg vitamin c + b vitamins and minerals + a few more more later on

Night:

Water

acv

Eating:

Wheat free, lower carb, lower protein meals.

avoiding: dairy, inflammatory foods.

eating fruits alone or with other fast digesting things

low sugar

Status:

Went on minocycline + benzoly peroxide for less then one month to clear up alot of existing spots. left with a few red bumps and and red marks fading fast. Blackheads along nose, anyone know how to make the nose less oily? seems to be the only place on my face I get bothered by the oil still


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Dingo, please post before and after pics of your skin.

Here it is a interesting opinion from shelley from askshelley.com on the vit. A&D that everybody who wish to try this high-doses method should consider:

A&D: I prefer that people take real fats rather than synthetic fat-soluble vitamins. Fat-soluble vitamins are amazingly complex and the synthetic versions don't have the same richness. Better to take pharmeceutical grade or otherwise safe form of Cod liver oil for A/D supplementation. Also, synthetic versions tend to overdose people on A, which is very hard on the kidneys. See FAQ for list of super-foods.

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This is dangerous. Don't do it...

You need a doctor to supervise high doses of vitamin A.

Go look up Kligman 1981.

Kligman observed severe psychological effects of acne when his patient self-adminstered high doses of vitamin A and ended up killing himself.

You might as well go on accutane.

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I take cod liver oil but does that contain enough vitamin d? It has 5ug however much that is. Could i also take a vitamin d supplement that contains about 2500 mg as well as the cod liver oil?


You Just Have To Look Through The Dark

To See The Glimmers

[sig-img:412]

My Holistic Progress

6 Liver flushes performed so far in 2009


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yeah, i tried high doses of vit a a few years ago because i thought it was the similar to accutane. my liver and spleen almost exploded. this is not a good idea.

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yeah, i tried high doses of vit a a few years ago because i thought it was the similar to accutane. my liver and spleen almost exploded. this is not a good idea.

Yeah Im the one who "argued" with Dingo before. I dont think its safe. You might as well take Accutane even though its synthetic because at least you have medical supervision.


My skin is clear for the most part. I do have some blackheads and I also break out a bit along my jawline. It's definitely not perfect, but I guess I shouldn't complain. I'm resigned to the slight problem I have with blackheads, but I would like to see less on the jawline (probably hormonal?). My skin is very pale and my pimples leave little red marks that last quite a while, so it can look like I have more pimples than I actually do (which is frustrating).


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your body has a system to actually regulate the formation of retinol from beta carotene, this system is in place for a reason, because retinol in high doses aint good for you.


#1.critical nutritional issues- b12(three forms exist), Calcium(yogurt, cheese or calcium phosphate supps) and vitamin d(sun or supps not to exceed 1000 iu). heme iron-most absorbable from meat only, clams are high. these are the most difficult vitamins to get and absorb. All others or about the same in difficulty in absorption. MAgnesium in our food supply is generally low as well, try natural calm supps.

#2 Fats- monounsaturated should dominate(olives), followed by polyunsaturated plant sources(nuts) but not if you have acne. the health benefits of fish oil and fish are controversial and i dont consume them due to mercury contamination and immune supression avoid processed fats if possible.

#3 Protein/amino acids- dairy and eggs best sources for tryptophan and methionine which convert to powerful antioxidants melatonin and glutathione.

#4 Carotenoids- alpha- beta carotene, beta cryptoxanthin, lutein zeaxanthin, astaxanthin. these are vital to human nutrition, carrots, butternut squash, pumpkin, chili pepper and cayenne pepper are the best sources.

#5 Regularity-BM at least once a day, Moist, large stools, 1 piece ideal, no maldigestion, no floating stools indicative of maldigested fat. HOW- insoluble fiber- wheat and cooked vegetables. soluble fiber-oats/ good bacteria ferment soluble fiber making short chain fatty acids that inhibit pathogens.

#6 Circadian cycles-Light, get up with the sun, and expose your entire body to it. darkness-melatonin is released upon the sensing of absolute darkness. sleep in a pitch black room, try to ensure 10 hours total darkness, wear sunglasses before bed. do not eat too late at night.

#7 Desirable physiological states(positive moods/emotions) do precisely what you like and what feels good to you, but not regardless of consequences, just from a perspective that, you own your life, and can determine precisely what you do with it and need not answer or ask of permission from anyone,achieving maximum autonomy and self government.


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What kind of acne did you have? (cysts, whiteheads, blackheads,etc) and did you suffer from really oily skin or dry flakey skin with oilyness to it (if that makes sense). Thank you for posting this.

Mostly large pores, really oily skin, whiteheads and blackheads along with cystic pimples. I never had dry skin from the vitamin A though.

yeah, i tried high doses of vit a a few years ago because i thought it was the similar to accutane. my liver and spleen almost exploded. this is not a good idea.

I think you're exaggerating. Without proper doses of vitamin D, vitamin A becomes toxic. There are studies to back me up on this.

I take cod liver oil but does that contain enough vitamin d? It has 5ug however much that is. Could i also take a vitamin d supplement that contains about 2500 mg as well as the cod liver oil?

5ug is far too little. I don't think that's a good enough cod liver oil if it contains that little...per teaspoon. 1mg of vitamin D is 40,000 IU. So 200IU (5ug) per teaspoon isn't that much. Most brands will contain 475IU per teaspoon or 1425IU per tablespoon. 2500mg of vitamin D is A LOT. That's 10 million IU!!! I think you mean 2500 IU, not mg. Your body can tolerate 50,000 IU of real vitamin D (D3) for months with ill effects. But I suggest a lower dose or keeping a decent supply of vitamin A (around 250,000 IU) if you are taking such doses of vitamin D.

Dingo, please post before and after pics of your skin.

Here it is a interesting opinion from shelley from askshelley.com on the vit. A&D that everybody who wish to try this high-doses method should consider:

A&D: I prefer that people take real fats rather than synthetic fat-soluble vitamins. Fat-soluble vitamins are amazingly complex and the synthetic versions don't have the same richness. Better to take pharmeceutical grade or otherwise safe form of Cod liver oil for A/D supplementation. Also, synthetic versions tend to overdose people on A, which is very hard on the kidneys. See FAQ for list of super-foods.

I personally don't have a digital camera. So I don't have pictures or the ability to post them online. I know it would be much easier to believe me if I did, but I wish I could. But regardless, Shelley is right about the natural fat-soluable vitamins versus the synthetic kind. They are amazingly complex and have a wide range of functions throughout the body.

This is dangerous. Don't do it...

You need a doctor to supervise high doses of vitamin A.

Go look up Kligman 1981.

Kligman observed severe psychological effects of acne when his patient self-adminstered high doses of vitamin A and ended up killing himself.

You might as well go on accutane.

Vitamin A in massive doses depletes the body of vitamin D. I never take vitamin A without vitamin D. There are studies that affirm what I've said. Vitamin A toxicity is more so vitamin D deficiency...and low vitamin D levels has been linked to mental disorders.

www.vitamindcouncil.org

Yeah Im the one who "argued" with Dingo before. I dont think its safe. You might as well take Accutane even though its synthetic because at least you have medical supervision.

Real vitamin A is a series of esters, not just isolated 13-cis-retinoic acid. Real vitamin A is much more complex than Accutane. But additionally vitamin D is depleted when vitamin A is administered and vice versa. I never take vitamin A without vitamin D. Taking vitamin A without vitamin D will lead to toxicity, but when taking both in proper amounts toxicity never occurs.

your body has a system to actually regulate the formation of retinol from beta carotene, this system is in place for a reason, because retinol in high doses aint good for you.

I don't want to sound rude, but you're wrong. People think that carotenes are converted to retinol only when needed. But in reality your body very poorly converts carotenes into retinol. Even in the best of health your body would convert 6 units of carotene into 1 unit of retinol...and some researches suggest this ratio is even lower. Those with diabetes and other health disfunctions will make much less retinol than 6 to 1. Additionally carotenes aren't absorbed as easily as retinol, which makes obtaining adequete retinol from carotenes even more difficult. So the reason why your body's retinol stores don't raise even when you ingest a lot of carotene is not because your body says "I've had enough for all my needs" but because the body is so inefficient in converting carotenes to retinol.


- My website to help people with acne. Generally for those mild to moderate.


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The agenda against retinol needs to end...I don't necessarily advocate megadoses of retinol but there is absolutely no reason to fear retinol from natural food sources.

All the studies that conclude that Vitamin A is bad for you use synthetic Vitamin A; they don't take any other factors into account; or they don't let the study participants supplement Vitamin D, which is important. Vitamin A and Vitamin D should always be in balance in each other, and of course megadosing Vitamin A by itself will impair Vitamin D status and cause side effects.

Vitamin A from cod liver oil, which is also rich in Vitamin D, is virtually harmless.


Clear for 8+ months now through striving for optimal fitness levels, stress levels, sleep, nutrient density in my body, and an overall holistic lifestyle approach.

Diet (I stick to this as much as I can): eggs; meat; poultry; wild-caught seafood; vegetables; fat sources from coconut oil, olive oil, and butter; fruit as I crave it; tea; and purified water. I buy organic and/or pastured foods as I reasonably can, but I think that it's the type of foods you eat, and not the quality of food (within reason, of course) that most determines how healthy you will be.

I highly recommend green smoothies as nutrition powerhouses. They are good on so many levels.

Now experimenting with a higher proportion of legumes, nuts, and seeds in my diet.

I eat absolutely no gluten. I limit intake of all grains, but up to two servings of non-glutenous grain a day is fine. I avoid all added sugar--high fructose corn syrup, sugar, honey, etc. I stay away from soybean oil, canola oil, sunflower oil, and other oils not named olive or coconut. I base my diet off of whole, unprocessed foods, and I prepare them in healthful, delicious ways.

Daily exercise. Sunlight whenever possible.

Supplements: Currently? None. Supplements that have helped in the past (and I can personally recommend) are fish oil, zinc, apple cider vinegar, Vitamin D.


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There is definitely nothing bad about retinol. But I think the implications of megadosing could be disatrous if everyone jumps on this bandwagon.

Dingo, can you show me the study where vitamin a toxicity is prevented by vitamin D?

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Megadosing any fat soluble vitamin, including A, even with D, is not necessarily safe. It could be harmful, even deadly. It could also be incredibly good for you, if you are deficient, which many, many people are. Do your own research, use at your own risk. Case closed.

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your body has a system to actually regulate the formation of retinol from beta carotene, this system is in place for a reason, because retinol in high doses aint good for you.

I don't want to sound rude, but you're wrong. People think that carotenes are converted to retinol only when needed. But in reality your body very poorly converts carotenes into retinol. Even in the best of health your body would convert 6 units of carotene into 1 unit of retinol...and some researches suggest this ratio is even lower. Those with diabetes and other health disfunctions will make much less retinol than 6 to 1. Additionally carotenes aren't absorbed as easily as retinol, which makes obtaining adequete retinol from carotenes even more difficult. So the reason why your body's retinol stores don't raise even when you ingest a lot of carotene is not because your body says "I've had enough for all my needs" but because the body is so inefficient in converting carotenes to retinol.

im not entirely wrong when i say vitamin a in high doses isnt good for you, but if you want to say that vitamin a in high doses when combined with vitamin d is safe®, then i am open to considering this possibility to be true, And its interesting for me to consider this possibility, please elaborate on why this is the case.

you really should show a pic tho.

There is definitely nothing bad about retinol. But I think the implications of megadosing could be disatrous if everyone jumps on this bandwagon.

Dingo, can you show me the study where vitamin a toxicity is prevented by vitamin D?

im also interested.


#1.critical nutritional issues- b12(three forms exist), Calcium(yogurt, cheese or calcium phosphate supps) and vitamin d(sun or supps not to exceed 1000 iu). heme iron-most absorbable from meat only, clams are high. these are the most difficult vitamins to get and absorb. All others or about the same in difficulty in absorption. MAgnesium in our food supply is generally low as well, try natural calm supps.

#2 Fats- monounsaturated should dominate(olives), followed by polyunsaturated plant sources(nuts) but not if you have acne. the health benefits of fish oil and fish are controversial and i dont consume them due to mercury contamination and immune supression avoid processed fats if possible.

#3 Protein/amino acids- dairy and eggs best sources for tryptophan and methionine which convert to powerful antioxidants melatonin and glutathione.

#4 Carotenoids- alpha- beta carotene, beta cryptoxanthin, lutein zeaxanthin, astaxanthin. these are vital to human nutrition, carrots, butternut squash, pumpkin, chili pepper and cayenne pepper are the best sources.

#5 Regularity-BM at least once a day, Moist, large stools, 1 piece ideal, no maldigestion, no floating stools indicative of maldigested fat. HOW- insoluble fiber- wheat and cooked vegetables. soluble fiber-oats/ good bacteria ferment soluble fiber making short chain fatty acids that inhibit pathogens.

#6 Circadian cycles-Light, get up with the sun, and expose your entire body to it. darkness-melatonin is released upon the sensing of absolute darkness. sleep in a pitch black room, try to ensure 10 hours total darkness, wear sunglasses before bed. do not eat too late at night.

#7 Desirable physiological states(positive moods/emotions) do precisely what you like and what feels good to you, but not regardless of consequences, just from a perspective that, you own your life, and can determine precisely what you do with it and need not answer or ask of permission from anyone,achieving maximum autonomy and self government.


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here is a quote from http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/

"The skin produces approximately 20,000 IU vitamin D in response 20–30 minutes summer sun exposure—100 times more than the US government's recommendation of 200 IU per day!

There are 3 ways for adults to insure adequate levels of vitamin D:

take 5,000 IU per day for three months, then obtain a 25-hydroxyvitamin D test. Adjust your dosage so that blood levels are between 50–80 ng/mL (or 125–200 nM/L) year around."

5,000 IU per day for three months seems like alot, I guess take the rda recommendation with a grain of salt after all it is most likely based on old research, avoid the rda dogma. I am becoming more convinced that in modern day society, our vitamin needs can get pretty high, ive been megadosing on vitamin b as i have just been through alot of stress for the past 8 months, so far my depression is almost non existent and my anxiety is pretty much faded as well, also my resistence to stress has increased and my heart rate stays very stable where it used to increase when i was the least bit anxious, my eyesight is way sharper too.


#1.critical nutritional issues- b12(three forms exist), Calcium(yogurt, cheese or calcium phosphate supps) and vitamin d(sun or supps not to exceed 1000 iu). heme iron-most absorbable from meat only, clams are high. these are the most difficult vitamins to get and absorb. All others or about the same in difficulty in absorption. MAgnesium in our food supply is generally low as well, try natural calm supps.

#2 Fats- monounsaturated should dominate(olives), followed by polyunsaturated plant sources(nuts) but not if you have acne. the health benefits of fish oil and fish are controversial and i dont consume them due to mercury contamination and immune supression avoid processed fats if possible.

#3 Protein/amino acids- dairy and eggs best sources for tryptophan and methionine which convert to powerful antioxidants melatonin and glutathione.

#4 Carotenoids- alpha- beta carotene, beta cryptoxanthin, lutein zeaxanthin, astaxanthin. these are vital to human nutrition, carrots, butternut squash, pumpkin, chili pepper and cayenne pepper are the best sources.

#5 Regularity-BM at least once a day, Moist, large stools, 1 piece ideal, no maldigestion, no floating stools indicative of maldigested fat. HOW- insoluble fiber- wheat and cooked vegetables. soluble fiber-oats/ good bacteria ferment soluble fiber making short chain fatty acids that inhibit pathogens.

#6 Circadian cycles-Light, get up with the sun, and expose your entire body to it. darkness-melatonin is released upon the sensing of absolute darkness. sleep in a pitch black room, try to ensure 10 hours total darkness, wear sunglasses before bed. do not eat too late at night.

#7 Desirable physiological states(positive moods/emotions) do precisely what you like and what feels good to you, but not regardless of consequences, just from a perspective that, you own your life, and can determine precisely what you do with it and need not answer or ask of permission from anyone,achieving maximum autonomy and self government.


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The agenda against retinol needs to end...I don't necessarily advocate megadoses of retinol but there is absolutely no reason to fear retinol from natural food sources.

All the studies that conclude that Vitamin A is bad for you use synthetic Vitamin A; they don't take any other factors into account; or they don't let the study participants supplement Vitamin D, which is important. Vitamin A and Vitamin D should always be in balance in each other, and of course megadosing Vitamin A by itself will impair Vitamin D status and cause side effects.

Vitamin A from cod liver oil, which is also rich in Vitamin D, is virtually harmless.

"Too much vitamin A in retinoid form can be harmful or fatal, resulting in what is known as hypervitaminosis A. The body converts the dimerized form, carotene, into vitamin A as it is needed, therefore high levels of carotene are not toxic compared to the ester (animal) forms. The livers of certain animals, especially those adapted to polar environments, often contain amounts of vitamin A that would be toxic to humans. Thus, vitamin A toxicity is typically reported in Arctic explorers and people taking large doses of synthetic vitamin A. The first documented death due to vitamin A poisoning was Xavier Mertz, a Swiss scientist who died in January 1913 on an Antarctic expedition that had lost its food supplies and fell to eating its sled dogs. Mertz consumed lethal amounts of vitamin A by eating the dogs' livers.[3]

If eaten in one meal, 30 to 90 grams of polar bear liver is enough to kill a human being, or to make even sled dogs very ill. [4]

Excess vitamin A has also been suspected to be a contributor to osteoporosis. This seems to happen at much lower doses than those required to induce acute intoxication. Only preformed vitamin A can cause these problems, because the conversion of carotenoids into vitamin A is downregulated when physiological requirements are met. An excessive uptake of carotenoids can, however, cause carotenosis.

The carotenoid beta carotene was interestingly associated with an increase in lung cancer when it was studied in a lung cancer prevention trial in male smokers. In non-smokers, the opposite effect has been noted.

Excess preformed vitamin A during early pregnancy has also been associated with a significant increase in birth defects.[5] These defects may be severe, even life-threatening. Even twice the daily recommended amount can cause severe birth defects.[6] The FDA currently recommends that pregnant women get their Vitamin A from foods containing beta carotene and that they should ensure that they consume no more than 5,000 IU of preformed Vitamin A (if any) per day. Although Vitamin A is necessary for fetal development, most women carry stores of Vitamin A in their fat cells, so oversupplementation should be strictly avoided.

A review of all randomized controlled trials in the scientific literature by the Cochrane Collaboration published in JAMA in 2007 found that vitamin A significantly increased mortality by 16% (Relative Risk 1.16, 95% confidence interval"

I wouldn't say completely harmless


Current Regimen:

Morning:

Water

50 mg zinc chelate

Rainbow Multi Vitamin

Emergen-C 1000 mg vitamin c + b vitamins and minerals + a few more more later on

Night:

Water

acv

Eating:

Wheat free, lower carb, lower protein meals.

avoiding: dairy, inflammatory foods.

eating fruits alone or with other fast digesting things

low sugar

Status:

Went on minocycline + benzoly peroxide for less then one month to clear up alot of existing spots. left with a few red bumps and and red marks fading fast. Blackheads along nose, anyone know how to make the nose less oily? seems to be the only place on my face I get bothered by the oil still


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i would also like to just give a bit of support to this idea as i have heard from a couple of threads that people that have been through a course of accutane still having lingering side effects had experianced relief from taking vitamin d, so when mr dingo jellybean claims vitamin a depletes vitamin d, he may not be so crazy after all. Also the fact that people that have taken accutane claim that the side effects either come back or get worse when they eat anything with vitamin a in it after their course, also suggesting they are further depleting their vitamin d.

Perhaps this is also why there is concerns when breaking bones on acutane as you may be severely deficient in vitamin d which would impair calcium metabolism which would affect the healing of bones.

so it at least make some sense.


#1.critical nutritional issues- b12(three forms exist), Calcium(yogurt, cheese or calcium phosphate supps) and vitamin d(sun or supps not to exceed 1000 iu). heme iron-most absorbable from meat only, clams are high. these are the most difficult vitamins to get and absorb. All others or about the same in difficulty in absorption. MAgnesium in our food supply is generally low as well, try natural calm supps.

#2 Fats- monounsaturated should dominate(olives), followed by polyunsaturated plant sources(nuts) but not if you have acne. the health benefits of fish oil and fish are controversial and i dont consume them due to mercury contamination and immune supression avoid processed fats if possible.

#3 Protein/amino acids- dairy and eggs best sources for tryptophan and methionine which convert to powerful antioxidants melatonin and glutathione.

#4 Carotenoids- alpha- beta carotene, beta cryptoxanthin, lutein zeaxanthin, astaxanthin. these are vital to human nutrition, carrots, butternut squash, pumpkin, chili pepper and cayenne pepper are the best sources.

#5 Regularity-BM at least once a day, Moist, large stools, 1 piece ideal, no maldigestion, no floating stools indicative of maldigested fat. HOW- insoluble fiber- wheat and cooked vegetables. soluble fiber-oats/ good bacteria ferment soluble fiber making short chain fatty acids that inhibit pathogens.

#6 Circadian cycles-Light, get up with the sun, and expose your entire body to it. darkness-melatonin is released upon the sensing of absolute darkness. sleep in a pitch black room, try to ensure 10 hours total darkness, wear sunglasses before bed. do not eat too late at night.

#7 Desirable physiological states(positive moods/emotions) do precisely what you like and what feels good to you, but not regardless of consequences, just from a perspective that, you own your life, and can determine precisely what you do with it and need not answer or ask of permission from anyone,achieving maximum autonomy and self government.


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ok i this was all i found so far

taking vitamin a alone counteracts vitamin d's ability to interact with calcium, causing lower calcium levels, so far it seems that you want to take vitamin d with vitamin a and even with calcium as well, perhaps thats why milk is fortified with a&d its a nice combo, and unfortunalty i dont drink milk because it breaks me out. so perhaps it is quite reasonable that the toxic effects of vitamin a are more realized when taken alone, and less intense when combined with vitamin d.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11585356?dopt=Abstract


#1.critical nutritional issues- b12(three forms exist), Calcium(yogurt, cheese or calcium phosphate supps) and vitamin d(sun or supps not to exceed 1000 iu). heme iron-most absorbable from meat only, clams are high. these are the most difficult vitamins to get and absorb. All others or about the same in difficulty in absorption. MAgnesium in our food supply is generally low as well, try natural calm supps.

#2 Fats- monounsaturated should dominate(olives), followed by polyunsaturated plant sources(nuts) but not if you have acne. the health benefits of fish oil and fish are controversial and i dont consume them due to mercury contamination and immune supression avoid processed fats if possible.

#3 Protein/amino acids- dairy and eggs best sources for tryptophan and methionine which convert to powerful antioxidants melatonin and glutathione.

#4 Carotenoids- alpha- beta carotene, beta cryptoxanthin, lutein zeaxanthin, astaxanthin. these are vital to human nutrition, carrots, butternut squash, pumpkin, chili pepper and cayenne pepper are the best sources.

#5 Regularity-BM at least once a day, Moist, large stools, 1 piece ideal, no maldigestion, no floating stools indicative of maldigested fat. HOW- insoluble fiber- wheat and cooked vegetables. soluble fiber-oats/ good bacteria ferment soluble fiber making short chain fatty acids that inhibit pathogens.

#6 Circadian cycles-Light, get up with the sun, and expose your entire body to it. darkness-melatonin is released upon the sensing of absolute darkness. sleep in a pitch black room, try to ensure 10 hours total darkness, wear sunglasses before bed. do not eat too late at night.

#7 Desirable physiological states(positive moods/emotions) do precisely what you like and what feels good to you, but not regardless of consequences, just from a perspective that, you own your life, and can determine precisely what you do with it and need not answer or ask of permission from anyone,achieving maximum autonomy and self government.


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I take cod liver oil but does

5ug is far too little. I don't think that's a good enough cod liver oil if it contains that little...per teaspoon. 1mg of vitamin D is 40,000 IU. So 200IU (5ug) per teaspoon isn't that much. Most brands will contain 475IU per teaspoon or 1425IU per tablespoon. 2500mg of vitamin D is A LOT. That's 10 million IU!!! I think you mean 2500 IU, not mg. Your body can tolerate 50,000 IU of real vitamin D (D3) for months with ill effects. But I suggest a lower dose or keeping a decent supply of vitamin A (around 250,000 IU) if you are taking such doses of vitamin D.

Yeh sorry i meant IU for the vitamin d and not mg. So would be fine to take the vitamin d supplement that contains 2500 IU as well as taking the cod liver oil then?


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not exaggerating.... it almost destroyed my liver. much like accutane can if you arent monitored correctly.

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I couldn't pass by this topic without posting, as I believe taking mega doses of vitamin A is a serious issue and dangerous. It's never a good idea to supplement with Vitamin A. However, it's perfectly safe to get it from plant foods in the form of beta carotene, as your body will convert what it needs into vitamin A.

A really quick and easy way to get lots of beta-carotene in your diet is with green smoothies. If you're considering supplementing with vitamin a, please give the green smoothies a chance first. You can read about them by clicking on the link in my signature.

Below is an excerpt taken from an article at the following website: http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:Js6af...;cd=2&gl=us

Vitamin A problems

A recent study indicates that vitamin A intake dramatically weakens bones. A recent meta analysis of 20 studies indicated that vitamin A (retinol) intake—whether from diet (cod liver oil and animal livers) or from supplements—was negatively associated with bone density. As more vitamin A was consumed, hip fractures went up accordingly.
The conclusion was that vitamin A supplements should not be used in any dose. Your body can make all the vitamin A it needs from the natural carotenoids found in fruits and vegetables.
1

1. Crandall C. Vitamin A intake and osteoporosis: a clinical review. J Women’s Health 2004: Oct.13(8):939-53.


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* Diet: Whole foods, mostly plant-based diet - lots of green vegetables, beans/legumes, nuts/seeds, fruit and occasional whole grains. If you suffer with acne, please see the diet tip section here.

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There is definitely nothing bad about retinol. But I think the implications of megadosing could be disatrous if everyone jumps on this bandwagon.

Dingo, can you show me the study where vitamin a toxicity is prevented by vitamin D?

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/115/7/929

Yeh sorry i meant IU for the vitamin d and not mg. So would be fine to take the vitamin d supplement that contains 2500 IU as well as taking the cod liver oil then?

Yeah, you would do more good than harm (if any). 10,000 IU is safe per day...that's how much we make anyways when we're in the sun for a couple of minutes (most of us anyways).


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the reason why they created accutane was because it was considered a safer alternative to high dose vitamin a, with less side effects. whether this is true i dont know but thats what ive read.

No, Accutane (Isotretinoin) was originally developed as a chemotherapy drug.

During the chemotherapy trials doctors noticed patients' acne clearing.

And because they didn't make enough money with it as a cancer drug, they said what the fuck! We should sell this shit as an acne drug!

It's fucking genius! God bless them all!


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